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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
I was going as graves with a janna vs draven and taric. I couldn't do anything. If I stepped out and try to farm or harass he would out dps me and I would have taric up on my ass. I feel that our bot comp was counterpicked because I am starting to wonder if an aggressive bot is a counter to draven no? How does one counter/play against him strategically | ||
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Tatari
United States1179 Posts
On July 20 2012 09:55 heroyi wrote: Ok so how the hell do you play against him in bot lane? I was going as graves with a janna vs draven and taric. I couldn't do anything. If I stepped out and try to farm or harass he would out dps me and I would have taric up on my ass. I feel that our bot comp was counterpicked because I am starting to wonder if an aggressive bot is a counter to draven no? How does one counter/play against him strategically He's practically MF. Just turn it into a farm lane under your tower. If he's got a support with some cc (in your case Taric), don't get aggressive unless you feel like getting bursted and bleed all over from his passive. Once other lanes are roaming or if your tower falls, you win regardless. Draven can't contribute to a teamfight to save his life. Him taking out bot tower is practically suicide. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On July 20 2012 14:20 Tatari wrote: He's practically MF. Just turn it into a farm lane under your tower. If he's got a support with some cc (in your case Taric), don't get aggressive unless you feel like getting bursted and bleed all over from his passive. Once other lanes are roaming or if your tower falls, you win regardless. Draven can't contribute to a teamfight to save his life. Him taking out bot tower is practically suicide. Yeah an AD carry can't contribute to a team fight... Vs draven/taric specifically something passive with Soraka or super aggressive like leona/corki or graves/blitz would prolly work best. Janna should probably work fine as well but something else would likely be best | ||
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Tatari
United States1179 Posts
On July 20 2012 14:35 Bladeorade wrote: Yeah an AD carry can't contribute to a team fight... Vs draven/taric specifically something passive with Soraka or super aggressive like leona/corki or graves/blitz would prolly work best. Janna should probably work fine as well but something else would likely be best Oh sue me, I didn't mention the auto attack damage an AD carry can dish out. They TOTALLY don't rely on what their kit can provide in a teamfight yeah? What's Draven got? Is he going to catch his Q all day during a full 5v5 teamfight? Grats you just cut down a huge portion of his DPS. His W is nice, but lasts so short and you may as well just use it as a hopeful escape. His E's effect is so miniscule and not worth putting points into for a long time and you won't see its full effect by the time he's level 18. And even then, when everyone else is decently armed, it doesn't amount to much. Not only that, there's room to juke it since it's a skill shot. Only thing he's got in a teamfight is his ult. Look at what other AD carries provide with their kit. Then look at Draven or MF. | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
On July 20 2012 14:40 Tatari wrote: Oh sue me, I didn't mention the auto attack damage an AD carry can dish out. They TOTALLY don't rely on what their kit can provide in a teamfight yeah? What's Draven got? Is he going to catch his Q all day during a full 5v5 teamfight? Grats you just cut down a huge portion of his DPS. His W is nice, but lasts so short and you may as well just use it as a hopeful escape. His E's effect is so miniscule and not worth putting points into for a long time and you won't see its full effect by the time he's level 18. And even then, when everyone else is decently armed, it doesn't amount to much. Not only that, there's room to juke it since it's a skill shot. Only thing he's got in a teamfight is his ult. Look at what other AD carries provide with their kit. Then look at Draven or MF. wait I thought his q isnt a skillshot. It states that his next autoattack does blah blah blah... So from what i am reading is that i should just play really passively? doesnt sound that great considering he will be more than twice my cs by then... | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
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Sareth
Germany1008 Posts
On July 20 2012 14:40 Tatari wrote: Oh sue me, I didn't mention the auto attack damage an AD carry can dish out. They TOTALLY don't rely on what their kit can provide in a teamfight yeah? What's Draven got? Is he going to catch his Q all day during a full 5v5 teamfight? Grats you just cut down a huge portion of his DPS. His W is nice, but lasts so short and you may as well just use it as a hopeful escape. His E's effect is so miniscule and not worth putting points into for a long time and you won't see its full effect by the time he's level 18. And even then, when everyone else is decently armed, it doesn't amount to much. Not only that, there's room to juke it since it's a skill shot. Only thing he's got in a teamfight is his ult. Look at what other AD carries provide with their kit. Then look at Draven or MF. While i agree that Draven is not as strong as lets say Vayne or Kog in the late teamfights, you underestimate him heavily. Have you ever played him? Your Opinions on his skills in teamfights are just wrong. Q: Of course he wont catch any axes in teamfights, he would lose to much damage. Just see the skill as Burstdamage and don't catch the axe. It adds some nice damage and your Passive. W: The AspdBoost is not as high as lets say Graves, but it still should not be underestimated. The huge MspdBoost is an excelent way to reposition yourself if a Bruiser jumps you. E: His E is what makes Draven in Teamfights good. This skill is imo plain OP. It repositions all enemys hit, cancels all channels and slows them by a fair bit. In the laningphase this skill is already good, but if you can hit it in a teamfight and hit 3+ members of the enemy team, your team and you can do damage for close to a secound while they cant do anything. I love this skill, it's the reason why i play Draven. R: I don't like his ult in teamfights. Its good for catching someone who tries to get away with low health, but in teamfights i usually just throw it into the enemy team as soon as our team initiates. With 6 items he wont win vs Vayne or Kog. But against any other AD Carry he looks good. | ||
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SeeDLiNg
United States690 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
It might even be stronger than IE rush as long as your team has some other source of crazy deeps to back you up. After some testing, I feel that Bloodthirster is better as a first item than BC. If cleaver gave more attack damage, maybe I'd buy it, but as is it just doesn't compare to piles of lifesteal and 5-45 more attack damage. | ||
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Alcx
Germany17 Posts
his ability to trade is really underrated by almost every other carry so u can dominate your lane quiet early (mostly at lvl 2 with your steroid) and as Sufficiency said since u can go 25 armpen on him he hits like a truck : O | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
I've been starting Boots + 3 pots in farming lanes (soraka/sona) and LongSword + 2 pots in kill lanes (taric/leona). Beserkers Greaves, 1-2 Dorans Blades and Vamp Scepter every game unless I can rush a BF and still have $ for pots. Bloodthirster is still IMO mandatory first major item especially after its buff to 70 (+30) damage. Now the new attack speed items have a few viable options: Phantom Dancer: 50% attack speed, 30% critical chance, 5% movement speed >> Still a classic item for any AD carry and best when paired with Infinity Edge. Runann's Hurricane: 70% attack speed, auto attacks hit 2 extra targets for 10 + 50% AD >> Never bought this item on Draven and it doesn't feel very strong on him. Sword of the Divine: 45% attack speed, Active: 100% critical chance & attack speed for 3 seconds or 3 attacks. >> This has been my goto item after BT on Draven every game. It fits his playstyle perfectly. Explanation: Draven benefits from AD and Spinning axes as his primary source of damage and his spinning axes proc his passive. Draven is not a standard auto-attacker in that he wants to continue to juggle axes to keep his damage high. This means he benefits less from attack speed than let's say Ashe (you're only going to get 1 auto-attack between axes anyway). When he can't catch his axes his damage falls off from other AD carries. That's when you can activate SotD's ability. Always try to enter fights with 2 spinning axes ready. Keep juggling them during the fight as long as feasible. Once you drop all your spinning axes activate SotD and you will continue to burst down anyone. The guaranteed crits mean you'll proc his passive 3 times and they stack! You'll also gain massive heals from BT. At this point your next spinning ax should be ready so you're never punished for SotD being on cool down like normal AD carries. Hope everyone starts wreaking house with Draven because I'd love to see him in some tournaments soon. I'd also like to hear anyone else's thoughts on him. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
I typically skill Q>W>Q then try to trade at level 3 with double axes. Is this wrong? Should I skill Q>E>Q instead for the CC? Has anyone had success going in at level 1 with just double axes? | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On September 18 2013 21:54 Ghost-z wrote: Ok, I can't seem to make draven work for me any more since Riot changed his passive to bonus gold instead of the bleed. I just can't seem to finish people off and lose fights while they get away with low health. I'm beginning to think that if you can't score the first blood in your lane then you pretty much lose as draven because his new passive is very snowbally both for and against you. Ignite seems like a must in order to secure that first kill but barrier beats it. I typically skill Q>W>Q then try to trade at level 3 with double axes. Is this wrong? Should I skill Q>E>Q instead for the CC? Has anyone had success going in at level 1 with just double axes? I dont think the bleed was as big as people say, besides his main steroid is the obnoxious like + 300 ad youre getting from his axes lategame anyways imo. E is REALLY strong which people dont seem to realize, its an utterly obnoxious fucking skill. mini stun + knockback + damage yes pls. you can poke them anytime with axes and should be able to outtrade almost anyone, and if you manage a kill on them or the support or something, then you can really snowball pretty stupidly hard. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
Losing the bleed was huge. Like realllly freaking huge. I went from getting first blood nearly every game (often times with my support doing almost nothing) to practically never getting it. The real problem is Draven's level 1-3 isn't that scary anymore. It's extremely easy to not even have to recall from it and even if they do recall, applying enough damage after their recall to get the kill pre-6 is extremely difficult. By and large Draven has to sit and auto. He's much less compelling when lane domination is extremely difficult to achieve, because his steroids are conditional. I generally go Q>E>Q, but I have had problems finishing off kills too, so I do not think it is necessarily your skill order causing the problems. I'll give him a whirl again since Vayne can't condemn me before I can auto her now, and Twitch isn't as obnoxious. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Losing 30 + (4 × level) bonus physical damage from his passive is actually huge at early levels. His two axe combo at level 1 lost 68 damage! Essentially since draven never built crit until mid/late we can look at his passive change as a direct nerf to his Q damage. If you were good at catching axes you basically lost over 30 AD per hit. He's still going to truck people with axes when fed though but his early game got hit hard. I'm going to try several games where I don't trade during levels 1-3 and instead wait until 5 or 6 depending on the matchup. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On September 22 2013 01:29 Tooplark wrote: Has anyone tried Triforce Draven? He seems like he could use the triforce proc and most of the stats really well, but the AP and mana kind of go to waste. the ADC on my team likes going bt-> trinity on draven, and he seems to be stomping with it. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
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