EPT[Champion] Ryze - Page 3
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Craton
United States17303 Posts
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On August 26 2012 01:10 Craton wrote: The point is to learn their weaknesses. Of course, because if you learn how to beat them by playing them you don't need to join them anymore. :D Anyway, I changed some stuff around in the op, removed the tips section and worked those into the rest of the guide. It was mostly for the free tear charge thing anyway. | ||
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Djin)ftw(
Germany3357 Posts
When I play solo mid with Ryze I have a hard time last hitting against heroes like Ahri or Gragas. They spam their AOE spells to kill the 3 creeps in the back really fast, auto attack a bit and after 2 or 3 waves I'm at my tower where it is much harder for me to lasthit. Now I thought a bit about it, but searching for "laning" and "control wave" didnt help, sorry. So what do you do in this case? Skill e earlier? Try to harass more? Use more auto attacks? Just deal with last hitting under the tower (any tips?) Also I'm curious as to when you should try to get neutral creeps in addition to your waves. I usually try to get the wraiths as soon as my lane is clear and the jungler is not in sight, but I'm not sure if this is correct play. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
Taking wraiths often depends on your own judgement/situation in the game, when there is nothing else to do and your jungler is somewhere else do it. When you ward the enemy wraiths, put the ward so you see the actual camp, then you can steal the blue wraith over the wall every time its up. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Early on, melee creeps are two tower hits then auto. Ranged creeps are one tower hit and two autos. I cheat and run AD reds on some of my mid laners (LB) Take wraiths whenever you don't have to give up too much to do so. How much health/mana/cs will you miss if you go kill your jungler's wraiths? What's the chance of you getting killed if you take their jungler's? 5 is just about the earliest level that anyone starts stealing their jungler's creeps. | ||
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Djin)ftw(
Germany3357 Posts
On September 16 2012 02:52 h3r1n6 wrote: It depends at which level they push you. In the first few levels, if you notice the wave is pushing towards you, try to auto attack it a lot and use E on it if mana allows it. Pretty much all mids out-push Ryze without his ultimate, so you will be at your tower at one point or another. When at your tower, one auto attack after 2 tower shots for the melee creeps, 2 auto attacks and one tower shot for the ranged creeps. The ranged ones you don't have time to auto attack twice or the melee ones at odd health, use q or w for. With his low cooldown spells Ryze is good at farming at tower. That I pretty much know already (AA ranged creep/tower hit/kill with another AA or Q/W). But what do you do when you see that you are being pushed? Do you go for as many creeps as possible or do you hit the creeps in a way that you get the kills within tower range? So lets say the enemies wave consists of 5 creeps, 2 melee and 3 ranged and is about to get to your tower. 1 ranged 1 melee are about half hp and will die by one tower hit. Do u then spam Q/W on the melee and auto attack the healthy ranged ones or what? I just dont understand how you can maintain a nearly 100% farm with ryze, but obv people in the high ELO areas can do it. Taking wraiths often depends on your own judgement/situation in the game, when there is nothing else to do and your jungler is somewhere else do it. When you ward the enemy wraiths, put the ward so you see the actual camp, then you can steal the blue wraith over the wall every time its up. Hm ok this already seems a bit more complex since now I want to know whether to iniate ganks.... puh. I guess the easiest way discussing this would be to provide a replay | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On September 16 2012 03:05 Djin)ftw( wrote: That I pretty much know already (AA ranged creep/tower hit/kill with another AA or Q/W). But what do you do when you see that you are being pushed? Do you go for as many creeps as possible or do you hit the creeps in a way that you get the kills within tower range? So lets say the enemies wave consists of 5 creeps, 2 melee and 3 ranged and is about to get to your tower. 1 ranged 1 melee are about half hp and will die by one tower hit. Do u then spam Q/W on the melee and auto attack the healthy ranged ones or what? I just dont understand how you can maintain a nearly 100% farm with ryze, but obv people in the high ELO areas can do it. Hm ok this already seems a bit more complex since now I want to know whether to iniate ganks.... puh. I guess the easiest way discussing this would be to provide a replay Well, when the enemy is pushing, they won't instaclear the wave in the early levels, and later on you can do the same with your ult. When you see you are being pushed, constantly auto attack the wave, maybe use E on it, but try not to miss any cs doing that. Needs some practice to not miss cs while autoing as much as possible, but its more benefical than having to deal with a huge wave at your tower. In the case you mentioned, say you are lvl 5 Ryze. If the melee would die from 1 tower shot, rank 3 Q+auto should kill it too. Then the tower will be attacking the full health melee minions twice before you have to attack it, so you can get 1-2 autos in on the full health ranged minions. Use Q to kill the half health ranged minion, while using your autos to clear the rest. If executed correctly you should get all the last hits with just using 2 qs. As far as ganking goes, you just need to get some experience on what you can and can't gank. Say you are lvl 11 on blue side, just pushed out mid and see the enemy bot lane pushed to their tower, both at half health, being pressured by your bot lane. You go down river and can come from behind themm ideally bringing your jungler to get 2 easy kills. It requires experience on what you can gank and what you can't gank and you rarely know 100% if and where wards are, but you can make educated guesses. Roaming/ganking at proper times is also something I still have to work on. | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
1 - With your CDR maxed, you almost never have time to autoattack to make use of the proc. Your cooldowns are very low and your passive lets you cast them constantly, each spell making the next come up more quickly. Your AS is so low that you can't weave in autos into your spell chain without sacrificing cast time for it. The little time you do have in between spells you should be using to reposition. 2 - you aren't building truckoads of AP to use on Lichbane. Just because it has mana on it doesn't make it good - it's not exactly efficient on mana (You could get the same AP & Mana for half the cost if you wanted to.) 3 - MR Shred is going to increase your damage significantly. Mana isn't your only damage stat, you do magic damage and the shred additionally helps your allies. Additionally, your spells are short range such that even after the Abyssal nerf, unless you're casting spells at the edge of your range, you will have the enemies in your aura range. 4 - Due to all of the factors above, Lichbane is more expensive for less gain. Really... what makes you think it's a good item for Ryze? You aren't going to spend that much money on mediocre amount of mana+80 AP. If you were, you might as well be stacking multiple AA staves or RoAs. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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.ImchEEzy
Canada123 Posts
i tend to get boot>tear>roa>sorc>abyss>frozen heart>arch>idk also why did the op get various tier 2 items for the mid game for 7k gold rather than going for the regular build. Does Spell vamp really help all that much? | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On October 09 2012 14:30 Mystic_Starcraft wrote: im kinda new so can someone explain why they get catalyst first rather then the tear? i tend to get boot>tear>roa>sorc>abyss>frozen heart>arch>idk also why did the op get various tier 2 items for the mid game for 7k gold rather than going for the regular build. Does Spell vamp really help all that much? Catalyst first if you need the survivability, although i'd rather just get the red crystal then tear then finish catalyst if I need the survivability. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On October 09 2012 14:30 Mystic_Starcraft wrote: im kinda new so can someone explain why they get catalyst first rather then the tear? i tend to get boot>tear>roa>sorc>abyss>frozen heart>arch>idk also why did the op get various tier 2 items for the mid game for 7k gold rather than going for the regular build. Does Spell vamp really help all that much? Catalyst in lane >>>> Tear in lane. I explained that in the op, 75% of the time catalyst first is still true. I want to play aggressive from 6 onwards. Regarding the build in the op, recently I've been leaning a bit more towards going RoA, just because I farm better than before. More gold available makes the other items come faster. I can't stand not having cdr though and spellvamp is really nice on Ryze. I feel wota is a bit underrated after it's nerfs. It is a lot worse then before, but now you never see it anymore. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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adriftt
335 Posts
On September 16 2012 02:32 Djin)ftw( wrote: Hello, I recently started playing ranked games and I have a couple of questions but I dont want to make a thread for it so I'll ask in the threads I think are most appropriate. When I play solo mid with Ryze I have a hard time last hitting against heroes like Ahri or Gragas. They spam their AOE spells to kill the 3 creeps in the back really fast, auto attack a bit and after 2 or 3 waves I'm at my tower where it is much harder for me to lasthit. Now I thought a bit about it, but searching for "laning" and "control wave" didnt help, sorry. So what do you do in this case? Skill e earlier? Try to harass more? Use more auto attacks? Just deal with last hitting under the tower (any tips?) Also I'm curious as to when you should try to get neutral creeps in addition to your waves. I usually try to get the wraiths as soon as my lane is clear and the jungler is not in sight, but I'm not sure if this is correct play. you will just have to lasthit under tower as ryze early. theres no way around it. something that can help with this, is in your masteries take 2/2 in the creep damage skill and 1 pt in the AD one. this will make it much easier to last hit under tower early and the 3 ap from the other talent is pretty insignificant also, while it sucks to get pushed in it can also be a good thing. ryze is one of the easiest mids to gank for so if they keep shoving your jungler will most likely come | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
What does it do? you are extremely tanky, fast and have great sustain. Your damage is hybrid and so hard to itemise against. You have a very strong initiation (wraiths>ult>Q>AA slow>W>AA slow), great burst and sustained damage. your single target dueling and teamfight AOE are both spectacular Why boots of celerity?: they now give a slow resist in addition to bonus movespeed. The main problem with ryze is he's quite kitable by a lot of longer ranged champs, both ad and ap. these stop that being particularly effective. Why manamune not archangels: Ryze has to be in AA range to do anything, and your AA's are critical due to iceborne anyway. You don't get a lot out of AP scaling and most importantly, the shield from seraph's is plain crap compared to 300+ on hit magic damage from an endgame muramana. Manamune also gives you a lot of clearing and pushing power. Give it a try. You can start sheen for lane dominance (funny on ryze) or start tear for a stronger midgame. Grab a negatron cloak early if being bullied and go ahead with your regular build. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
I really like muramana, not too fond of the gauntlet right now. I don't have a whole lot of time to play right now, but I got 2 Ryze games in. I went for Sorcs+the new haunting guise upgrade+manamune with frozen heart and banshees as defensive items. I gotta do some math on how good the new haunting guise actually is for Ryze. I want to update this thread soon-ish, but am missing experience with the new items. | ||
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