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On March 04 2013 11:21 Ketara wrote:
Athenes, blue buff and blue elixir is 50% CDR.
It's interesting to me that you're saying that the active on DFG doesn't synergize well with Lux because the range is too short, but Liandry's is good against champions that like to dive you.
According to the wiki, the active on DFG only "costs" 168g, while the passives on Liandry's cost over 1000. You're buying Liandry's for the passives much more than you are DFG.
Using that cost is literally comparing DFG to a giant stack of amplifying tomes. Don't fool yourself into thinking DFG is cost effective without the activation.
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On March 05 2013 01:09 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 11:21 Ketara wrote:
Athenes, blue buff and blue elixir is 50% CDR.
It's interesting to me that you're saying that the active on DFG doesn't synergize well with Lux because the range is too short, but Liandry's is good against champions that like to dive you.
According to the wiki, the active on DFG only "costs" 168g, while the passives on Liandry's cost over 1000. You're buying Liandry's for the passives much more than you are DFG. Using that cost is literally comparing DFG to a giant stack of amplifying tomes. Don't fool yourself into thinking DFG is cost effective without the activation.
DFG is a good lategame statstick if you dont need the defense.
It as as much or more ap on it then any item that isn't deathcap or a stacked AA.
As a 6th item to just finish out your build, regardless of its cost efficiency, or how useless the active is(usually used to do a bit more damage to a tank thats gotten too close), its a good slot efficient item for AP and cdr.
If you need defense usually Hourglass is a better choice though.
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On March 04 2013 11:21 Ketara wrote:
Athenes, blue buff and blue elixir is 50% CDR.
It's interesting to me that you're saying that the active on DFG doesn't synergize well with Lux because the range is too short, but Liandry's is good against champions that like to dive you.
According to the wiki, the active on DFG only "costs" 168g, while the passives on Liandry's cost over 1000. You're buying Liandry's for the passives much more than you are DFG.
Lux isn't a single target damaging champion. She's used to hurt the entire team as lux's whole skill-base is doing AoE damage. After Liandry's change, you can utilize Liandry's to it's ENTIRE potential rather than using DFG on 1 diving champion when in most likeliness there will be at least two (jungler, toplane). Liandry's also gives you HP, when no other HP item is really good on Lux.
Liandry's Passive is good against every situation where they are stacking HP (Which all diving champions will do) and giving Lux HP is only half the factor in why it's a good item.
HP helps you survive, letting you get that extra shield off/extra damage off, rather than hoping you can do burst down 1 single target.
But the MP from it and your boots + void staff can deter them from stacking MR and if they do, you can do a lot more damage from it. And it builds from a very good early game item (haunting guise).
Lux's main strengths are her range to poke. If you buy DFG, it encourages you to be close to the action, or else it won't be as good as Liandrys, and there will be instances where you go aggressive to proc DFG, and you get cc'ed and caught and destroyed.
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Lets do some simple math and see how much damage that Liandry passive is giving you in comparison to DFG's CDR.
We'll assume, for the sake of making math easy on me, that Liandry's 15 mpen is adding about as much damage as the 91 extra AP DFG is giving you. It's not, 91 AP is worth more than 15 mpen, but we can assume this.
We'll also assume that the DFG active is causing about 300 points of damage, to counterbalance the 300 HP that Liandry's gives you. It's not, it's causing more damage than that, but we can still assume this.
Assuming that you get 2 points in CDR and 2 points in Butcher, the DFG active is giving you 8% CDR. So in reality it's increasing your overall damage by 8%.
So, how much damage would Liandry's have to be doing to equal an 8% increase?
You said you had 750 AP with your final build. This means that your laser for example is doing 1083.75 damage to each target. An extra 8% of that would be 86.7 damage.
In order for the Liandry's passive to be doing 86.7 damage, the target would have to have about 1450 HP after being hit by the laser. There's probably some other stuff hitting them too, so we can say they probably have to have at least 2500 HP for the Liandry's proc to be equivalent. Probably more like 3000.
There's probably only one or two people on the enemy team with 3000 or more HP. It seems fairly clear to me that, in a drawn out poking engagement, the 8% CDR is giving you an equivalent or greater damage increase than the Liandry's passive on most targets. Especially since your primary targets will be the carries, and they typically will not have over 2500 HP.
Not to mention this 8% CDR and 91 extra AP is giving you a stronger shield, 8% more shields, 8% more snares, 8% more slows, etc.
And I know you will have a counterargument about how people are often slowed by other sources and doubling Liandry's damage, while I could argue that Lux's primary role in an engagement is not to poke as much as it is to catch and one shot the enemy carry, which Liandry's does not in any way help you with since the passive cannot kill people.
The reality is that they're both decent choices for a final item for Lux. Really there is no perfect sixth item for Lux. What she wants is a second Deathcap, or an item with an active that gives her something like 30% more AP for a 4-6 second window. That item doesn't exist.
So we're left with three less than satisfactory choices for a sixth item. DFG, Liandry's, Lich Bane. Lich Bane is best for pushing down towers, Liandry's is best for poking, DFG is best for burst. Personally, I think DFG is the all around strongest, because it gives you something the others don't by removing your need for blue buff and letting you give it to another team member.
But each has its place, and none of them are bad choices for a final item. That's my point.
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On March 05 2013 10:27 Ketara wrote:
Lets do some simple math and see how much damage that Liandry passive is giving you in comparison to DFG's CDR.
We'll assume, for the sake of making math easy on me, that Liandry's 15 mpen is adding about as much damage as the 91 extra AP DFG is giving you. It's not, 91 AP is worth more than 15 mpen, but we can assume this.
We'll also assume that the DFG active is causing about 300 points of damage, to counterbalance the 300 HP that Liandry's gives you. It's not, it's causing more damage than that, but we can still assume this.
Assuming that you get 2 points in CDR and 2 points in Butcher, the DFG active is giving you 8% CDR. So in reality it's increasing your overall damage by 8%.
So, how much damage would Liandry's have to be doing to equal an 8% increase?
You said you had 750 AP with your final build. This means that your laser for example is doing 1083.75 damage to each target. An extra 8% of that would be 86.7 damage.
In order for the Liandry's passive to be doing 86.7 damage, the target would have to have about 1450 HP after being hit by the laser. There's probably some other stuff hitting them too, so we can say they probably have to have at least 2500 HP for the Liandry's proc to be equivalent. Probably more like 3000.
There's probably only one or two people on the enemy team with 3000 or more HP. It seems fairly clear to me that, in a drawn out poking engagement, the 8% CDR is giving you an equivalent or greater damage increase than the Liandry's passive on most targets. Especially since your primary targets will be the carries, and they typically will not have over 2500 HP.
Not to mention this 8% CDR and 91 extra AP is giving you a stronger shield, 8% more shields, 8% more snares, 8% more slows, etc.
And I know you will have a counterargument about how people are often slowed by other sources and doubling Liandry's damage, while I could argue that Lux's primary role in an engagement is not to poke as much as it is to catch and one shot the enemy carry, which Liandry's does not in any way help you with since the passive cannot kill people.
The reality is that they're both decent choices for a final item for Lux. Really there is no perfect sixth item for Lux. What she wants is a second Deathcap, or an item with an active that gives her something like 30% more AP for a 4-6 second window. That item doesn't exist.
So we're left with three less than satisfactory choices for a sixth item. DFG, Liandry's, Lich Bane. Lich Bane is best for pushing down towers, Liandry's is best for poking, DFG is best for burst. Personally, I think DFG is the all around strongest, because it gives you something the others don't by removing your need for blue buff and letting you give it to another team member.
But each has its place, and none of them are bad choices for a final item. That's my point.
My head hurts, but why would you assume two points into butcher? This is also assuming you get 0 blue buffs.
Why would you assume dealing 300 more damage is equivalent to 300 HP? It's not...
HP is about sustain, it's about staying alive and using mores spells/doing more dmg and not dying.
By your token, every single character should just stack damage as you think it's equivalent to HP. Completely ludicrous, there is a reason why ADC's opt to buy Warmogs instead of another Blood thirster.
Your also forgetting that MP is calculated after void staff which makes it much better. And in the latest meta, I've had games where everyone is at least 2,500 upwards to 4,500 with Jarvan/Xin/Hec leading the charge and even ADC's opting to get warmogs etc. I argue your primary targets should not be the carries in a late-game situation.
If you can land your skill shots at the carries, then fine go for them. That's completely okay, but in no situation should you risk your positioning in order to kill them. Let your bruisers do their job and assist them with shields if you can. You should be focused on the people jumping you and your ad carry. You should be with your ad carry and landing shields/snares/slows to get them down asap.
If you think her primary role is to down the carries than DFG does nothing to help you in that, except the extra AP and the SOMETIMES extra cdr since you'd be risking yourself Out Of Position if you go in for the proc.
If you wanted AP, you can just go for the Archangel staff which gives you more of it and a really handy shield and fit in a tear earlier in the game.
You're trying to make a point that DFG is better late game choice than Liandrys "overall" or "generally" which is just untrue. They might have their niches in certain games where one MIGHT be better than the other, but overall, Liandrys is pretty much core on lux. You even say yourself that Liandrys is best for poking and that is Lux's Greatest Skill and utility and that's why Liandry's complements her role much better than DFG.
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I think I'm done with this argument, since you are not reading my posts and clearly do not care what I have to say.
Liandry's is a fine 6th item on Lux. It's not what I've been building. I prefer that the team have more CDR over the extra poke damage Liandry's might be doing. I also prefer having a Fiendish Codex to a Haunting Guise, again so that the team can have more CDR.
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Belgium9947 Posts
On March 05 2013 11:07 Ketara wrote:
I think I'm done with this argument, since you are not reading my posts and clearly do not care what I have to say.
Liandry's is a fine 6th item on Lux. It's not what I've been building. I prefer that the team have more CDR over the extra poke damage Liandry's might be doing. I also prefer having a Fiendish Codex to a Haunting Guise, again so that the team can have more CDR.
Hmm.. from what I've been reading it seems more like you dont read what he has to say imo. He makes a solid argument that undermines yours pretty well, and you choose not to respond to it..
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I think the thing about taking blue buff + liandry's that I like is that you dont need to buy a blue buff, you can get a haunting guise if things are going badly, and you can burst the enemy AD almost as well... Whilst doing a significant amount more sustained damage whilst you wait for the opportunity to hit the enemy AD. Chances are your binds, and maybe some of your E's are hitting the divers, and the liandry's damage will add up against them. Having blue buff allows you to draw fights out a lot longer than you otherwise would because mana isn't an issue (if your team is poking a lot, but not scoring kills, you may run oom with Athene's)
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On March 05 2013 13:21 RaGe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 11:07 Ketara wrote:
I think I'm done with this argument, since you are not reading my posts and clearly do not care what I have to say.
Liandry's is a fine 6th item on Lux. It's not what I've been building. I prefer that the team have more CDR over the extra poke damage Liandry's might be doing. I also prefer having a Fiendish Codex to a Haunting Guise, again so that the team can have more CDR. Hmm.. from what I've been reading it seems more like you dont read what he has to say imo. He makes a solid argument that undermines yours pretty well, and you choose not to respond to it..
The entire point of my argument, which is being ignored, is that the purpose of buying a DFG is so that you can let somebody else on the team get blue buff.
If you want to talk about how Liandry's is providing you more survivability and more damage when poking in a siege, lets talk about how much of an improvement is to have blue buff on your jungle Olaf.
If you think Lux at level 18 with an Athenes has mana regen problems, how about your jungle Olaf in the same situation? What items does he have? You're at 6 items, Olaf probably has a Warmogs and a Locket and a Frozen Mallet, and likely an Aegis because your support was too poor to buy one.
He's got no sustain items at all and only 10% CDR on his items. If you're in a siege he can't be throwing axes to poke because he doesn't have the mana regen to do it. If he has blue buff he can pretty much spam axes on cooldown until the engage happens. If you want to talk about DFG vs Liandry's math and include blue buff into the equation, lets factor that in too. What's doing more poke damage, the Liandry passive or Olaf axes on a 5 second cooldown in addition to you having 90 more AP?
And what's giving you more survivability? 300 HP on Liandry's or Olaf killing the person killing you 20% faster since he can spam Reckless Swing that much more?
And all of the above comes with the impossible assumption that blue buff has a 100% uptime. It doesn't.
League of Legends is a team game. Blue buff does not have to go to the AP carry in every situation all of the time. Literally what is being argued here is that when you already have 32-34% CDR and a 2200 gold sustain item, you would prefer to take the blue buff for 6-8% extra CDR and a ton of unused mana regen over giving it to a teammate that can make use of the entire 20% CDR and all of the regen.
It's stupid, it's selfish, it's not what's best for the team, and that's the viewpoint that is being ignored.
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@Ketara:
You can't really convert CDR into damage like that. CDR can be completely wasted if you win a fight by oneshotting their ADC in a combo, and it can be close to invaluable if it lets you get off that second snare/shield/ult to totally turn a fight around.
While the tradeoff might be damage for survivability, there is no way you can compare 300 health to 300 damage like that, it just doesn't work that way.
It's also estimate how much damage you will get out of Liandry's, because it differs so much from fight to fight.
It's pretty rare to reach 6 full items in a game, so you don't get that much time to test the builds, but I prefer Liandry's just because of how strong Haunting Guise is as a standalone item. The extra health, ap and Liandry's passive is just a little more slot efficiency really, some icing on the cake.
Haunting Guise can be a decent pickup if you have Dcap and Grail and happen to back with just enough money to get it, but finishing Liandry's before you're on 6 items is a bad decision imo.
If you have more than one AP champion on your team, and you often find yourself in a scenarios where you're both trying to burst the same target, it could be a good idea for atleast one of you to build DFG for the damage amplification.
Edit: There is also Archangel Staff, which is a really good damage item if you're just looking at a 6 item build, but having chalice + tear is a really awkward buildup. Getting AA as a last item without stacking tear takes away a lot of the AP, and you will most likely never get Seraph's Embrace that way either.
I never liked Lich Bane on Lux and because of that I don't have that much experience with it, so I discuss it.
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On March 05 2013 15:14 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 13:21 RaGe wrote:On March 05 2013 11:07 Ketara wrote:
I think I'm done with this argument, since you are not reading my posts and clearly do not care what I have to say.
Liandry's is a fine 6th item on Lux. It's not what I've been building. I prefer that the team have more CDR over the extra poke damage Liandry's might be doing. I also prefer having a Fiendish Codex to a Haunting Guise, again so that the team can have more CDR. Hmm.. from what I've been reading it seems more like you dont read what he has to say imo. He makes a solid argument that undermines yours pretty well, and you choose not to respond to it.. The entire point of my argument, which is being ignored, is that the purpose of buying a DFG is so that you can let somebody else on the team get blue buff. If you want to talk about how Liandry's is providing you more survivability and more damage when poking in a siege, lets talk about how much of an improvement is to have blue buff on your jungle Olaf. If you think Lux at level 18 with an Athenes has mana regen problems, how about your jungle Olaf in the same situation? What items does he have? You're at 6 items, Olaf probably has a Warmogs and a Locket and a Frozen Mallet, and likely an Aegis because your support was too poor to buy one. He's got no sustain items at all and only 10% CDR on his items. If you're in a siege he can't be throwing axes to poke because he doesn't have the mana regen to do it. If he has blue buff he can pretty much spam axes on cooldown until the engage happens. If you want to talk about DFG vs Liandry's math and include blue buff into the equation, lets factor that in too. What's doing more poke damage, the Liandry passive or Olaf axes on a 5 second cooldown in addition to you having 90 more AP? And what's giving you more survivability? 300 HP on Liandry's or Olaf killing the person killing you 20% faster since he can spam Reckless Swing that much more? And all of the above comes with the impossible assumption that blue buff has a 100% uptime. It doesn't. League of Legends is a team game. Blue buff does not have to go to the AP carry in every situation all of the time. Literally what is being argued here is that when you already have 32-34% CDR and a 2200 gold sustain item, you would prefer to take the blue buff for 6-8% extra CDR and a ton of unused mana regen over giving it to a teammate that can make use of the entire 20% CDR and all of the regen. It's stupid, it's selfish, it's not what's best for the team, and that's the viewpoint that is being ignored.
All of what you say is completely true and makes a lot of sense - but you also only consider the one scenario, your jungler being Olaf. What if you jungle was Lee Sin? The point here is, it's a common assumption that blue buff will be yours and that your team fights will be (hopefully) based around that buff timing. I don't think anyone would disagree that this is the most common way the game plays out.
But, as you've pointed out, thats an idealised situation, and rarely happens in real games. The buff may be missing for a long time (stolen) you may die shortly after getting it, or you may have someone on your team who can make so much more use from it (Olaf). What I feel you're missing is the argument seems to tend in the direction of a theoretical "this is your 6th item" and those above are arguing that, in the ideal case, Liandry's is the best. This ideal case is unrealistic for most games, as is the case with most idealised situations. Sure, it's rare that you have the buff for the entire teamfight, that its a drawn out poke fest that plays into your liandry's to deal maximise damage to tanks. But, it is also a fairly common situation to be in (It's normal for a mid to take blue etc)
Trying to argue for a theoretical best 6th item with a practical single case example that doesn't relate to the vast majority of cases is silly. Clearly by the time you reach a 6th item in any game it might be a good idea to consider exactly what you and your team needs from that item (Maybe its a morello's for the heal reduction, maybe its a GA for that next big fight...) All 3 of those items discussed (Lich/DFG/Liandry's) have their place and one will never be definitively better for every situation... But in the case explained, I think Liandry's is a better item. Do I always buy it? No. Do I even always get to the choice of a 6th item? No. I don't even build my core in the same order, or have a completely rigid build. But, that's what we're discussing, and for a fairly standard game where they're are several health stacking bruisers and you're receiving blue buff, Liandry's is good, and the benefit of an early guise can be worth while.
TL:DR Think about the situation when you buy your items
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On March 05 2013 15:14 Ketara wrote:
League of Legends is a team game. Blue buff does not have to go to the AP carry in every situation all of the time. Literally what is being argued here is that when you already have 32-34% CDR and a 2200 gold sustain item, you would prefer to take the blue buff for 6-8% extra CDR and a ton of unused mana regen over giving it to a teammate that can make use of the entire 20% CDR and all of the regen.
It's stupid, it's selfish, it's not what's best for the team, and that's the viewpoint that is being ignored.
As a jungle/mid main I think you're being excessive on that "It's stupid, it's selfish". But I guess it's difficult to argue about your blue buff allocation strategy that late into the game. It looks like you really like giving that late blue as Lux, in my opinion it's not optimal. You usually either have no blue buff or both depending on who's dominating map control. Also that extra 8% CDR is all about the laser. You don't shoot 8% more Q-W-E whenever they're off cool down as they're situational spells and we're talking about less than 1 sec cooldown on each of them.
About the viewpoint that is being ignored, how many jungler/bruiser can make use of a blue buff in a pokewar ? Olaf, Khazix and Jayce. I haven't played Olaf (he isn't played anymore anyway :c) in a while but Kha and Jayce with muramana can sustain a pokewar much better without running oom than Lux with athene as her only mana regen item. Even for mana hungry jungler like Hecarim lategame blue is not as much of an improvement as early/midgame blue.
When I don't get blue as Lux because a wannabe xj9 jungler hogs blue for the whole game I usually get tear/AA or roa instead of haunting guise. Without a second mana item, I feel like blueless Lux doesn't have enough mana. Either way I don't ever get codex/DFG anymore on Lux. I confess I tryed DFG on many champs since season 3 as I was a big fan (who wasn't) of S2-luckypick/blastingwand-get-it-on-every-ap-pre-nerf-DFG, but it's a really expensive item with that needlessly annoying buildpath so I have been much more selective on which champ I get it on.
Anyway this is so hypothetical, Ketara likes this extra codex, unlike LE Smite Kassadin I guess it defines a playstyle (giving blue buff away) so it's acceptable :3 (jk jk)
EDIT : not refreshing op, Wetty is much more articulate than I am.
TLDR - Read wetty post
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I think what you guys are arguing about comes down to how you two play Lux differently, as there are multiple different ways to play Lux, and each is better in certain games and certain teamcomps.
First off, theres supportish Lux, who is usually sitting way in the back in teamfights, around shield range from your front line. Her goal is to shield her front line on cd, and spam her skills on pretty much whoever gets in range, no matter how tanky they are. This version of Lux would benefit greatly from a Liandrys, and doesn't really rely on landing clutch skillshots, as hitting tanks that are already in the fight is pretty easy.
Secondly, theres sniper/poker/front line Lux. She sits near the front line before teamfights start, constantly trying to get a pick on a squishy target. She is constantly poking the other team before the fight starts, and builds ALOT of pure damage items so that when she does land a bind on a backline hero, she can turn it into a kill. This Lux is one where the pure AP on DFG, + the cdr to give more opportunity for catchs, would be good.
From my over 150 games of Lux I've played at diamond elo, both of these playstyles work very well. Supportish Lux does amazing when you already have a tanky team, as sitting in the back and letting them soak up the damage while you just whittle the other team down, and make your tank line invulnerable with stupidly strong shields.
However, there are games where your team really only has 1 person that could even remotely be considered a tank, and those are games where you NEED to be in the front trying to catch people. If you try and play supportish Lux in these games, your team ends up melting before you have the time to take out their frontline, so you really need to kill their main damage threats ASAP.
These roles are not set in stone, and you might start a game playing one playstyle and move to the other as the game goes on. Sniper Lux really falls off if the other team only has 1-2 people that you can full combo, and if they have 0 you need teamates that can take advantage of your binds to make it effective at all. Support Lux is always decent, but only really shines when you have a strong frontline. And even supportish Lux can catch and full combo squishies, though it isn't her first priority.
About Blue Buff : Allowing other people on your team to take it, and building to be fully effective even without it, is way better then planning that you will always have it for key fights. Being blue reliant is a weakness that can be exploited heavily by the other team, and often junglers can do amazing things with blue while youd really only use it to farm mid/throw more bindings at their mid hoping to get lucky/the other mid screwing up
Also, I've been going 21/9/0 more and more, and without blue buff mastery, it really doesn't last that long.
TLDR there's more then one very effective way to play Lux, and there's many factors each game to determine which playstyle is best.
Edit: Sniper Lux somewhat relies on snowballing/kills, or the other team building squishy, while supportish Lux can just sit back and farm and be a beast off pretty much pure farm.
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If you think Lee Sin can't use blue buff in a teamfight, you've never played Lee Sin. I used Olaf as an example, but in nearly every game when you're at 32-34% CDR, 6 items, level 18 with an Athenes, there's somebody on the team who makes better use of blue buff than you do, Lee Sin included. Most of the time even your support will give more to a teamfight with blue than you will. You ever seen a Sona or a Lulu or a Taric or a Zyra with blue? Even an Ezreal.
I totally agree that Liandry's is an acceptable option, and have said that on numerous occasions. The argument I am trying to make is that DFG is not a "bad, bad item" as was originally stated. I'm also trying to make the argument that because of the CDR, it's the most well rounded option, which is why it's the option listed in the guide.
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Kinda surprised we aren't straight up already at 40% CDR well before the 6 item mark...
Morellonomicon+Grail is a pretty nice combination that will let you give up blue buff without going OOM much earlier on. And healing debuffs are looking to be rather important to have right now >_> borkborkbork
IMO those should be two out of your three first items, along with Deathcap.
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I think the Morello + Grail build is probably strong in the mid game, but loses a lot of its efficiency late game. At 6 items the mana regen from Morello's isn't very useful, it's not the strongest damage item, and when you get your addiction to blue elixirs you're overcapping your CDR pretty significantly.
But at like level 11-16, it's probably very strong for roaming and ganking.
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Why are we discussing 6 item builds anyway? They're always completely situational.
Let's assume Grail/Dcap/Voidstaff/Sorcboots/Zhonya's are unlikely to change (though the order is pretty likely to). There really isn't a lot of wiggle room left in the build anymore. If you got a seraph because you started with a tear, that's your 6th item. If you got a morellonomicon earlier in the game to abuse the never-need-bluebuff, there's your 6th item, maybe you can sell it for a DFG when you're even more stupidly rich. If you need to poke down high-health-stacking beasts, Liandry is pretty much the only choice. If you're not the focus and you just need more raw damage at the cost of safety, you can get a lichbane. Maybe you should be getting a GA or a Warmogs because there's the threat of getting dived by an assassin and Zhonya's isn't enough to stop them. It's a goddamn 6th item. If you can't make a situational judgement about your 6th item, you don't understand your champion.
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I think we're discussing 6 items more because it's a guide thread and we're discussing theory rather than practice.
I've actually finished a DFG in maybe two games ever.
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On March 05 2013 23:53 Ketara wrote:
I think the Morello + Grail build is probably strong in the mid game, but loses a lot of its efficiency late game. At 6 items the mana regen from Morello's isn't very useful, it's not the strongest damage item, and when you get your addiction to blue elixirs you're overcapping your CDR pretty significantly.
But at like level 11-16, it's probably very strong for roaming and ganking.
At 6 items just sell Morello for whatever big AP item you want. Having Morello+Grail+Deathcap by level 16 is HUGE, you can bully their entire team out of lane with your siege play. Plus just spam those shields when they engage. Blue buffs 20% cdr is very valuable on almost any champ regardless of the mana regen it gives.
Also being able to cut down their healing in a league full of Botrk, Warmogs, BT is a nice plus.
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You could also argue that having Grail+Deathcap+Void Staff by level 16 is huge, though.
I think the Morello + Grail build could work in the right team composition. You'd want a jungler who really likes all those blue buffs, and a team comp that wants to do an elongated mid game poke war.
Saying "Just sell Morello's at 6 items" is a little bit of a simplification. You're still losing out on over 1000 gold, and missing that timing window where finishing the void staff makes you guaranteed to kill their carries with a combo. Not that it's impossible, just not as simple as it sounds.
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EPT
