On December 07 2012 02:00 Phrost wrote: So has anyone played Rengar vs top vs any of the "ad caster" champions? I've played against Pantheon and Talon and lost my lane pretty handily because their burst has just been too much for me to heal with W
I've played against Pantheon and I had a decent time. I took an armor rune page (flat armor seals and quints), opened with cloth+5, then E-W-Q then max E. I just last hit/harassed with E and used empowers on W for healing. You just need to stack armor so that you can outsustain his damage/mana, which is very doable as Rengar.
Been going what Coamei(sp?) seemed like he was going in IPL, boots/3 -> Kindlegem -> sunfire -> Spirit visage. Get a brutalizer in there somewhere and grab a black cleaver/ghostblade if youre split pushing.
R >W >E >Q E W W Q
seems solid, spam e on them on cooldown for decent harass and a hefty slow is always nice + a good snare when someone comes to gank you or something
Rengar still pretty good after the nerfs I think. Jungled him in a game, even after getting counterjungled really hard (enemy Jax, Vi, and Yi invaded and got a kill a piece because our top Riven was late as hell to the party), I still ended the game 7-1-10.
The worst part of the nerf is the stealth fade, but the heal is still really strong. I mean, few other champs can boast 10% total HP healing, it's not bad by a long shot. And with SV getting fixed/buffed, it's pretty good. W doesn't clear as fast with the damage hit, but you don't really need it to with Q (especially empowered) tearing through everything. Madred/Wriggles is really good for that.
I went Wriggles/Merc's/Phage/Kindlegem -> FMallet. Felt strong, probably would have rushed a SV sooner if they had any AP worth mentioning.
Anyone still playing Rengar? Discovered him again after watching some Best Rengar NA. That lvl 2 is unrivaled with a red pot start. Been going red pot->bruta/kindle->BT(if doing well)->warmogs->last whisperer and then what ever comes to mind. Somewhere in between i squeeze his special item. Kindle is skipped if i dont buy it early on for the cdr.
On April 21 2013 16:17 Basaest wrote: Anyone still playing Rengar? Discovered him again after watching some Best Rengar NA. That lvl 2 is unrivaled with a red pot start. Been going red pot->bruta/kindle->BT(if doing well)->warmogs->last whisperer and then what ever comes to mind. Somewhere in between i squeeze his special item. Kindle is skipped if i dont buy it early on for the cdr.
Yeah I've been trying Rengar. We had a discussion about Rengar in GD recently and someone posted a link to a high elo top Rengar player. I can't remember who that was.
I think Rengar belongs in the jungle. No mana means he can give blues. He has decent sustain with empowered W. He can power up his passive for more ganks. Has stealth. He also doesn't seem like a good dueler imo anymore.
I did some more jungle Rengar today and I tried out SotD. It's a big power spike as you sometimes just want damage for a few seconds instead of over a long time but I still felt like I didn't do enough. Ez would just get away. My team only had 1 tank: Garen so I felt like I could get away with it but Syndra kept poking me down so I decided to get banshees next. In retrospect the catalyst on banshees is most of the reason to get it so banshees as a second item is less than ideal. I should have gotten a spirit visage instead.
Then as my next item I wanted an IE but the game was finished by the time I got a pickaxe. Rengar really destroys people in the jungle because his ganks are good. I've spent quite a bit on pink wards to gain an advantage over people but I'm not sure if it was worthwhile. 125 gold is equivalent to a lot of cs and I felt like I was making myself a lot weaker, but at the same time I hate wasting time on ganks because a brush is warded and I like my enemies not knowing what's going on.
I maxed Q but it didn't help as much as max E would have in ganks. More experimentation later.
On April 21 2013 16:17 Basaest wrote: Anyone still playing Rengar? Discovered him again after watching some Best Rengar NA. That lvl 2 is unrivaled with a red pot start. Been going red pot->bruta/kindle->BT(if doing well)->warmogs->last whisperer and then what ever comes to mind. Somewhere in between i squeeze his special item. Kindle is skipped if i dont buy it early on for the cdr.
Yeah I've been trying Rengar. We had a discussion about Rengar in GD recently and someone posted a link to a high elo top Rengar player. I can't remember who that was.
I think Rengar belongs in the jungle. No mana means he can give blues. He has decent sustain with empowered W. He can power up his passive for more ganks. Has stealth. He also doesn't seem like a good dueler imo anymore.
I did some more jungle Rengar today and I tried out SotD. It's a big power spike as you sometimes just want damage for a few seconds instead of over a long time but I still felt like I didn't do enough. Ez would just get away. My team only had 1 tank: Garen so I felt like I could get away with it but Syndra kept poking me down so I decided to get banshees next. In retrospect the catalyst on banshees is most of the reason to get it so banshees as a second item is less than ideal. I should have gotten a spirit visage instead.
Then as my next item I wanted an IE but the game was finished by the time I got a pickaxe. Rengar really destroys people in the jungle because his ganks are good. I've spent quite a bit on pink wards to gain an advantage over people but I'm not sure if it was worthwhile. 125 gold is equivalent to a lot of cs and I felt like I was making myself a lot weaker, but at the same time I hate wasting time on ganks because a brush is warded and I like my enemies not knowing what's going on.
I maxed Q but it didn't help as much as max E would have in ganks. More experimentation later.
I believe the players that both of you are mentioning are one and the same (dekar and Best Rengar NA)
Yes they are .Haven't tried SotD myself, but it seems interesting. The only defensive item i feel that suits him (from experience) is warmogs. With SV you simply lack hp and you have to rely too much on your W and have to skip that fantastic Q. Rengar needs his dmg so 2 defensive items ain't too good imo. I guess IE works simply bcs of SotD, but I haven't tested that and i'm sure i'd miss the lifesteal. On the other hand if it would guarantee the quick head of the opposing adc even more, then it is definitely worth it. Isn't it worthwhile to max w in the jungle btw? Haven't played him in the jungle for a long time.
On April 22 2013 22:27 Basaest wrote: Yes they are .Haven't tried SotD myself, but it seems interesting. The only defensive item i feel that suits him (from experience) is warmogs. With SV you simply lack hp and you have to rely too much on your W and have to skip that fantastic Q. Rengar needs his dmg so 2 defensive items ain't too good imo. I guess IE works simply bcs of SotD, but I haven't tested that and i'm sure i'd miss the lifesteal. On the other hand if it would guarantee the quick head of the opposing adc even more, then it is definitely worth it. Isn't it worthwhile to max w in the jungle btw? Haven't played him in the jungle for a long time.
I dunno. 170 damage with no scaling is less clearing speed than Max Q assuming you don't need the sustain, and less ganking damage than max E assuming you use the empowered E because you want the snare. I go AD Rengar if that matters.
My jungle rengar: arm pen quints, attack speed reds, armor yellow, scaling mres blue Masteries usual 9/21 page Building: Brutalizer, kindlegem, spirit stone Then, you gotta adapt, if you can get to the squishies and assassinate them easely (i.e: the other team doesnt have good peelers or you can get around their frontline) i get: cdr boots, BT, sunfire, then from kindlegem either spirit of the ancient golem or spirit visage if needed vs AP carries, black cleaver from brutalizer, last item either a GA or Last whisper, depending if you can still one shot people. If i have to play as a tank or i get behind or i cant get to the carries: Merc treads, Phage, hexdrinker, those are for some resistances and health, then depending on the situation i get a giants belt, i can try to go for a Sunfire/Warmogs or completing my mallet (not the best choice to rush it imo), then pretty much i complete any big item i can get and the finishing build is something like: Ancient golem, Maw of Malmortius, Sunfire/Warmogs, Mallet, Mercs, Black cleaver (those are not in order). With this build you can't one shot any carry especially since its really lategame focused and you really need a lot of money from farm and assists, but you get a lot of health to still stick to people and spam spells with still 20% cdr from items, not the best build but i feel like playing with Rengar is still a razor edge situation, if you can kill someone early and get ahead, you can snowball into the first optimal build, if you fail too much during early game you can't kill anyone and if you try to go for full damage you gonna be too squishy, so you're just gonna be useless.. I feel like Rengar is still in the "Wukong Tier" in which if you go full AD you deal awesome damage but you can't stay in the fight for more than a full rotation, and if you build pure tank you're not gonna do anything too useful..
So looking at the starting items, even Riot recommends the jungle for Rengar. However, I felt freaking useless in my games before I hit level 6 (almost like WW) because his ganks are not too impressive unless the enemy laners overextend really really far.
Against certain top laners, he can hold his own though from my experience. Big advantage: you actually get some money to become relevant sooner or later. I usually run him vs. other Melee ADs with Arpen reds, AD quints, armor yellows and either CDR or MR (depending on their magic portion of damage and enemy jungler) blues. Build is standard red pot start, maxing E -> W-> Q, throwing the Bola at my enemy every time it's up. My six items (order as the game goes) look like
Mercs / Tabi Spirit Visage 1x giant belt item (Warmog's vs AP heavy enemy team, Randuin's vs AD oriented opponents) Blood Thirster Last Whisper + X where X equals a hybrid item (Hexdrinker / Maw or Cleaver) or pure offensive item (can even be Infinity Edge).
With this, I can jump on the enemy carry nuking him for roughly 1500 damage lategame. This will force him out of the fight because he will otherwise die to my autoattacks (use ferocity on Q, then ult, let it refill and enjoy an almost 2.00 attack speed with 300+ AD). Notice that this build really requires another tanky champ on your team (preferably full tank). In that sense, Rengar is almost like Nocturne. Both can be build tanky bruiser like but they are a lot more useful when they actually do something after jumping the enemy carry. Though tank Nocturne has his ult and fear to offer compared to tanky Rengar who only really has his impressive gap closer and then really needs to deal the damage.
On May 01 2013 05:03 Basaest wrote: What is the overall consensus on red pot starts now? The main reason i started playing rengar was for his awesome early, is the pot still worth it?
From my experience, it has become a gamble. Missing the 2x potions if you go pot, ward, potion or missing the ward when going pot + 3 potion is crucial. At least in solo queue, where asking the support to ward top lane before minions spawn will not really be heard.
If the enemy jungler doesn't interact, red pot makes the cool level two play possibe. But that's not what I would rely on. I think that in a few weeks, we might have another 'standard top lane opening' and we can then react to it. Until then, something more safe is probably the way to go once you reached a certain elo.
I've been playing Rengar almost exclusively and the guide in the OP is for the most part still right. SV no longer amplifies healing amplification on %health.
On April 24 2013 05:57 little fancy wrote: So looking at the starting items, even Riot recommends the jungle for Rengar. However, I felt freaking useless in my games before I hit level 6 (almost like WW) because his ganks are not too impressive unless the enemy laners overextend really really far.
Against certain top laners, he can hold his own though from my experience. Big advantage: you actually get some money to become relevant sooner or later. I usually run him vs. other Melee ADs with Arpen reds, AD quints, armor yellows and either CDR or MR (depending on their magic portion of damage and enemy jungler) blues. Build is standard red pot start, maxing E -> W-> Q, throwing the Bola at my enemy every time it's up. My six items (order as the game goes) look like
Mercs / Tabi Spirit Visage 1x giant belt item (Warmog's vs AP heavy enemy team, Randuin's vs AD oriented opponents) Blood Thirster Last Whisper + X where X equals a hybrid item (Hexdrinker / Maw or Cleaver) or pure offensive item (can even be Infinity Edge).
With this, I can jump on the enemy carry nuking him for roughly 1500 damage lategame. This will force him out of the fight because he will otherwise die to my autoattacks (use ferocity on Q, then ult, let it refill and enjoy an almost 2.00 attack speed with 300+ AD). Notice that this build really requires another tanky champ on your team (preferably full tank). In that sense, Rengar is almost like Nocturne. Both can be build tanky bruiser like but they are a lot more useful when they actually do something after jumping the enemy carry. Though tank Nocturne has his ult and fear to offer compared to tanky Rengar who only really has his impressive gap closer and then really needs to deal the damage.
I don't see bonetooth necklace anywhere in there.
Bonetooth necklace is still too efficient to not get. I still don't get the item most of the time and I think that's a big mistake on my part.
Also I think his ganks from level 3 onward are much better than WW's since he can have up to two decent slows in his kit and a short snare. The cc lets your allies have more time to attack and it's always better when two people are hitting someone than when just one person is hitting them, and it prevents them from getting under the safety of a tower. Not to mention he has incredible chasing power in brush.
You'd have a hard time finding an early ganker better than Rengar imo. Still it's often not possible to gank due to wards or other circumstances so often you want to wait till 6 to gank and even then I think Rengar's ganks are better than WW's because Rengar has stealth and at least equivalent cc.
I don't jungle a lot, but I'd disagree with Rengar being a good early ganker. He's not. If you don't have ghost, you're not a threat unless the person you are ganking is super deep. Even with an empowered bola, you still have to walk up to your target (unless you get a lane gank off top or bot, but that's not likely). Compared to any of the popular junglers (Jarvan, Xin, Zac, etc) and he's just not that much of a threat early. Better than Warwick? Perhaps, but that doesn't really mean much.
tiamat rengar, or, why rengar doesn't need a rework
i posted this in general thread but i thought i'd put it here for posterity i believe i'm now at 10 wins in 13 games with this?
9/21/0, ad/ad/armor/blues (mr or cdr work fine for blues), flash ignite in lane, flash smite in jungle max Q in bot and jungle, max E in top or mid lane machete + 5 in jungle, cloth + 5 in lane, or situationally double rejuv + 3 in lane (against certain sustained non-physical damage tops)
items you want: kindlegem x3 into ancient golem, spirit visage, locket bonetooth tiamat into hydra tabi
item order isn't super important, though i usually go machete -> bonetooth -> boots -> kindlegem -> tiamat -> fill out defense as needed
force fights early and often, rengar doesn't lose 2v2s especially if you enter the fight with 3-4 ferocity charged up already. double Q nuke or double snare or even heal baiting are all ridiculously strong. i don't gank bot often if ever - if you absolutely must gank bot, do it with stealth through lane. if you're ahead, get further ahead; if you're behind, get ahead. rengar's way less scary when you're behind. once you've picked up your tiamat, switch from assassinating squishies to splitpushing with impunity.
Q, auto, W, empowered Q, tiamat/hydra active will all become aoe, and you have the CDR to spam them all like crazy. if you're ever in a lane and a teamfight breaks out on the other side of the map, you can push to inhibitor within the span of a fight. in teamfights you want to homeguard in with ult, queue your Q as you stealth (you'll get the bonus damage but continue charging ferocity and stay stealthed), mash Q as you lane on enemy squishy, and don't forget to mash all your other buttons including tiamat and locket.
champs i've struggled against: shen but only in lane caitlyn with barrier thresh blue build ez that knows how to play blue build ez
items that are pretty underwhelming: lizard elder warmogs (which surprised me) sunfire head of kha'zix (just kidding, always pick rengar into kha'zix, getting this makes you unstoppable)
Thanks, guitar. I had a game yesterday where I was jungle rengar and disconnected for the first 4 minutes or so. Then the enemy team came into my jungle and killed me. Several times. I think I was 0-5 by 10 minutes? Anyways, I finished the game, a victory, 4-11 with 4 inhibitor kills and 4 tower kills. Ult so good runaway tool.
Guitar, your build is super fun. I don't even have to know how to play this champion. Fight break out near you? Mash buttons and wow I did something. Fight broke out that I'm not close to? Np push super duper fast by spamming buttons.
EPT
.Haven't tried SotD myself, but it seems interesting. The only defensive item i feel that suits him (from experience) is warmogs. With SV you simply lack hp and you have to rely too much on your W and have to skip that fantastic Q. Rengar needs his dmg so 2 defensive items ain't too good imo. I guess IE works simply bcs of SotD, but I haven't tested that and i'm sure i'd miss the lifesteal. On the other hand if it would guarantee the quick head of the opposing adc even more, then it is definitely worth it.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oLWfKEn.jpg)
