This is a guide for jungle Rengar, as I do not have enough experience with him in toplane to give any sensible information.
Skillorder & reasoning
Q-W-E-W-W-R (first 6 levels) -> R>W>Q>E
Passive: Unseen Predator
While in brush or stealthed, Rengar gains bonus attack range and his attacks cause him to leap at his target. This bonus lasts for ~0.5 second upon exiting brush or stealth. This will happen regardless of whether or not his target has sight of him, and has no internal cooldown.
This passive (in combination with his ult) makes rengar a great chaser and incredibly strong in skirmishes around buffs & midlane brushes. Always carry a ward with you so you can chase blinks & flashes from brush over walls without using your own flash. When ganking a lane dont be hesitant to jump a creep if that puts you in a good spot (just dont pre-charge Q in those cases).
Savagery/Empowered Savagery
Rengar's next basic attack deals bonus damage and grants him increased attack speed for 3 seconds. No cost Cooldown: 6 seconds Physical Damage: 30 / 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 (+1.0 per attack damage) Attack Speed: 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 %
Ferocity Bonus: Savagery deals additional damage equal to 150% of Rengar's attack damage, and the Attack Speed bonus is doubled. Cost: 5 Ferocity No cooldown
Rengar's primary AD nuke and his attack speed steroid. Note that it scales of AD, not bonus AD; so it keeps gaining strength from levelling up. Taken on level 1 because it greatly increases the speed for killing your first buff, maxed second because it increases both your continuous and burst damage.Very straightforward in it's use; the only things to note are you can and by all means should use it on towers and when you're full ferocity you should cast it before your ult (as it consumes the ferocity instantly while your ult restores ferocity).
Battle Roar/Empowered Battle Roar
(Active): Rengar lets out a battle roar, damaging enemies and gaining bonus armor and magic resist for 3 seconds. No cost Radius of AoE: 500 Cooldown: 15 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 seconds Magic Damage: 75 / 120 / 165 / 210 / 255 (+1.0 per ability power) Bonus Armor & Magic Resistance: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60
Ferocity Bonus: Battle Roar also heals Rengar for 15% of his maximum health. Cost: 5 Ferocity No cooldown Radius of AoE: 500
Rengar's aoe jungle clearing sustaining early game burst damage tool (there's a mouthfull for you). Maxed first because it's your only aoe and when jungling you will be using the empowered version of this to sustain your health. Gives you great early burst for ganks and survivability through resistances & health gain. The empowered version does not have to hit anything in order to heal you.
Bola Strike/Empowered Bola Strike
Rengar throws a bola at his target, slowing it for 2.5 seconds. The slow decays over the duration. No cost Range: 575 Cooldown: 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 seconds Physical Damage: 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 (+0.7 per bonus attack damage) Slow: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 %
Ferocity Bonus: Bola Strike initially roots his target for 1 second. The slow is applied in full after the 1 second, and decays over the remaining 1.5 seconds. Cost: 5 Ferocity No cooldown Range: 575
Rengar's single target CC. Though seemingly lackluster actually incredibly powerfull. When both the basic & empowered version are used in succesion it provides 5 seconds of crowd control on a single target. Great for ganking early, catching out people mid/lategame and good for peeling for your carries.
Thrill of the Hunt
Rengar activates his predatory instincts, stealthing himself and revealing all enemy Champions in a large radius around him. He gains movement speed and generates 1 Ferocity per 0.75s while stealthed. Lasts 7 seconds or until he uses an ability. Cooldown: 120 / 85 / 50 seconds Vision Radius: 2000 / 3000 / 4000 Movement Speed Bonus: 10 / 15 / 20 %
Rengar's Ultimate. During the laning phase you should always look to make something happen when your ultimate is up. The best way to abuse this ultimate is by just walking with the creeps into lane, press R and go kill someone. This allows you to circumvent all wards except in-lane vision wards; something you will only very rarely encounter (I've seen it once in over 50 ranked rengar jungle games). Post laning phase you use it to initiate on split targets (if the situation occurs, and you confirm this by ulting and getting vision), for vision (just like TF ult; except a lower radius but also a much lower cooldown), for repositioning/escaping during a teamfight and to cleanup. When you're behind and the opponents deny ward vision with oracles be liberal with using your ultimate to create a 4k radius "safe zone" so wards can get up/ambushes can be spotted.
Masteries
9/21/0 Because Rengar has mixed damage as well as a build in attack speed modifier you want to take +3ad, +1 ap/minion damage (really don't know about this point), 4% cdr & 10%magic pen in offense. In the defense tree make sure to take movespeed, cdr, max health, reduced damage taken from minions/everything, damage returned & extra gold on smite.
Runes
Red: AD or Arp (not going to go into this, the differences have been discussed to death and are easily found on these forums. Just note that Rengar gets some extra Arp from his necklace.). Yellow: Armor Blue: Mr or Mr/level Quints: Movespeed (movespeed quints always seem to be up for debate; I'm a strong believer in just smacking them on each and every melee jungler)
Items
There are multiple possibilities for building Rengar, from pure AD to pure AP. Going AP relies heavily on you getting ahead early to do anything and then you're still about as usefull as AP Tristana. Going pure AD gives you huge sustained damage but not being able to take damage while on the frontline doesn't yield as much succes as one might think. So we come to building tanky while weaving in some damage where possible. Your opening build should be boots & 3 health potions. The core build for rengar when in any kind of "normal" game is Merc Threads, Randuins Omen, Bonetooth Necklace, Spirit Visage. Merc threads are just the best boots for frontline champions against balanced team comps, Spirit visage boosts your W twice (more health -> more healing & base increased healing) while also boosting your damage output through cdr and giving some much needed MR. Randuins Omen is the best anti-Ad item for non mana users hands down. It's passive & active are good on any champion, but the active really shines on champions that can get into the thick of the fight. Bonetooth necklace is just really good value, when reasonably stacked & you're level 18 it's worth well over 2k gold (movespeed, armor penetration, leap range AND and bf sword worth of damage for 800 gold? yes please)
The buildup of these items depends on how the game goes, but usually goes alone the lines of HoG->Necklace->Kindlegem->mercs->Randuin->Spirit
Complete your build depending on the game.
A well timed oracle on Rengar can win you the game, as does proper warding. Don't be afraid to spend a bit of gold on these things.
An item of note for rengar is Bloodthirster. In a game where you aren't doing exceptionally well throwing out 3k gold early as a jungler for no direct survivability is just like jumping off a plane with no parachute; very exhillerating the first few moments till you hit something that hits back and you smash into little pieces. However when you get fed early your burst skyrockets with bt; since you have a 6.7 ad ratio if you combo properly with ult (fero Q, ult, fero Q, Q, E) It's a really nice item to get after your core regardless -if- you can survive long enough without additional defensive items.
Ferocity Use
Completely overlooking all things like basic map awareness, item choices, committing to bad fights etc. there's one aspect of Rengar you need to control in order to make him shine; What ability to use your ferocity on. When clearing camps it's simple, just press W for faster clearing & sustain. When you get to actually fight something else then creeps it gets a bit trickier though. Firstly, when you gank, always take note of your current ferocity before you go in so you know beforehand when you use your empowered ability. Don't gank before you have 2 ferocity (and are level 3 for that matter, level 2 ganks are not Rengars thing unless you sacrifice a lot of early clearing speed by skipping Roar till level 3) so a full rotation puts you on maximum ferocity. Your empowered Bola Strike should be used when your allies have enough damage and just need time; often in 2v1 or 3v2 situations. Because you level E last it -does- cut into your damage output & survivability and therefor should be used only in situations where you have the upper hand or a clutch peel is needed. Your empowered Roar should be used early for burst (because you max it first) and later in the game when you're being focussed. Your empowered Savagery should be used when you can do damage relatively unhindered; the single target damage quickly starts to outscale your Roar.
Interesting, your preferred jungle build for him looks a lot like mine, although I generally pick up a lantern at some point, and leave off finishing either Visage or Randuin's until after I have a bit more damage.
Great guide on explaining how he works, and I never tried a tanky, jungle Rengar. I honestly love his kit and grabbed him on release. I think it might be worth mentioning picking up a phage for a fmallet. He gets a ton of armor and mr from his roar so having more health does alot for him, plus the slow. I mostly play him top and have been having a ton of success with him up there. In jungle, and in lane its always better to max your roar over your Q. The 60 armor at level 9 is just huge. He duels like a badass and has great sustain.
On September 17 2012 23:56 MeteorRise wrote: Great guide on explaining how he works, and I never tried a tanky, jungle Rengar. I honestly love his kit and grabbed him on release. I think it might be worth mentioning picking up a phage for a fmallet. He gets a ton of armor and mr from his roar so having more health does alot for him, plus the slow. I mostly play him top and have been having a ton of success with him up there. In jungle, and in lane its always better to max your roar over your Q. The 60 armor at level 9 is just huge. He duels like a badass and has great sustain.
You have reasonable sticking power with red buff, his passive and bolas, and the build in the OP lets you activate Randuin's if you need some emergency extra slow to keep someone in range. Frozen Mallet is nice, but not absolutely necessary.
Protip for ganking with Rengar: If you're going to use your ult to gank build up 5 Ferocity beforehand. Hit your ult and hit Q a half-second later. You'll stealth with the Empowered Q buff and refill your Ferocity, greatly increasing your damage when you actually attack.
Also, the Empowered Q and regular Q attack speed buffs stack. Combined you get 90-150% attack speed.
On September 17 2012 23:56 MeteorRise wrote: Great guide on explaining how he works, and I never tried a tanky, jungle Rengar. I honestly love his kit and grabbed him on release. I think it might be worth mentioning picking up a phage for a fmallet. He gets a ton of armor and mr from his roar so having more health does alot for him, plus the slow. I mostly play him top and have been having a ton of success with him up there. In jungle, and in lane its always better to max your roar over your Q. The 60 armor at level 9 is just huge. He duels like a badass and has great sustain.
You have reasonable sticking power with red buff, his passive and bolas, and the build in the OP lets you activate Randuin's if you need some emergency extra slow to keep someone in range. Frozen Mallet is nice, but not absolutely necessary.
Basically what jumbled says; in my experience the extra sticking power is not noticeable enough to delay other items when jungling. I can see it working when you have an advantage toplane though.
On September 18 2012 00:29 Seuss wrote: Protip for ganking with Rengar: If you're going to use your ult to gank build up 5 Ferocity beforehand. Hit your ult and hit Q a half-second later. You'll stealth with the Empowered Q buff and refill your Ferocity, greatly increasing your damage when you actually attack.
Also, the Empowered Q and regular Q attack speed buffs stack. Combined you get 90-150% attack speed.
I touched upon this briefly in my thoughts about Q usage. And yes you can activate Q before ult; if you choose to activate Q after ult for longer buff duration you just need to be sure to activate Q before your first ferocity tick hits from your ultimate.
On September 18 2012 00:29 Seuss wrote: Protip for ganking with Rengar: If you're going to use your ult to gank build up 5 Ferocity beforehand. Hit your ult and hit Q a half-second later. You'll stealth with the Empowered Q buff and refill your Ferocity, greatly increasing your damage when you actually attack.
Also, the Empowered Q and regular Q attack speed buffs stack. Combined you get 90-150% attack speed.
I touched upon this briefly in my thoughts about Q usage. And yes you can activate Q before ult; if you choose to activate Q after ult for longer buff duration you just need to be sure to activate Q before your first ferocity tick hits from your ultimate.
The first tick comes the moment you stealth, which is approximately 0.75s after you press R (presuming you're not taking damage). That half or whole second you gain can sometimes be the difference between ganking with Empowered Q, or having it fade just before you initiate the gank/trade.
In any case, prepping Empowered Q before using Rengar's ultimate was important enough to his play that I felt it was worth mentioning (even though you'd touched on it). The difference it makes is huge.
What's your opinion on getting an early brutaliser on jungle rengar? Like after HoG, belining your necklace until after your first defensive item? Except for defences it has all the stats Rengar needs.
On September 18 2012 04:12 Solaris.playgu wrote: What's your opinion on getting an early brutaliser on jungle rengar? Like after HoG, belining your necklace until after your first defensive item? Except for defences it has all the stats Rengar needs.
I didn't really discuss the stacking of necklace, but on just 3 trophies it's almost as strong as brutalizer for 500 gold less; on 6 trophies you get 25 movespeed which is huge (about as big of a movespeed boost as you get from movespeed quints+defensive movespeed masteries). The other 2 levels are noticeable improvements as well, being able to leap further is so strong. And to top it off it scales with levels. All in all I feel necklace is better then brutalizer if you can be a part of plays, and Rengar excels at making favourable fights happen while dodging bad ones. As I favour building well rounded I don't like the idea of stacking 2 very similar offensive items; so I go for the better item.
On September 18 2012 00:29 Seuss wrote: Protip for ganking with Rengar: If you're going to use your ult to gank build up 5 Ferocity beforehand. Hit your ult and hit Q a half-second later. You'll stealth with the Empowered Q buff and refill your Ferocity, greatly increasing your damage when you actually attack.
Also, the Empowered Q and regular Q attack speed buffs stack. Combined you get 90-150% attack speed.
I touched upon this briefly in my thoughts about Q usage. And yes you can activate Q before ult; if you choose to activate Q after ult for longer buff duration you just need to be sure to activate Q before your first ferocity tick hits from your ultimate.
The first tick comes the moment you stealth, which is approximately 0.75s after you press R (presuming you're not taking damage). That half or whole second you gain can sometimes be the difference between ganking with Empowered Q, or having it fade just before you initiate the gank/trade.
In any case, prepping Empowered Q before using Rengar's ultimate was important enough to his play that I felt it was worth mentioning (even though you'd touched on it). The difference it makes is huge.
I will update OP with some more detail on this subject and other bits when i get to it. Very valid point though as even on level 6 the added burst is ~210 damage (~230 with ad red runes).
I see, when looking closer at it I realize you are right. I've always just kind of ignored the necklace unless I start getting fed early because of its' resemblance to a snowball item, but maybe it´s worth getting anyway, even if you´re behind?
I really get it depending on how my team and me are doing. If we control the map and get in on alot of kills, necklace. If its the other way around Id rather build more tanky faster (HoG, Kindle) to be able to tank abit for my carrys in a teamfight.
Also I dont get it when my laners are passive earlygame. For example a vlad top and a soraka bot. They wont help to kill anyone early on
On September 18 2012 20:35 Ferrose wrote: Is it worth trying to build attack speed on him (100% attack speed steroid on empowered Q wtf), or should I just play Warwick instead?
Because of his attack speed steroid & 2 of his skills scaling of ad, while none scale off attack speed, ad is much more cost-effective as offensive stat on rengar.
You could always build madreds when you're like 10-0 though if that's your thing.
As an aside, Rengar is absolutely brutal on TT. The hyper-efficiency of his Necklace is incredibly strong, and escaping him is close to impossible if he catches you in the jungle. He also demolishes towers and objectives. It's incredibly fun and no one TL B played last night seemed to expect Rengar to be such a problem.
After watching Diamond play him a few games and looking up his profile on Elobuff he seems to like 9/21/0 with AD reds and quints, armor yellows, and MR/lvl blues. He goes like 2xDoran's with HoG and Bonetooth Necklace. He gets Aegis and Randuin's nearly every game too and I've seen him build GA, Spirit Visage, and Phage a few times.
Apparently Darien has been playing him too, but I haven't seen so I don't know his build.
On September 20 2012 03:04 Ferrose wrote: After watching Diamond play him a few games and looking up his profile on Elobuff he seems to like 9/21/0 with AD reds and quints, armor yellows, and MR/lvl blues. He goes like 2xDoran's with HoG and Bonetooth Necklace. He gets Aegis and Randuin's nearly every game too and I've seen him build GA, Spirit Visage, and Phage a few times.
Apparently Darien has been playing him too, but I haven't seen so I don't know his build.
Aegis is really good; probably better then visage when you can rely on your team. However in solo queue I prefer to get stronger myself because of the nature of solo queue (everyone should know what I mean here ^^). If you play with people you trust to be decent, then by all means get aegis.
That being said, at the moment I'm trying necklace -> phage -> mercs -> triforce when I get fed (which seems to be every game since the patch, these buffs are just too funny). Since you don't pauze to W anymore a longer chase with spread out abilities is much more feasible, making triforce better then it was. Still situational though, but it allows you to better become the dominant factor in midgame in those games you can & have to carry (i.e. you have multiple cleanup kills)
I'm on the rocks regarding Trinity Force. It's not that his base AD is bad (it's middling) but that his mechanics heavily favor AD. For the same cost you could have BT + Necklace with gold to spare. In terms of damage potential BT alone is vastly stronger than Trinity, especially now that Q's attack speed has been fixed and W's AP ratio has been nerfed.
It's a tough case of judging whether the utility on Trinity is worth the additional cost and lower damage. Movespeed is always strong, and with 150% attack speed the slow is close to guaranteed. I don't think there's a right answer, or at least I can't tell which is correct without a lot of play.
On September 20 2012 06:43 Seuss wrote: I'm on the rocks regarding Trinity Force. It's not that his base AD is bad (it's middling) but that his mechanics heavily favor AD. For the same cost you could have BT + Necklace with gold to spare. In terms of damage potential BT alone is vastly stronger than Trinity, especially now that Q's attack speed has been fixed and W's AP ratio has been nerfed.
It's a tough case of judging whether the utility on Trinity is worth the additional cost and lower damage. Movespeed is always strong, and with 150% attack speed the slow is close to guaranteed. I don't think there's a right answer, or at least I can't tell which is correct without a lot of play.
After having played with necklace-> bt & necklace -> tf, trinity force first just feels stronger in the midgame. When going trinity I still build a bt if the game goes on that long because it helps a lot to keep your damage high when you're carrying(a guardian angel first though). But these are just thoughts after playing ~7-8 games post patch; still need more experience to be definitive (though I'm starting to see an eerie amount of rengar bans, so experimentation might slow down).
One key thing to keep in mind is that Necklace + BT/Trinity isn't a fair comparison. There's a 1000g gap between BT and Trinity, meaning you should have your Chain Vest/Kindlegem/Negatron/whatever to go along with BT when you compare the two. How well you keep BT stacked also plays a big role, as unstacked BT is not better than Trinity Force.
It's one of those things I don't think there will be a settled answer to, though the community consensus (at far as Elobuff is concerned) is to build Trinity Force (it's used twice as often as BT).
so Rengar seems really really good after this patch. Are there any thoughts on how tanky you should get before starting to get some AD? I haven't been able to really play him because of time restraints, but I'm toying with the idea of getting some DBlades/Phage/Aegis/BT, but it seems really lackluster defense wise. Should I throw a Warden's Mail or a spirit Visage in there somewhere before working on BT? I mean, it obviously depends on how the game is going, but I'd like to get a general idea before I start experimenting wildly.
So has anyone thought about getting zekes on him? I'm not able to try it out myself because my graphics card burnt out and I need to buy a new computer -.- But some theorycrafting gives that you pretty much reach cdr cap with cdr blues, Zeke's, 3-stacked necklace and Randuin's. It's also an item that is very useful to the team through the game, and Rengar benefits from all stats it gives.
What I'm looking at then is going something like: HoG, Necklace, Mercs, Aegis/Zeke's, Randuin's, Aegis/Zeke's, followed by whatever really, most likely Mallet + FoN or something. Should be a very well rounded build, offering a ton of tankiness, more than enough damage and a wealth of teamfight utility with two aura-items.
Seems like it should be good right? Only problems I can see is a lack of mr before FoN, so if their ap is getting scary you should probably throw in a negatron somewhere as per usual. Gonna start trying this out as soon as I can
On September 21 2012 03:01 Shiv. wrote: so Rengar seems really really good after this patch. Are there any thoughts on how tanky you should get before starting to get some AD? I haven't been able to really play him because of time restraints, but I'm toying with the idea of getting some DBlades/Phage/Aegis/BT, but it seems really lackluster defense wise. Should I throw a Warden's Mail or a spirit Visage in there somewhere before working on BT? I mean, it obviously depends on how the game is going, but I'd like to get a general idea before I start experimenting wildly.
You can start off with some ad if you're toplaning or having a good start in the jungle. If you use your W's spread out you have 6 seconds of high mr/ar; which is enough for small skirmishes. I've been running a bit of defenseive boots of choice -> 1 dorans -> BT -> GA on toplane rengar. If you don't use your ult to initiate in teamfights, but to get out and in again, you have to get focussed down 3 times in a row before you're actually dead giving you ample survivability.
Though always think about your team composition before you decide what route to go; oftentimes you just have to be that tanky peeling frontline and you're best off stacking 2+ defensive items before focussing on more damage then necklace.
On September 21 2012 03:01 Shiv. wrote: so Rengar seems really really good after this patch. Are there any thoughts on how tanky you should get before starting to get some AD? I haven't been able to really play him because of time restraints, but I'm toying with the idea of getting some DBlades/Phage/Aegis/BT, but it seems really lackluster defense wise. Should I throw a Warden's Mail or a spirit Visage in there somewhere before working on BT? I mean, it obviously depends on how the game is going, but I'd like to get a general idea before I start experimenting wildly.
You can start off with some ad if you're toplaning or having a good start in the jungle. If you use your W's spread out you have 6 seconds of high mr/ar; which is enough for small skirmishes. I've been running a bit of defenseive boots of choice -> 1 dorans -> BT -> GA on toplane rengar. If you don't use your ult to initiate in teamfights, but to get out and in again, you have to get focussed down 3 times in a row before you're actually dead giving you ample survivability.
Though always think about your team composition before you decide what route to go; oftentimes you just have to be that tanky peeling frontline and you're best off stacking 2+ defensive items before focussing on more damage then necklace.
Been going like, boots3 -> double dorans -> phage -> necklace(if getting a kill or not getting shit on, sometimes before phage!) -> bt -> tf -> GA.
This champ is fucking nuts. I tried him in ranked the moment I bought him and decimated things. I hadn't considered Spirit Visage, but health, CDR and the healing boost seems pretty good on him. I definitely felt like I wanted to build a bit tankier, though, since his base damage is high already, and with just a TF or BT he can wreck a squishy.
It's probably a bit impractical, but I liked Warmog's on him. With W's resists being pretty good and the heal being % of your health, I like the idea of getting at least a Giant's belt early on, though I like how this guide recommends HoG/Kindle early, might be a better version.
I think AP Rengar is a really strong counter to Malphite top lane, which is pretty weird. Does anyone have any experience with this in any matchup? I think you just open kage + blasting wand or something, though I think switching over to AD with a thirster might be good at some point. Anyway, looking for some help with build/runes/masteries, I'm thinking
9/21/0 AD/AD/armor/MR boots + 3
for both AP and AD Rengar. Anyone have any insights?
On September 23 2012 04:54 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I think AP Rengar is a really strong counter to Malphite top lane, which is pretty weird. Does anyone have any experience with this in any matchup? I think you just open kage + blasting wand or something, though I think switching over to AD with a thirster might be good at some point. Anyway, looking for some help with build/runes/masteries, I'm thinking
9/21/0 AD/AD/armor/MR boots + 3
for both AP and AD Rengar. Anyone have any insights?
I haven't played the matchup, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Maxing W alone should be enough to win trades pretty hard. Typical engage with 2+ stacks, spreading w's so you get maximum defensive uptime, disengage when malphite uses E, use brush to re-engage should win you the lane handily. The only way I see malphite winning the lane is with heavy jungle assistance, so i feel spending money on ap items first is just a waste.
ps. I know the guide needs some updating but for some random reason I think rengar will get nerfed in the near future and things that work currently (like almost anything) might not work anymore.
On September 23 2012 04:54 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I think AP Rengar is a really strong counter to Malphite top lane, which is pretty weird. Does anyone have any experience with this in any matchup? I think you just open kage + blasting wand or something, though I think switching over to AD with a thirster might be good at some point. Anyway, looking for some help with build/runes/masteries, I'm thinking
9/21/0 AD/AD/armor/MR boots + 3
for both AP and AD Rengar. Anyone have any insights?
I haven't played the matchup, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Maxing W alone should be enough to win trades pretty hard. Typical engage with 2+ stacks, spreading w's so you get maximum defensive uptime, disengage when malphite uses E, use brush to re-engage should win you the lane handily. The only way I see malphite winning the lane is with heavy jungle assistance, so i feel spending money on ap items first is just a waste.
ps. I know the guide needs some updating but for some random reason I think rengar will get nerfed in the near future and things that work currently (like almost anything) might not work anymore.
Ive actually run into this matchup a few times in the past couple of days of spamming rengar games. Be aggressive on him and force trades. Youve got way more sustain then him and will come out ahead every time. I like going qwe my first 3 levels so I can keep his shield low or down with constant e harass. Abuse bushes and pounce on him as soon as he goes for cs. You should be able to kill him at 4/5 if not early with an empowered w full burst combo if hes around half health. I like getting either a kindlegem or bruta with my first buy then the other on the second buy. Depending on who their jungler is you can even shove the lane then go take parts of their jungle or ult and hunt down their jungler. You just want to be an annoying ass whenever you can.
so i've now played quite a bit of rengar both mid (AD) and top (AD) and a bit in the jungle (AD) and i'm starting to get a grasp of his playstyle and build
i go arpen/arpen/armor/armor or arpen/arpen/mr/mr depending on the lane 9/21/0 or 21/9/0, but usually the former boots + 3, doran's blade (or 2) / bonetooth necklace, brutalizer or BF sword, mercs is your early core
in top lane i just go nuts. no one can stand up to you, you have no mana or even cooldown restrictions, you'll be runed against their damage and your damage will basically be true damage for the first few levels. i don't skill my first point until i know how the lane is going to play out. against garen i would take E so he can't run up and have his way with me. against wukong i would take Q since i know he wants to trade often. E against vladimir because vlad usually runs MS everything and he will back off at any attempt you make to get into melee range of him.
by level 3 i generally have a point in each skill although sometimes in very easy lanes i'll have QEQ instead
bonetooth in any lane that you get an early kill. actually, bonetooth is worth it even if you're slightly behind. only time i'll opt for d-blade is if i get ganked before i have 800 or so gold. you'll have bonetooth by the time you're 6, at which point you can roam for a free kill mid/top or kill your lane opponent at any time. then farm til about 1800 or so, getting either a bruta and boots pieces or a BF sword.
when you can manage it, the most optimal combo i've found is get 4 stacks of rage, leap -> Q (charges rage to full) -> empowered Q -> E immediately and spam W -> your normal Q will come up as E finishes -> ignite if necessary -> ult to give yourself another leap if they're still alive -> empowered Q.
hanging around at 4 stacks in lane is very beneficial because it allows you to: (a) E an enemy jungler to slow them, then empowered E enemy laner to ensure your escape (b) W -> empowered W to aoe a wave down and heal (c) leap from brush Q -> empowered Q for massive burst in top lane
final build is mercs, BT, last whisper, GA, triforce, bonetooth necklace i usually don't find much need for further defense outside of that. sometimes aegis instead of triforce
also of note, i've found phage before BF to generally be the wrong move. the pure damage is too important. if you need a mid-tier item, get bruta instead. phage is an item to get only after you stop instagibbing everyone and need and extra hit or so to do the job
do not get attack speed items on rengar, he's a burst champ.
How do i beat nid top? They usually start cloth 5 and whenever i go to attack from the brush she just runs away. Getting to lvl 5 she goes aggressive on me and i end up having to run around her trap so i dont take more damage. After first back with her boot + 1 or 2 doran blade i lose to her in exchange at 6 even with a w and 5 stack ready to go.
How are you guys building Rengar out of the jungle these days? I know he's supposed to be great but I just got him and I'm terrible with him.
I run 9-21-0 and have been switching between arpen, ad, and 3as/6arpen reds trying to see what works best. Yellow armor, blue magic resist per level and MS quints.
I'm going Q-W-E-W-W-R and maxing R, W, Q, E in that order.
I go mercs or tabi depending on the other team, hog, wriggles and phage -> trinity with the necklace somewhere in there. It's pretty similar to what the OP is recommending but he feels weak. Anybody have a better way to build him or some general tips?
Having played him a bit recently, when I jungle him I go boots/3 pots, 2x dorans blades, bonetooth necklace, phage into triforce, then start building tanky stuff (GA/Randuins/FoN depending on the situation).
I don't think going HoG is that great on him, since his Q makes early extra AD so good. Wriggles seems pretty unnecessary, given his W gives him plenty of sustain, and the doran's blades provide an more immediate payoff.
Are there any vods of pro players playing Rengar top post nerfs? I bought him yesterday, and have been trying to spam games with him toplane, but have only been able to get toplane in blind picks 3 times, and none of those lanes played like a normal lane. (First one was against Tryndamere, who auto attacked the lane, second was again Fizz who came to lane with 18 armor, third was against Talon + Graves because they had the soloq argument on who to jungle, and decided to duo top. )
I am hoping on making Rengar my top lane pick for S3, but cant really find any vods on him played against the normal FOTM top laners.
Thinking of going something that Dyrus did on his stream, funfire, SV, GA, just generally very tanky and empowered W:s keeping me alive until tomorrow... But we will see, Hard to practice now, with all those juicy S3 items coming.
Yeah, as you said, Dyrus plays him like that, saw it on Solomid tourney too. I think someone mentioned LilBallz (?) playing him real tanky too, while still doing good damage.
Tried tanky Top Rengar and it's feels so gimp in solo q, haha. You can definitely feel the damage difference in level 5-11 trades in lane. SV being your only source of CDR, I feel like Omen is a good buy after Sunfire. Hopefully the enemy team is AD heavy.
On November 25 2012 03:28 Gaslo wrote: Are there any vods of pro players playing Rengar top post nerfs? I bought him yesterday, and have been trying to spam games with him toplane, but have only been able to get toplane in blind picks 3 times, and none of those lanes played like a normal lane. (First one was against Tryndamere, who auto attacked the lane, second was again Fizz who came to lane with 18 armor, third was against Talon + Graves because they had the soloq argument on who to jungle, and decided to duo top. )
I am hoping on making Rengar my top lane pick for S3, but cant really find any vods on him played against the normal FOTM top laners.
Thinking of going something that Dyrus did on his stream, funfire, SV, GA, just generally very tanky and empowered W:s keeping me alive until tomorrow... But we will see, Hard to practice now, with all those juicy S3 items coming.
Voyboy's been playing a lot of Rengar both in solo queue and in tournaments. Don't really remember what he buys besides Sunfire but you can check him out.
Rengar intrigued me on release but I've held off on getting him until now and....fuck I'm bad.
Tried it the Neo way of dorans, BT, GA for a couple of games and failed hard. Tried tanky and did mildly better but failed. I do a lot of stupid things, like forget that I will leap out of the fkn bush (T.T) or use my skills in the wrong order.
Has there been any consensus on skill-up order (jungle I understand is W) and given the order, what is the initiation combo I should be using? I've been trying to ulti into team fights, jumping on the ADC and using my 5 points either on Q for damage or W for sustain but usually they either get away from me or I can't beat them 1v1 (usually with support trying to peel or entire enemy team focusing me b/c I'm an easy target). So, I ult in, hit all 3 spells in random order, barely scratch the ADC and then die horribly.
On November 25 2012 08:04 OutlaW- wrote: hes playing him right now in tsm invit atioanl ( http://clgaming.net/live/6910-tsmtournaments ) but he got fucked over early and is losing by 40 cs atm
You mean when he got mega fucked over and still tower dove Zuna(think they were playing FeaR at the time, could be wrong) with a D shield and a chain vest for a kill? That was fucking scary.
So Health Rengar is apparently the new thing. I played him to decent success in a game (not enough to carry the 1-6 botlane), but I really kind of slowed down on doing damage after a point. Should I be running offensive masteries? I did 9/21/0 and AD/Armor/MR/AD.
On December 02 2012 17:40 Sufficiency wrote: I am saddened by the fact that even almost pure health Rengar builds in IPL5 did not utilize Atma's.
I mean, I could see it, but you already get a decent amount of armor from max W, you don't really prioritize crit (though you do auto a lot), and the AD has gotten pretty nerfed over time. But yeah, I think it's a good mix. I assume most pros just think "nerfed item, never bought, trash tier", when it's still pretty good.
On December 03 2012 05:45 Requizen wrote: Aside from being fuzzy, they're really not that similar at all...
Animals jumping on squishies, they run fast, they can see potential targets through fog of war. On a concept level, they are a lot alike. When it comes to actual gameplay, laning, builds, they're almost nothing alike.
So has anyone played Rengar vs top vs any of the "ad caster" champions? I've played against Pantheon and Talon and lost my lane pretty handily because their burst has just been too much for me to heal with W
Dyrus playing rengar now, went for an early youmuu instead of black cleaver... M... after youmuu -> black cleaver = instano armor but seems a bit expensive to rush youmuu
On December 07 2012 02:00 Phrost wrote: So has anyone played Rengar vs top vs any of the "ad caster" champions? I've played against Pantheon and Talon and lost my lane pretty handily because their burst has just been too much for me to heal with W
I've played against Pantheon and I had a decent time. I took an armor rune page (flat armor seals and quints), opened with cloth+5, then E-W-Q then max E. I just last hit/harassed with E and used empowers on W for healing. You just need to stack armor so that you can outsustain his damage/mana, which is very doable as Rengar.
Been going what Coamei(sp?) seemed like he was going in IPL, boots/3 -> Kindlegem -> sunfire -> Spirit visage. Get a brutalizer in there somewhere and grab a black cleaver/ghostblade if youre split pushing.
R >W >E >Q E W W Q
seems solid, spam e on them on cooldown for decent harass and a hefty slow is always nice + a good snare when someone comes to gank you or something
Rengar still pretty good after the nerfs I think. Jungled him in a game, even after getting counterjungled really hard (enemy Jax, Vi, and Yi invaded and got a kill a piece because our top Riven was late as hell to the party), I still ended the game 7-1-10.
The worst part of the nerf is the stealth fade, but the heal is still really strong. I mean, few other champs can boast 10% total HP healing, it's not bad by a long shot. And with SV getting fixed/buffed, it's pretty good. W doesn't clear as fast with the damage hit, but you don't really need it to with Q (especially empowered) tearing through everything. Madred/Wriggles is really good for that.
I went Wriggles/Merc's/Phage/Kindlegem -> FMallet. Felt strong, probably would have rushed a SV sooner if they had any AP worth mentioning.
Anyone still playing Rengar? Discovered him again after watching some Best Rengar NA. That lvl 2 is unrivaled with a red pot start. Been going red pot->bruta/kindle->BT(if doing well)->warmogs->last whisperer and then what ever comes to mind. Somewhere in between i squeeze his special item. Kindle is skipped if i dont buy it early on for the cdr.
On April 21 2013 16:17 Basaest wrote: Anyone still playing Rengar? Discovered him again after watching some Best Rengar NA. That lvl 2 is unrivaled with a red pot start. Been going red pot->bruta/kindle->BT(if doing well)->warmogs->last whisperer and then what ever comes to mind. Somewhere in between i squeeze his special item. Kindle is skipped if i dont buy it early on for the cdr.
Yeah I've been trying Rengar. We had a discussion about Rengar in GD recently and someone posted a link to a high elo top Rengar player. I can't remember who that was.
I think Rengar belongs in the jungle. No mana means he can give blues. He has decent sustain with empowered W. He can power up his passive for more ganks. Has stealth. He also doesn't seem like a good dueler imo anymore.
I did some more jungle Rengar today and I tried out SotD. It's a big power spike as you sometimes just want damage for a few seconds instead of over a long time but I still felt like I didn't do enough. Ez would just get away. My team only had 1 tank: Garen so I felt like I could get away with it but Syndra kept poking me down so I decided to get banshees next. In retrospect the catalyst on banshees is most of the reason to get it so banshees as a second item is less than ideal. I should have gotten a spirit visage instead.
Then as my next item I wanted an IE but the game was finished by the time I got a pickaxe. Rengar really destroys people in the jungle because his ganks are good. I've spent quite a bit on pink wards to gain an advantage over people but I'm not sure if it was worthwhile. 125 gold is equivalent to a lot of cs and I felt like I was making myself a lot weaker, but at the same time I hate wasting time on ganks because a brush is warded and I like my enemies not knowing what's going on.
I maxed Q but it didn't help as much as max E would have in ganks. More experimentation later.
On April 21 2013 16:17 Basaest wrote: Anyone still playing Rengar? Discovered him again after watching some Best Rengar NA. That lvl 2 is unrivaled with a red pot start. Been going red pot->bruta/kindle->BT(if doing well)->warmogs->last whisperer and then what ever comes to mind. Somewhere in between i squeeze his special item. Kindle is skipped if i dont buy it early on for the cdr.
Yeah I've been trying Rengar. We had a discussion about Rengar in GD recently and someone posted a link to a high elo top Rengar player. I can't remember who that was.
I think Rengar belongs in the jungle. No mana means he can give blues. He has decent sustain with empowered W. He can power up his passive for more ganks. Has stealth. He also doesn't seem like a good dueler imo anymore.
I did some more jungle Rengar today and I tried out SotD. It's a big power spike as you sometimes just want damage for a few seconds instead of over a long time but I still felt like I didn't do enough. Ez would just get away. My team only had 1 tank: Garen so I felt like I could get away with it but Syndra kept poking me down so I decided to get banshees next. In retrospect the catalyst on banshees is most of the reason to get it so banshees as a second item is less than ideal. I should have gotten a spirit visage instead.
Then as my next item I wanted an IE but the game was finished by the time I got a pickaxe. Rengar really destroys people in the jungle because his ganks are good. I've spent quite a bit on pink wards to gain an advantage over people but I'm not sure if it was worthwhile. 125 gold is equivalent to a lot of cs and I felt like I was making myself a lot weaker, but at the same time I hate wasting time on ganks because a brush is warded and I like my enemies not knowing what's going on.
I maxed Q but it didn't help as much as max E would have in ganks. More experimentation later.
I believe the players that both of you are mentioning are one and the same (dekar and Best Rengar NA)
Yes they are .Haven't tried SotD myself, but it seems interesting. The only defensive item i feel that suits him (from experience) is warmogs. With SV you simply lack hp and you have to rely too much on your W and have to skip that fantastic Q. Rengar needs his dmg so 2 defensive items ain't too good imo. I guess IE works simply bcs of SotD, but I haven't tested that and i'm sure i'd miss the lifesteal. On the other hand if it would guarantee the quick head of the opposing adc even more, then it is definitely worth it. Isn't it worthwhile to max w in the jungle btw? Haven't played him in the jungle for a long time.
On April 22 2013 22:27 Basaest wrote: Yes they are .Haven't tried SotD myself, but it seems interesting. The only defensive item i feel that suits him (from experience) is warmogs. With SV you simply lack hp and you have to rely too much on your W and have to skip that fantastic Q. Rengar needs his dmg so 2 defensive items ain't too good imo. I guess IE works simply bcs of SotD, but I haven't tested that and i'm sure i'd miss the lifesteal. On the other hand if it would guarantee the quick head of the opposing adc even more, then it is definitely worth it. Isn't it worthwhile to max w in the jungle btw? Haven't played him in the jungle for a long time.
I dunno. 170 damage with no scaling is less clearing speed than Max Q assuming you don't need the sustain, and less ganking damage than max E assuming you use the empowered E because you want the snare. I go AD Rengar if that matters.
My jungle rengar: arm pen quints, attack speed reds, armor yellow, scaling mres blue Masteries usual 9/21 page Building: Brutalizer, kindlegem, spirit stone Then, you gotta adapt, if you can get to the squishies and assassinate them easely (i.e: the other team doesnt have good peelers or you can get around their frontline) i get: cdr boots, BT, sunfire, then from kindlegem either spirit of the ancient golem or spirit visage if needed vs AP carries, black cleaver from brutalizer, last item either a GA or Last whisper, depending if you can still one shot people. If i have to play as a tank or i get behind or i cant get to the carries: Merc treads, Phage, hexdrinker, those are for some resistances and health, then depending on the situation i get a giants belt, i can try to go for a Sunfire/Warmogs or completing my mallet (not the best choice to rush it imo), then pretty much i complete any big item i can get and the finishing build is something like: Ancient golem, Maw of Malmortius, Sunfire/Warmogs, Mallet, Mercs, Black cleaver (those are not in order). With this build you can't one shot any carry especially since its really lategame focused and you really need a lot of money from farm and assists, but you get a lot of health to still stick to people and spam spells with still 20% cdr from items, not the best build but i feel like playing with Rengar is still a razor edge situation, if you can kill someone early and get ahead, you can snowball into the first optimal build, if you fail too much during early game you can't kill anyone and if you try to go for full damage you gonna be too squishy, so you're just gonna be useless.. I feel like Rengar is still in the "Wukong Tier" in which if you go full AD you deal awesome damage but you can't stay in the fight for more than a full rotation, and if you build pure tank you're not gonna do anything too useful..
So looking at the starting items, even Riot recommends the jungle for Rengar. However, I felt freaking useless in my games before I hit level 6 (almost like WW) because his ganks are not too impressive unless the enemy laners overextend really really far.
Against certain top laners, he can hold his own though from my experience. Big advantage: you actually get some money to become relevant sooner or later. I usually run him vs. other Melee ADs with Arpen reds, AD quints, armor yellows and either CDR or MR (depending on their magic portion of damage and enemy jungler) blues. Build is standard red pot start, maxing E -> W-> Q, throwing the Bola at my enemy every time it's up. My six items (order as the game goes) look like
Mercs / Tabi Spirit Visage 1x giant belt item (Warmog's vs AP heavy enemy team, Randuin's vs AD oriented opponents) Blood Thirster Last Whisper + X where X equals a hybrid item (Hexdrinker / Maw or Cleaver) or pure offensive item (can even be Infinity Edge).
With this, I can jump on the enemy carry nuking him for roughly 1500 damage lategame. This will force him out of the fight because he will otherwise die to my autoattacks (use ferocity on Q, then ult, let it refill and enjoy an almost 2.00 attack speed with 300+ AD). Notice that this build really requires another tanky champ on your team (preferably full tank). In that sense, Rengar is almost like Nocturne. Both can be build tanky bruiser like but they are a lot more useful when they actually do something after jumping the enemy carry. Though tank Nocturne has his ult and fear to offer compared to tanky Rengar who only really has his impressive gap closer and then really needs to deal the damage.
On May 01 2013 05:03 Basaest wrote: What is the overall consensus on red pot starts now? The main reason i started playing rengar was for his awesome early, is the pot still worth it?
From my experience, it has become a gamble. Missing the 2x potions if you go pot, ward, potion or missing the ward when going pot + 3 potion is crucial. At least in solo queue, where asking the support to ward top lane before minions spawn will not really be heard.
If the enemy jungler doesn't interact, red pot makes the cool level two play possibe. But that's not what I would rely on. I think that in a few weeks, we might have another 'standard top lane opening' and we can then react to it. Until then, something more safe is probably the way to go once you reached a certain elo.
I've been playing Rengar almost exclusively and the guide in the OP is for the most part still right. SV no longer amplifies healing amplification on %health.
On April 24 2013 05:57 little fancy wrote: So looking at the starting items, even Riot recommends the jungle for Rengar. However, I felt freaking useless in my games before I hit level 6 (almost like WW) because his ganks are not too impressive unless the enemy laners overextend really really far.
Against certain top laners, he can hold his own though from my experience. Big advantage: you actually get some money to become relevant sooner or later. I usually run him vs. other Melee ADs with Arpen reds, AD quints, armor yellows and either CDR or MR (depending on their magic portion of damage and enemy jungler) blues. Build is standard red pot start, maxing E -> W-> Q, throwing the Bola at my enemy every time it's up. My six items (order as the game goes) look like
Mercs / Tabi Spirit Visage 1x giant belt item (Warmog's vs AP heavy enemy team, Randuin's vs AD oriented opponents) Blood Thirster Last Whisper + X where X equals a hybrid item (Hexdrinker / Maw or Cleaver) or pure offensive item (can even be Infinity Edge).
With this, I can jump on the enemy carry nuking him for roughly 1500 damage lategame. This will force him out of the fight because he will otherwise die to my autoattacks (use ferocity on Q, then ult, let it refill and enjoy an almost 2.00 attack speed with 300+ AD). Notice that this build really requires another tanky champ on your team (preferably full tank). In that sense, Rengar is almost like Nocturne. Both can be build tanky bruiser like but they are a lot more useful when they actually do something after jumping the enemy carry. Though tank Nocturne has his ult and fear to offer compared to tanky Rengar who only really has his impressive gap closer and then really needs to deal the damage.
I don't see bonetooth necklace anywhere in there.
Bonetooth necklace is still too efficient to not get. I still don't get the item most of the time and I think that's a big mistake on my part.
Also I think his ganks from level 3 onward are much better than WW's since he can have up to two decent slows in his kit and a short snare. The cc lets your allies have more time to attack and it's always better when two people are hitting someone than when just one person is hitting them, and it prevents them from getting under the safety of a tower. Not to mention he has incredible chasing power in brush.
You'd have a hard time finding an early ganker better than Rengar imo. Still it's often not possible to gank due to wards or other circumstances so often you want to wait till 6 to gank and even then I think Rengar's ganks are better than WW's because Rengar has stealth and at least equivalent cc.
I don't jungle a lot, but I'd disagree with Rengar being a good early ganker. He's not. If you don't have ghost, you're not a threat unless the person you are ganking is super deep. Even with an empowered bola, you still have to walk up to your target (unless you get a lane gank off top or bot, but that's not likely). Compared to any of the popular junglers (Jarvan, Xin, Zac, etc) and he's just not that much of a threat early. Better than Warwick? Perhaps, but that doesn't really mean much.
tiamat rengar, or, why rengar doesn't need a rework
i posted this in general thread but i thought i'd put it here for posterity i believe i'm now at 10 wins in 13 games with this?
9/21/0, ad/ad/armor/blues (mr or cdr work fine for blues), flash ignite in lane, flash smite in jungle max Q in bot and jungle, max E in top or mid lane machete + 5 in jungle, cloth + 5 in lane, or situationally double rejuv + 3 in lane (against certain sustained non-physical damage tops)
items you want: kindlegem x3 into ancient golem, spirit visage, locket bonetooth tiamat into hydra tabi
item order isn't super important, though i usually go machete -> bonetooth -> boots -> kindlegem -> tiamat -> fill out defense as needed
force fights early and often, rengar doesn't lose 2v2s especially if you enter the fight with 3-4 ferocity charged up already. double Q nuke or double snare or even heal baiting are all ridiculously strong. i don't gank bot often if ever - if you absolutely must gank bot, do it with stealth through lane. if you're ahead, get further ahead; if you're behind, get ahead. rengar's way less scary when you're behind. once you've picked up your tiamat, switch from assassinating squishies to splitpushing with impunity.
Q, auto, W, empowered Q, tiamat/hydra active will all become aoe, and you have the CDR to spam them all like crazy. if you're ever in a lane and a teamfight breaks out on the other side of the map, you can push to inhibitor within the span of a fight. in teamfights you want to homeguard in with ult, queue your Q as you stealth (you'll get the bonus damage but continue charging ferocity and stay stealthed), mash Q as you lane on enemy squishy, and don't forget to mash all your other buttons including tiamat and locket.
champs i've struggled against: shen but only in lane caitlyn with barrier thresh blue build ez that knows how to play blue build ez
items that are pretty underwhelming: lizard elder warmogs (which surprised me) sunfire head of kha'zix (just kidding, always pick rengar into kha'zix, getting this makes you unstoppable)
Thanks, guitar. I had a game yesterday where I was jungle rengar and disconnected for the first 4 minutes or so. Then the enemy team came into my jungle and killed me. Several times. I think I was 0-5 by 10 minutes? Anyways, I finished the game, a victory, 4-11 with 4 inhibitor kills and 4 tower kills. Ult so good runaway tool.
Guitar, your build is super fun. I don't even have to know how to play this champion. Fight break out near you? Mash buttons and wow I did something. Fight broke out that I'm not close to? Np push super duper fast by spamming buttons.
The build is really fun once you complete your tiamat/hydra, but how do you survive lane until then?
Either I was doing it really wrong or I was just outplayed by the Jarvan I faced yesterday; I couldn't compete with his early-game harass, and empowered W took far too long to get to make up for Jarvan's EQ-auto harass.
I was actually able to handle him (despite his kill lead) once I completed Hydra and Kindlegem, but what do you do levels 1-5?
I need to get good enough to activate Rengar's ult and keep fighting while trying to stealth. Is it possible to auto someone after pressing R and still stealth later?
On June 01 2013 01:59 bmn wrote: The build is really fun once you complete your tiamat/hydra, but how do you survive lane until then?
Either I was doing it really wrong or I was just outplayed by the Jarvan I faced yesterday; I couldn't compete with his early-game harass, and empowered W took far too long to get to make up for Jarvan's EQ-auto harass.
I was actually able to handle him (despite his kill lead) once I completed Hydra and Kindlegem, but what do you do levels 1-5?
Who cares? huehuehuehue
On June 01 2013 02:11 obesechicken13 wrote: I need to get good enough to activate Rengar's ult and keep fighting while trying to stealth. Is it possible to auto someone after pressing R and still stealth later?
Yes, the stealth can only be broken once it has actually started.
I encountered a Hydra first Rengar when I was playing Jax, and it was obnoxious as hell. He felt a lot stronger than usual, and his pushing power was crazy. Then he just roamed and murdered everyone on my team and I felt like I couldn't really do anything (partly because the enemy team had a TF so following him was ill advised when I didn't know where TF was).
On June 06 2013 01:52 zer0das wrote: I encountered a Hydra first Rengar when I was playing Jax, and it was obnoxious as hell. He felt a lot stronger than usual, and his pushing power was crazy. Then he just roamed and murdered everyone on my team and I felt like I couldn't really do anything (partly because the enemy team had a TF so following him was ill advised when I didn't know where TF was).
Thats a bit unsettling, Jax has been very reliable for me in countering Rengar's lvl 2 all-in, but I guess since the red pot changes I haven't faced much Rengars in general and maybe the ones left are playing safer? Or were you both jungling?
On June 06 2013 03:06 101toss wrote: it's generally better to run [tiamat] rengar from the jungle
you have better roam potential, can start double rejuv, tiamat makes your clear not garbage, and post-6 ganks are dumb
I imagine though that by the time you finish the Tiamat, clear speed isn't really as big of a priority given Rengar's kit/playstyle but I do like it's contribution in teamfights on Rengar
On June 23 2013 13:36 obesechicken13 wrote: Is assassin Rengar the only legitimate Rengar? And if so out of the jungle do you give up flash for ignite?
IMO assassin Rengar is the only legitimate Rengar, actually u can go for more tanky Rengar, but it has to be with Spirit Visage, Solari Locket and the jungle item that provides CD reduction (can;'t remember the name) but u still gotta have 2 heavy damage items to start with. That kind of tanky Rengar may somehow works coz of the enormous CD reduction u get.
Regarding ignite/flash you are not Shaco u dont have gap closer pre 6 and after 6 the CD is long enough so u cannot only rely on ulti for ganks. I actually sacrifice Flash for Ghost, without Ghost mid and side lanes from the river are actually ungankable, the only gank u can do without Ghost is at side lanes coming from behind and hide in bushes.
And my 2 cents for Rengar overall:
At my silver level where people die like flies to junglers with reliable gap closers, I don't like Rengar jungle, coz its hard to gank pre 6, moreover if your lane doesnt react on time (which happens a lot) Rengar can be easily killed by the guy u gank, since Rengar doesnt clear very fast in the beginning and often comes to the ganks with significant health deficit. So what happens most of the time is you gotta farm in the jungle while your team dies to their jungle every minute (like its Cool Down based) or you gotta risk ganks where you may die easily with or without counter-ganking. However, in higher Elo where people dont die so often Rengar should be viable pick in jungle I suppose.
Here's a basic triple Q: I think it was fixed by putting a cooldown on Q on use rather than activation.
You start with less than 5 stacks of your passive. Even 0 stacks will work.
stealth
It doesn't matter when you first activate your normal Q as long as it's before you gain 5 stacks
Then you get a 5th stack of your passive from your ult
Then you wait for your normal Q to get off cooldown (if needed)
Then you jump on your target proccing your normal Q
Press Q to activate your Empowered Q
Autoattack your empowered Q
Activate your normal Q
autoattack again with your normal Q
W
E
This gives you 2 normal Qs and one empowered Q. As well you gain 3 ferocity stack from your QWE at the end and up to 1 from leaving stealth and attacking. If you have 14 stacks on your bonetooth then you end up with 4 stacks of your passive.
This method requires no real setup but you can't jump on someone until you have 5 stacks and your normal Q is about to come off cooldown. It also gives very few empowered Qs.
It is the most timing dependent.
It seems like a bug that Rengar's Q's cooldown starts ticking as soon at level 1 you can also cheese people by hiding in a brush, activating Q, waiting for them to come near, and then double Qing.]
Here's Zekent's
You start with any amount of stacks. The more the faster you can do this.
You activate ult
Get 5 stacks of your passive
Activate empowered Q
This won't break stealth so you will keep gaining ferocity. Zekent waits for 2 ferocity
Then you Jump on someone, proccing your empowered Q
Get one normal Q off
W E. You now have 5 stacks
Then you Empowered Q again
This gets 2 empowered Q's off and 1 normal Q off. You end up with 0 stacks of your passive. It's good. This is not as timing dependent as the last combo and has a higher burst.
Don't forget to combine with Hydra and BotrK and ignite as these are the items/summoners that provide the most burst I think.
I think the only way to improve on Zekent's triple Q is to try to end up with more stacks of your passive at the end. You ideally start with a few stacks. More is better and in fact you need at least 1 stack since Rengar's ult only lasts 7 seconds for 9 stacks gained during the ult. Activate ult and wait till you have 5 stacks. Emp Q. Wait for 5 more stacks. Jump. Emp Q. Q W E. This leaves you with 2 Empowered Qs, 1 normal Q, 1 W, 1 E and 4 stacks of your passive.
Basically change step 5 above to wait for more stacks.
He's always bordering being able to assasinate people mid game and then he needs several offensive items to remain a threat later in the game. You really need ignite to secure kills before you get exhausted or stuff happens. But that means that mid to late game you'll be trading kills when you assasinate someone successfully.
On June 27 2013 12:18 SoulSever wrote: tons of rengar top incoming since OnlyRengar stream got mad numbers today on his 1st time streaming? Few teams can cope with his splitpushing and 1v1
Yeah, I watched his stream, say that he clicks to level up his skills, has very poor decision making, and isn't that articulate. So I bought rengar, and if you want to get FB it fucking easy. Rengar is quite good right now. He kinda reminds me of a mix between nidalee and kassadin. Stay in bushes to juke, blow your load and back off. Then add in that he can instantly put down 600+ damage to a turret and have a 150% AS buff on top of it if you want to split.
On July 01 2013 01:31 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Yeah, I watched his stream, say that he clicks to level up his skills, has very poor decision making, and isn't that articulate. So I bought rengar, and if you want to get FB it fucking easy. Rengar is quite good right now. He kinda reminds me of a mix between nidalee and kassadin. Stay in bushes to juke, blow your load and back off. Then add in that he can instantly put down 600+ damage to a turret and have a 150% AS buff on top of it if you want to split.
If you suck at top lane like me, pick rengar.
His stream was similar to WoDx but less condescending (similar voice and speech patterns). Also pretty humble and tries hard to be polite. Things I look for when I have time to casually watch a stream
My only gripe about OnlyRengar is that he tries to win the lane through brute force and won't do it via attrition. It's not the best option Rengar has but it's certainly a viable option when you're behind in lane to a melee fighter. Whoring W heals is something i'd like to see him to do more.
It sure makes for some interesting matches though.
On July 01 2013 11:52 Phunkapotamus wrote: My only gripe about OnlyRengar is that he tries to win the lane through brute force and won't do it via attrition. It's not the best option Rengar has but it's certainly a viable option when you're behind in lane to a melee fighter. Whoring W heals is something i'd like to see him to do more.
It sure makes for some interesting matches though.
Old W made it really good to get 1 point in then only use when it was empowered but new W is never worthwhile to max in lane and 1 point worth of healing is pitiful. It can save your life occasionally and always get 1 point to stack ferocity but "whoring W heals" is hardly the way to win lane against any top laner nowadays
Rengar heals the same amount regardless of W level. The way it should be. If empowered Q were strong as rank 5 Q and empowered E were as strong as rank 5 E then you'd see a lot more dynamic decision making on Rengar instead of just "Herpaderp I maxed W, time to use emp W"
On July 04 2013 08:54 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Max E is so absurdly strong right now, all you do is jump out of bushes and bola them for harass until they can't stay in lane any longer
I also prefer to max E first than Q. IT leads you to more empowered stacks more often, which i favor more than the higher burst of maxed Q 1st.
I build pure damage. Usually a Tiamat/Bilgewater depending on lane into brutalizer, cdr or defense boots and just faceroll your way to victory. Rengar is pretty good rgiht now. As others have pointed out E max is great in lane and once you hit 6 you basically get a free kill on top, mid or jungler every time the ult is up.
As the guy above said - pure damage, I personally prefer to start with CDR items such as brutalizer and kindlegem to enhance my lane phase with more empowered stacks, I mean the gameplan is harass with E and when empowered - trade until he is gone or dead Then bonetooth, bloodthurster, last whisper, bruta>black cleaver. I also prefer the swiftness boots, it helps you catch up with faster champs and also when u are out of ulti, moreover they save me in teamfights where i kill adc/apc and wanna run out of the fight but the endless slows are all on me Finally (or a bit earlier depend on the game) I upgrade the kindlegem to smth usually defensive as spirit visage. Spirit visage is great on rengar, especially when the enemies have a resets based ap b...ch like katarina) but u may always go Locket or the jungle item(always forget its name) for general survivability or u can even go for an extra damage with Zeke Herald
p.s. I actually copied this build from Dekar (best Rengar NA), I tried others with Hydra with BotRK, more tanky etc. but this one I liked the most, makes your lane phase great vs "lesser creatures" and decent vs hard times like Jax, Riven and even Renekton/Darius. It also gives you great split pushing power, maybe not as much as Hydra's but you still split push in no time coz of the faster empowered procs and last but not least your burst is good enough to one shot adcs and most of the apcs) and when u get BT and LW u sometimes one shot even tanks.
p.p.s I also think that BT > BotRK on Rengar. Rengar has its steroids for AS, while the AD and Crits coming from BT are way superior.
I just saw a Hecarim that ganked like 4 times for 4 kills by minute 10 before I'd even ganked once. I started no machete and just tried to do a last whisper build because I think LW adds the most damage late game to my burst. Not sure though.
He cleared faster than me due to machete but I think I outscaled him since he bought so much movespeed and the spirit item didn't help. I counterganked two or three times and somehow won. I think LW is the best item you can get on Rengar for bursting anyone down. But it's also the slowest for clearing and you may want health pots to stay at full health.
Also I was wrong about triple Q on page 5. Rincent does it right. Get 2(+) stacks then you can activate your ult. Rengar ult delivers at most 5 stacks.
I just learned that Rengar's Q can be used while in stealth, and then he can still jump if done immediately after.
This likely has to do with how he can leave the brush and still have a split second to jump to someone. The implications are, that if you don't have to jump on someone to get close, and you have 5 stacks on your Q already, you can get one more auto into your rotation slightly faster since you don't combine the jump and empowered Q into one attack. In addition, if the target immediately flashes after you Q, you can still catch them.
I've stopped going for no spirit jungles. I get a madreds razor now and I mean to sell it later in the game but end up usually converting it to a wriggles because I forget. Wriggles is nice sustain and buff killing but doesn't give much burst, which if you're playing Rengar, is probably your top priority. If you sell razor then it sets your late game build back 210 gold and your early game build back 700 gold, but the clear speed might be worth it.
Rengar's been hurt by a lot of the nerfs eg: to jungle camps spawning at 1:55+ (he needed to build up stacks on wraiths to get an earlier empowered Q or a gank), to big buff monsters giving less experience (he was a good invader), to the oracles change allowing it to stay after death (Rengar needs stealth)... etc. Still feels ok.
So I've been doing some NinFang rengar (Korean rengar) inspired by his 31-0 Rengar
Q>W>Q>E>Q>R then R>Q>W>E start Fortpot and 3 pots NinFang runs 18AD 12Armor Runes and 21-9-0 Masteries and Ignite/Flash
Lane phase charge up Q while farming to get 4 ferocity by lv2. Against some champs you can all in them at lv2 otherwise lv3 cause Rengar has a 100-0 combo. (jump, Q, QW multicast, W+auto+ignite)
Get 2dblades and boots preferrably at first back Core items: Black Cleaver, Bonetooth, Last Whisper, Zerkers/Mobility
I didn't have the same success but its really effective in Gold 1 MMR. (I personally went 16-5 using this strategy) This is likely impossible after his rework, I didn't really read into it lol
On August 30 2013 08:50 deathray797 wrote: What's this empowered Rengar q/w bug I've been hearing about?
Your empowered W and E don't actually use up ferocity until after the spell finishes its cast animation, which is somewhat significant. So what you can do is get full fury, mash W+E and then Q really fast. If you do it fast enough, you'll get off an empowered W and E AND have an empowered Q up. This lets you essentially get double Q, W, and E for silly amounts of damage.
On August 30 2013 08:50 deathray797 wrote: What's this empowered Rengar q/w bug I've been hearing about?
Your empowered W and E don't actually use up ferocity until after the spell finishes its cast animation, which is somewhat significant. So what you can do is get full fury, mash W+E and then Q really fast. If you do it fast enough, you'll get off an empowered W and E AND have an empowered Q up. This lets you essentially get double Q, W, and E for silly amounts of damage.
Rengar free week, came here looking for guides on how to build him nowadays. This sounds too much fun to pass up here.
On September 13 2013 09:28 sung_moon wrote: So while I've been having a ton of fun playing this guy as a heavy splitpusher/AD assassin, can this guy still be playable as tanky?
Like one or two Kindlegems into SV, then Warmogs/Omen etc.?
I think smash plays him with SV but no one I know of builds full Tank Rengar. Imo he doesn't have enough CC and unlike Alistar doesn't have 70% damage reduction for 7 seconds which are two of the main things you look for in tanks. Other tanks like Zac can at least initiate from a long range. I've tried full tank Rengar and felt nearly worthless late game.
I go mercs,ravenous,blade,tooth,LW & BC. For that papertiger pwnage. Can switch blade for BT or LW for some survivability item. If required by situation. This is when I jungle and I'm really low so don't put to much stock in my opinion ^^
I've seen some tankier builds and some builds with crit in them but I prefer that brutal reliable 100->0 damage.
When I get 9 stacks and the ski jump addon, life is good =) Triple Q all day...
Ps. The thing I like most about rengar is that feeling you put in people when you come from nowhere and just roll face. When playing against rengar I've literally felt my heart jump, no other hero can provoke that feeling...
On August 30 2013 08:50 deathray797 wrote: What's this empowered Rengar q/w bug I've been hearing about?
Your empowered W and E don't actually use up ferocity until after the spell finishes its cast animation, which is somewhat significant. So what you can do is get full fury, mash W+E and then Q really fast. If you do it fast enough, you'll get off an empowered W and E AND have an empowered Q up. This lets you essentially get double Q, W, and E for silly amounts of damage.
Oh shit, maybe that's why people can actually pull off jungle rengar and do so much damage out of stealth.
On August 30 2013 08:50 deathray797 wrote: What's this empowered Rengar q/w bug I've been hearing about?
Your empowered W and E don't actually use up ferocity until after the spell finishes its cast animation, which is somewhat significant. So what you can do is get full fury, mash W+E and then Q really fast. If you do it fast enough, you'll get off an empowered W and E AND have an empowered Q up. This lets you essentially get double Q, W, and E for silly amounts of damage.
Oh shit, maybe that's why people can actually pull off jungle rengar and do so much damage out of stealth.
Not necessarily. Triple Q, which I'm pretty sure isn't a bug unlike what I described in the quote, does insane amounts of damage as well. Heck, Rengar's ratios are pretty insane so Empowered Q-Q does a crapton of damage too if you max it and build damage.
I'm pretty sure most people use Triple Q instead of the double everything bug since that one is easier with a high latency.
On August 30 2013 08:50 deathray797 wrote: What's this empowered Rengar q/w bug I've been hearing about?
Your empowered W and E don't actually use up ferocity until after the spell finishes its cast animation, which is somewhat significant. So what you can do is get full fury, mash W+E and then Q really fast. If you do it fast enough, you'll get off an empowered W and E AND have an empowered Q up. This lets you essentially get double Q, W, and E for silly amounts of damage.
Oh shit, maybe that's why people can actually pull off jungle rengar and do so much damage out of stealth.
Not necessarily. Triple Q, which I'm pretty sure isn't a bug unlike what I described in the quote, does insane amounts of damage as well. Heck, Rengar's ratios are pretty insane so Empowered Q-Q does a crapton of damage too if you max it and build damage.
I'm pretty sure most people use Triple Q instead of the double everything bug since that one is easier with a high latency.
Yeah, as a Rengar main now I've never used the WE bug before afaik. I still do good damage.
On August 30 2013 08:50 deathray797 wrote: What's this empowered Rengar q/w bug I've been hearing about?
Your empowered W and E don't actually use up ferocity until after the spell finishes its cast animation, which is somewhat significant. So what you can do is get full fury, mash W+E and then Q really fast. If you do it fast enough, you'll get off an empowered W and E AND have an empowered Q up. This lets you essentially get double Q, W, and E for silly amounts of damage.
Oh shit, maybe that's why people can actually pull off jungle rengar and do so much damage out of stealth.
Not necessarily. Triple Q, which I'm pretty sure isn't a bug unlike what I described in the quote, does insane amounts of damage as well. Heck, Rengar's ratios are pretty insane so Empowered Q-Q does a crapton of damage too if you max it and build damage.
I'm pretty sure most people use Triple Q instead of the double everything bug since that one is easier with a high latency.
Yeah, as a Rengar main now I've never used the WE bug before afaik. I still do good damage.
Why would you need to if you can just abuse Triple Q for dumb amounts of burst to instagib most lanes?
Hi Guys, Rengar is my main champ, I am not a good player but managed to carry myself to Gold and I did it mostly with my beloved Rango:-). My advantage was that people at these levels actually did not know how to play against him and how strong he can be, additionally no one was picking him. However, season 4 came and fucked me up twice. First Rango got popular and people started to pick/ban him, which was ok lets say, but now with Patch 4.1 I really don't know how to continue.
So I have few questions, hoping people with better understanding of the game will help me decide:
Is Rango still viable? Should I abandon him as main and change with someone else? If he is viable: 1) Is he viable as offensive tank? 2) Is he viable as assassin? 3) both? depends on the case. ( I was playing both tank and assassin Rango until now, depending on our team composition)
On January 18 2014 14:42 SagaZ wrote: Hey, with the new patch reducing your Q onhit time to 2 secs, is it still possible to pull off the triple Q combo?
Fade time for Thrill of the Hunt is 1 second (assuming you take no damage) and the new patch makes it so you have 2 seconds to attack after Q cast but I think the cooldown of the third q won't be up yet, if I'm thinking through this correctly.
On January 18 2014 14:42 SagaZ wrote: Hey, with the new patch reducing your Q onhit time to 2 secs, is it still possible to pull off the triple Q combo?
You can but its very hard now. Watch that video:
you cannot start the ulti far away from your victim, you have to be close but unseen and then when you have 2 stacks you have half a second to jump on your victim before the empowered Q goes down, so the only option is for you to manage to start the ulti close to him and wait for exactly two stacks before jump (1 stack won't do it, 3 stacks will fuck the empowered Q)
On April 06 2014 23:19 Basaest wrote: Any thoughts on the new Rengar? Felt really clunky and strange playing him, seemed to be more of a nerf on the way i have played him.
1) Assassin Rengar too hard to pull of now, actually close to impossible. Assassin Rango - dead 2) Bruiser Rengar viable, but he have hard time laning due to skill shot E, you can't harass, you cant all in, but you can farm fairly safe with W maxed in a way Mundo is played, but after that you are not as useful as Mundo. Still Ulti mechanics is unique though 3) Hard to pick separated targets with Ulti now, still you can use it in team fights to reach back lines and to reveal enemies for your team 4) Jungle Rango somehow works better, coz you may succeed to gank pre 6 with E. if you are getting counter jungled you run, you can't defend from counter jungling if it happens. Clearing slower due to no attack speed on Q. but you are a bit more durable so kind of evens up. 5) Quest with Kha zix - you are fucked up, you only do it not to allow zix winning it. You can get your reward with or without the quest 6) split pushing? I think even annie can split push faster now with tibbers working on the turrets xD
Overall, Rengar is decent at its state now, he does not excel in anything but is decent, playable if you are a fan.
as a top laner he is strong early, but falls off pretty hard later on. He has high base damages and a ton of free tank stats. Also his empowered W scales with level and with missing health, so all you need is 1 point in it and you're good to go for laning phase.
His W seems to encourage jumping into the middle of the enemy team, but the rest of his kit is for assassinating someone...not good IMO.
Also now his ult doesn't generate ferocity until after you exit stealth...so make sure you are at full ferocity before you ult.
No AS on his Q, no Q on towers...so split-pushing rengar is no more.
Also with no AS bonus on Q and no double-Q, you can't really assassinate anyone either.
While he's more balanced, he definitely seems pretty weak overall.
so why was he nerfed again? A. he wasn't very popular and B. you could pretty much tell 100% of the time when rango was gonna pop out of stealth and delete someone.
On April 08 2014 21:12 skunk_works wrote: so why was he nerfed again? A. he wasn't very popular and B. you could pretty much tell 100% of the time when rango was gonna pop out of stealth and delete someone.
He didn't have a skillshot. Riot saw this incredible design failure and fixed it the only way they knew how.
On April 08 2014 21:12 skunk_works wrote: so why was he nerfed again? A. he wasn't very popular and B. you could pretty much tell 100% of the time when rango was gonna pop out of stealth and delete someone.
Because unless you were surrounded by pink wards he'd walk in, triple Q a squishy and kill him in around ~1.5s. Didn't really have much counterplay with oracle removed.
Rengar jungle what do you pick for red and quint runes? I mean both AD or one of the them AS? before I was using only AD but now Q no longer gives AS, so I kind of think AS runes may enhance his experience in the jungle, but wanted to check out opinions.
EPT
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