Ryze is my most played and best champion and the champion I pick when I desperately want to win a game. If you care about my ELO: As of writing this I'm sitting on 1526 ELO, barely in gold, but I don't play ranked much. This guide is aimed at giving you an overview of how I play Ryze and alternatives to my way of playing.
Why play Ryze? He is a tanky sustained damage mage that spams his spells a lot and moves around a lot in fights. He has weak but workable early levels and outscales most ap champions. He can build tanky items like Frozen Heart or Banshees Veil and gain damage from them since his spells scale off Mana. He is not inherently tankier than other mages, so you still have to watch out early game, but his build allows him to be very hard to kill.
Magic Damage: 60 / 85 / 110 / 135 / 160 (+0.4 per ability power) (+6.5% of max mana)
Your most used skill, pretty straight forward. It does damage to a single target and has a very low cooldown. Using this spell all the time will also make your other cooldowns short.
(Active): Ryze unleashes a bouncing orb of magical power which bounces to enemy units or himself, up to 5 times (for total of 6 hits). Each bounce deals magic damage and reduces the target's magic resistance for 5 seconds. If the orb bounces to Ryze himself, it will not decrease his magic resistance or deal damage.
(Active): Ryze becomes supercharged, gaining spell vamp, movement speed and causing his spells to deal 50% AoE damage.
Cooldown: 70 / 60 / 50 seconds
Spell Vamp: 15 / 20 / 25 %
Movement Speed: 35 / 45 / 55
Duration: 5 / 6 / 7 seconds
This has no cast time and no animation to it, which means that it does not interrupt Ryzes current orders and you can cast it while moving. You can cast it while your Q and E are still in the air, and they will get the bonus when they land. The aoe damage it grants has reduced spellvamp like any aoe spell, the single target component of the spells still proccs full spellvamp though.
3. Skill Order and Usage
Leave your first point open until you know what's happening. In invade scenarios you want to skill W for catching people, other than that you should get E. You skill E because it has the longest range and does the most damage on it's own, at least when you get lucky with bounces. Skill W when you need it. When you get ganked or your jungler ganks for you, having W is better than having Q. Other than that the skill order is:
R>Q>W>E
Example level order EWQQQRQWQWRWWEEREE
Maxing Q first as your bread an butter spell is pretty obvious. There is a case for leaving the ult at one point and getting his other skills first, but in my eyes you gain a lot more from leveling it than from the other spells. Everything about it gets better basically, so it's well worth the points. The snare duration is more important than the magic resist reduction from E, so W takes priority over E.
Use Q+auto attack for most of your early harassment if you can get in range. Using a full spell rotation (QWEQ) drains too much mana early on. Use Q for farming under your tower too. If you realize that the wave is pushing your way, auto attack the minions a lot and use E on it.
Your bread and butter combo is QWEQ and then whatever is available, prioritizing Q. Your animations force you to stand still while casting this, so you don't always cast them in this order since you have to move. Rule of thumb is, when your Q is available, use it, if not, use your other spells. Sometimes you want to safe your snare for someone (for example a Fizz trying to jump on your AD carry) so keep that in mind before mindlessly spamming all the buttons.
The usage of your ult depends on what you want to do. If you want to push your lane for example, use your ult right after QE while their projectiles are still traveling in order to get the most aoe damage. A teamfight case where you want to ult first is when your opponents are clumped up and your Malphite/Alistar gets a good knock up on 3/4 people. The aoe damage of QWEQ with ult is pretty good, but the radius isn't very large. In most teamfights and small skirmishes however, you should use your ult when your spells are on cooldown, because the ult triggers your passive. If you need to catch up to them, use the ult first, but don't expect wonders from the movement speed bonus.
When you chase someone, use the snare first, then move in further for more spells. During the Q animation they will gain more distance and you will never get in range to snare them. This of course does not apply if one spell would kill them, since the snare has the lowest range. After you hit the snare, move closer while using your other spells.
A big aspect of playing Ryze is repositioning yourself by moving inbetween casting your spell, so get used to doing that. Sometimes you don't need to move though and you should use your auto attack while your spells are on cooldown. This is mostly the case in lane, when it's a 1v1/2v2 situation and you don't have much cdr yet. In teamfights however, you will almost never have the time to auto attack.
Also, use smartcast for Ryze, but I guess that's pretty obvious.
4. Summoners
+ or
Flash is a no brainer. While being a get-out-of-jail-free card, Flash+snare can initiate teamfights and also sets up ganks really well. Get your jungler to gank for you, tell him that you are gonna flash+snare them and against most opponents you will get kills.
Ignite helps you get kills in lane and is good against champs with healing effects. Exhaust is the better late game spell and helps shut carries down in teamfights and helps you not die in lane if you need it. Both are viable, if you expect/want to kill your lane opponent, get ignite, otherwise get exhaust.
Taking Teleport for global presence is a possibility. I don't usually run it and prefer the combat power from Exhaust or Ignite. But when you need global presence, this is a very good way of getting some. Mostly recommended for arranged teams, as you can coordinate it much better.
Cleanse/Heal/Ghost might be viable choices, but I wouldn't advice you getting them unless you know what you are doing (in which case you don't need me). It's not a bad idea to have a heal on a team, but I'd rather let someone else take it. Ghost is neat, but you can get a little bit of faster runspeed on demand with your ult and otherwise it's redundant with Flash. Cleanse might be great against certain comps, but you should be fine with positioning+merc treads.
With season 3 changes and utility getting good, something like this should be the best option for Ryze in regards to masteries.
6. Runes
Marks - Magic pen
There is almost no other choice here. These increase your damage at all stages in the game. The only feasible alternative in my eyes would be flat AD, which help you in last hitting and harassing with auto attacks. I strongly suggest the magic pen though.
Seals - Armor, Health/level, Mana/level, Mana regen,
With season 3 there seem to be a lot more AD champions like Wukong played mid. This makes going armor the preferred choice here more often than not. If you don't know for sure what you are up against, just go armor, it's never a bad choice.
Glyphs - Flat magic resist
Against most champs that get played mid you want the flat mr in this slot, no contest there. In very specific cases you can get flat Mana or Mana/level in this slot.
Quints - Movement speed
Run around a lot, dodge all the skillshots, catch all the people. I feel like these are the only choice for the quint slot. Ryze is very dependent on catching up to people and moving a lot inbetween skills and these help you during all stages of the game. The only alternative I'd consider would be spellvamp, but you can get that much easier from items than movement speed. You can run flat mana or magic pen I guess, but those are very cheesy.
7. Build
Ryze is quite flexible in his item choices, since he scales off of a lot of different stats. Health, resistances and spellvamp are important for him to survive, since he has to get relatively close. At the same time, Mana, CDR, AP and Magic pen all improve his damage output. Ryze wants to max cdr since it synergizes amazingly with his passive and since it's very unlikely to always blue buff, making it part of the build should be a goal.
or
+
The opener comes down to preference in my opinion. I find flask nice to have, mainly since it allows skipping buying pots on subsequent backs. Faerie charm allows faster building of Tear and leaves more money for consumables. Starting without an item and only consumables is also very viable and offers the most sustain and wards for lane.
Spend the rest in consumables as you see fit. Against a lane with heavy harass you want the health pots, against a jungler that is has at least some threat early you want one or more wards. Manapots are nice to have, especially when you will get shoved to tower early or can harass a melee champion in lane.
+
Then either get Catalyst or get Tear, depending on what you need. After that get the other item. Catalyst is very strong item for lane and I always love having it. Since Tear is quite cheap, you can usually get it first, especially after opening Faerie charm, although in a hard lane you might want to get the Catalyst first.
Tear PSA:
You can get charges on your Tear without actually using spells. To do so, you have to use a spell on a minion that is about to die. When you last hit a minion with your auto attack, cast Q after you do the auto attack. If you time it right, you will not actually cast the spell, because the minion will die before you finish the animation. The charge on the Tear is added as you start casting, so you will get a charge without actually using the spell.
vs
Don't forget to get at least level 1 boots early on, preferrably with your tear. Movement speed is huge for Ryze and both of these upgrades offer a lot for him. Make the choice depending on what you need. If they have lots of reducable cc, magic damage and/or the enemy mid has high kill potential on you, get the mercs, for damage get sorc shoes.
Given it's cost efficiency RoA is pretty core on Ryze and will be the upgrade for the Catalyst most of the time. There are a few situation where a Banshees Veil can be the better choice for a catalyst upgrade, mainly when behind against a burst caster mid.
Since Muramana got it's toggle changed to physical damage, Seraphs is the better tear upgrade. Lot's of mana/ap and a shield to absorb burst.
A very strong item and in any given team, one person should have this. Due to giving mana and just enough cdr to get to 40% with masteries and the passive on Q, it is very good for Ryze. Get the glacial shroud relatively early, usually before upgrading catalyst and finish the item as you see fit. You can delay it and the glacial shroud (or skip it in rare scenarios), as long as you get blue buffs and physical damage is no real threat. After you finish it you can usually let your other team members take blue buff when they benefit from it.
Last 2 items:
Boots, RoA, Seraphs and Frozen Heart leaves 2 slots to fill. One option is to just get more Rod of Ages, but there are a lot of situational items Ryze can get which benefit him more.
While at first I thought it might be better to just get a second Rod of Ages instead, Warmogs health regen helps a lot in staying at full health through some poke before a teamfight and in keeping healthy enough to push or take objectives right after a teamfight. Probably the best defensive option right now.
The %penetration goes really well with flat magic penetration now, making Void Staff all the more viable for dealing more damage, even if your opponents don't have that much magic resistance.
Guardian Angel gives you an extra life and protects you from being focussed and bursted down. With his high sustained damage and tankiness from his build, this is a really good defensive choice and used to be my most common choice before I started liking Warmogs. Still really good when the opponent team is heavy on burst, but low on sustained damage.
Movespeed is one of the most important attributes for Ryze. Twin Shadows offers a strong albeit long cooldown active. I haven't build this yet, but this looks like it could have some viability.
Abyssal is still good, but flat reduction doesn't stack well with % penetration, like flat penetration does now. If you need MR and your team can use the aura, it's a viable choice.
As an alternative MR item, Banshees usefulness depends on what spell the Bubble blocks, so it often depends on the champions on the enemy team, whether it is a feasible item.
Lyandry's is an interesting item that goes well with Void Staff. You can get the Haunting Guise early and upgrade this much later. Don't expect this to do wonders, it does add some damage, but will leave you squishier than what I prefer. It should go really well with the amount of single target spells Ryze throws out, but other items are just more important from my tests.
Rylais helps kite really well, but since most champions that want to get close have means of doing so regardless of slows, this item isn't as good. It is really good against the handful of kiteable champions though, I like it, it's just very situational.
I kind of want to buy WotA, but there is not much reason to. Flask, catalyst and ult will supplement the sustain that Revolver would give. Double AP is pretty much a thing of the past, which is when this item shines the most. Very situational and dependent on your own teamcomp and there is very rarely a reason that justifies getting it.
8. Match-ups
Here is an overview over some match-ups against typical mid laners from my experience. In any lane, if the lane gets hard for you, buy MR. Cassio, LeBlanc, Swain and Zilean are some of the top candidates for getting a fast Negatron or at least Null Magic Mantle against. Delay your Tear if you have to, having a Ruby Crystal and a Null Magic Mantle and surviving is better than dying with 40 more charge on your tear.
This match-up is playable for Ahri, maybe even having a small advantage the early levels, but Ryze does outscale her and Ahri can't all-in him as easily as she can jump on other champions. Ahri does outrange Ryze with her Q though and can charm him and walk away if he gets too close. You can play aggressive, focus on dodging her charm and Q.
Hard for Ryze. She can push very hard post-6, trades very well with Ryze if she lands her Q and the wall is annoying for a rather short ranged mage that wants to move around a lot. Dodge her stun, there isn't a whole lot to do against the ult+e combo but to throw spells back at her. Anivia is really squishy without items, so you have a good chance of getting her into her egg if she gets too close. And with Ryze having good sustained damage, you should be able to kill the egg too.
A douche early on, but you will outscale him. Most of the time Brand players will poke with pillars, so predict and dodge those. If he gets in range to use his E, he gets in range for your skills. Dodge the stun and throw spells back at him and you will win exchanges. Remember that after he uses his combo he will have no damage for a while.
Hard match-up since she can exploit the early weakness of Ryze. You have to farm while avoiding getting harassed down until you have some items. When you get your items she should be manageable, try to dodge Qs and by all cost avoid getting stunned by the ult. It's playable with some practice, defense masteries heavily recommended for this one.
Represents everything that is wrong with midlane. Pushes hard while you can't kill him. Will not kill you either. His Q is not too hard to dodge and he doesn't have much sustained damage. It will take a lot of mana to kill him through his mr and his shield.
Pretty good for Ryze, although Gragas does have a lot of burst and pushing power. You can harass him early when he goes for cs, since he is melee. Watch out for him using his charge at early levels and punching you with his W on, he does a suprising amount of damage. Later on he can clear the wave with barrels and doesn't ever need to get in range of your spells.
You can kill him in a fight, but he will farm from a safe distance. When you do actually fight him, you can stay out of defile while keeping him inside of your spell ranges. And moving inbetween your spells you should be able to not get hit by Lay Waste.
Pretty easy match-up, harass him early on with a lot of auto attacks, don't let him trade for free post-6. If he rift walks in and silences you, try and follow him as he walks away and then blast him with spells. I recommend merc treads to reduce his cc.
Try to avoid his harassment early on. He won't be able to fight you after a while if you keep the lane even. Stay behind minions to not get hit by shurikens, don't let him auto attack you when he has his W proc up (his hands are lightning)
This girl is very annoying, but you can stack mr and still outscale her. Don't let her get kills on you by staying around on not full health. She is very squishy, so if you can damage her she will die quickly.
Mordekaiser can push hard, but you can hurt him a lot. His shield doesn't save him from your sustained damage. You should win this as long as you avoid letting him hit you and your creeps at the same time with his E, so don't stand inside of your own creepwave.
The match-up I probably played the most. Morgana can't fight Ryze at all, unless you play catch the bindings. Her full combo won't kill him and after that she literally has no damage. Like Karthus, she can farm from a safe distance and push hard though. If she is relatively close to you, break her spellshield by using Q and E before you snare her.
Will outtrade you early with autos and harass you from range a bit later. Watch out for her auto attacking you early on, they hurt. After a couple of levels she will be unable to fight you straight up, but she can still harass and push. Very squishy without her shield and without the ball on her. . He outtrades you hard and is really annoying to deal with as Ryze. It was much better when Ryze Q had 675 range, but now just ask for help from the jungle. The way these two champs work with their mainly single target spells, whoever gets ahead early on wins. One of Swain's biggest weaknesses is that he can't deal with being pushed, but Ryze can't really exploit that very well. Bring ignite.
Same as Morgana and Karthus. If you get close to him he dies since he is super squishy, but fighting other champions straight up isn't why people pick Twisted Fate. Farm it out, when he ults away, judge if you can follow and turn that around or push your lane.
Spam spells at each other until Vlad dies. Ryze has a nice advantage here. Both are quite weak early game, but Ryze gets stronger faster. If Vlad gets ahead by ganks or for some other reason, he gets really annoying though. He is similar to Swain in the way he fights against Ryze, but has a much weaker early game.
Really annoying bomb harassment. He can't fight you straight up, but he can push and harass you out of lane. As long as he has mana he is pretty much ungankable thanks to a stupidly good speed boost and his ult. Just farm what you can and don't fall too far behind, you will be much stronger than him.
So thats my Ryze guide. Feel free to discuss/suggest anything that I missed/have gotten wrong.
Nicely written guide. I've never considered Abyssal before, though I guess when you want it is when you have a team that can really benefit from it [and you don't need the banshee's]
I think upgrading the AA staff could stand to be a bit earlier in priority for varying degrees of how tanky you want to be. It does give an awful LOT of AP when you're sitting on an ROA and glacial shroud + itself
You should definitely go over the different spell combos to use. Ryze can chain together spells almost continuously, so using the right combo in the right situation is a big part of playing him.
On August 09 2012 10:30 BlasiuS wrote: You should definitely go over the different spell combos to use. Ryze can chain together spells almost continuously, so using the right combo in the right situation is a big part of playing him.
Right. Most of the time it's (R)QWEQ(R) and then whatever is up, a lot of Q. Some people advocate QWQEQRQ, where the idea is to maximize the amount of Q. Getting the spells on cooldown and reducing the cooldown with Q is better. Depends a bit on how much you have to move though. I will work a proper section in I think.
On August 09 2012 10:33 De4ngus wrote: should list flat mana blues as an option :o
It's a minor option in my eyes. Against almost any mid laner you will face, the flat mr is too valuable. If you make multiple pages for Ryze, you might want one with those.
After a suggestion from neo I wrote a bit more to the match-ups. I still could go way more indepth with each one I guess, but this is enough for now
It kinda depends on your CDR. Earlier on, when you have lower CDR, or when you're just trying to get out fast burst (like a gank), QWEQ is the way to go. In later teamfights, you will want to pace yourself more to maximize your passive usage and get off high sustained DPS and repeated snaring rather than maximum burst.
1 - Whenever possible, always Q before W. There exceptions, of course where you need to snare someone RIGHT NOW (so they don't flash away or something) more than you need to combo for raw damage.
2 - Reposition yourself between spells, ESPECIALLY during your snare. If you're trying to 1v1 someone for example, they're much less likely to get away if you QW -> walk towards them while they are snared -> spell -> walk -> spell -> walk than they are if you try to stand still and faceroll. This is easier during the sustained damage rotation because you have about 1 sec before Q comes back off cooldown (Q is a 2.1 sec CD with max CDR, -1 sec for the other spell, and a short delay for the cast time of that other spell.) during which you can reposition. You're still a mage, after all - tanky as you may be, position is key to not getting exploded.
3 - You like fights to last long, don't go so balls deep and get blown up early - draw out the fight as long as you/your team can.
4 - If you delay activating your Ulti in a teamfight, it usually means you'll have actually lost health when you start your ridiculous spellvampage. You also apply its -1 sec to CDs to all 3 of your damage spells. On the other hand, if you pop it immediately, it may help burst down people caught in a teammate's AOE setup (like a malphite ult or something)
5 - If you press R immediately after Q, it will activate the ulti before the Q lands, and that Q will benefit from it. Useful for both wave clearing and teamfighting
What are your thoughts on Athene's Unholy Grail for Ryze?
I've considered picking it up from time to time but I have been on an AD Carry stint as of late. I feel like all of the stats are beneficial for Ryze, but it would probably take place of Will of the Ancients or Abyssal Scepter.
On August 09 2012 13:49 Zarox wrote: What are your thoughts on Athene's Unholy Grail for Ryze?
I've considered picking it up from time to time but I have been on an AD Carry stint as of late. I feel like all of the stats are beneficial for Ryze, but it would probably take place of Will of the Ancients or Abyssal Scepter.
You don't usually need Grail on Ryze. There are better sources for MR (Abyssal or Banshee's) and the mandatory Tear/Catalyst means you have/will have an immense mana pool, so no real need for mana regen.
On August 09 2012 13:49 Zarox wrote: What are your thoughts on Athene's Unholy Grail for Ryze?
I've considered picking it up from time to time but I have been on an AD Carry stint as of late. I feel like all of the stats are beneficial for Ryze, but it would probably take place of Will of the Ancients or Abyssal Scepter.
Don't get it. You would have to construct a very specific scenario to make it worth it, where you don't want Frozen Heart, which means you still need cdr and still need mr after Abyssal or Banshees+mercs. Mana regen isn't as valuable when you have a 4k mana pool and ap is a useable, but not a priority stat.
So you are mostly paying for CDR and mana regen that you typically don't need and for mr that you can get on more useful items. If you don't get Frozen Heart for whatever reason and want CDR, I think Shurelya's would be a better choice. The active is awesome for Ryze.
I updated the OP with a few more details on spell usage and corrected some mistakes in spelling and grammar.
I have a question (which may come off as stupid) I recently got into a discussion with my friend about starting mana crystal as an initial item My friend thought it was viable (more so in lower-ELO/tier play), whereas I argued getting boots+3pots is just so much better
On August 10 2012 07:39 JerKy wrote: I have a question (which may come off as stupid) I recently got into a discussion with my friend about starting mana crystal as an initial item My friend thought it was viable (more so in lower-ELO/tier play), whereas I argued getting boots+3pots is just so much better
Thoughts on this for ryze?
Yea,if you don't start boots your going to get raped.Ryze has short range on his spells so you will get harassed down by anyone with decent range without being able to hit them back,the jungler will camp you because you move like a snail,overall you will have a pretty shitty day.So don't do anything outside starting boots,not just ryze,any mid lane out there.
Anyone EU-way know Alex Ich's Ryze runes/masteries? He was building Haunting Guise after Tear/Catalyst, and in one game grabbed DFG instead of Frozen Heart when the enemy team only had one source of AD damage.
On August 18 2012 22:17 Haasts wrote: Anyone EU-way know Alex Ich's Ryze runes/masteries? He was building Haunting Guise after Tear/Catalyst, and in one game grabbed DFG instead of Frozen Heart when the enemy team only had one source of AD damage.
Well, you can see his pages called Ryze on his lolking page:
Runes are the exact same that I run (mpen, mana/lvl, mr, ms), masteries are 0/9/21, with everything in the 3rd column of utility+movementspeed. Not sure if he ran those at IEM.
Pretty sure he's running 0/21/9 with mpen reds, armor yellows, MR blues and MS quints. I rewatched game 1 against Fnatic and he had 30 armor, 383 MS and 48 MR. You can't reach 383 MS without MS quints and both MS masteries for Ryze.
Nice, I didn't check the stats. 387 with boots 1 is what you get with ms quints+initiator, without the utility mastery. That's what I start the game with. 383 is most likely the utility mastery but not initiator. It probably is the ryze mastery page on his lolking profile (the resistances match too), just that he uses flat armor yellows over mana/lvl.
Small tip for waveclearing, since R is instant, hit QERQ, you should be able to activate R before the Q/E land and pretty much instaclear the melee creeps (let E bounce a little bit before sending your second Q), a followup WQ,Q should clear the ranged creeps easily. In other words, hit R AFTER you've cast a skill but before it lands. You get the passive cd reduction on said skill and the effect of R still applies. Don't ever open with R unless you need the movespeed to catch something.
Once you have your core of tear+catalyst+glacial, consider donating your blue buff to junglers like skarner, maokai, nautilus or ADs like corki/ezreal etc that make very good use of the cdr. You'll be sitting at 35%+ with enough of a mana pool to not need the regen.
RoA is for ryze what a deathcap is for most other mages. It's the single highest dps item on you until you get a charged tear.
Masteries-wise, I personally don't like the two points in butcher, I feel that it's unnecessary on ryze since his attack animation was improved, it's 2 damage either way so personal preference I guess.
Finally, in hard lanes, consider getting the nullmagic for mercs and sitting on it til after catalyst. The extra MR helps a lot in surviving any burst that happens to come out.
On August 19 2012 12:37 h3r1n6 wrote: Nice, I didn't check the stats. 387 with boots 1 is what you get with ms quints+initiator, without the utility mastery. That's what I start the game with. 383 is most likely the utility mastery but not initiator. It probably is the ryze mastery page on his lolking profile (the resistances match too), just that he uses flat armor yellows over mana/lvl.
Ah, you're right. He probably has different rune pages for Ryze too, although we can't be sure since we have no access to tourny realm data. Can't confirm but it makes sense to run Armor runes as well since Anivia AA range is significantly higher than ryze and the jungler was nocturne which deals AD damage.
You should probably add this mastery set to your guide too.
I think it is safe to add now that Ryze is pretty strong against Diana. Diana cannot all-in on Ryze after 6 because Ryze will punish her hard. The only problem is that Diana will just shove the lane, forcing Ryze to shove back with his mana or ultimate. But still, I think Ryze is a good counterpick against Diana.
I don't know. I played that match-up twice from the Diana side and it was a total stomp. Diana shoves so hard and can actually jump and chunk Ryze from level 6 on until Ryze is really tanky every time she pleases. My opponents weren't very good though.
I added Alex Ich masteries and some other stuff based on Lmuis suggestions
On August 20 2012 21:06 h3r1n6 wrote: I don't know. I played that match-up twice from the Diana side and it was a total stomp. Diana shoves so hard and can actually jump and chunk Ryze from level 6 on until Ryze is really tanky every time she pleases. My opponents weren't very good though.
I added Alex Ich masteries and some other stuff based on Lmuis suggestions
Diana can try to jump on Ryze, but she will be chunked really hard. At the same time, Ryze got spellvamp to sustain him and heal up the damage she caused.
The only thing Diana can do against Ryze is to shove the lane. But this puts her extremely vulnerable to ganks and after Ryze is 6-7 Ryze can happily and easily last hit at the tower.
When Diana takes like 2/3 of Ryzes health at level 6 with QW and 2R, while having a shield herself, Ryze is not gonna spellvamp that back that easily and Diana will win that exchange. Dunno, I just never had problems stomping any lane with Diana and I currently play her every chance I get.
On August 20 2012 23:27 h3r1n6 wrote: When Diana takes like 2/3 of Ryzes health at level 6 with QW and 2R, while having a shield herself, Ryze is not gonna spellvamp that back that easily and Diana will win that exchange. Dunno, I just never had problems stomping any lane with Diana and I currently play her every chance I get.
If ryze gets Q'd for free and diana ISN'T snared so she can't jump while ryze backs off, I don't see how ryze is going to win an exchange. But ultimately, Ryze can poke guaranteed, whereas diana needs to land a skillshot. Seems like an aggressive Ryze can auto/Q harass Diana while taking very little in return if he's good at dodging. If you're just both allin-ing off full health, of couse ryze is going to lose. Ryze isn't supposed to let Diana allin off full health, and snare will slow diana's combo/escape allowing for easy intervention from allies. It's the same reason Ryze is a good pick against Ahri. Ryze is very scary to dive onto.
On August 24 2012 14:10 zodde wrote: Anyone got some pointers for Ryze v Morde?
I'd imagine try to last hit under the tower as best you can, since he's going to shove like a mother fucker. Ask for jungleganks since he'll probably be over extending, and also ward your wraiths. Since mordekaiser can farm anywhere on the map with his grunting noises
On August 24 2012 14:10 zodde wrote: Anyone got some pointers for Ryze v Morde?
I'd imagine try to last hit under the tower as best you can, since he's going to shove like a mother fucker. Ask for jungleganks since he'll probably be over extending, and also ward your wraiths. Since mordekaiser can farm anywhere on the map with his grunting noises
I'd say W+Jungle = Kill For most of the earlygame.
Where are you having trouble exactly? The matchup is pretty favorable to Ryze early on, even if morde tries to outpush you. go aggressive from level 1. Trade lots of autos especially when his skills are on cooldown. You can Q occasionally but you don't want to burn too much of your mana pool if you don't think you can kill him. If you ding 2 before him he's pretty much a free kill if you've been harassing well. If he's been spamming E on the creep wave to try and get an advantage through levels just focus on farming under tower and call for a gank. Morde trying to farm past river is a dead morde. If your jungler isn't in position to gank for you pretend like he is anyway. Morde is just way too vulnerable early on to really risk it. By levels 3 and 4 he's still not very scary and your combo should be able to get through his shield. Continue to zone or harass him but if you notice he's trying to be aggressive while he's behind there must be a gank coming. Don't fall for the bait. His shield and ult can be deceptively strong when he all ins. Just back off if you need to.
Against the Kaiser, don't let him hit you+your minion wave with his E (the cone aoe) and auto+q him when he is in range, preferrably when he has no shield currently. It sucks when they have a strong ganking jungler and you can't really punish him (and your jungler ignores your lane), but if you farm well you can still fight him throughout the game.
I also got to play Ryze vs Diana from the Ryze side and it seems Ryze can do very well in that match-up and can punish her pretty well early on with auto+q harass. Diana will be able to farm very safely after a while (I guess her Q nerf will reduce that a bit) and I could not go too aggressive past level 7 or so most of the time since their top lane was roaming and our jungler was behind.
Thanks for the help guys :3 Guess i have to be more aggresive early on then. I also didn't get much help from the jungle at all, but I don't really count on that in solo Q ^^
On August 25 2012 00:56 zodde wrote: Thanks for the help guys :3 Guess i have to be more aggresive early on then. I also didn't get much help from the jungle at all, but I don't really count on that in solo Q ^^
Well, just tell your junglers that ganking mid will be easy kills with your snare+whatever the jungler has. Not every jungler is familiar with mid match-ups. Communicating that early is key instead of crying at 15 minutes omg noob jungler no ganks.
On August 25 2012 00:56 zodde wrote: Thanks for the help guys :3 Guess i have to be more aggresive early on then. I also didn't get much help from the jungle at all, but I don't really count on that in solo Q ^^
Well, just tell your junglers that ganking mid will be easy kills with your snare+whatever the jungler has. Not every jungler is familiar with mid match-ups. Communicating that early is key instead of crying at 15 minutes omg noob jungler no ganks.
Yeah I know he's an easy gank, and I told my jungler last game, but he seemed to have more important things to do. It's LoL solo Q, people don't always do what you expect them to
Typically goes something like this: "Mid no summoners" Jungle backs after first clear "Top warded <ping>" Jungler goes through wraiths, doesn't clear them, walks toward top through the pinged ward and skipping mid altogether, gets seen by top, walks back through river toward mid, gets seen by ward again, goes and clears wraiths and golems then backs again. Jungler still level 5 at 10 minutes.
Ryze is probably top 3-5 easiest lanes to gank for, too.
You should be able to zone Morde just by standing between him and the creeps once you get up a few levels and can spare the mana. You just have to diligently ward. There isn't a whole lot you can do early unassisted because of your mana costs.
On August 25 2012 07:36 Craton wrote: Oh, solo queue.
Typically goes something like this: "Mid no summoners" Jungle backs after first clear "Top warded <ping>" Jungler goes through wraiths, doesn't clear them, walks toward top through the pinged ward and skipping mid altogether, gets seen by top, walks back through river toward mid, gets seen by ward again, goes and clears wraiths and golems then backs again. Jungler still level 5 at 10 minutes.
Ryze is probably top 3-5 easiest lanes to gank for, too.
You should be able to zone Morde just by standing between him and the creeps once you get up a few levels and can spare the mana. You just have to diligently ward. There isn't a whole lot you can do early unassisted because of your mana costs.
Tell me about it. I had a RL friend who used to jungle in our games, but he quit the game to focus more on RL shit or something (bad decision if you ask me :D).
I think I have some old phobia for Morde since my first games when he got pentas every game (prenerf morde a year ago) so I'm still playing like a pussy against him whatever I play. I need a good therapy session against Mordephobia :/
Cass is a real fucking terror when you can't dodge skillshots (new to the game). :D But I've actually played cassio a lot, so I know how to play against her. I haven't played Morde at all, so I don't really know how to handle him correctly :/
But the thing about Mordekaiser is that almost no one can beat him straight up 1v1 in lane (I feel that even Cass vs Morde is a skill match up for Cass). Beating Mordekaiser greatly depends on him misplaying and getting ganked by your jungler. Fortunately he is very vulnerable to ganks.
On August 26 2012 01:10 Craton wrote: The point is to learn their weaknesses.
Of course, because if you learn how to beat them by playing them you don't need to join them anymore. :D
Anyway, I changed some stuff around in the op, removed the tips section and worked those into the rest of the guide. It was mostly for the free tear charge thing anyway.
Hello, I recently started playing ranked games and I have a couple of questions but I dont want to make a thread for it so I'll ask in the threads I think are most appropriate.
When I play solo mid with Ryze I have a hard time last hitting against heroes like Ahri or Gragas. They spam their AOE spells to kill the 3 creeps in the back really fast, auto attack a bit and after 2 or 3 waves I'm at my tower where it is much harder for me to lasthit. Now I thought a bit about it, but searching for "laning" and "control wave" didnt help, sorry.
So what do you do in this case? Skill e earlier? Try to harass more? Use more auto attacks? Just deal with last hitting under the tower (any tips?)
Also I'm curious as to when you should try to get neutral creeps in addition to your waves. I usually try to get the wraiths as soon as my lane is clear and the jungler is not in sight, but I'm not sure if this is correct play.
It depends at which level they push you. In the first few levels, if you notice the wave is pushing towards you, try to auto attack it a lot and use E on it if mana allows it. Pretty much all mids out-push Ryze without his ultimate, so you will be at your tower at one point or another. When at your tower, one auto attack after 2 tower shots for the melee creeps, 2 auto attacks and one tower shot for the ranged creeps. The ranged ones you don't have time to auto attack twice or the melee ones at odd health, use q or w for. With his low cooldown spells Ryze is good at farming at tower.
Taking wraiths often depends on your own judgement/situation in the game, when there is nothing else to do and your jungler is somewhere else do it. When you ward the enemy wraiths, put the ward so you see the actual camp, then you can steal the blue wraith over the wall every time its up.
Last hitting under tower better is how you deal with it. Early on, melee creeps are two tower hits then auto. Ranged creeps are one tower hit and two autos. I cheat and run AD reds on some of my mid laners (LB) Take wraiths whenever you don't have to give up too much to do so. How much health/mana/cs will you miss if you go kill your jungler's wraiths? What's the chance of you getting killed if you take their jungler's? 5 is just about the earliest level that anyone starts stealing their jungler's creeps.
On September 16 2012 02:52 h3r1n6 wrote: It depends at which level they push you. In the first few levels, if you notice the wave is pushing towards you, try to auto attack it a lot and use E on it if mana allows it. Pretty much all mids out-push Ryze without his ultimate, so you will be at your tower at one point or another. When at your tower, one auto attack after 2 tower shots for the melee creeps, 2 auto attacks and one tower shot for the ranged creeps. The ranged ones you don't have time to auto attack twice or the melee ones at odd health, use q or w for. With his low cooldown spells Ryze is good at farming at tower.
That I pretty much know already (AA ranged creep/tower hit/kill with another AA or Q/W). But what do you do when you see that you are being pushed? Do you go for as many creeps as possible or do you hit the creeps in a way that you get the kills within tower range?
So lets say the enemies wave consists of 5 creeps, 2 melee and 3 ranged and is about to get to your tower. 1 ranged 1 melee are about half hp and will die by one tower hit. Do u then spam Q/W on the melee and auto attack the healthy ranged ones or what? I just dont understand how you can maintain a nearly 100% farm with ryze, but obv people in the high ELO areas can do it.
Taking wraiths often depends on your own judgement/situation in the game, when there is nothing else to do and your jungler is somewhere else do it. When you ward the enemy wraiths, put the ward so you see the actual camp, then you can steal the blue wraith over the wall every time its up.
Hm ok this already seems a bit more complex since now I want to know whether to iniate ganks.... puh. I guess the easiest way discussing this would be to provide a replay
On September 16 2012 02:52 h3r1n6 wrote: It depends at which level they push you. In the first few levels, if you notice the wave is pushing towards you, try to auto attack it a lot and use E on it if mana allows it. Pretty much all mids out-push Ryze without his ultimate, so you will be at your tower at one point or another. When at your tower, one auto attack after 2 tower shots for the melee creeps, 2 auto attacks and one tower shot for the ranged creeps. The ranged ones you don't have time to auto attack twice or the melee ones at odd health, use q or w for. With his low cooldown spells Ryze is good at farming at tower.
That I pretty much know already (AA ranged creep/tower hit/kill with another AA or Q/W). But what do you do when you see that you are being pushed? Do you go for as many creeps as possible or do you hit the creeps in a way that you get the kills within tower range?
So lets say the enemies wave consists of 5 creeps, 2 melee and 3 ranged and is about to get to your tower. 1 ranged 1 melee are about half hp and will die by one tower hit. Do u then spam Q/W on the melee and auto attack the healthy ranged ones or what? I just dont understand how you can maintain a nearly 100% farm with ryze, but obv people in the high ELO areas can do it.
Taking wraiths often depends on your own judgement/situation in the game, when there is nothing else to do and your jungler is somewhere else do it. When you ward the enemy wraiths, put the ward so you see the actual camp, then you can steal the blue wraith over the wall every time its up.
Hm ok this already seems a bit more complex since now I want to know whether to iniate ganks.... puh. I guess the easiest way discussing this would be to provide a replay
Well, when the enemy is pushing, they won't instaclear the wave in the early levels, and later on you can do the same with your ult. When you see you are being pushed, constantly auto attack the wave, maybe use E on it, but try not to miss any cs doing that. Needs some practice to not miss cs while autoing as much as possible, but its more benefical than having to deal with a huge wave at your tower.
In the case you mentioned, say you are lvl 5 Ryze. If the melee would die from 1 tower shot, rank 3 Q+auto should kill it too. Then the tower will be attacking the full health melee minions twice before you have to attack it, so you can get 1-2 autos in on the full health ranged minions. Use Q to kill the half health ranged minion, while using your autos to clear the rest. If executed correctly you should get all the last hits with just using 2 qs.
As far as ganking goes, you just need to get some experience on what you can and can't gank. Say you are lvl 11 on blue side, just pushed out mid and see the enemy bot lane pushed to their tower, both at half health, being pressured by your bot lane. You go down river and can come from behind themm ideally bringing your jungler to get 2 easy kills. It requires experience on what you can gank and what you can't gank and you rarely know 100% if and where wards are, but you can make educated guesses. Roaming/ganking at proper times is also something I still have to work on.
Why is Abyssal Sceptor built over Lich Bane if Lich Bane gives mana on Ryze? (I've checked guides on every site and all of them recommend Abyssal, none Lich).
There are several reasons. While Lichbane gives some really good stats for Ryze (movespeed, mana, mr), it costs like 800 gold more than Abyssal. Abyssal also gives you almost twice the mr and only a bit less ap. Combine that with the fact that Ryze won't have a whole lot of AP for the LB proc and inbetween spamming spells with max cdr and moving around, he doesn't do much if any auto attacking mid-late game anyway. The -20 mr aura even after the nerf is simply more beneficial than the LB passive.
Many reasons Lichbane is bad: 1 - With your CDR maxed, you almost never have time to autoattack to make use of the proc. Your cooldowns are very low and your passive lets you cast them constantly, each spell making the next come up more quickly. Your AS is so low that you can't weave in autos into your spell chain without sacrificing cast time for it. The little time you do have in between spells you should be using to reposition. 2 - you aren't building truckoads of AP to use on Lichbane. Just because it has mana on it doesn't make it good - it's not exactly efficient on mana (You could get the same AP & Mana for half the cost if you wanted to.) 3 - MR Shred is going to increase your damage significantly. Mana isn't your only damage stat, you do magic damage and the shred additionally helps your allies. Additionally, your spells are short range such that even after the Abyssal nerf, unless you're casting spells at the edge of your range, you will have the enemies in your aura range. 4 - Due to all of the factors above, Lichbane is more expensive for less gain.
Really... what makes you think it's a good item for Ryze? You aren't going to spend that much money on mediocre amount of mana+80 AP. If you were, you might as well be stacking multiple AA staves or RoAs.
im kinda new so can someone explain why they get catalyst first rather then the tear?
i tend to get boot>tear>roa>sorc>abyss>frozen heart>arch>idk
also why did the op get various tier 2 items for the mid game for 7k gold rather than going for the regular build. Does Spell vamp really help all that much?
On October 09 2012 14:30 Mystic_Starcraft wrote: im kinda new so can someone explain why they get catalyst first rather then the tear?
i tend to get boot>tear>roa>sorc>abyss>frozen heart>arch>idk
also why did the op get various tier 2 items for the mid game for 7k gold rather than going for the regular build. Does Spell vamp really help all that much?
Catalyst first if you need the survivability, although i'd rather just get the red crystal then tear then finish catalyst if I need the survivability.
On October 09 2012 14:30 Mystic_Starcraft wrote: im kinda new so can someone explain why they get catalyst first rather then the tear?
i tend to get boot>tear>roa>sorc>abyss>frozen heart>arch>idk
also why did the op get various tier 2 items for the mid game for 7k gold rather than going for the regular build. Does Spell vamp really help all that much?
Catalyst in lane >>>> Tear in lane. I explained that in the op, 75% of the time catalyst first is still true. I want to play aggressive from 6 onwards.
Regarding the build in the op, recently I've been leaning a bit more towards going RoA, just because I farm better than before. More gold available makes the other items come faster. I can't stand not having cdr though and spellvamp is really nice on Ryze. I feel wota is a bit underrated after it's nerfs. It is a lot worse then before, but now you never see it anymore.
WotA's just situational now. It's gone from being "buy this even if you're the only one on the team who will benefit from it, because it's so broken" to "buy this if someone else on the team will benefit from it". Of course, that means you never get to see it in solo queue any more except on people with Revolver as a core item.
On September 16 2012 02:32 Djin)ftw( wrote: Hello, I recently started playing ranked games and I have a couple of questions but I dont want to make a thread for it so I'll ask in the threads I think are most appropriate.
When I play solo mid with Ryze I have a hard time last hitting against heroes like Ahri or Gragas. They spam their AOE spells to kill the 3 creeps in the back really fast, auto attack a bit and after 2 or 3 waves I'm at my tower where it is much harder for me to lasthit. Now I thought a bit about it, but searching for "laning" and "control wave" didnt help, sorry.
So what do you do in this case? Skill e earlier? Try to harass more? Use more auto attacks? Just deal with last hitting under the tower (any tips?)
Also I'm curious as to when you should try to get neutral creeps in addition to your waves. I usually try to get the wraiths as soon as my lane is clear and the jungler is not in sight, but I'm not sure if this is correct play.
you will just have to lasthit under tower as ryze early. theres no way around it. something that can help with this, is in your masteries take 2/2 in the creep damage skill and 1 pt in the AD one. this will make it much easier to last hit under tower early and the 3 ap from the other talent is pretty insignificant
also, while it sucks to get pushed in it can also be a good thing. ryze is one of the easiest mids to gank for so if they keep shoving your jungler will most likely come
So I've been trying a new style of ryze. Basically a hybrid all around carry. The core two items are iceborne gauntlet and manamune and I've generally been supplementing these with boots of celerity with furor, twin shadows, banshee's veil and mikael's crucible. 9/0/21 masteries.
What does it do?
you are extremely tanky, fast and have great sustain. Your damage is hybrid and so hard to itemise against. You have a very strong initiation (wraiths>ult>Q>AA slow>W>AA slow), great burst and sustained damage. your single target dueling and teamfight AOE are both spectacular
Why boots of celerity?: they now give a slow resist in addition to bonus movespeed. The main problem with ryze is he's quite kitable by a lot of longer ranged champs, both ad and ap. these stop that being particularly effective.
Why manamune not archangels: Ryze has to be in AA range to do anything, and your AA's are critical due to iceborne anyway. You don't get a lot out of AP scaling and most importantly, the shield from seraph's is plain crap compared to 300+ on hit magic damage from an endgame muramana. Manamune also gives you a lot of clearing and pushing power.
Give it a try. You can start sheen for lane dominance (funny on ryze) or start tear for a stronger midgame. Grab a negatron cloak early if being bullied and go ahead with your regular build.
9/0/21 is what I have been going for too, seems to be the best.
I really like muramana, not too fond of the gauntlet right now. I don't have a whole lot of time to play right now, but I got 2 Ryze games in. I went for Sorcs+the new haunting guise upgrade+manamune with frozen heart and banshees as defensive items.
I gotta do some math on how good the new haunting guise actually is for Ryze. I want to update this thread soon-ish, but am missing experience with the new items.
Ryze was already going 9-0-21 previously anyway, 6% cdr so he can reach 40% from maxed Q and blue buff/FH, some bonus xp or ambiant gold, reduced cd on flash which is so critical on his godlike gank assisting... now that Utility's stronger and Offense weaker that's a no-brainer.
Yup, just started playing Ryze again. Muramana pretty insane. I'm not sure how to build him anymore though really. Before he was all mana, then they nerfed him and you built AP/mana, but now with muramana I think straight mana might be better again?
On December 07 2012 03:45 Alaric wrote: Ryze was already going 9-0-21 previously anyway, 6% cdr so he can reach 40% from maxed Q and blue buff/FH, some bonus xp or ambiant gold, reduced cd on flash which is so critical on his godlike gank assisting... now that Utility's stronger and Offense weaker that's a no-brainer.
Not always, iirc Alex Ich used 0/9/21, jiji 0/21/9. I mostly used 9/21/0.
Defense is looking pretty tempting right now too, but Utility is probably the better choice.
On December 07 2012 07:28 nosliw wrote: Isn't E also single target for muramana calculation?
I don't believe so. E interacts with Spell Vamp/slows as though it were AoE, so it would be surprising if it acted like a single target spell for Muramana.
SoS isn't bad on ryze but I always find other things that I want to spend points on in utility tree, and the %mpen is too good to pass up in the offense tree.
What do people think about going barrier/flash instead of ignite/flash on ryze?
edit:
I'm starting to like Muramana over Arch Angels, and IBG over FH. Anyone else have same thoughts?
Yeah, doing the math out: Muramana adds an extra 18% (well, more like 17.3%) of your max mana to your QWEQ combo when you're at full mana, 9% if you're at half mana Seraph's adds an extra 3% of your max mana as AP, your QWEQ combo has a 1.75 AP ratio, so that's like adding 3*1.75=5.25% of your max mana to your combo. So you're going to be doing more damage with muramana pretty much all the time, and muramana costs less gold to boot. Seraph's has a nice shield though, so maybe it's worth trading the additional damage for the shield? Probably depends on the team comps.
Also, you get like 170+ AD once you get the muramana, so your autoattacks actually hurt (+ they get the muramana passive), but it's kind of hard to fit in autos into your combo. Unfortunately.
On December 08 2012 01:35 nosliw wrote: I'm starting to like Muramana over Arch Angels, and IBG over FH. Anyone else have same thoughts?
Ryze has one of the lowest base ADs in the game. You're paying a lot just for the IBG passive since the Sheen adds nothing in teamfights
If you wanted to do a RoA-less build, maybe Tear -> Sheen for W+AA harass early, to turn into IBG later, but RoA still feel core.
So there's no good place to fit in Sheen between Tear/Cata and Boots. FH is not fantastic, but there really isn't anything wrong with just keeping just a Glacial and not upgrading. Perhaps when you have way too much money, then IBG vs FH isn't about money or power curve but just item usefulness, but I haven't had a game go that far yet
On December 08 2012 01:35 nosliw wrote: I'm starting to like Muramana over Arch Angels, and IBG over FH. Anyone else have same thoughts?
Ryze has one of the lowest base ADs in the game. You're paying a lot just for the IBG passive since the Sheen adds nothing in teamfights
If you wanted to do a RoA-less build, maybe Tear -> Sheen for W+AA harass early, to turn into IBG later, but RoA still feel core.
So there's no good place to fit in Sheen between Tear/Cata and Boots. FH is not fantastic, but there really isn't anything wrong with just keeping just a Glacial and not upgrading. Perhaps when you have way too much money, then IBG vs FH isn't about money or power curve but just item usefulness, but I haven't had a game go that far yet
IBG is a good option if someone else on your team got a FH already. (In s2 I'd just build a second FH anyway because glacial is too good on ryze) I usually sit on a glacial for a long time, in any case, unless our team needs the FH aura and no one else got glacial already.
On December 08 2012 01:07 Ghost-z wrote: Once Ryze has over 2000 mana late game that's 5hp/5 per point spent for a total of 15hp/p so it's definitely cost effective in that sense.
2k?? i usually have ~4k late game. although i havent been able to play s3 patch yet if your numbers are right with the extra 1k bonus from the manmune thing thats about 5k which would put you ~35hp/5 plus the extra damage from the mana, seems op.
On December 08 2012 01:07 Ghost-z wrote: Once Ryze has over 2000 mana late game that's 5hp/5 per point spent for a total of 15hp/p so it's definitely cost effective in that sense.
2k?? i usually have ~4k late game. although i havent been able to play s3 patch yet if your numbers are right with the extra 1k bonus from the manmune thing thats about 5k which would put you ~35hp/5 plus the extra damage from the mana, seems op.
The 1k muramana is basically rolling up the tear charges into flat mana, you're not going to be getting more mana than prepatch unless you buy a second tear after you transform the first
and hp5 is a good stat while laning but worse lategame, since it's not going to help you win teamfights much. Your spellvamp should be doing the majority of your lategame sustain anyway.
On December 08 2012 01:07 Ghost-z wrote: Once Ryze has over 2000 mana late game that's 5hp/5 per point spent for a total of 15hp/p so it's definitely cost effective in that sense.
2k?? i usually have ~4k late game. although i havent been able to play s3 patch yet if your numbers are right with the extra 1k bonus from the manmune thing thats about 5k which would put you ~35hp/5 plus the extra damage from the mana, seems op.
The 1k muramana is basically rolling up the tear charges into flat mana, you're not going to be getting more mana than prepatch unless you buy a second tear after you transform the first
and hp5 is a good stat while laning but worse lategame, since it's not going to help you win teamfights much. Your spellvamp should be doing the majority of your lategame sustain anyway.
ah yea your right, damn i was hoping to get a ton more mana with that thing,yeah late game the spellvamp from the ulti is pretty much constant. although i cant wait to see how it affects the feel of the laning phase, maybe ill start running mana yellows.
i usually build ryze as a hybrid megafarmed split pusher taking flash and teleport as my summoners. i play a very passive solo topp lane farming until i reach a point in the gamne where i can 1on1 any champion on the enemy team. i then go on to split push by pushing lanes hard by using my spells to kill the creeps. if they try to stop ure push with 1 champion kill them as u should be able to 1on1 anybody on the enmy team at this point if they send 2 teleport to a lane that u can push uintil they go there then u should defend until teleport is ready. sooner or later you will destroy there turrets whihc will ultimately lead into a significant advantage for ure team in the early mid game whihc will ultimately result in an item advantage for a substantial amount. hope i could help gg wp lahara
On December 08 2012 07:09 lahara wrote: i usually build ryze as a hybrid megafarmed split pusher taking flash and teleport as my summoners. i play a very passive solo topp lane farming until i reach a point in the gamne where i can 1on1 any champion on the enemy team. i then go on to split push by pushing lanes hard by using my spells to kill the creeps. if they try to stop ure push with 1 champion kill them as u should be able to 1on1 anybody on the enmy team at this point if they send 2 teleport to a lane that u can push uintil they go there then u should defend until teleport is ready. sooner or later you will destroy there turrets whihc will ultimately lead into a significant advantage for ure team in the early mid game whihc will ultimately result in an item advantage for a substantial amount. hope i could help gg wp lahara
So why don't you just get destroyed top lane by things like olaf and irelia with ganks?
Ryze has no escapes, and should just get camped by their jungler all day >.<.
Plus alot of top laners could probably just zone him.
On December 08 2012 07:09 lahara wrote: i usually build ryze as a hybrid megafarmed split pusher taking flash and teleport as my summoners. i play a very passive solo topp lane farming until i reach a point in the gamne where i can 1on1 any champion on the enemy team. i then go on to split push by pushing lanes hard by using my spells to kill the creeps. if they try to stop ure push with 1 champion kill them as u should be able to 1on1 anybody on the enmy team at this point if they send 2 teleport to a lane that u can push uintil they go there then u should defend until teleport is ready. sooner or later you will destroy there turrets whihc will ultimately lead into a significant advantage for ure team in the early mid game whihc will ultimately result in an item advantage for a substantial amount. hope i could help gg wp lahara
So why don't you just get destroyed top lane by things like olaf and irelia with ganks?
Ryze has no escapes, and should just get camped by their jungler all day >.<.
Plus alot of top laners could probably just zone him.
well i usually start with boots and 3 pots so i hjave movement sped against ganks, also i zone cause i range most melee champions when i play ryze. olaf is not a probelem till he hits lvl 6 or flashes to get the slow on his axe onto ryze so i just counter initiate with flash or run wiht my boots. lategame u should use teleport a lot to do split pushing. hope i could help gg wp lahara
On December 08 2012 04:57 nosliw wrote: Yeah, I still open tear + cata. Now the question is do I up grade RoA first or manamune first?
I see no reason to get manamune before tear is (nearly) fully charged. Well, you get mana for auto attacking, but you can still charge the tear without using mana, although for some reason it seemed trickier with this patch.
On December 08 2012 04:57 nosliw wrote: Yeah, I still open tear + cata. Now the question is do I up grade RoA first or manamune first?
I see no reason to get manamune before tear is (nearly) fully charged. Well, you get mana for auto attacking, but you can still charge the tear without using mana, although for some reason it seemed trickier with this patch.
I kind of dig the buffed banshees right now.
I've been going tear/cata/roa or bv (depends how scary their ap is) then FH, muramana, tear, aa, void.
Getting tier 1 boots when I feel i need the movespeed,and tier 2 boots when I back with a nice amount of gold for them, after BV/Roa. I get mercs or sorcs based on, once again, how scary their ap is.
I get muramana pretty much as soon as the tear is stacked, which is usually after FH for me.
Also, if you just sit mid and farm tear all game its just free wins lategame as Ryze, as your strength just keeps going up and up.... around 35 min mark I already felt like a god that couldn't die and who did stupid damage, if I actually got seraphs and void done...
It's like every item gives you a power bump like deathcap, from muramana onwards.
Edit:Im 9/0/21 for the movespeed and CDR, as well as pickpocket, and im running armor/mr/magicpen/movespeed quints, gives you 40% cdr with FH.
Also, 750 damage Q's without even a full AA and no void.
How does his E work with furor boots? Does he gain the movement speed from hitting E? I've never really paid attention when I was using him. I really like muramana on him, but I don't get that until tear is fully stacked, which seems to take longer with the 3 second cooldown. I like going for an early haunting guise as well, since liandrys is a really nice upgrade
On December 08 2012 07:09 lahara wrote: i usually build ryze as a hybrid megafarmed split pusher taking flash and teleport as my summoners. i play a very passive solo topp lane farming until i reach a point in the gamne where i can 1on1 any champion on the enemy team. i then go on to split push by pushing lanes hard by using my spells to kill the creeps. if they try to stop ure push with 1 champion kill them as u should be able to 1on1 anybody on the enmy team at this point if they send 2 teleport to a lane that u can push uintil they go there then u should defend until teleport is ready. sooner or later you will destroy there turrets whihc will ultimately lead into a significant advantage for ure team in the early mid game whihc will ultimately result in an item advantage for a substantial amount. hope i could help gg wp lahara
So why don't you just get destroyed top lane by things like olaf and irelia with ganks?
Ryze has no escapes, and should just get camped by their jungler all day >.<.
Plus alot of top laners could probably just zone him.
well i usually start with boots and 3 pots so i hjave movement sped against ganks, also i zone cause i range most melee champions when i play ryze. olaf is not a probelem till he hits lvl 6 or flashes to get the slow on his axe onto ryze so i just counter initiate with flash or run wiht my boots. lategame u should use teleport a lot to do split pushing. hope i could help gg wp lahara
olaf's Q has a range of 1000, that's 300+ on anything ryze has. Olaf should never have to flash to land an axe. Most olafs run ghost anyway. Olaf's the one that zones ryze with terror axes. Max Q first, run 7 points into utility for more axes. Merc treads -> Spirit Visage. Every time ryze autos something or uses an ability, axe to the face.
So what would be the best build for ryze now out of all these items?
Mercs / Sorcs Tear - muramana / seraphs Cata - ROA Glacial - FH / IBG (is sheen worth it for ryze?) I am guessing WOTA is still core And void / banshees / abyssal for last item
On December 09 2012 04:13 GeneralStan wrote: I really like the archangels upgrade. I hardly find time to right click with ryze anyway, and that 1000 damage shield in a team fight is just lulzy
the amazing thing about muramana is not the additional ad you get but that 6% of your mana is converted to your Q+W, increased Autoattack damage is just a bonus,. But yeah why not just go both items tear stacking op^^
I can see why you would not like IGB because you can use Q as often as you can auto in a team fight. But I'm am not sure of Banshee's over RoA because the health + mana difference is huge. 300/300 vs 450/450 + 20/20 * 10 ticks.
On December 09 2012 10:24 GeneralStan wrote: I didn't read that you could apply muramana's toggle to single target spells. That's fucking nuts. I guess I know what i'm trying next time
In the best case scenario, that item almost doubles Ryze's mana scaling lol.
I think some people suggested that Muramana needs a Ryze-specific nerf (kind of like Cassiopeia's E and Rylai's).
I feel like there's entirely too many good items for Ryze these days. Muramana and Iceborn gauntlet are awesome, but you have to sacrifice other items in the process. I also wish Muramune's icon was more obvious- a color change would be nice. It is really annoying to have to look at the middle of the screen to see if its on or not.
Sort of accidentally started maining Ryze this season, this is how my build goes: Mana +2 Pots, Tear, Cata, Boots, Glacial, RoA, (Muramana if Tear stacked), Cata, (Muramana if Tear stacked), FH, BV, Void Staff. Upgrade Boots accordingly, more often than not I end up using Merc Treads these days. I started liking Furor, but I will play around with new swifties boots and the alacrity enchantment.
i think mana crystal+2 pots in a terrible build start tbh. Played against it 3 times now and it basically doesn't matter who you play but I only needed to trade 2-3 times evenly and he was already bullied out of lane. Without the more common flask+4+1 pots start now your sustain will be so inferior, especially with such a weak early champ like ryze.
Flask+pots and Flask+ward+pots openings are the reason why Ryze is so strong now. He has a pretty bad early game, and an awful time csing at tower without blowing through his mana. Now flask openings completely alleviate this and he's suddenly immovable from lane early phase.
Personally I find starting flask super underwhelming. If you start mana crystal first, it is so easy to get a tear on your back. Or a catalyst, since the combine cost is reduced. Though I guess they made the stats on catalyst a lot worse.. hm.
On December 20 2012 04:12 zer0das wrote: Personally I find starting flask super underwhelming. If you start mana crystal first, it is so easy to get a tear on your back. Or a catalyst, since the combine cost is reduced. Though I guess they made the stats on catalyst a lot worse.. hm.
It might be the scrubelo I am currently playing in, but on Ryze, I agree. I would rather have 2 more Qs, farm 300 gold and possibly use my first teleport for straight going to lane after buying tear, because the sooner you have Muramana, the better, at least on my page of the book.
Has anyone tried Iceborn Gauntlet on Ryze ? I seems to me that it could add some good CC to him and it builds directly from Glacial Shroud and since Frozen Heart aura is unique, it could be a waste if someone on your team already gets it.
I still think Frozen Heart is better, I mean when are you ever going to be auto attacking with Ryze anyway? You're Q is going to be up all the time and if you have downtime you should be repositioning yourself in team fights rather then auto attacking.
Flask + wards/pots > tear > cata > BV or Glacial > Manamura > Frozen Heart is basically how I end up building my Ryze. I'll put Boots1 either after tear or cata depending mainly on my jungler and the enemy jungler. Boots 2 I get after Manamura unless my tear stacking is sucking then I do it after Glacial.
On December 20 2012 07:48 Phrost wrote: oh wow, muramana effects his Q/W? Well... I might be getting that more often...
I was building tear into regular ryze stuff till it was maxed then turned it into muramana.
an extra like 250 damage on his Q and W is really obnoxious truthfully
yeah that sounds awesome! It's not like he needs mana at that point anyway, the extra mana burned is negligible.
the mana cost is not quite negligible, it adds a 3%of current mana cost to your spells and autoattacks, not a flat rate, so it consumes your mana quite fast, and when you have in the thousands of total mana, mana regen (which is flat regen without chalice) is pretty small.
also, if you forget to toggle it off and autoattack creeps for awhile, you will find yourself OOM really quickly.
If you go the muramana route I highly recommend a crucible as well (my standard build is furor sorcs/mura/iceborn/cruci/tank), it makes him quite terrifying, at max mana his buffed autos can be doing 350+ physical and 200+ magic damage and his spells melt people just as quickly, plus you get a load of powerful utility in the slows from iceborn and heal/cleanse from cruci. plus you can burn everything and oom yourself then be back at 50% mana in thirty seconds or so.
I still think Frozen Heart is better, I mean when are you ever going to be auto attacking with Ryze anyway? You're Q is going to be up all the time and if you have downtime you should be repositioning yourself in team fights rather then auto attacking.
I dunno, since manamune is core on him you're getting over 2000 gold worth of AD (manamune and one other mana item gets you around 55 ad, before being fully stacked). Combined with a sheen buff slotting in an AA every 2-3 seconds can be pretty damn nasty especially when dueling AP or AD carries.
In regards to openings, I prefer flask openers. When you start with crystal+2pots, someone with flask, 5 pots and a ward can just bully you around, force you to back very early.
On December 20 2012 11:05 nosliw wrote: RoA no longer core on him?
Flask makes the Catalyst a little bit redundant, it's still good though. New Banshees is quite good too. So there is a bit less reason to go RoA, it's still really good though. Right now I'd say the only real core item is the Manamune (no idea how to spell the upgrade)
I kind of wanna update the op soonish, but then again there will probably be more pre-season balancing. I'm not sure if they want the Manamune Ryze to stay that way.
On December 20 2012 11:39 Thereisnosaurus wrote: I dunno, since manamune is core on him you're getting over 2000 gold worth of AD (manamune and one other mana item gets you around 55 ad, before being fully stacked). Combined with a sheen buff slotting in an AA every 2-3 seconds can be pretty damn nasty especially when dueling AP or AD carries.
Sheen scales off base AD though, so even though the free AD you get makes you want to AA more, Sheen itself doesn't become better. Sure, you can fit in autos between spell rotations, but IBG only adds 130 damage onto that.
You already do so much damage with Muramane I'd rather just be even tankier and unkillable. Of course if someone else on the team is picking up a FH then maybe Iceborne becomes more attractive.
I dunno. Getting a Frozen Fist on Ryze feels like getting a Lichbane on Cassiopeia. Yes, you can generate the proc on cooldown every time. But that doesn't mean that you should be autoattacking at all. Also, If you REALLY wanted to slow people, Rylais would be much more effective at accomplishing that, and that isn't exactly favored on Ryze either. 3900 gold to have a shitty sheen proc
And BTW, Frozen Heart's additional CDR puts you at 30% with no other items or masteries. 25% is a pretty underwhelming, comparitively, when Ryze is such a CDR-whore. You NEED to max CDR on him. Non-optional. As-is, it's a little awkward getting the last 6-10% without just popping blue elixirs or whoring bluebuff longer than you REALLY need it (no more CDR from defense tree =( With the old masteries, once I finished FH, I'd forego blue entirely, passing it off to whoever else on my team uses it effectively.
26% CDR (assuming 1/4 on cdr mastery - butcher is too useful for someone who sucks at autos but needs to auto to CS early game) leaves you short of being able to blue elixir to cap CDR. Seems really awkward.
I tried by myself the gauntlet, it happends that it's not perfect indeed. When you already have to move between you Qs, you don't have much time to auto, you need to do something like EWQ to have some free time and auto... I like it to chase and clear waves but in the end some more resist from Frozen Heart may be useful.
On December 23 2012 08:00 -Zoda- wrote: I tried by myself the gauntlet, it happends that it's not perfect indeed. When you already have to move between you Qs, you don't have much time to auto, you need to do something like EWQ to have some free time and auto... I like it to chase and clear waves but in the end some more resist from Frozen Heart may be useful.
Yeah i think its better to go fh anyway. with 9/0/21 masteries, ur q and fh you'll have 40% cdr. Plus it helps make the enemy adc slightly less deadly.
Alright, made some updates to the op with what I know so far from Season 3. I still don't really have a whole lot of time to play and try out stuff. Has anyone tried Twin Shadows on Ryze?
On December 29 2012 02:35 h3r1n6 wrote: Alright, made some updates to the op with what I know so far from Season 3. I still don't really have a whole lot of time to play and try out stuff. Has anyone tried Twin Shadows on Ryze?
Tried it, didn't like it. The buildup is awkward, and that was my main complaint. For my first 700g, I usually want to get a tear, and if I am going to reach 765 gold after I got that, more often than not I would rather farm till I get Mana+Ruby instead of Kage's. The one time I did try it, it ended up working out really well though. I was duoing with a Jarvan jungle who happened to come mid every time the item was off cooldown, enabling his EQ and my W follow up. Afterwards, we would usually roam, and the extra MS comes in really handy. If you get Twin Shadows, 21 in utility, MS quints and boots2 with Alacrity, you are going to outrun basically everyone, but yeah. I still don't think it's much of a good item for him, considering Ryze doesn't really have the slots for another 2k gold item (assuming you are going to sit on boots, tear, cata, glacial before upgrading cata).
BTW, you were obviously right about the starting item discussion. Flask is MUCH, MUCH superior to mana crystal, and I do see that now.
Oh, some stuff for your OP: you linked the Twin Shadows Icon once, but you're actually discussing Abyssal. Also, I think you should add that most of the time, it is a really good idea to get Glacial before upgrading your cata.
True, I guess, but it still gives you the %health heal and semi-cleanse, and MR for extra tankiness.
I just always wanted to try Chalice on Ryze but couldn't convince myself to use Athene's because it's more AP oriented, and Crucible with its Mana and (sort of) tanky on-use seems like a decent fit.
Crucible is an okay 6th item. Sometimes I'm forced to get a QSS early cause I've been getting focused a lot ever since the manamune buff. Good replacement for it late game. End up with boots, archangels, roa, manamune, FH, and crucible.
Hey I found that on league wiki, a guy calculating damage with Muramana or Seraph's. So basically, Muramana deals more damage on isolated targets, but with ult's AoE and E's bounces, you can probably deal more damage in teamfights. All of that not taking in account the fact that Seraph's gives you a shield and that Muramana's damage decreases over time because it's based on current mana.
I don't trust other people's math when I can't see it, but I am too lazy to make my own spreadsheet right now. The only thing I can say right now is that Manamune is 600 gold cheaper.
On January 07 2013 11:05 -Zoda- wrote: Hey I found that on league wiki, a guy calculating damage with Muramana or Seraph's. So basically, Muramana deals more damage on isolated targets, but with ult's AoE and E's bounces, you can probably deal more damage in teamfights. All of that not taking in account the fact that Seraph's gives you a shield and that Muramana's damage decreases over time because it's based on current mana.
While it is true what you are saying, playing Ryze in order to maximize AoE damage seems to be the wrong approach. In order to fully utilize his ultimate, people would have to clump up and you had to actually be in range. I'd also rather have Annie, Brand or Cass in a situation like that. Especially since the release of Muramana, Ryze really lives up to his title, the rogue mage. Getting Muramana does not only mean a much smoother buildup (something you will crave if you tend to build RoA early), and using your tear basically RIGHT when it's stacked (usually that's the case roundabout when you have Tear/RoA/Glacial/Boots2), but it also means that if you ever catch someone off guard with a W, they are going to lose 50% HP. Getting Muramana means that if their ADC positions poorly, you can take him out within the duration of a single Rune Prison.
I have tried both and there are situations (you're by far the most fed on your team, everyone focusses you, lots of disables) where Seraph's is a decent choice, but as of now, I got Muramana 24/25 games this season and still think it's the reason Ryze is currently broken.
Oh, also, the dude's calculating his shit with an actual DPS rotation, something you will rarely get off in a teamfight. QWQEQ doesn't happen quite as much as QEWQ+Autoattack, a scenario which favors Muramana, too.
On January 07 2013 22:25 sylverfyre wrote: Also, muramana helps shores up one of Ryze's other big weaknesses - that he does very little damage to towers.
Not sure if that is an actual argument for getting it, though. You usually get it after spending about 5000 gold on other items, and then another 1400 on Muramana itself. At this point in the game, you should not be able to push turrets by yourself uncontested - usually, you will push as 5 after teamfights. I LIKE being able to deal some damage to turrets while my team is desperately diving for their Janna who survived the last teamfight, so I guess there's some value to being able to kill turrets on your own, but really, it's just icing on the cake.
Oh, and Muramana incentivizes auto attacking, so against teams with lots of physical threats, I have had great success combining it with Iceborn Gauntlet, I know they don't actually synergyze together (other than the mana Iceborn Gauntlets gives), but the armor is neat against certain teams and the slow, especially when combined with Furor boots, is sooooo good. I'm really amazed by how different my Ryze builds are each and every game, and I'm not sure if that is relative inexperience (I started playing him more seriously this season as opposed to counterpick only material) or the fact there's LOTS of stuff that works on him these days.
On January 07 2013 22:25 sylverfyre wrote: Also, muramana helps shores up one of Ryze's other big weaknesses - that he does very little damage to towers.
Not sure if that is an actual argument for getting it, though. You usually get it after spending about 5000 gold on other items, and then another 1400 on Muramana itself. At this point in the game, you should not be able to push turrets by yourself uncontested - usually, you will push as 5 after teamfights. I LIKE being able to deal some damage to turrets while my team is desperately diving for their Janna who survived the last teamfight, so I guess there's some value to being able to kill turrets on your own, but really, it's just icing on the cake.
Oh, and Muramana incentivizes auto attacking, so against teams with lots of physical threats, I have had great success combining it with Iceborn Gauntlet, I know they don't actually synergyze together (other than the mana Iceborn Gauntlets gives), but the armor is neat against certain teams and the slow, especially when combined with Furor boots, is sooooo good. I'm really amazed by how different my Ryze builds are each and every game, and I'm not sure if that is relative inexperience (I started playing him more seriously this season as opposed to counterpick only material) or the fact there's LOTS of stuff that works on him these days.
Lots of stuff seems to be the case - I find that's the case with a lot of AP picks actually, not a single build for every game. I like it. It's especially cool for Ryze, who was always very rigid in build previously.
On January 07 2013 22:25 sylverfyre wrote: Also, muramana helps shores up one of Ryze's other big weaknesses - that he does very little damage to towers.
Not sure if that is an actual argument for getting it, though. You usually get it after spending about 5000 gold on other items, and then another 1400 on Muramana itself. At this point in the game, you should not be able to push turrets by yourself uncontested - usually, you will push as 5 after teamfights. I LIKE being able to deal some damage to turrets while my team is desperately diving for their Janna who survived the last teamfight, so I guess there's some value to being able to kill turrets on your own, but really, it's just icing on the cake.
Oh, and Muramana incentivizes auto attacking, so against teams with lots of physical threats, I have had great success combining it with Iceborn Gauntlet, I know they don't actually synergyze together (other than the mana Iceborn Gauntlets gives), but the armor is neat against certain teams and the slow, especially when combined with Furor boots, is sooooo good. I'm really amazed by how different my Ryze builds are each and every game, and I'm not sure if that is relative inexperience (I started playing him more seriously this season as opposed to counterpick only material) or the fact there's LOTS of stuff that works on him these days.
Nah, it's just a bit more icing on an already delicious muramana cake.
I still don't see how IBG can ever replace Frozen Heart, though, vs. physical threats. Less CDR, no AS reduction aura, Less armor, minimal mana difference, and a sheenproc which you really can't take much advantage of... why wouldn't you go with FH against the physical threats?
On January 07 2013 22:25 sylverfyre wrote: Also, muramana helps shores up one of Ryze's other big weaknesses - that he does very little damage to towers.
Not sure if that is an actual argument for getting it, though. You usually get it after spending about 5000 gold on other items, and then another 1400 on Muramana itself. At this point in the game, you should not be able to push turrets by yourself uncontested - usually, you will push as 5 after teamfights. I LIKE being able to deal some damage to turrets while my team is desperately diving for their Janna who survived the last teamfight, so I guess there's some value to being able to kill turrets on your own, but really, it's just icing on the cake.
Oh, and Muramana incentivizes auto attacking, so against teams with lots of physical threats, I have had great success combining it with Iceborn Gauntlet, I know they don't actually synergyze together (other than the mana Iceborn Gauntlets gives), but the armor is neat against certain teams and the slow, especially when combined with Furor boots, is sooooo good. I'm really amazed by how different my Ryze builds are each and every game, and I'm not sure if that is relative inexperience (I started playing him more seriously this season as opposed to counterpick only material) or the fact there's LOTS of stuff that works on him these days.
Nah, it's just a bit more icing on an already delicious muramana cake.
I still don't see how IBG can ever replace Frozen Heart, though, vs. physical threats. Less CDR, no AS reduction aura, Less armor, minimal mana difference, and a sheenproc which you really can't take much advantage of... why wouldn't you go with FH against the physical threats?
I would go FH with physical threats, I just tend to skip the BV in that case and don't mind the fact I'm overcapping CDR. Sometimes, I even go Boots/FH/BV/RoA/Muramana/IBG, just in case they're not stacking any MR or I feel the BV will benefit me more than WotA would. It all depends.
As I said on the top of the page, I find quite hard to autoattack in teamfights to use IBG's passive. The animation is quite slow and you already have to stop a bit to use Qs... get a good positioning while doing these 2 seems quite hard to me. It's very good for chasing people since your W has noticeable cooldown tho. So I would say that it's worth buying only if you are really ahead of enemy team. Othewise FH is a safer buy most of the time.
On January 08 2013 08:56 -Zoda- wrote: As I said on the top of the page, I find quite hard to autoattack in teamfights to use IBG's passive. The animation is quite slow and you already have to stop a bit to use Qs... get a good positioning while doing these 2 seems quite hard to me. It's very good for chasing people since your W has noticeable cooldown tho. So I would say that it's worth buying only if you are really ahead of enemy team. Othewise FH is a safer buy most of the time.
Still not sure why you have to decide on either, also not sure if it's you or me who's teamfighting wrong, but more often than not, I find myself pressured to burst as much ASAP, so I rather use QEWQ instead of QWQEQ, leaving plenty of room to autoattack.
It's not an item I would get every game, but I think it's really valid as a BV replacement against no AP teams.
Well yeah, I also do that quick combo, it leaves some time waiting for your Q. But once that is done I think most teamfights get more tricky and you have to be way more careful about your positioning imo. I'm far from being a high elo but at least that's what I felt. On the point of no AP team, well dunno, Frozen Heart gives more armor I think...
In the end I think that choice probably comes down to the simple rule : if you are ahead, buy offense (IBG), if your are behind buy defense (FH).
If you don't get BV and get IBG, you might then get Rylais for the Hp and become Ryze-slowbot.
On January 09 2013 06:15 -Zoda- wrote: Well yeah, I also do that quick combo, it leaves some time waiting for your Q. But once that is done I think most teamfights get more tricky and you have to be way more careful about your positioning imo. I'm far from being a high elo but at least that's what I felt. On the point of no AP team, well dunno, Frozen Heart gives more armor I think...
In the end I think that choice probably comes down to the simple rule : if you are ahead, buy offense (IBG), if your are behind buy defense (FH).
If you don't get BV and get IBG, you might then get Rylais for the Hp and become Ryze-slowbot.
Why do you feel that IBG and FH exclude each other? You can get the FH first against AD teams, then start working on another glacial. Besides from the CDR, you use all the stats, and it makes Muramana even better. The Rylai's argument is a very valid one though and I think it's a great item to get in certain situations if your and/or their teamcomp calls for it. I really, really like the mana and armor IBG provides, though.
Shit man, Ryze itemization is HARD. I just read Nyjacky'S Ryze guide on lolpro and it advertizes some weird-ass itembuilds I would never run because they leave you way too squishy, but I kind of see how Zhonya's might actually be an item to consider against these pure AD teams, rather than IBG or Rylai's.
Oh, another thing you should consider: if you are running 21 utility (which you most likely should be), FH provides enough CDR to cap you at 40 on it's own, while IBG leaves you at 36%. Might be placebo, but I think it's noticable in drawn out teamfights. Something just feels off without FH, which is why I get it every game without exception.
Yeah sure you can buy the two but it's a bit of a waste because you'll be overcapped CDR and it delays your damage items. If you get it at a 6th item if their AD carries are really fed maybe...
I actually had not thought about Liandry's on Ryze, it can indeed be quite strong in term of damage. And the passive is doubled if you do a WQ, that can hurt. His build order delays the Glacial Shroud by quite a lot though... I'm not sure about Zonyha's really, his AP ratios aren't that good to spend 1600 gold on that large rod...
Don't underestimate Ryzes AP ratios, they add up quickly. The problem is that AP leaves you too squishy more often than not, unless you are amazing with your positioning and your team plays accordingly.
Regarding Zhonyas, it is actually pretty good, depending on how well you can use the active. Regarding gauntlet and FH, buying a second CDR item is not very gold effective, I probably would choose Randuins or Zhonyas over IBG just for gold efficiency. My usual go-to second armor item is ga though anyway, which I would also prefer over the gauntlet in most cases. Depends on teamcomps and how the teamfights go though. There is no always optimal choice.
The last 4% cdr make a noticeable difference, just because Ryzes passive synergizes so well with CDR. You can always just get a blue pot for teamfights though, so I don't see that as an issue for IBG.
On January 09 2013 06:15 -Zoda- wrote: Well yeah, I also do that quick combo, it leaves some time waiting for your Q. But once that is done I think most teamfights get more tricky and you have to be way more careful about your positioning imo. I'm far from being a high elo but at least that's what I felt. On the point of no AP team, well dunno, Frozen Heart gives more armor I think...
In the end I think that choice probably comes down to the simple rule : if you are ahead, buy offense (IBG), if your are behind buy defense (FH).
If you don't get BV and get IBG, you might then get Rylais for the Hp and become Ryze-slowbot.
Why do you feel that IBG and FH exclude each other? You can get the FH first against AD teams, then start working on another glacial. Besides from the CDR, you use all the stats, and it makes Muramana even better. The Rylai's argument is a very valid one though and I think it's a great item to get in certain situations if your and/or their teamcomp calls for it. I really, really like the mana and armor IBG provides, though.
Shit man, Ryze itemization is HARD. I just read Nyjacky'S Ryze guide on lolpro and it advertizes some weird-ass itembuilds I would never run because they leave you way too squishy, but I kind of see how Zhonya's might actually be an item to consider against these pure AD teams, rather than IBG or Rylai's.
Oh, another thing you should consider: if you are running 21 utility (which you most likely should be), FH provides enough CDR to cap you at 40 on it's own, while IBG leaves you at 36%. Might be placebo, but I think it's noticable in drawn out teamfights. Something just feels off without FH, which is why I get it every game without exception.
So you're basically spending 700 gold on a chainmail, 800 on 2 mana crystals, getting NO CDR, just so you can have a 30% aoe ground slow on a still-shitty autoattack?
IBG is already not a cost-efficient item on champs who DO use all the stats - you already pay a lot for the spellblade-slow part. It's nonsense on Ryze, who is casting spells WAY too often and should be using the time he has in between spells to position himself. If you're bothering to throw autos, you're probably LOSING distance against your slowed target compared to if you were spell-and-moving instead.
If you want a slow so badly on Ryze that you're willing to throw away 3k gold, get Rylai's instead.
I can't think of a situation where you would need IBG instead of FH. FH brings more defensive utility. You have your W for CC, why would you the auto attack slow from IBG ? You will spam full cycle anyways and your R gives you movespeed ?
IBG gives more mana and ap and a sheen proc, so it's more damage if you've maxed out on cdr with it, and aoe slows are great for chasing people down once you've used your whole cycle and your spells start coming out more slowly.
Frozen heart definitely has better defensive utility, but attackspeed slows are usually only really useful against AD carries, which ryze shouldn't be fighting MOST of the time until a fight winds down or the AD gets out of position. Gauntlet is perfectly acceptable.
On January 10 2013 17:22 TwoToneTerran wrote: IBG gives more mana and ap and a sheen proc, so it's more damage if you've maxed out on cdr with it, and aoe slows are great for chasing people down once you've used your whole cycle and your spells start coming out more slowly.
Frozen heart definitely has better defensive utility, but attackspeed slows are usually only really useful against AD carries, which ryze shouldn't be fighting MOST of the time until a fight winds down or the AD gets out of position. Gauntlet is perfectly acceptable.
a ton of bruisers want AS and ryze has to kill them.
What do you guys think of this build? i based my build off of TPAtoyz who builds Wota
>RoA/tear/sorc boots >Glacial Shroud/Hextech Revolver >Muramana (can get before hextech if you're stacking tear like a baws) >Upgrade glacial into Iceborn gauntlet, or FH if you need more armor At some point along the way get a Negatron cloak >Upgrade to Wota >Upgrade negatron to Spirit Visage
Final build: [RoA][Sorc boots][Muramana][Iceborn Gauntlet][Wota][Spirit Visage] Now you have a lot of damage, and insane sustain for long fights. One combo will heal you to full HP. You can get void staff instead of Spirit Visage if you want more damage (or if you want more damage and they aren't building MR, get a 2nd tear and get archangel.)
Spirit Visage is just throwing money at CDR you don't need anymore. I'd rather get a Banshees or QSS from the Negatron. FH is better than gauntlet most of the time. The rest is standard Ryze, except for the WotA, which I'm kind of on the fence about. Kind of depends on the teamcomps wether it's a good buy.
Ok I wanted to keep Ryze IBG my personal secret sleeper OP, but you guys are underrating it too much that I just can't keep my silence anymore.
Here are some points you guys should consider:
1) IBG gives roughly 1.65 times the DPS of FH. I used the QWQEQRQWQEQ rotation to calculate this, but the figures are similar for QWEQ. This means better slot efficiency, damage wise. At the point of getting it, I usually have as other items Mura, RoA, nega, boots of choice, and wards, so the DPS slot efficiency is important.
2) Yes it gives 5% less CDR. With Mura you'd want to hog blue buff now anyway. (Yes I know you could give it away in S2.) Even if you don't, you could just get a blue pot like any other mid. Yes blue pot costs gold, and that's a tradeoff to analyse, not to just discard and say "nah IBG sucks cos it doesn't max your CDR". Consider the exaggeration that you wouldn't be saying that if IBG gave you 100000000 damage.
3) Yes, FH's AS debuff can be important. But also consider that FH is an item your solotop or jungler might be getting anyway. Other factors to note: you don't need the AS debuff as much if you're killing them so much faster, and also if you're permaslowing them with the proc anyway, which leads me to...
4) Ok so maybe you think you can't have time to get the proc off. (Personally I think you guys really should consider that there is always a tradeoff between repositioning and throwing off an important proc to kite for your ADC instead of straightoff saying "no there's just no time". Plus if you're aoe permaslowing them by 35%, you don't need to reposition as much anyway. Yes I know it's not that huge an aoe.)
But let's just assume the proc is useless for you. Might it be that the item is worth getting even if it doesn't have the proc? Some of your arguments really look like "item sucks cos proc sucks". Btw, you're paying roughly only 100 gold for the proc, *assuming* you use all the other stats, which you do as Ryze. Of course, the science of assigning gold values to stats isn't exact and is sometimes controversial esp where CDR is concerned, but it shouldn't be far off if you do the calculations yourself.
5) Yes you get less armor. It's a tradeoff. Remember that tankiness is important, but it isn't everything. No use being the last to survive in your team cos you were so tanky and constantly repositioning well, but weren't putting out enough damage to kill the opponents before they killed your team. Of course, the difference between IBG and FH shouldn't be as drastic as that most of the time, but it's still a thing to consider.
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In short, I'm not saying IBG > FH all the time, but I'm saying it's at least worth considering. If you even go through the points I made to see if I'm bullshitting or not, it was already worth the 10-15 minutes typing this post. Personally I'd get IBG by default now unless I think really need the FH, but you can go ahead and experiment with it.
For 1, can you back that number up with a spreadsheet or something? I really should make a proper Ryze spreadsheet for everyone to look stuff up, but it's hard and I'm lazy
I think you overvalue the slow a bit. Not that many champions, at least not the popular ones, are kiteable with that. It's the same thing why you don't get Rylais that often on Ryze. It's a different story for Ezreal for example, since he can apply the gauntlet proc from out of reach of any gapcloser.
On January 13 2013 00:51 h3r1n6 wrote: For 1, can you back that number up with a spreadsheet or something? I really should make a proper Ryze spreadsheet for everyone to look stuff up, but it's hard and I'm lazy
I think you overvalue the slow a bit. Not that many champions, at least not the popular ones, are kiteable with that. It's the same thing why you don't get Rylais that often on Ryze. It's a different story for Ezreal for example, since he can apply the gauntlet proc from out of reach of any gapcloser.
Perhaps I overvalue the slow. It's a judgement call. However,
1) I don't intend to mean that it will prevent gap closers. That I expect will be dealt with flash and whatever available cc. I usually use it as kiting after the gap closer, or to chase as the fight winds down.
2) Perhaps I sound like I place more emphasis on the proc than I really do. To me it's actually just an extra option. I'd still get IBG if tomorrow it suddenly doesn't have the proc anymore.
As for the numbers, I don't have a spreadsheet, cos I R REAL MEN and real men don't use spreadsheets (nah j/k I was lazy).
I did some shortform calculations with notepad, so I have to actually spend time to present it sort of nicely here. There are various factors such as number of E bounces, curr amount of mana you have plus how mura burns through it (assuming you have mura, but if you don't IBG is even better damage-wise). Here is a sample calculation and you can do a spreadsheet if you really want, but the numbers don't differ much so I personally don't bother.
Ryze skills: (M = max mana) Q 160 +0.4AP +0.065M dmg [+0.06M (~mura at max mana)] W 200 +0.6AP +0.045M dmg [+0.06M (~mura at max mana)] E 390 +1.05AP +0.03M dmg (assuming 3 bounces)
So if you have muramana and somehow don't burn through any mana while casting, IBG/FH dmg ratio is 738/408 = 1.78. As you have less and less current mana (and thus less bonus dmg from mura), the ratio increases (making IBG better). At the extreme end, you get 0 bonus dmg from mura (ie, perhaps you didn't go mura), then the ratio is 498/216 = 2.31.
You can actually see this from the fact that IBG gives 40AP and 100M more than FH. When you get mura (or AA), the influence of mana increases and the ratio tends towards 500/400 = 1.25, (e.g., if you could hypothetically get multiple muras/AAs). But as the influence of mana decreases, that 40 extra AP is actually a huge chunk of damage that goes into the same slot as the 400-500ish mana.
You can do the math for AA too. I believe it should be a total of [+0.171M (AA)] for that given rotation. You can try other rotations too. Personally I'm just satisfied knowing the rough figures of how much more damage IBG gives over FH and experimenting in-game.
Just as a countercheck in case you get down to doing it, here are some rough figures for various items damage (assuming mura), excluding whatever extra damage from passives (like mura's, AA's, penetrations) they give:
FH ~400 IBG ~700 Void, Abyssal, WotA, BV, MC, Ohm?! ~300 Mura ~1k AA ~1.2k RoA ~700 empty to ~1k full
My personal path (flexible according to game) would usually be tear -> RoA (with boots and nega somewhere in between) -> glacial -> mura -> IBG -> whatever else needed.
Another thing you should consider is that only one item slow per champion can be active, which means: if your opponent is already slowed by a Phage/Mallet/Triforce/Rylai's/Frozen Shard, your IBG is not going to procc. And at the point in the game you are considering getting it, it's highly unlikely your team isn't sporting at least one of these items. I'd also say it's a lot less likely to see someone building FH but have no of the other items on your team. I don't know, maybe it just doesn't fit my playstyle too much, but I have a hard time skipping FH.
Aww, I thought you factored in CDR and everything, that's not being a real man.
It looks alright as a more offensive choice than Frozen Heart and I added its picture to the op, but you claimed it as sleeper op. I don't really see that any more than Ryze being silly currently anyway. If you get through laning phase (easy with flask), you can just build 5 roas, mash qwer and do well.
On January 13 2013 03:18 Shiv. wrote: Another thing you should consider is that only one item slow per champion can be active, which means: if your opponent is already slowed by a Phage/Mallet/Triforce/Rylai's/Frozen Shard, your IBG is not going to procc. And at the point in the game you are considering getting it, it's highly unlikely your team isn't sporting at least one of these items. I'd also say it's a lot less likely to see someone building FH but have no of the other items on your team. I don't know, maybe it just doesn't fit my playstyle too much, but I have a hard time skipping FH.
As I said, to me the proc is a bonus nice-to-have. I'd get IBG even if it didn't have the proc.
On January 13 2013 03:34 h3r1n6 wrote: Aww, I thought you factored in CDR and everything, that's not being a real man.
It looks alright as a more offensive choice than Frozen Heart and I added its picture to the op, but you claimed it as sleeper op. I don't really see that any more than Ryze being silly currently anyway. If you get through laning phase (easy with flask), you can just build 5 roas, mash qwer and do well.
I don't need to factor in CDR cos I'm assuming you'd max it out some other way if you're getting IBG. I'm certainly not comparing an IBG Ryze 35% cdr with a FH Ryze 40% cdr. I'm comparing them at both 40%, such that Ryze can do the same rotations with the same timings. And yes I do believe Ryze is currently OP.
On January 13 2013 03:18 Shiv. wrote: Another thing you should consider is that only one item slow per champion can be active, which means: if your opponent is already slowed by a Phage/Mallet/Triforce/Rylai's/Frozen Shard, your IBG is not going to procc. And at the point in the game you are considering getting it, it's highly unlikely your team isn't sporting at least one of these items. I'd also say it's a lot less likely to see someone building FH but have no of the other items on your team. I don't know, maybe it just doesn't fit my playstyle too much, but I have a hard time skipping FH.
As I said, to me the proc is a bonus nice-to-have. I'd get IBG even if it didn't have the proc.
On January 13 2013 03:34 h3r1n6 wrote: Aww, I thought you factored in CDR and everything, that's not being a real man.
It looks alright as a more offensive choice than Frozen Heart and I added its picture to the op, but you claimed it as sleeper op. I don't really see that any more than Ryze being silly currently anyway. If you get through laning phase (easy with flask), you can just build 5 roas, mash qwer and do well.
I don't need to factor in CDR cos I'm assuming you'd max it out some other way if you're getting IBG. I'm certainly not comparing an IBG Ryze 35% cdr with a FH Ryze 40% cdr. I'm comparing them at both 40%, such that Ryze can do the same rotations with the same timings. And yes I do believe Ryze is currently OP.
That is like saying you compare BT and IE without accounting for the lifesteal BT offers, cause you're gonna grab a vamp scepter anyways, even if you go IE. You spend additional gold on capping CDR for a limited amount of time, especially if you finish IBG somewhat early. That's relevant.
I will do the math on my own, even though I realized I hate not having FH. And I also realize as long as I buy items that sort of work on Ryze, I shouldn't worry too much because honestly, there's a thousand things winning and losing me games before itemization.
Updated the op a bit in regards to starting items and added Warmogs. After the flask nerf, I think it is still decent and I'm still using it, but I can see it being skippable. Faerie charm opening is tempting, 520 gold till tear is nothing really. Alternatively, all consumables should be decent too. What to buy is mostly dependent on preference and match-up and how likely your support is going to ward for you early.
I started to really like Warmogs as a defensive choice for Ryze, partially just for the massive health regen boost.
It's the same idea when it's ryze vs akali. Stay the fuck away from her at lv 6 and try your best to out do her pre6. You should be able to trade evenly if you Q+AA everytime she Q's you. The good thing is that ryze is awesome at baiting because of his W, so you can guarantee your jungler a pretty solid gank once she turns lv 6.
Also her hitbox on Q is weird, so it can be easier or harder to dodge in certain situations. I get hit twice as much when I'm running down away from it than when I'm running up towards it. It seems like the hitbox is smaller on the inside of the crescent than the outside, but I'd need to do some tests to be sure and I don't own Diana.
On March 14 2013 08:16 Keniji wrote: how do you play vs diana as ryze.
i always lsoe this matchup with at least 1 death in laning 1v1.
laning vs cassiopeia? no problem. but vs diana no way.
Harass and deny her as much as possible before 6, although with consumables she can just ignore you and shove the wave, basically skipping her weak early game and forcing you to last hit at tower.
Get better at juking Q, if you run towards the left of her you often get it to just arc around you. Other than that, buy some MR and get your jungler since she is relatively easy to gank.
On March 14 2013 14:14 nosliw wrote: I just laned against swain and I cannot trade with him whatsoever. His QEW + auto out damamges my QWEQ.
You have to dodge the nevermove. If it hits, you eat the full Q which has its damage amplified by E and there's not many (if any) champions that can outtrade swain if he hits the nevermove.
You should get mercs against swain in order to reduce the strength of his slows though.
On March 14 2013 14:14 nosliw wrote: I just laned against swain and I cannot trade with him whatsoever. His QEW + auto out damamges my QWEQ.
You have to dodge the nevermove. If it hits, you eat the full Q which has its damage amplified by E and there's not many (if any) champions that can outtrade swain if he hits the nevermove.
You should get mercs against swain in order to reduce the strength of his slows though.
The secrets of trading with Swain: W has an 18 second cooldown at level 1. That gives you a large window to trade with him, and he's also open to ganks while Nevermove is on cooldown. After 6, just stay healthy, take advantage of any free hits he offers you, and all-in him when your jungler comes to gank. Rushing mercs isn't the best idea, nor is it necessary; just build what you'd normally build (I don't play Ryze; this is coming from the Swain side of the matchup).
I think the only one I've seen go Seraphs is Reginald and with all due respect, I wouldn't look at Reginald for build advice. Maybe I need to watch more matches.
Anyway, while the shield and ap are nice, Muramana gives much more burst, which is why I pretty much always buy it.
On March 15 2013 03:41 AsnSensation wrote: pretty sure almost everyone goes muramana, only one korean at the recent IEM went seraphs which surprised the casters afair.
Yea, I almost always go Muramana, but it does drain mana if you don't manage it.
On March 15 2013 07:06 h3r1n6 wrote: I think the only one I've seen go Seraphs is Reginald and with all due respect, I wouldn't look at Reginald for build advice. Maybe I need to watch more matches.
Anyway, while the shield and ap are nice, Muramana gives much more burst, which is why I pretty much always buy it.
Seraph's is if you need the extra pad if you are getting dove. Personally i prefer Muramana for the same reason you do.
Hey, I wanted to know which way is better with Ryze during early game. I tend to play very passive until midgame where I go extremely agressive and always get huge scores without any problem. For exemple last game I got 0-2'd vs Veigar (I started tear into banshee) probably because I was too passive (I died the first time being caught off-guard by the CD reduc' of blue on his stun), he spammed the combo stun/aoe/Q everytime he was able to. Then I managed to end at 14-2 because I tend to farm extremely well with him.
My weakness with him really is early game, I guess it's the only thing that prevents me from mastering him (I start with boots+3pots vs skillshots, otherwise its mana cryst+2pots, with the biscuit and ward from masteries).
EDIT : Lately I tried Athene's build on him, which to me seems to be a little bit more tanky but with more mana in early, and less tanky but more damage in early. Seems quite good but I'm still not used to it. Obviously in this post I was talking about games where I use the standard build MPen boots/RoA/Banshee/Frozen Heart/Muramana (last item I try stuff like Void Staff or Liandry) :p
On March 26 2013 08:46 Sakray wrote: Hey, I wanted to know which way is better with Ryze during early game. I tend to play very passive until midgame where I go extremely agressive and always get huge scores without any problem. For exemple last game I got 0-2'd vs Veigar (I started tear into banshee) probably because I was too passive (I died the first time being caught off-guard by the CD reduc' of blue on his stun), he spammed the combo stun/aoe/Q everytime he was able to. Then I managed to end at 14-2 because I tend to farm extremely well with him.
My weakness with him really is early game, I guess it's the only thing that prevents me from mastering him (I start with boots+3pots vs skillshots, otherwise its mana cryst+2pots, with the biscuit and ward from masteries).
EDIT : Lately I tried Athene's build on him, which to me seems to be a little bit more tanky but with more mana in early, and less tanky but more damage in early. Seems quite good but I'm still not used to it. Obviously in this post I was talking about games where I use the standard build MPen boots/RoA/Banshee/Frozen Heart/Muramana (last item I try stuff like Void Staff or Liandry) :p
These days I would either open Flask +3pots vs a weak jungler or Faerie +4/6 Pots +2/1 Wards vs a scary jungler. A bit of extra damage from a Mana Crystal means nothing if you're playing with a potion disadvantage, and Boots aren't too helpful either.
I don't see any appeal to Athene's. You don't need mana regen once you have Tear + another mana item, Frozen Heart alone is enough to max your CDR and you benefit little from AP. Between Banshee's and Mercs you have tons of MR too.
By Athene's build I mean the PLAYER Athene, not the item :p Athene's build is sth like MPen boots/RoA/Athene's Unholy Grail/Muramana/Seraph'/Zhonya, you can find it here :
Basically the early game is mana crystal + pots, and first back he gets Tear + Chalice then rush blue (everything is just in time, blue respawn around 7:10 which is approximately when you arrive on your lane).
On March 26 2013 09:10 Sakray wrote: By Athene's build I mean the PLAYER Athene, not the item :p Athene's build is sth like MPen boots/RoA/Athene's Unholy Grail/Muramana/Seraph'/Zhonya, you can find it here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koY_-828wP4
Basically the early game is mana crystal + pots, and first back he gets Tear + Chalice then rush blue (everything is just in time, blue respawn around 7:10 which is approximately when you arrive on your lane).
I don't know why youd need athenes on Ryze tbh.
And in all reality he's probably only getting because it has his name on it, and he has that big of an ego.
If there's an AD carry on the other team, get FH for your 20% CDR item, not Grail. Period. If you really need MR, Banshee's is generally Ryze's favorite MR item, with Abyssal Scepter being runner up/situationally better. Grail is a distant third. So unless the team is SO magic oriented that you're building ALL THREE of these items (and no Frozen Heart)... yeah, fuck Grail.
Ryze gets 10% CDR from Q and often runs 9-10% in masteries or (sometimes) runes, so you only need 20% on items, and once you get your 20% CDR item you can usually stop taking blue buff. If you aren't running much CDR on masteries, 20% is still overkill and you probably should just chug blue elixirs when you're not bluebuffed or something.
Mana yellow/blues are also not very rune-slot efficient, iirc. You give up a ton of early survivability (which Ryze needs) for like 30 damage lategame (and damage late is not what Ryze lacks).
On April 20 2013 00:55 TheLastRaven wrote: How bad was the Muramana nerf on Ryze? Do you guys find he still puts out enough late game damage, or is Seraph's the better item at this point?
The physical damage change makes it pretty bad, since everyone will have more armor than mr and apart from running hybrid reds, Ryze won't ever get armor pen.
On April 20 2013 02:31 Juicyfruit wrote: I think Toyz likes Seraph so I would go with that.
Is iceborn gauntlet any good on ryze or am I just insane?
Muramana was always more damage/burst than Seraphs, but pros, especially in the asian scene have always favored Seraphs because of the increased survivability. Ryze honestly doesn't need more damage and just wants to stay alive as his sustained dps is just absurd.
Gauntlet's really not that useful on Ryze since the amount of autoattacking you'll be doing is minimal. FH gives 25 more armor, 10% more cdr, plus the attack speed slow aura. Gauntlet gives you 30 more AP, 100 more mana, and the auto attack proc. Gauntlet will be more upfront damage, but the survivability on FH is too good to pass up and additionally, with 9/0/21 masteries, you cap cdr with just FH.
I remember hearing on one of the Curse player streams that their manager, Liquid, did the math and that on the second rotation of spells (im assuming is after initial QWQEQRQ combo) the extra AP from Seraph's did more damage, not including the fact that you won't always come into a teamfight with full mana.
I've been doing Q > E > W recently and prefer it to Q > W > E. It's bad when fighting near minion waves but if the other team has a bruiser charging at you he's gonna eat a lot of damage and lose 24 MR. I never felt like I needed the extra CC duration of rune prison because Ryze already has one of the highest MS in the game.
On April 20 2013 09:55 Dusty wrote: I remember hearing on one of the Curse player streams that their manager, Liquid, did the math and that on the second rotation of spells (im assuming is after initial QWQEQRQ combo) the extra AP from Seraph's did more damage, not including the fact that you won't always come into a teamfight with full mana.
I don't really play ryze but one would assume that you'd want to R first?
On May 26 2013 00:53 ArchAngelSC wrote: I don't really play ryze but one would assume that you'd want to R first?
If you're against a single target it's not necessary, you only use it for CD reduc.
Eh that's not really true. There's no reason not to use R when you try to trade or run or basically anything since it gives you massive spellvamp and a ton of bonus movementspeed, which lets you kite much better. It also practically has no cooldown.
On May 27 2013 21:49 GTR wrote: Seeing Shy play Ryze with a utility build - what are the pros and cons compared to say the stock standard 21/0/9 or 0/21/9?
Going 9/0/21 has been the standard masteries for Ryze imo since he doesn't rely on AP but on mana. Mana masteries are obviously a must-have on him, as well as the CD reduc ones. He's probably the champ that profits the most from blue buff, so again the mastery that gives +20% duration makes sense. Summoner's Insight is extremely good on him because most of the time you play him with TP/Flash. And since standards quint on him are the MS one, again the last utility mastery is good on him.
In the offensive tree I have 2 points on CD reduc and 2 on Butcher to help last-hitting early-game (since he's quite weak until mid game), I also have 4 points in Blast (Deadliness doesn't make sense) to unlock Arcane Knowledge.
On May 27 2013 21:49 GTR wrote: Seeing Shy play Ryze with a utility build - what are the pros and cons compared to say the stock standard 21/0/9 or 0/21/9?
Going 9/0/21 has been the standard masteries for Ryze imo since he doesn't rely on AP but on mana. Mana masteries are obviously a must-have on him, as well as the CD reduc ones. He's probably the champ that profits the most from blue buff, so again the mastery that gives +20% duration makes sense. Summoner's Insight is extremely good on him because most of the time you play him with TP/Flash. And since standards quint on him are the MS one, again the last utility mastery is good on him.
In the offensive tree I have 2 points on CD reduc and 2 on Butcher to help last-hitting early-game (since he's quite weak until mid game), I also have 4 points in Blast (Deadliness doesn't make sense) to unlock Arcane Knowledge.
If you do that, you may want to consider running 2% CDR in your runes somewhere.
I run ms quints/mpen marks/armor seals/MR gylph 9/0/21 masteries.
Ryze doesn't need AP but being a short ranged caster, he needs as much MS as you can spare without going out of the way to buy it. Since all the mana masteries, strength of spirit, and nimble are all in utility, it makes sense to go full utility for him.
How exactly does ryze top not get owned? I see Shy do it and demolish later, but then i see scarra get facestomped. Aside from the skill difference, is this something that is viable in ranked solo queues?
On May 30 2013 06:19 imBLIND wrote: How exactly does ryze top not get owned? I see Shy do it and demolish later, but then i see scarra get facestomped. Aside from the skill difference, is this something that is viable in ranked solo queues?
Scarra never really practiced Ryze for top lane when he did it in the match. He said on stream it was a reactionary play for the all star game and that it wasn't planned. I think Ryze top needs more attention than mid. Shy also has more skills than scarra so yeah. As far as solo que goes, you better have your jungler be ready to counter-gank or to just camp top and get you fed early since it's easy to gank a ryze lane. If you are on red side expect to get camped by the enemy jungler, If you are on blue side you are a bit safer.
Ryze does very well against melee champs due to powerful harass with Q and easy disengage/gank support with W. He does very well if you can kite properly. Also, the off lane tends to be left alone for the most part after the tower has been taken and Ryze loves free farm. Ryze can also farm quite well in a 1v2 lane due to his range.
The biggest weakness is lack of mobility makes him very vulnerable to ganks. In solo queue and in the hands of lesser skilled players top Ryze is probably more of a liability than anything, but with good players and in a more organized setting you can easily mitigate his weaknesses.
top ryze's opened sapphire+2 on both blue and red side, taking TP.
What this let's them do is bully extremely hard from 1-3 in a 1v1 lane, be relatively safe from a gank due to the 1 min ward that they can put down at ~2:50, and base at around 4-5 minutes once you've expended all mana to pick up a completed tear and consumables.
Tp means that even in a 1v2, if you spam spells to CS, you should be able to farm enough to pick up a tear+ lots of pots and maybe even a flask.
I'm trying to get into ryze top, but all the guides are for mid ryze on solomid. How do you change up your build for top lane? Later game it seems to be fairly similar, but i'm super scared early game and play super passive because I'm always thinking a gank is coming (especially if I start mana crystal and dont have a ward)
It is fairly similar, other than you can go mana glyphs instead of mr/level depending on the matchup. I think 9/0/21 is pretty much mandatory in most matchups, as is tp. Other than that, not a whole lot different. You have to be conscious of the enemy jungler yes, but as long as you get your tear and start charging that up without dying, there's not too much different to be honest. If anything, I find it easier because it's more of a commitment for the enemy jungler to be top later, so you have a lot of time to q the enemy top in the face.
I get the 3 points in the utility tree in spell vamp too. Just because coming back to lane without tp takes a lot longer than it would mid lane, so that makes it harder to push you out of lane (usually from a jungle gank).
So what do people think about Ryze after the nerfs?
Played him in two games, went well in one (Had a good team though) and poorly in the other. Versed ahri in the second game and the range nerf really hurts him vs long range mages I think.
Played him versus Kassadin and it was the most unfun thing ever. He just threw spaceballs and spacepuked on me, and I didnt even have the range to react properly.
Still won the stupid game though because Spectre's Cowl is great.
Imo the champ is quite dead now, you have less spell range than aa range. You can't poke, you can only trade. And when your early game is already shit, having to take damage everytime when you want to make some pressure to help your farming is just too much. He was my main, I don't think I'll play him anymore now (I've tried, not fun anymore)
Having been playing lol not so long so not even lvl 30 yet (26) so my advice may not mean much, but I was using ryze as my main from early on. After a couple of rough games mid, since the patch, against champions I didn't even have a problem with before I started going top Ryze and I've been having a lot of success with him up there. He can really punish bruisers, even if they have a gap closer I think my positioning from playing mid has helped me out so its normally not an issue and against champs without a gap closer, like Nasus, the enemy Nasus will just get destroyed or be so far behind in cs you can dump and kill him at 6. You can even auto attack harass Nasus and he can't do anything about it. One of ryze's weaknesses is his lack of mobility and being top you generally only have to worry about the gank from one direction, the river, so as long as you keep it warded its extremely difficult to get ganked.
I'm sure eventually people will catch on and start counter picking for ryze top if they see another mid, but I guess at my lvl chances of that happening are slim so I'm having a lot of success so far.
On September 15 2013 21:59 walrus wrote: I want to play Ryze again, does anyone have some good tips?
To be honest, I almost think Ryze is a more viable top laner now than a mid because of how hard his range nerfs hit. Someone here likened post-nerf Ryze to a T-Rex - still very powerful, but you have to get close enough to reach people with your stubby arms. I do like how fast you go with ult, which can help close this distance, but a lot of his matchups are, in my experience, much more difficult now than they were before.
Farther than that, I'm sure someone else will help. I haven't played him enough (read: was getting completely trashed after the patch and gave up trying) to really know a lot of details about him anymore. I'll actually probably wait for another reply and use the tips myself, if I feel up to playing him again. :3
I do agree with ryze being a better top laner now than he is of a mid laner, but he's basically just a slow version of kennen that can carry harder if he does well. Doing well with ryze involves being extremely safe: not pushing, not drawing jungler attention (or telling your jungler to camp top for counter ganks), double/triple warding the lane, getting tele instead of ingnite so you can start blue crystal/pots, etc. One could go as far as to say he has no good matchups if your jungler is not better than the enemy jungler. This is usually a major disadvantage until you get 3 items.
Most of the time, ryze just lets the tower fall early and free farms until he gets archangel/RoA/SV or FH, meaning the rest of your team would be 4v4ing or 4v5ing for at least to the 20 minute mark, probably longer. His escape sucks too much to be pushing the free lane post-20 minutes, so if you're behind at all, its going to be really hard to catch up.
I haven't tried these myselfs (gonna try them out in the inhouses when i get back to my own computer), but I'm considering skipping RoA on ryze and getting SV as a 2nd item (after tear+boots). Also considering 9/21/0 and 9/12/9 masteries instead of 9/0/21 and turning him into rumble. Maybe iceborn instead of FH too just to give him extra kiting ability against bruisers. Itemization would probably be tear/boots>SV>glacial>randuins, zhonya, or banshee while sitting on the glacial.
On September 16 2013 12:48 imBLIND wrote: I do agree with ryze being a better top laner now than he is of a mid laner, but he's basically just a slow version of kennen that can carry harder if he does well. Doing well with ryze involves being extremely safe: not pushing, not drawing jungler attention (or telling your jungler to camp top for counter ganks), double/triple warding the lane, getting tele instead of ingnite so you can start blue crystal/pots, etc. One could go as far as to say he has no good matchups if your jungler is not better than the enemy jungler. This is usually a major disadvantage until you get 3 items.
Most of the time, ryze just lets the tower fall early and free farms until he gets archangel/RoA/SV or FH, meaning the rest of your team would be 4v4ing or 4v5ing for at least to the 20 minute mark, probably longer. His escape sucks too much to be pushing the free lane post-20 minutes, so if you're behind at all, its going to be really hard to catch up.
I haven't tried these myselfs (gonna try them out in the inhouses when i get back to my own computer), but I'm considering skipping RoA on ryze and getting SV as a 2nd item (after tear+boots). Also considering 9/21/0 and 9/12/9 masteries instead of 9/0/21 and turning him into rumble. Maybe iceborn instead of FH too just to give him extra kiting ability against bruisers. Itemization would probably be tear/boots>SV>glacial>randuins, zhonya, or banshee while sitting on the glacial.
21 defense isn't going to do much for the late game that he's preparing. Ryze needs MS so that last point alone is worth all the points into utility.. The Spellvamp, Expanded mind, CDR and Strength of Spirit masteries makes it even better.
On September 16 2013 12:48 imBLIND wrote: I do agree with ryze being a better top laner now than he is of a mid laner, but he's basically just a slow version of kennen that can carry harder if he does well. Doing well with ryze involves being extremely safe: not pushing, not drawing jungler attention (or telling your jungler to camp top for counter ganks), double/triple warding the lane, getting tele instead of ingnite so you can start blue crystal/pots, etc. One could go as far as to say he has no good matchups if your jungler is not better than the enemy jungler. This is usually a major disadvantage until you get 3 items.
Most of the time, ryze just lets the tower fall early and free farms until he gets archangel/RoA/SV or FH, meaning the rest of your team would be 4v4ing or 4v5ing for at least to the 20 minute mark, probably longer. His escape sucks too much to be pushing the free lane post-20 minutes, so if you're behind at all, its going to be really hard to catch up.
I haven't tried these myselfs (gonna try them out in the inhouses when i get back to my own computer), but I'm considering skipping RoA on ryze and getting SV as a 2nd item (after tear+boots). Also considering 9/21/0 and 9/12/9 masteries instead of 9/0/21 and turning him into rumble. Maybe iceborn instead of FH too just to give him extra kiting ability against bruisers. Itemization would probably be tear/boots>SV>glacial>randuins, zhonya, or banshee while sitting on the glacial.
21 defense isn't going to do much for the late game that he's preparing. Ryze needs MS so that last point alone is worth all the points into utility.. The Spellvamp, Expanded mind, CDR and Strength of Spirit masteries makes it even better.
The only reason I even considered not going 21 into utlity was because of the changes to ryze's ult and the nerfs to his Q, W, and E. I feel ryze already has a damn strong late game without 21 in the utility tree, and it's only a matter of getting to the late game that I need to worry about while playing him.
I'm going to try out 9/9/12 right now with him, sacrificing the CDR, health regen, and move speed for extra resists and more health
i feel like ryze is still fine mid, hes not as good as the top tier mid lanes...but the KDA doesn't matter if he farms and doesnt feed too much...hes gonna die a few times but still have an insane late game provided hes still farming and not dying more than 2-3 times...dont understand why hes so terrible just because of range nerfs...he can't trade but he can farm.
On September 27 2013 09:57 nath wrote: i feel like ryze is still fine mid, hes not as good as the top tier mid lanes...but the KDA doesn't matter if he farms and doesnt feed too much...hes gonna die a few times but still have an insane late game provided hes still farming and not dying more than 2-3 times...dont understand why hes so terrible just because of range nerfs...he can't trade but he can farm.
If their mid is passive, yeah. Otherwise it's just raping time on you.
On September 27 2013 09:57 nath wrote: i feel like ryze is still fine mid, hes not as good as the top tier mid lanes...but the KDA doesn't matter if he farms and doesnt feed too much...hes gonna die a few times but still have an insane late game provided hes still farming and not dying more than 2-3 times...dont understand why hes so terrible just because of range nerfs...he can't trade but he can farm.
If their mid is passive, yeah. Otherwise it's just raping time on you.
if all you try to do is farm and keep the lane frozen i disagree.
also you sir are classless for using rape in that context, regardless of 'gamer' speak.
you could even take barrier and for sure you would not die unless you try to trade or push the lane.
I haven't played lol in a few weeks due to bad luck, but I went something like 15-5 during placements and subsequent matches playing mostly top ryze. I'd normally start mana crystal / 2 health pots. Then build tear/roa/regular boots. Then build continue building tanky (roa already gives a good bit of tankiness as is) but I'd build glacial shroud and spirit visage before finishing sorc shoes and archangel's staff. Once you have roa, glacial shroud, and spirit visage you are an unstoppable force if ahead and still an excellent tank for your team if you are behind.
On September 27 2013 09:57 nath wrote: i feel like ryze is still fine mid, hes not as good as the top tier mid lanes...but the KDA doesn't matter if he farms and doesnt feed too much...hes gonna die a few times but still have an insane late game provided hes still farming and not dying more than 2-3 times...dont understand why hes so terrible just because of range nerfs...he can't trade but he can farm.
if you're game pan involves "dying a few times" you need to revist/change your game plan or play a different champion. "dying a few times" may be ok in low elos or against champs/players that don't capitalize on their advantage or snowball well, but in general dying in lane is quite bad.
If you can't trade in lane you're gonna have a hard time farming if the other guy knows how to freeze their lane. On top of that, a lot of popular champs can harass you pretty hard under your tower.
On September 27 2013 09:57 nath wrote: i feel like ryze is still fine mid, hes not as good as the top tier mid lanes...but the KDA doesn't matter if he farms and doesnt feed too much...hes gonna die a few times but still have an insane late game provided hes still farming and not dying more than 2-3 times...dont understand why hes so terrible just because of range nerfs...he can't trade but he can farm.
if you're game pan involves "dying a few times" you need to revist/change your game plan or play a different champion. "dying a few times" may be ok in low elos or against champs/players that don't capitalize on their advantage or snowball well, but in general dying in lane is quite bad.
If you can't trade in lane you're gonna have a hard time farming if the other guy knows how to freeze their lane. On top of that, a lot of popular champs can harass you pretty hard under your tower.
didn't know dade was a low ELO player (or maybe he is... :D) in one of his games he still had an impact lategame after going 0-3 in lane...it really wasnt as bad as everyone was saying. the other ryze game was much worse if i recall.
there are many champs where its ok to fall behind (kassadin going 0-2 in lane isn't terrible, for instance)
Doesn't even have to be late, late game. I've gone 0-3 in laning phase, had teammates bitch at me, and then apologize at the end of the game. I had a rough laning phase against a jax once, but just continued to farm while he roamed for a bit, hence the teammates bitching, but then first group fight 3 of them dumped on me first and between my defensive gear and spell vamp survived trading 0 for 3 sometime between 20-25 minutes.
This only works if the enemy team gives you space to farm and get back in the game. Dade was able to do that once at Worlds because Vulcun didn't know how to close the game out and Dade's team was good at creating space for him to farm. He was completely useless as Ryze in every other game he played him during Worlds.
In solo q this problem can be exacerbated since you can't rely on your team to create space for you to farm. In lower elos where teams just bumble around not knowing what to do this can work, but this becomes less effective the higher up you go. This also doesn't work if your opposing laner chooses not to roam and just constantly pushes your face in.
Very interested in the upcoming ryze changes. The mspeed buffs and AA animation change will make him into a shorter ranged annie in the laning phase. His roaming might be improved enough to warrant getting mobies
On October 02 2013 03:36 imBLIND wrote: Very interested in the upcoming ryze changes. The mspeed buffs and AA animation change will make him into a shorter ranged annie in the laning phase. His roaming might be improved enough to warrant getting mobies
"shorter ranged annie" is kind of a contradiction. Annie's autoattack animation isn't very good - there's a pretty long windup time. The only reason why her auto harass is strong is because she has the second highest base range in the game.
Honestly, Ryze is still gonna suck. 5 movespeed is not going to make up for 50 range. His roaming, teamfighting, and lategame potential is not his problem right now. It's the fact that he can't trade in lane with the popular assassins, which is a huge liability since he's also inherently very squishy. Honestly, I'd rather have the 50 range back even if it means Ryze gets 300 base movespeed.
I've run either Flash/TP or Flash/Ghost just to compare and contrast the two (finding the former better but Ghost Ryze is the lols).
Any reason to run any other AP item besides RoA/Seraphs/Void/Abbysal or any other defensive item besides SV/FH? Trying to think of any other logical item that can be built on Ryze.
Maybe revolver? Spellvamp is really strong on Ryze because of his low cooldowns and primarily single target spells, and it works well with him building a lot of resists.
On November 21 2013 05:35 koreasilver wrote: Maybe revolver? Spellvamp is really strong on Ryze because of his low cooldowns and primarily single target spells, and it works well with him building a lot of resists.
Yea I was thinking maybe Ancient Lizard in a splitpush TP Ryze build. Can't remember the last time I saw a WoTA built, so I'm not even sure if its worth it to go WoTA even with a triple AP comp or something.
A little early, but what are people thinking S4 masteries on this guy will end up looking like? So far I'm thinking 10/0/20 or 0/11/19 or something like that.
Been exclusively playing this guy the past few days. Will probably be one of my "go to" mains come S4 soloq probably.
I was watching the new utility tree and thought that utility ryze would be even more stronger. Also new Wota will come with magna regen and CDR, I could be worth getting it on him early against high sustain.
I just tried him top and holy shit i had forgotten how much Dmg this guy deals... I destroyed a riven (bad riven sure but..) going 9/0/21. I didn't feel this fast with ult on though, still kinda hard to catch people with W sometimes
If it matters, I go 1/8/21. I honestly feel I would always have 10-16 less CS if I didn't have Butcher. I don't think I've ever had an initial laning phase before first back where minions didn't reach my tower.
I can see some people go 9 Offense as well, as Feast may seem pretty decent on Ryze.
Other than 21 in utility, I definitely like 4 points in CDR and 2 in block. The other 3 I'm not so sure about. I guess just health regen and unyielding.
I played a little bit of Ryze today just because I was curious about how the new masteries would work on him. I used this page after thinking about it for a little bit.
The new masteries superficially seem alright, but the you can still really feel the range nerfs. I was never good with Ryze though, so maybe more experienced and better Ryze players could give some input on whether or not the new masteries are better or worse in comparison to S3. It seems it's overall worse though. You get less constant ms and you no longer get the 8% penetration.
On November 25 2013 13:08 koreasilver wrote: I played a little bit of Ryze today just because I was curious about how the new masteries would work on him. I used this page after thinking about it for a little bit.
The new masteries superficially seem alright, but the you can still really feel the range nerfs. I was never good with Ryze though, so maybe more experienced and better Ryze players could give some input on whether or not the new masteries are better or worse in comparison to S3. It seems it's overall worse though. You get less constant ms and you no longer get the 8% penetration.
Those are almost the exact same masteries that I'm using. Only difference is that I only have one point in mana regen, and instead have 3 in summoner's insight and 1 in bandit. I'm still not sure on health regen or 5% bonus armour/magic resist. I think that health regen may be a bit more useful since it actually does something early game, and the 5% bonus armour/magic resist is still pretty negligible late.
Bandit doesn't seem useful at all on Ryze given that for most matchups you're really not going to get opportunities to auto the opposing laner, and SoS is super strong on Ryze since it gives you 1hp/5 per 300 max mana (the description in the site I linked to is wrong). The mana regen you need to unlock SoS helps a lot for your early game where you're pretty mana starved. The 2hp/5 might be better than the 5% bonus resists because of early game, you're right. Bandit is pretty shitty though, and I think it's worth missing out on the 10% summoner cd reduction for SoS, which is pretty strong on Ryze.
On November 25 2013 14:35 koreasilver wrote: Bandit doesn't seem useful at all on Ryze given that for most matchups you're really not going to get opportunities to auto the opposing laner, and SoS is super strong on Ryze since it gives you 1hp/5 per 300 max mana (the description in the site I linked to is wrong). The mana regen you need to unlock SoS helps a lot for your early game where you're pretty mana starved. The 2hp/5 might be better than the 5% bonus resists because of early game, you're right. Bandit is pretty shitty though, and I think it's worth missing out on the 10% summoner cd reduction for SoS, which is pretty strong on Ryze.
Bandit's definitely not the best mastery out there, but 30 seconds off flash and teleport is pretty great. You'll get very little from the health regen mastery until late game, and even then with seraph's/RoA/frozen heart, you'll get something like 135 health a minute. Given that your ult has a 30 second cooldown (even less with your passive) and will give you significantly more health, that health regen is really going to be barely noticeable.
I'm still having trouble against Renek because of his huge gap closer. He just needs to have minions between him and me so he can jump on me, remove half of my HP early game and I can't damage him enough to make up for it. I can't sustain as fast as he can, so I can't do shit if he stands in front of his minions.
What to do in these situations ? I've tried starting catalyst 1st but he can still destroy me without him taking any damage in return.
You need to stand far enough away that Slice alone won't make it. Force him to use Dice to get to you, then you can pummel him with a full rotation while he walks back to behind his minion line. If he is able to get right next to you with Slice, you're going to lose the trade. If he does this more than once, you'll get zoned or die.
On April 23 2014 04:52 Sakray wrote: Ok, so Ryze is viable again top, as we all know.
I'm still having trouble against Renek because of his huge gap closer. He just needs to have minions between him and me so he can jump on me, remove half of my HP early game and I can't damage him enough to make up for it. I can't sustain as fast as he can, so I can't do shit if he stands in front of his minions.
What to do in these situations ? I've tried starting catalyst 1st but he can still destroy me without him taking any damage in return.
run tp and start with mana crystal. abuse ur autoattacks and use the bush to de-aggro urself. throw q on him whenever he tries to cs. best let him try to jump to you and use q so the wave pushes towards you. once the wave pushes to you, u can freeze it there for a good 2-3 waves. even if he does manage to jump onto u and land all his combo, the damage and cc stun duration is not enough to discourage you from harassing him, so throw out all the spells you can while he tries to fight you. i find getting tears is better than catalyst since it only costs 350~ after buying mana crystal, and gives you more mana sustain. you can also put 3 points into the spell vamp mastery for extra sustain. the key with ryze top lane is that you need to control where the creep wave will meet. ive played ryze vs rene lanes where the rene fell behind by 50 cs without any kills or deaths in lane.
Ryze is a good candidate for weird masteries. I typically do 5/10/15 or 5/13/12 and swap out a few MR glyphs for 5% flat CDR. Then you hit 40% by getting 10% from masteries/runes, 10% from Q, and 20% from Frozen Heart. Tear -> RoA and Frozen Heart -> Seraph's -> Void Staff and Guardian Angel is all you need.
He takes very strong advantage of the hidden mastery interactions (Expose Weakness works on your own damage and Oppression reduces damage from champions affected by Frozen Heart).
On April 23 2014 05:18 BlasiuS wrote: You need to stand far enough away that Slice alone won't make it. Force him to use Dice to get to you, then you can pummel him with a full rotation while he walks back to behind his minion line. If he is able to get right next to you with Slice, you're going to lose the trade. If he does this more than once, you'll get zoned or die.
That's what I usually do, but even if I force him to use Dice I still lose more HP than he does, and with a full rotation at low level I run out of mana very quickly while he can just wait for his cd's, sustain with Q, then jump on me again.
On April 23 2014 05:37 Lightswarm wrote: run tp and start with mana crystal. abuse ur autoattacks and use the bush to de-aggro urself. throw q on him whenever he tries to cs. best let him try to jump to you and use q so the wave pushes towards you. once the wave pushes to you, u can freeze it there for a good 2-3 waves. even if he does manage to jump onto u and land all his combo, the damage and cc stun duration is not enough to discourage you from harassing him, so throw out all the spells you can while he tries to fight you. i find getting tears is better than catalyst since it only costs 350~ after buying mana crystal, and gives you more mana sustain. you can also put 3 points into the spell vamp mastery for extra sustain. the key with ryze top lane is that you need to control where the creep wave will meet. ive played ryze vs rene lanes where the rene fell behind by 50 cs without any kills or deaths in lane.
I do run TP and start with mana crystal, I use my TP to return to lane early after backing and grabbing either tear or catalyst when I have the money to do so. I'm not using the bushes enough tho, it may help a bit when harassing.
On April 23 2014 05:50 GrandInquisitor wrote: Ryze is a good candidate for weird masteries. I typically do 5/10/15 or 5/13/12 and swap out a few MR glyphs for 5% flat CDR. Then you hit 40% by getting 10% from masteries/runes, 10% from Q, and 20% from Frozen Heart. Tear -> RoA and Frozen Heart -> Seraph's -> Void Staff and Guardian Angel is all you need.
He takes very strong advantage of the hidden mastery interactions (Expose Weakness works on your own damage and Oppression reduces damage from champions affected by Frozen Heart).
My main build is sorcerer's boots/tear/catalyst, and endgame sorcerer/archangel/roa/frozen heart/banshee OR void staff OR spirit visage OR wota (if ballsy), going GA feels weird on him
On April 23 2014 05:50 GrandInquisitor wrote: Ryze is a good candidate for weird masteries. I typically do 5/10/15 or 5/13/12 and swap out a few MR glyphs for 5% flat CDR. Then you hit 40% by getting 10% from masteries/runes, 10% from Q, and 20% from Frozen Heart. Tear -> RoA and Frozen Heart -> Seraph's -> Void Staff and Guardian Angel is all you need.
He takes very strong advantage of the hidden mastery interactions (Expose Weakness works on your own damage and Oppression reduces damage from champions affected by Frozen Heart).
How could frozen heart affect oppression? It specifies impaired movement.
Also, unless the other team has like no AP and no CC, you should get merc treads.
On April 23 2014 05:50 GrandInquisitor wrote: Ryze is a good candidate for weird masteries. I typically do 5/10/15 or 5/13/12 and swap out a few MR glyphs for 5% flat CDR. Then you hit 40% by getting 10% from masteries/runes, 10% from Q, and 20% from Frozen Heart. Tear -> RoA and Frozen Heart -> Seraph's -> Void Staff and Guardian Angel is all you need.
He takes very strong advantage of the hidden mastery interactions (Expose Weakness works on your own damage and Oppression reduces damage from champions affected by Frozen Heart).
How could frozen heart affect oppression? It specifies impaired movement.
Also, unless the other team has like no AP and no CC, you should get merc treads.
Because attack speed slows are now coded as movement speed slows l0l
It's still a nightmare matchup. Assuming you both know the matchup and are equally skilled, I'm pretty sure Renekton will always win without jungler interference.
It's definitely a "I know I can't win lane phase so just don't die and outscale" matchup.
On April 23 2014 09:02 BlasiuS wrote: It's still a nightmare matchup. Assuming you both know the matchup and are equally skilled, I'm pretty sure Renekton will always win without jungler interference.
It's definitely a "I know I can't win lane phase so just don't die and outscale" matchup.
renekton pushes the lane towards ryze really easily even in early levels so i dont see how he will always win in 1v1 laning phase. as soon as the lane pushes towards ryze, renekton has to force a lane reset by shoving to tower. once the creeps meet just outside of tower range, it becomes next to impossible to get any cs from ryze
On April 23 2014 09:02 BlasiuS wrote: It's still a nightmare matchup. Assuming you both know the matchup and are equally skilled, I'm pretty sure Renekton will always win without jungler interference.
It's definitely a "I know I can't win lane phase so just don't die and outscale" matchup.
I have to respectfully disagree. Lv1, you should have free AA+Q+AA harass if he wants to last hit the ranged minions. Lv 2 onwards, you just let him push the lane towards you and freeze it right outside turret range. He shouldn't be able to continue pushing your wave without taking a serious amount of harass.
On the flip side though, if you somehow push him out to his tower, you're dead if you get ganked. So basically, whoever controls the creep wave the best will win the match up. Sure he has better wave clear, but you have stronger harass.
And renekton's gap is still a good 150+ units smaller than your Q range. If you position correctly, you should be about 2 minions side-by-side in length away from him. He shouldn't be able EW you without him taking your full combo. Maybe he can Q you, but then your Q trades back equally. Just learn to position better and you shouldn't have a problem.
On April 23 2014 05:18 BlasiuS wrote: You need to stand far enough away that Slice alone won't make it. Force him to use Dice to get to you, then you can pummel him with a full rotation while he walks back to behind his minion line. If he is able to get right next to you with Slice, you're going to lose the trade. If he does this more than once, you'll get zoned or die.
That's what I usually do, but even if I force him to use Dice I still lose more HP than he does, and with a full rotation at low level I run out of mana very quickly while he can just wait for his cd's, sustain with Q, then jump on me again.
On April 23 2014 05:37 Lightswarm wrote: run tp and start with mana crystal. abuse ur autoattacks and use the bush to de-aggro urself. throw q on him whenever he tries to cs. best let him try to jump to you and use q so the wave pushes towards you. once the wave pushes to you, u can freeze it there for a good 2-3 waves. even if he does manage to jump onto u and land all his combo, the damage and cc stun duration is not enough to discourage you from harassing him, so throw out all the spells you can while he tries to fight you. i find getting tears is better than catalyst since it only costs 350~ after buying mana crystal, and gives you more mana sustain. you can also put 3 points into the spell vamp mastery for extra sustain. the key with ryze top lane is that you need to control where the creep wave will meet. ive played ryze vs rene lanes where the rene fell behind by 50 cs without any kills or deaths in lane.
I do run TP and start with mana crystal, I use my TP to return to lane early after backing and grabbing either tear or catalyst when I have the money to do so. I'm not using the bushes enough tho, it may help a bit when harassing.
On April 23 2014 05:50 GrandInquisitor wrote: Ryze is a good candidate for weird masteries. I typically do 5/10/15 or 5/13/12 and swap out a few MR glyphs for 5% flat CDR. Then you hit 40% by getting 10% from masteries/runes, 10% from Q, and 20% from Frozen Heart. Tear -> RoA and Frozen Heart -> Seraph's -> Void Staff and Guardian Angel is all you need.
He takes very strong advantage of the hidden mastery interactions (Expose Weakness works on your own damage and Oppression reduces damage from champions affected by Frozen Heart).
My main build is sorcerer's boots/tear/catalyst, and endgame sorcerer/archangel/roa/frozen heart/banshee OR void staff OR spirit visage OR wota (if ballsy), going GA feels weird on him
Ryze shits on renek. If owning him in lane is all you want, go Mana quints, Mpen reds, armor yellows and mana glyphs and start Mana crystal. 0/9/21 lets you have two biscuits as well. Q him every CD and he will be screaming for his jungler. Remember as long as you don't auto him you won't take minion aggro, so zone with Q only. Also switch teleport for ignite for kill potential.
With the resurgence of ryze top. As anyone found something that can counter ryze well. I tried jayce it worked pretty well but im curious if anyone has any other champions that can do it as well.
On the page that you linked, Range of Champions: "Note that autoattack range is measured differently to ability range. Given a source unit's hitbox and a target unit's hitbox, range is calculated as follows: autoattack range from edge to edge; targeted skill range from center to center; skillshot range from edge to edge; and the range of self-centered area of effects are from the edge of the source (the larger champions don't benefit less from auras than smaller champions). The difference is approximately 100 (i.e. 550 autoattack range is roughly 650 casting range)"
On April 25 2014 16:32 imBLIND wrote: Okay. You win the range argument. I still think kennen sucks dick against ryze. I've never lost to one unless I get massively camped.
Good Kennens, well even pretty shitty Kennens can abuse almost any top that doesnt have the same range as him.
Ive played Ryze vs Ken and it actually seemed really brutal for ryze tbh. he can shove you under tower and Q + W proc you all day, and anytime your jungle wants to come in he just peaces out
kennen overall is pretty hard to duel with while aslo pretty strong in team fights while also kind of resource-less, I have no idea why is he so rarely picked..
On April 25 2014 19:49 M2 wrote: kennen overall is pretty hard to duel with while aslo pretty strong in team fights while also kind of resource-less, I have no idea why is he so rarely picked..
apparently the range nerf gutted him and made him completely unplayable /sarcasm
On April 25 2014 22:29 Lightswarm wrote: why not just force a laneswap to cripple ryze's seraph timing?
Seraph's timing is generally not a limiting factor. RoA timing is by far the bigger issue. The tear is going to stack slowly regardess.
ur still denying alot of ryze's cs if u throw a 2v1 on him. getting jungler to shove his lane at lvl 3-4 just further cripples how safely he can cs into the 2nd drag spawn timing
On April 27 2014 01:40 loSleb wrote: So what kind of masteries do you run on him? I have seen everything and tried tons of things and I still have no idea.
I really like 5/10/15 or 5/14/11. You can play around with it but the keys are Juggernaut, Expose Weakness, Oppression, Strength of Spirit, Vampirism, and Expanded Mind.
On April 27 2014 01:40 loSleb wrote: So what kind of masteries do you run on him? I have seen everything and tried tons of things and I still have no idea.
I really like 5/10/15 or 5/14/11. You can play around with it but the keys are Juggernaut, Expose Weakness, Oppression, Strength of Spirit, Vampirism, and Expanded Mind.
Curious, why don't you run 9/0/21 or 0/9/21? Biscuit and 5-10% cdr seems pretty big, as otherwise you'd have to get 40% from runes or blue pot.
But yeah Ryze seems pretty strong top at the moment. Guys who outrange him are a problem but those are rare in the top lane (Jayce seems to be the only common one). And I've always considered him one of the only strong plays into Renekton because you Q/auto him every time he's in range, and as long as you avoid the E->empowered W+Q -> dice away then you should hurt him pretty badly. That said the lane seems very dangerous for you when you only have a tear and he's bought a Negatron/Cowl or pieces of a Tiamat.
CDR is easy: for me, at least, I mostly pick Ryze into Renekton so you can give up a little bit of MR for 5% CDR from your glyphs. That means that masteries/runes = 10%; Q = 10%; FH = 20%.
More to the point, there's just nothing that far south in the utility tree that Ryze wants other than the CDR. Meanwhile, I like getting to 5 and 10 in Offense and Defense because those masteries are especially efficient on Ryze. He makes maximum use of Expose Weakness; and once he gets Frozen Heart, Oppression is basically a 3% damage reduction mastery.
That's why I don't really want to put 21 into Utility; it's just not especially good compared to getting the 5% CDR from glyphs and putting points into more useful masteries instead.
On April 25 2014 16:32 imBLIND wrote: Okay. You win the range argument. I still think kennen sucks dick against ryze. I've never lost to one unless I get massively camped.
I've beaten Ryzes as Kennen. I've generally thought to myself "man, that Ryze sucked" afterwards though.
To be fair Wings usually stomp his opponent in top.
But I can see Aatrox being very strong vs Ryze: great sustain, gapcloser, high damage with few items and Spirit Visage is a core on him anyway.
You could see what happens perfectly well during the early duels. If ryze goes in for the snare aatrox can use his Q to knock him up. It doesn't really matter if your snared during the knockup duration because all you want to do is get an auto off anyway. After that you basically have an Aatrox in Ryze's face who has a slow to stick to you. Massive outplays and baits aside, there should be no way for aatrox to loose that matchup.
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