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+ Show Spoiler +Sejuani is still new to LoL, but she has quickly become one of my favorites. The power curve is really fun to play; she is so weak at early levels she can barely clear the jungle, and then once you get a few items she goes berserk. I only jungle her, and will add a lane guide if someone posts one, or a link. And this jungle guide is my low elo way to play sejuani, if others have different ideas I can change what guide is in the first post.
Sejuani, the Winter's Wrath
![[image loading]](http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/January_2012/2012_01_14_sejuani_reveal/Sejuani_splash0_thumb.jpg)
Abilities - (R-E-W-Q, first 3 lvls are W-Q-W for jungle)
Frost (passive) - Sejuani's basic attacks apply Frost, reducing enemy Movement Speed by 10% for 3 seconds.
+ Show Spoiler +
Q: Arctic Assault - Sejuani charges forward to deal magic damage and apply Frost to enemies. Sejuani stops upon colliding with an enemy champion.
+ Show Spoiler +great for escape, initiation, and getting a frost charge to permafrost (like trynd's spin move)
W: Northern Winds - Sejuani summons an arctic storm around her which deals magic damage to nearby enemies every second. Damage is increased against enemies affected by Frost or Permafrost.
+ Show Spoiler +(like shyvana's aoe) Starts out feeling very weak, damage becomes noticeable, and quite good, later on.
E: Permafrost - Sejuani converts Frost on nearby enemies to Permafrost, dealing magic damage and increasing the Movement Speed reduction dramatically.
+ Show Spoiler +amazing slow throughout the game, and by the time you max it, the damage is decent too in the midgame.
R: Glacial Prison (Ultimate) - Sejuani throws her weapon, stunning the first enemy champion hit. Nearby enemies are stunned for a shorter duration. All targets take magic damage and are affected by Frost.
+ Show Spoiler +One of the best ults in the game imo. the aoe is quite large, and the range is solid.
Items - for jungle
cloth + 5 pots
philo
merc treads/ninja tabi
glacial
randuin
shurelias
abyssal
sunfire
Masteries: I run 9/21/0
Runes: I'm not sure what the optimal set up is. I use +18% attack speed (i dont think sejuani can jungle with less then 15% attack speed, or equivalent), some arpen, armor, mres, move speed, +health. Someone else probably has a better sense of what is the best rune page.
Overall:
Sejuani is an interesting jungle choice atm. The CC she has is nearly unrivaled, but that is balanced by her early game weakness. As for clear speed, she is slow til 4 or 5 and then she becomes one of the 3 or 4 fastest for the rest of the game. even clearing huge waves of creeps in a lane is ez with one q-w-e combo.
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When do you start ganks with her in the jungle? I mostly lane her (bot) but I have jungled her and sometimes I just afk jungle till 6 then do ganks but sometimes lanes need help and she clears so slow to start with  But then again I always use my Tank rune page and generally have no real sense of what to do in the jungle. I also tend to get a Shyrelias and also like Frozen Heart for armor/CDR and neglect stuff like atmas and get FM relatively late. Though that build is kinda gimped when you have derp teammates who can't kill people even though your a raging cc bot from hell who can't die but does crappy dmg lol.
Any tips on how to jungle more efficiently/quicker would be awesome.
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- for runes i mention attack speed. 15% is minimum for decent first clear.
- that first blue can leave you at 50% health for the rest of your first clear. ask whoever leashes to just help you kill it, and then smite when it gets to 400 hp. this helps a lot.
- W-Q-W-E is the best for fast jungle clearing imo. by 5 clear time wont be an issue anymore. use q to zoom into all the creeps at a camp, hit w when you are almost done moving, and then hit e for the aoe damage. all the creeps explode. this is my sejuani combo, very fun to pull off on an escaping enemy. one thing is i start regrowth - boots - philo - mercs. right after mercs get a health crystal. you can build this into many different items (HoG, Warmogs, Fromal), and it will instantly bump your jungle clear time with W damage.
- as for ganking, i go back to my original view on sejuani: weak early, strong late. Its like skarner, if you see an opening, especially if you have red, go for it and try to get an assist at least (pre 6), and then once you hit 6 you can roam at will. You only need 1 kill before 6 to be even in levels with solo lanes, and more often then not that is doable (or at least 1 or 2 assists, which are not as good, but close).
- if a lane needs help and you have to go before 6, just use the q-w-e combo on the enemy champ, preferably when they are pushed a bit, and then autoattack like crazy. pre 6 i dont expect this to get a kill, unless my teammate has a stun, but if i can get them to waste a flash then it can take some pressure off the lane.
- sejuani can be built as a CC tank like you do, with cdr and armor etc. but you mention the downside which is that you rely on your team to kill people. if i dont get fed early then ill fall back on a more tanky role.
- but if i do get fed then i find i snowball easily. how do you know you're fed? a ~18 minute warmog suddenly makes you very difficult to kill that early in the game. stacking health increases your survivability and your W damage. Warmog+fro mal+atmas is not insane damage, but squishys melt at a satisfying enough rate considering they are perma slowed. If you hit your target so they have frost then your W will be ticking for 300-400 per tick + 250 ad autoattacks.
- even when im fed and carrying i find my scores to be something like 8-3-20 like the game i just played, sejuani's no powerhouse, but the ok damage combined with perma slow and aoe stun is potent. sejuani has a similiar ability to punish teams that dont position well kind of like skarner, too.
- about my jungle route: start wolves/blue in any order. after those go wraiths, golems (pop your health pot here), then red buff. if your leash was bad you might have to b here. i think this is by design, sejuani with red that early in the game is op. if you are around half health you still cant gank but you can go do wraiths and then wolves again. i b here and buy boots or philo. now is a good time to gank. go do golems and gank that lane, or wolves and gank the opposite side. around 6:15 your jungle should be clear and you can gank if you want, you should be lvl 5.5 here, and have philo and boots + wards. around 7:15 go do wolves again and then blue and you are 6. once you are 6 ganking and clear times are both much improved and the game should be a bit smoother.
The thing i keep in mind while jungling sejuani (and really any jungler that clears fast, which sejuani does after the brutal first few lvls), is that you can clear the jungle so fast that you have EXTRA time to gank in between jungle spawns. this means even if you start off behind (equal to the duo lanes in xp), through post 6 ganks you can eventually catch up and equal if not surpass the solo lanes in level. this is why the game is not over if your team feeds in the first few minutes. ive played 40+ games with sejuani and the power curve and xp level curve seem very pronounced to me.
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Thanks for the reply! I think what I have trouble with most is mana once mid starts wanting blue, that and getting better at minimizing the hp I lose to camps. She is such a beast late game though omg her ult soo good :D
I will try the attack speed runes though.
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United States37500 Posts
Runes should be AS Marks, Flat Armor Seals, MR/Level Glyphs, your pick of Quints (I'd personally go with MS).
Do not buy Mallet or Rylai's, those are horrible items for someone who not only slows on auto but also has a gap closer.
Also FoN over Banshee's if you need MR.
For Jungle, WQWEER, R > E > W > Q is correct.
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if i dont have blue and am clearing jungle camps in the midgame i only use W, and autoattack a different creep everytime so they all get frost. just refresh W when the cd is up. its reasonably fast, and conserves mana. philo also helps a lot, wriggles just isnt necessary on sejuani for clear speed.
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p.s. if you wanna be a dick do ashe sejuani bot lane and max permafrost
Permafrost has like 1000 range and Volley and Frost Arrow both have pretty long. Sejuani also makes ganking super easy, she can roam or counterjungle well, and she has reasonable utility with low farm (long range aoe stun and good peeling).
Northern Winds is her worst skill for teamfights anyways (who needs damage huehue).
Oh and Ashe arrow Sejuani ult or permafrost is pure amusement.
Downsides: probably still loses to support/carry, leaves team somewhat lacking in damage, Sejuani doesn't scale too well
THIS DOESN'T WORK
ashe frost arrow doesn't let you permafrost things
very sad
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Mallet is worthless on her because if you hit someone they are already dead. Replace it with a hog->randuins. MUCH better distribution of stats that she likes.
Personally, my build ends up looking more like philo-boots-hog, with the final build (against a balanced team) being
Boots, Glacial, Randuins, Shurelias, abyssal, and some form of extra health, usually a sunfire.
I think it is very important not to get sucked into the "look her w does damage based on health" thing and completely ignore the fact that EHP is much more valuable than HP. Not to mention my build does a fair amount of damage but also brings MUCH more team utility to the table, and makes me basically unkillable.
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I really find her W to be a weak clearing spell. I prefer to go WQEE, R>E>W>Q, allows you to burst down small camps at level 4. She clears really slow nonetheless. I feel like without blue you cannot clear fast and have mana for ganking so when I play her I have been running regrowth start into philo because she really needs mana, but that still doesnt feel like enough so I have been experimenting with dorans rings, chalice and fiendish ...and as trolol as that sounds I really liked it. I wish the path was a little cheaper but I find both Morellos and Nashors to be good items. I also get HoG early
If I go Morello route I like to go Wits End for AS, the games I have gone Nashors I just grab a Negatron if I need to.
So I have been trying the regrowth - philo - boots - HoG - Boots 2/Fiendish Codex - armor or MR - Morellos or Nashors (depending on how much money I have, how the game is going, Nashors being my first choice,) Wits End if Morellos, Negatron if Nashors, finish Shurelyas and Randuins, Negatron into FoN if not Wits End build
Good survivability in all areas, fair amount of damage, 40% CDR (which I find a necessity,) double GP5 jungle, enough MP5, AS
End build being Mercs, Shurelyas, Randuins, Nashors, FoN +1
I also think Locket could be a good choice instead of Randuins in which case you could get an Atmas as your last item or before FoN etc.
I'm only at 1400 so
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On February 07 2012 00:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
Runes should be AS Marks, Flat Armor Seals, MR/Level Glyphs, your pick of Quints (I'd personally go with MS).
Do not buy Mallet or Rylai's, those are horrible items for someone who not only slows on auto but also has a gap closer.
Also FoN over Banshee's if you need MR.
For Jungle, WQWEER, R > E > W > Q is correct.
I prefer getting E at lvl 3 and not skilling W again until you can't skill E or R... the clear speed is slightly faster for small camps b/c of the Q->W->E burst, but slower for a big camp, however, it is worth the ability to gank at lvl 3, and have stronger ganks overall for the next few levels.
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On February 07 2012 04:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Mallet is worthless on her because if you hit someone they are already dead. Replace it with a hog->randuins. MUCH better distribution of stats that she likes.
Personally, my build ends up looking more like philo-boots-hog, with the final build (against a balanced team) being
Boots, Glacial, Randuins, Shurelias, abyssal, and some form of extra health, usually a sunfire.
I think it is very important not to get sucked into the "look her w does damage based on health" thing and completely ignore the fact that EHP is much more valuable than HP. Not to mention my build does a fair amount of damage but also brings MUCH more team utility to the table, and makes me basically unkillable.
this looks like a good build. i think ill try it. my build ends up in basically the same spot - unkillable and decent damage, but yours does have way more extra stuff going on with items.
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Yea Randuins is really good on her. I do somewhat he does but I don't get an abyssal and instead get 2 hp items (warmogs and sunfire usually or like a BV if I need the MR).
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vaporized so whats a good laning item build? no jungle
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Is attack speed reds really the best jungle option?
I use either armor reds yellows quints / MR/18 blues or armor red quints HP yellows MR/18 blues. She is weak to counter jungling regardless of what you do and the extra amor helps a lot since you buy nothing but HP and regen for a very long time.
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Starting regrowth is so dangerous, she goes really low hp, people already like to invade Sejuani because she is just not a strong duelist, I think cloth 5 is the better option, just for the safety of the first clear.
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ASPD runes are a must. Otherwise the initial clear is incredibly slow and you end up with lower life then if you had tanky runes.
The current path that I've been going with (starting regrowth) is wolves, blue, wraiths, wolves, wraiths, red, golems. You get pretty low but it sets you up nicely for a philo and boots when you b.
I think Sejuani would be very viable if she wasn't so awful if she gets countered jungle which any decent jungler already knows.
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sorry didnt see the thread bumped, and sejuani deserves better. i updated the items section and agree that cloth + 5 and aspd runes make the early levels more manageable (i wouldnt jungle without them).
sejuani is still one of my favorites. her power curve is crazy. she goes from one of the weaker pre-6 champs to beastly levels by end game as long as your team is competent.
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So, Sejuani loses top lane pretty hard to:
Rumble
Udyr
Wukong
Swain
Fedora
Jarman
among others.
Her W doesn't do enough damage at early levels to be worth 4 seconds of creep aggro, or even just 4 seconds of straight up fighting against most other top lanes. She can't outpush anyone because she has to be in the middle of creeps to push at all, and they can just walk up and hit her and win the trade. She has no sustain either, so she loses top to just about everyone.
Maxing E might have better results however.
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Magneto I understood, but who is Fedora? @_@
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On March 27 2012 05:37 Alaric wrote:
Magneto I understood, but who is Fedora? @_@
Really? I didn't mean to write magneto I was watching MvC2 lol
Fedora is Fiora.
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I tought it was Kennen. 
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So, despite what a lot of people are saying about how Mallet is bad for Sejuani, this is how I build her and why:
I don't think much of "support" junglers, i.e. junglers whose damage falls behind and ends up being irrelevant in the late game- I think playing like that is a disservice to your team. So, I looked around for ways to make Sejuani's damage relevant later in the game. Her physical stats aren't too hot, mostly due to a low native attack speed growth. More importantly, there are no obvious synergies with physical stats in any of her skills. Her AP ratios aren't terrible, but I've found that building AP on her doesn't feel very useful either. What I DID like about her, is the max health scaling on her W- at 2% of her max health per second, it's significant and presents an interesting synergy on which to base her item build.
I build her 21/9/0 with AS marks, Armor seals, MR/level glyphs and ArPen quints
Regrowth Pendant + potion to start the jungle
Upgrade to Philo stone
Get boots1
Build Funfire
Finish Merc Treads
Get a Null-magic Mantle or Negatron for some more MR (more on this later)
Build Frozen Mallet
Build Atmog's
Finish with an MR item, either FoN, Wit's End of Maw of Mawamiwamortimaws
Your W should hit like a truck, and if you add up the damage you get from her other skills and her autoattack, you manage to stay relevant damage-wise, while having colossal levels of health and survivability as well as good CC.
Some people have spoken out against Mallet on her, but I disagree. The 10% slow on her autoattack is nice, but nowhere near as powerful as the 40% slow on Mallet; the item also gives good survivability AND offense because a fair amount of her damage will scale off of her max health (her W and the damage from Atma's). As to getting Atmog's, I'm not a big fan of the combo ever since the nerfs that have hit it, but I think it still makes sense if you're going to be building a lot of health on a champion like Sejuani who has another offensive synergy with max health.
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On May 04 2012 06:29 Zato-1 wrote:
So, despite what a lot of people are saying about how Mallet is bad for Sejuani, this is how I build her and why:
I don't think much of "support" junglers, i.e. junglers whose damage falls behind and ends up being irrelevant in the late game- I think playing like that is a disservice to your team. So, I looked around for ways to make Sejuani's damage relevant later in the game. Her physical stats aren't too hot, mostly due to a low native attack speed growth. More importantly, there are no obvious synergies with physical stats in any of her skills. Her AP ratios aren't terrible, but I've found that building AP on her doesn't feel very useful either. What I DID like about her, is the max health scaling on her W- at 2% of her max health per second, it's significant and presents an interesting synergy on which to base her item build.
I build her 21/9/0 with AS marks, Armor seals, MR/level glyphs and ArPen quints
Regrowth Pendant + potion to start the jungle
Upgrade to Philo stone
Get boots1
Build Funfire
Finish Merc Treads
Get a Null-magic Mantle or Negatron for some more MR (more on this later)
Build Frozen Mallet
Build Atmog's
Finish with an MR item, either FoN, Wit's End of Maw of Mawamiwamortimaws
Your W should hit like a truck, and if you add up the damage you get from her other skills and her autoattack, you manage to stay relevant damage-wise, while having colossal levels of health and survivability as well as good CC.
Some people have spoken out against Mallet on her, but I disagree. The 10% slow on her autoattack is nice, but nowhere near as powerful as the 40% slow on Mallet; the item also gives good survivability AND offense because a fair amount of her damage will scale off of her max health (her W and the damage from Atma's). As to getting Atmog's, I'm not a big fan of the combo ever since the nerfs that have hit it, but I think it still makes sense if you're going to be building a lot of health on a champion like Sejuani who has another offensive synergy with max health.
I'm not pro, far from it, but this feels so wrong to me that I don't even know where to start.
First, the whole build is extremly expensive. It takes already quite some time for a solotop to farm atmogs and you advocate getting it after items (sunfire and mallet) that already cost as much as atmogs, and on a jungler's income. Unless you get super fed or the game last forever, it's not going to happen.
Second, the recipee for Mallet and Sunfire basically only gives you the passive, the base stats remain more or less the same. Sunfire gives clearing power which Sejunai doesn't need at all. The damage from sunfire isn't so high in teamfights, and it falls off as the game goes on.
Mallet gives a slow, but Sejunai already slows with her AA, slows even more with permafrost. If you can get one AA, you will be a pain in the ass to kite. Mallet doesn't help you get that first AA.
So overall I think you'd be spending 1625 gold for things that are already nicely covered by Sejuani's kit.
Next, you're stacking a lot of healths, it makes your W hurt a lot more, but unless amumum's W, Sejunai's W has a down time. It stays on for 5 seconds, with a 10 seconds cooldown. Your build has little or no CDR (4% from masteries?) which means your W is down half the time. I'd much prefer to get 21 def masteries, glacial shroud/frozen heart and shurelya's reverie to get close to max CDR which is a 1 second downtime. Sure, the damage is lower, but you still have the base damage + scaling from base health and shurelya's health, which isn't that bad.
You get atma's where again 1600g are about getting crits and more ad. You've already said your kit has no synergy with ad and your base attack speed is low, so I have no clue why you would want to get that.
Same deal with maw of malmortius, you spend more golds getting ad than MR, when you make little use of ad to begin with. If you want (and can afford it) a MR item than will help you deal more damage late game you're much better off getting an abyssal scepter. You get a nice chunk of MR, all your spells are magical AoE so you have good chances to hit squishies who will be more affected by the MR reduction than by getting another health item. The AP doesn't really go to waste since all of your spells have an AP ratio. On top of that your AP carry will love you.
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i dont really play sejauni much anymore because she is so reliant on her team and she doesnt carry in the same sense that a skarner, shyvana, or even hecarim do out of the jungle. i jungle to carry like zato does. i havent played sej much since the ult cd buff, so maybe that helped.
as for the build philo, hog, mercs, mallet, atmogs is still my standard. it makes u super tanky and u do decent damage. i dont get sunfire. FH is great for armor and cdr.
the mallet is actually very important. with mallet no one will escape. without it, it is possible to get away.
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On May 04 2012 09:03 NpG)Explosive wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 06:29 Zato-1 wrote:
So, despite what a lot of people are saying about how Mallet is bad for Sejuani, this is how I build her and why:
I don't think much of "support" junglers, i.e. junglers whose damage falls behind and ends up being irrelevant in the late game- I think playing like that is a disservice to your team. So, I looked around for ways to make Sejuani's damage relevant later in the game. Her physical stats aren't too hot, mostly due to a low native attack speed growth. More importantly, there are no obvious synergies with physical stats in any of her skills. Her AP ratios aren't terrible, but I've found that building AP on her doesn't feel very useful either. What I DID like about her, is the max health scaling on her W- at 2% of her max health per second, it's significant and presents an interesting synergy on which to base her item build.
I build her 21/9/0 with AS marks, Armor seals, MR/level glyphs and ArPen quints
Regrowth Pendant + potion to start the jungle
Upgrade to Philo stone
Get boots1
Build Funfire
Finish Merc Treads
Get a Null-magic Mantle or Negatron for some more MR (more on this later)
Build Frozen Mallet
Build Atmog's
Finish with an MR item, either FoN, Wit's End of Maw of Mawamiwamortimaws
Your W should hit like a truck, and if you add up the damage you get from her other skills and her autoattack, you manage to stay relevant damage-wise, while having colossal levels of health and survivability as well as good CC.
Some people have spoken out against Mallet on her, but I disagree. The 10% slow on her autoattack is nice, but nowhere near as powerful as the 40% slow on Mallet; the item also gives good survivability AND offense because a fair amount of her damage will scale off of her max health (her W and the damage from Atma's). As to getting Atmog's, I'm not a big fan of the combo ever since the nerfs that have hit it, but I think it still makes sense if you're going to be building a lot of health on a champion like Sejuani who has another offensive synergy with max health. I'm not pro, far from it, but this feels so wrong to me that I don't even know where to start. First, the whole build is extremly expensive. It takes already quite some time for a solotop to farm atmogs and you advocate getting it after items (sunfire and mallet) that already cost as much as atmogs, and on a jungler's income. Unless you get super fed or the game last forever, it's not going to happen.
... how is this a problem, exactly? If you don't manage to build the whole item build (and you probably won't), then you just buy whatever you can afford. I listed the items in order for this purpose. Also, I'd like to point out that if you do good damage and kill things fast, you'll naturally get more gold as well.
On May 04 2012 09:03 NpG)Explosive wrote:Second, the recipee for Mallet and Sunfire basically only gives you the passive, the base stats remain more or less the same. Sunfire gives clearing power which Sejunai doesn't need at all. The damage from sunfire isn't so high in teamfights, and it falls off as the game goes on.
Mallet gives a slow, but Sejunai already slows with her AA, slows even more with permafrost. If you can get one AA, you will be a pain in the ass to kite. Mallet doesn't help you get that first AA.
So overall I think you'd be spending 1625 gold for things that are already nicely covered by Sejuani's kit.
You're missing the point of this build. I'm trying to build Sejuani as a bruiser that the enemy team can't ignore, damage-wise. The way I'm going to accomplish that is by relying heavily on Sejuani's W, which requires her to be stick to enemies for a while- something which her kit facilitates nicely. If I'm going to be playing like that, Sunfire's damage aura becomes immensely efficient offensively for the 800g price tag, and Mallet helps her chase while Permafrost and AA are on cooldown as well as being the second-most health for your item slot after Warmog's.
On May 04 2012 09:03 NpG)Explosive wrote:Next, you're stacking a lot of healths, it makes your W hurt a lot more, but unless amumum's W, Sejunai's W has a down time. It stays on for 5 seconds, with a 10 seconds cooldown. Your build has little or no CDR (4% from masteries?) which means your W is down half the time. I'd much prefer to get 21 def masteries, glacial shroud/frozen heart and shurelya's reverie to get close to max CDR which is a 1 second downtime. Sure, the damage is lower, but you still have the base damage + scaling from base health and shurelya's health, which isn't that bad.
I feel like you're just pointing out the obvious here. Yes, a build that is explicitly focused on offensive potential will be less focused on things like CDR and utility than other builds. I fail to see your point, however.
On May 04 2012 09:03 NpG)Explosive wrote:You get atma's where again 1600g are about getting crits and more ad. You've already said your kit has no synergy with ad and your base attack speed is low, so I have no clue why you would want to get that.
Same deal with maw of malmortius, you spend more golds getting ad than MR, when you make little use of ad to begin with. If you want (and can afford it) a MR item than will help you deal more damage late game you're much better off getting an abyssal scepter. You get a nice chunk of MR, all your spells are magical AoE so you have good chances to hit squishies who will be more affected by the MR reduction than by getting another health item. The AP doesn't really go to waste since all of your spells have an AP ratio. On top of that your AP carry will love you.
You know what 1650g gets you, offensively? About 45 AD (BF Sword). 1655g spent to complete Atma's here gives the build roughly 68 AD and 18% crit, which is worth something like 3300g worth of base items. Sure, Sejuani's skills don't have synergy with the AD stat, but Atma's has great synergy with max health, and this entire build revolves around offensive synergies with max health.
AD carries can get an IE, Phantom Dancer, Last Whisper, etc. Bruisers don't get to spend so heavily on offense; you need to spend more on items to help you survive, so offensive purchases need to be really efficient, gold-wise and item-slot-wise. Atma's Impaler, on a build that gets to roughly 4500 health, fits that criteria, and therefore makes a lot of sense.
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I don't see the point of building Mallet on Sejuani because if you're taking advantage of her W scaling for damage like you should be, and you acknowledge is your main source of damage, you're building a SUPER COST INEFFICIENT HP ITEM. I don't mind Sunfire on her because at least it's not as expensive as Mallet is and gives you some armor as well with not much less HP, but you really get so much more out of Reverie and Aegis for cheap cost effective HP and resists and utility that helps your team more.
Edit: Also, I just think it's obnoxious that you've decided you HATE THE TYPE OF JUNGLER SEJUANI IS so much you're forcing a build on her when it's obvious she's just not very good at it, especially with the Atma's nerf. She's Amumu with tits, not Nocturne.
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On May 04 2012 09:10 Vaporized wrote:
i dont really play sejauni much anymore because she is so reliant on her team and she doesnt carry in the same sense that a skarner, shyvana, or even hecarim do out of the jungle. i jungle to carry like zato does. i havent played sej much since the ult cd buff, so maybe that helped.
as for the build philo, hog, mercs, mallet, atmogs is still my standard. it makes u super tanky and u do decent damage. i dont get sunfire. FH is great for armor and cdr.
the mallet is actually very important. with mallet no one will escape. without it, it is possible to get away.
Give Sunfire a try. Lategame it's not as powerful, but I feel that it makes a big enough difference for when you get it that it makes sense for this build. One of the reasons I typically don't like Sunfire on my bruisers is that it has zero synergy with other offensive items (unlike AD, AS, Crit, ArPen, etc), but since I'm not building up my physical stats anyway, I find that's less of a problem. Super lategame, FH is probably superior to Sunfire, but Sunfire compensates with the midgame power it gives you IMO.
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On May 04 2012 10:57 Seiuchi wrote:
Edit: Also, I just think it's obnoxious that you've decided you HATE THE TYPE OF JUNGLER SEJUANI IS so much you're forcing a build on her when it's obvious she's just not very good at it, especially with the Atma's nerf. She's Amumu with tits, not Nocturne.
Actually, I have no idea if she's good with this build or not. For the past two months, my internet connection has been working like ass and my latency makes LoL unplayable for me, so I haven't been able to properly test this. Therefore, one of the things I can still do is come up with builds and stuff and share them. Of course, most of the responses I get heap shit on me and my build without ever having tried it. And I'm the one being obnoxious? Goddamn.
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Seiuchi's edit sums up my opinion quite well. You're trying to force Sejuani into something she's not.
On May 04 2012 10:50 Zato-1 wrote:
... how is this a problem, exactly? If you don't manage to build the whole item build (and you probably won't), then you just buy whatever you can afford. I listed the items in order for this purpose. Also, I'd like to point out that if you do good damage and kill things fast, you'll naturally get more gold as well.
This a problem in the sense that you want to buy a lot of stuff because it will go well with your atma's but if you never reach that point, it is much less cost effective.
On May 04 2012 10:50 Zato-1 wrote:
If I'm going to be playing like that, Sunfire's damage aura becomes immensely efficient offensively for the 800g price tag, and Mallet helps her chase while Permafrost and AA are on cooldown as well as being the second-most health for your item slot after Warmog's.
I have only played a few games as Sejuani so I can't tell how weak/strong her passive is stick to the target, but I think people need some really good MS buffs to outrun you if you can apply your passive. Also if for whatever reason you're not in range to auto attack, then shurelya's will be more effective than mallet.
On May 04 2012 10:50 Zato-1 wrote:
I feel like you're just pointing out the obvious here. Yes, a build that is explicitly focused on offensive potential will be less focused on things like CDR and utility than other builds. I fail to see your point, however.
My point is maybe getting CDR is smarter than getting more health at this point. As you've said ad carries build around getting ad, crit, AS and arpen because it's more efficient to get some of these stats than stacking only one of them. You don't see ad carries going boots into 3 BT and then only considering getting AS/crit. Similarly ap casters can build around scaling (usually ap), CDR and Mpen to improve their damage. CDR isn't so great if the cd on your main spells are so long that even if cd you have no garrantee that you'll get the chance to use them several times (very true for most ultimates) so your better off just maxing scaling and mpen. But for Sejunai, if you plan on doing most of your damage through your W, going from no CDR to max CDR means you have your W up 80% of the time instead of 50% of the time, it's a huge dirrence imo. Also notice I mentionned getting abyssal if you want more damage, rather than getting another health item. Getting that magic pen is going to do more for your damage than getting a bit more of health scaling.
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this is how I build her and why
Actually, I have no idea if she's good with this build or not
okay
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On May 04 2012 11:20 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 10:57 Seiuchi wrote:
Edit: Also, I just think it's obnoxious that you've decided you HATE THE TYPE OF JUNGLER SEJUANI IS so much you're forcing a build on her when it's obvious she's just not very good at it, especially with the Atma's nerf. She's Amumu with tits, not Nocturne. Actually, I have no idea if she's good with this build or not. For the past two months, my internet connection has been working like ass and my latency makes LoL unplayable for me, so I haven't been able to properly test this. Therefore, one of the things I can still do is come up with builds and stuff and share them. Of course, most of the responses I get heap shit on me and my build without ever having tried it. And I'm the one being obnoxious? Goddamn.
I've tried Mallet on Sejuani, it's just really bad. I've played like 100 games of her with various builds, but when it comes down to it she's most effective with support jungler builds because she's a support jungler and she has numbers that incentivize support jungler items. When you don't have a defensive steroid and your damage revolves around sitting on people with W on, your damage is linked to staying alive as much as possible with cost efficient items and having the CDR to always have W up, both of which your build fails at.
You're just going from a broken premise (all support junglers are shit, it's a shit build) when Maokai and Nautilus have been proven to be supremely effective with mostly the same build Sejuani goes (and Sejuani will too when she inevitably gets early jungle buffs because her problem isn't damage but how she's counterjungled). I mean, you could go Atmogs Amumu too, but it's not efficient.
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i just went 7-0-8 with fromal/atmogs juan. it is an effective build and you do respectable damage.
there is a place for support sejuani but i think if you get fed in the jungle (2-3 assists, and good cs, which past the first clear sejauni is very fast) then going a fromal/atmogs build is better.
going support on a jungle seems like a waste to me. with proper ganking (ie. only going to gank when u see a lane that is overextended, or your jungle is clear) it is possible to have very good cs on most junglers. i routinely am first in cs in the entire game on shyv, skarn, sejauni, hec, and can often be 100 cs ahead of the other jungle because i keep my jungle clear. ganking and getting kills EFFECIENTLY is my first priority, keeping my jungle clear is a close second. Having a farmed jungle who is a threat is a HUGE advantage if the other team's jungle went support. and the vast majority of the time it is possible to get farmed on a jungle. out of the ~300 or so jungle games ive played i would easily say 90% of those i am in the top 3 of farm in the game (gp5 if you dont get early kills works to increase farm also, and if you have an advantage then gp5 just puts you more in the lead).
i was farmed on sejuani in the game i just played and the other team would run from me. winning the game for your team is better then supporting them, especially at lower elo's.
edit: naut and maokai are different from sejuani in that they do not gain damage from building tank items. sejuani gains damage from building health. i think its fairly obvious that stacking health on her is intended to be a viable path and from ~40 games doing just that i can tell you it is viable.
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At lower elo 1300 her ganks are almost unfair  her.and naut are my fav junglers right.now.
On her i generally.go.the g10s with shyerlias and randuins. That with exhaust and some hp itema plus like the cdr item that builds into frozen heart and some mr. Their carries wont do shit in fights when your.running.smite exhaust plus raundins and all your cc. Plus your godly ult...sooo fun
I also dont quite get the need to build dmg on her. You will bw going aftrr squishies and you will do decent dmg to them cause they are by definition squishy. You wont be doing shit to tanks and minimal dmg to bruisers but your not the primary dmg dealer, its the carriea job to do dmg your job is disruption and peeling.
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On May 04 2012 12:37 Slaughter wrote:
I also dont quite get the need to build dmg on her. You will bw going aftrr squishies and you will do decent dmg to them cause they are by definition squishy. You wont be doing shit to tanks and minimal dmg to bruisers but your not the primary dmg dealer, its the carriea job to do dmg your job is disruption and peeling.
youre not building damage. you build health. which gives you damage and makes u tanky.
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On May 04 2012 12:30 Vaporized wrote:
i just went 7-0-8 with fromal/atmogs juan. it is an effective build and you do respectable damage.
there is a place for support sejuani but i think if you get fed in the jungle (2-3 assists, and good cs, which past the first clear sejauni is very fast) then going a fromal/atmogs build is better.
going support on a jungle seems like a waste to me. with proper ganking (ie. only going to gank when u see a lane that is overextended, or your jungle is clear) it is possible to have very good cs on most junglers. i routinely am first in cs in the entire game on shyv, skarn, sejauni, hec, and can often be 100 cs ahead of the other jungle because i keep my jungle clear. ganking and getting kills EFFECIENTLY is my first priority, keeping my jungle clear is a close second. Having a farmed jungle who is a threat is a HUGE advantage if the other team's jungle went support. and the vast majority of the time it is possible to get farmed on a jungle. out of the ~300 or so jungle games ive played i would easily say 90% of those i am in the top 3 of farm in the game (gp5 if you dont get early kills works to increase farm also, and if you have an advantage then gp5 just puts you more in the lead).
i was farmed on sejuani in the game i just played and the other team would run from me. winning the game for your team is better then supporting them, especially at lower elo's.
edit: naut and maokai are different from sejuani in that they do not gain damage from building tank items. sejuani gains damage from building health. i think its fairly obvious that stacking health on her is intended to be a viable path and from ~40 games doing just that i can tell you it is viable.
There's a difference between stacking health with items that amplify her effectiveness and are more cost effective and throwing money at HP which isn't helping her as much. Frozen Mallet's just really expensive when you're paying for things Sejuani doesn't need (AD, slow proc) and paying a lot more than value for something you do (HP). If you're tons of kills up on the enemy team, you can waste gold on less effective items and do well because you just have such a gold advantage, but you're not compounding it as much as you could.
Even if you get fed as Sejuani, you're still adding more value to the team by adding a faster Aegis or faster Frozen Heart or Randuin's because you just completely sit in the middle of their team and wreck them. Even Sunfire's is more efficient at that point as a luxury item for damage and survivability.
You're hitting 200 damage a second of W at that point regardless, so instead of some crappy AD you don't even use effectively because you're not building AS and lack armor pen, just live longer and use your abilities more.
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On May 04 2012 12:02 Seiuchi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 11:20 Zato-1 wrote:On May 04 2012 10:57 Seiuchi wrote:
Edit: Also, I just think it's obnoxious that you've decided you HATE THE TYPE OF JUNGLER SEJUANI IS so much you're forcing a build on her when it's obvious she's just not very good at it, especially with the Atma's nerf. She's Amumu with tits, not Nocturne. Actually, I have no idea if she's good with this build or not. For the past two months, my internet connection has been working like ass and my latency makes LoL unplayable for me, so I haven't been able to properly test this. Therefore, one of the things I can still do is come up with builds and stuff and share them. Of course, most of the responses I get heap shit on me and my build without ever having tried it. And I'm the one being obnoxious? Goddamn. I've tried Mallet on Sejuani, it's just really bad. I've played like 100 games of her with various builds, but when it comes down to it she's most effective with support jungler builds because she's a support jungler and she has numbers that incentivize support jungler items. When you don't have a defensive steroid and your damage revolves around sitting on people with W on, your damage is linked to staying alive as much as possible with cost efficient items and having the CDR to always have W up, both of which your build fails at.
In terms of damage CDR is highly, highly overrated on every champion in the game not named Ryze. On Sej you'll get more damage from stacking atmogs than you ever would from a defensive CDR build. Even champs like Skarner who have multiple cdr effects do less damage with CDR based builds than simple onhit tanky builds. You find that your build is effective but that's because a support jungler is more reliant on team utility than damage output and there are only three ways to improve your utility in this game: stay alive, aura/active items, and CDR.
You're just going from a broken premise (all support junglers are shit, it's a shit build) when Maokai and Nautilus have been proven to be supremely effective with mostly the same build Sejuani goes (and Sejuani will too when she inevitably gets early jungle buffs because her problem isn't damage but how she's counterjungled). I mean, you could go Atmogs Amumu too, but it's not efficient.
The difference is amumu doesn't scale with HP. The rational for atmogs sejuani is "my W scales with HP and I'm getting tons of HP, I might as well grab an atma's since with 3k HP it's an efficient item". Personally, I think it *could* work if Sejuani ever becomes viable top lane, but from the jungle? That seems pretty suspect.
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i have no problem getting farmed on sejuani and completing fromal and atmogs in a normal game. i start philo mercs hog. i prefer playing jungles where gp5 works instead of wriggles because that double gp5 is a huge advantage. i go wqwe, and then max e from that point. you clear waves of minions or small camps in one q-w-e combo. you farm so fucking fast and max e is good for ganking and actually getting kills also.
i would argue that fromal is actually cost effective on sejuani in that it amplifies her overall ability to do her job, its like it makes her entire kit better. with fromal nothing will escape, ever. this makes getting kills for yourself and your team easier. your auto attacks are instantly a 50% slow. that is a huge advantage, and if you cant see that then you havent tried it.
i rush fromal first after gp5, thats how core i consider it. you can dominate with fromal on sejuani. ive had games where i go 17-0, try doing that with aegis. with hog and fromal your w does a lot of damage, with the slow from fromal + sejuani's abilities it is impossible to get away. not to mention that if the game goes in your favor and you have 3k hp at 20-25 minutes and 3.5-4k at 30 min when you add warmog, you are pretty damn hard to kill (its already tough to kill me with just hog and fromal, and then adding warmog makes it silly).
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Is this a real hero or a myth? Never seen her played but that's because I started playing again a month or two after she was released.
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On May 04 2012 14:32 Vaporized wrote:
i have no problem getting farmed on sejuani and completing fromal and atmogs in a normal game. i start philo mercs hog. i prefer playing jungles where gp5 works instead of wriggles because that double gp5 is a huge advantage. i go wqwe, and then max e from that point. you clear waves of minions or small camps in one q-w-e combo. you farm so fucking fast and max e is good for ganking and actually getting kills also.
i would argue that fromal is actually cost effective on sejuani in that it amplifies her overall ability to do her job, its like it makes her entire kit better. with fromal nothing will escape, ever. this makes getting kills for yourself and your team easier. your auto attacks are instantly a 50% slow. that is a huge advantage, and if you cant see that then you havent tried it.
i rush fromal first after gp5, thats how core i consider it. you can dominate with fromal on sejuani. ive had games where i go 17-0, try doing that with aegis. with hog and fromal your w does a lot of damage, with the slow from fromal + sejuani's abilities it is impossible to get away.
You can have an Aegis and a Giant's Belt for the cost of a Frozen Mallet, have more HP, and actually have resistance values to last longer in fights and help your team. Sejuani has enough CC where targets shouldn't be escaping regardless of another slow. It's not like I haven't tried it, it's just not as good as another build path.
On May 04 2012 13:32 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 12:02 Seiuchi wrote:On May 04 2012 11:20 Zato-1 wrote:On May 04 2012 10:57 Seiuchi wrote:
Edit: Also, I just think it's obnoxious that you've decided you HATE THE TYPE OF JUNGLER SEJUANI IS so much you're forcing a build on her when it's obvious she's just not very good at it, especially with the Atma's nerf. She's Amumu with tits, not Nocturne. Actually, I have no idea if she's good with this build or not. For the past two months, my internet connection has been working like ass and my latency makes LoL unplayable for me, so I haven't been able to properly test this. Therefore, one of the things I can still do is come up with builds and stuff and share them. Of course, most of the responses I get heap shit on me and my build without ever having tried it. And I'm the one being obnoxious? Goddamn. I've tried Mallet on Sejuani, it's just really bad. I've played like 100 games of her with various builds, but when it comes down to it she's most effective with support jungler builds because she's a support jungler and she has numbers that incentivize support jungler items. When you don't have a defensive steroid and your damage revolves around sitting on people with W on, your damage is linked to staying alive as much as possible with cost efficient items and having the CDR to always have W up, both of which your build fails at. In terms of damage CDR is highly, highly overrated on every champion in the game not named Ryze. On Sej you'll get more damage from stacking atmogs than you ever would from a defensive CDR build. Even champs like Skarner who have multiple cdr effects do less damage with CDR based builds than simple onhit tanky builds. You find that your build is effective but that's because a support jungler is more reliant on team utility than damage output and there are only three ways to improve your utility in this game: stay alive, aura/active items, and CDR. Show nested quote +You're just going from a broken premise (all support junglers are shit, it's a shit build) when Maokai and Nautilus have been proven to be supremely effective with mostly the same build Sejuani goes (and Sejuani will too when she inevitably gets early jungle buffs because her problem isn't damage but how she's counterjungled). I mean, you could go Atmogs Amumu too, but it's not efficient. The difference is amumu doesn't scale with HP. The rational for atmogs sejuani is "my W scales with HP and I'm getting tons of HP, I might as well grab an atma's since with 3k HP it's an efficient item". Personally, I think it *could* work if Sejuani ever becomes viable top lane, but from the jungle? That seems pretty suspect.
As far as the CDR argument goes, 4 more seconds of uptime of Northern Winds to have it only down 1 second between casts at 160-180 damage in an AoE should do more damage than AD from some Atmallet build off the top of my head, but I'd have to run the numbers. That's in addition to the extra utility you're getting from less CD between ult and more Es.
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i added a part about the hp you gain and how tanky that makes u. if you have aegis why would anyone target you in the first place? sejuani is not a priority target for anyone, and like i said, i rarely die after i get fromal. im perfectly willing to be persuaded that fromal is bad, but nothing you have said has changed my mind.
ive found that sejuani is weak early, you depend on your team to assist you in getting kills. if you get those kills or assists, u just need like 2, and get a small advantage (early gp5) you can snowball and carry hard. i was surprised a champ like sejuani has that capability, but she definetly does, i do it game after game. and aegis isnt the way to get there. if youre not interested in exploiting sejuani's potential then fine, but she is certainly not just a support jungle.
hog + fromal rush makes you SUPER tanky at that point in that game. if the teams are fairly even it will take a focused effort to bring you down. and then when the other team's damage is able to cut through your hp (shock! it happens around the time you finish warmog) then you add resists and you remain near unkillable.
there are not many (any?) other champs that can build straight hp and also increase their damage at the same time. it is a unique ability of sejuani and i take advantage of that.
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On May 04 2012 14:51 Vaporized wrote:
i added a part about the hp you gain and how tanky that makes u. if you have aegis why would anyone target you in the first place? sejuani is not a priority target for anyone, and like i said, i rarely die after i get fromal. im perfectly willing to be persuaded that fromal is bad, but nothing you have said has changed my mind.
ive found that sejuani is weak early, you depend on your team to assist you in getting kills. if you get those kills or assists, u just need like 2, and get a small advantage (early gp5) you can snowball and carry hard. i was surprised a champ like sejuani has that capability, but she definetly does, i do it game after game. and aegis isnt the way to get there. if youre not interested in exploiting sejuani's potential then fine, but she is certainly not just a support jungle.
hog + fromal rush makes you SUPER tanky at that point in that game. and then when the other team's damage is able to cut through your hp (shock! it happens around the time you finish warmog) then you add resists and you remain near unkillable.
But HoG + Aegis + Giant's Belt makes you tankier for the same gold. All Frozen Mallet does is give you 10 more AD and the proc for losing the entire Aegis aura and resistances. If you want to say Frozen Mallet feels tanky and Aegis doesn't allow you to carry that's fine, but there's nothing gold and stat wise that actually supports that.
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you get the same hp with aegis or fromal. so it comes down to the proc. and to me the proc is worth losing the resistances. aegis is a midgame item. it is not a best in slot item, thats not to say that it isnt good or useful in many situations, just that it is investing in the short term not the long.
fromal i would argue is a best in slot hp item in that it gives the 2nd most hp of any item. this is a long term item that regardless of what else happens i would not replace with anything. the gp5 i love so much is another long term investment. i sacrifice the early game in a lot of cases to make it so that when we get to mid and late game i have a gold advantage. i play macro zerg in sc2 and 'macro' LoL also. i like champs that are weak early but as close to unstoppable juggernauts as possible in the mid and late game.
in other words an aegis would just set back my powerhouse 6 item build which is the ultimate goal of everything i do. i figure if i get those items it gives me the best chance of winning of this game. specifically in solo que controlling what you do, and trying to mold the game to progress how you want it to, are extremely important to overall winning percentages i think. my team can be losing when i get sheen on skarner. but just by looking at the game timer i know if we will win that game or not because skarner with sheen early enough is op. you do ridiculous damage compared to what other people do.
for those reasons i am philosohically against aegis.
when i read about sejuani i wanted a champ that could perma slow someone. it seemed like she should have, based on her kit, the best cc in the game. and that should by defintion be op (and i dont mean literally op, i mean able to be advantageously expoloited at certain times and with certain builds with the right knowledge). without fromal sejuani has certainly some of the best cc in the game, better then the majority of champs for sure. but some champs are better. with fromal i would argue sejuani has the best cc in the game. and for that reason the proc + health makes fromal an ideal core item.
you can be caught between cooldowns, and someone could get away. the fromal acts as a buffer. the two forms of cc cover for each other. if your abilities got a slow off then great. autoattacking now means they are dead if u have a teammate with u. if you for any reason cant get an ability off, then autoattack slows them, and then when abilities are up u lock them down. some champs have move speed buffs or flash skills or a large number of ways that 10% movement speed reduction from AA wont be enough for you to catch them. a 50% AA snare is brutal.
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Slows don't stack that way. It's not 40% + 10%, it's 40% + (10% * .65) which is 43.5%. There are plenty of jungle champs that scale better than Sejuani does late game. The major limitation for champion scaling is their kit and their lane, not how many GP10 items you stack. You could build GP10 and full AD on your support Soraka "for the late game" but that doesn't mean that you'll ever hit your 6 item build before the game ends and no matter what you do a vayne will do more damage than you with the same items.
Similarly, the jungler is pretty far behind solo lanes in farm unless he gets lots of successful ganks. In most of my jungle games I'm lucky if I finish my 3rd big item (such as after wriggles-hog-wit's) before the game is mostly decided, finishing a 6 item build is just a pipe dream most of the time.
On May 04 2012 14:40 Seiuchi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 13:32 phyvo wrote:On May 04 2012 12:02 Seiuchi wrote:On May 04 2012 11:20 Zato-1 wrote:On May 04 2012 10:57 Seiuchi wrote:
Edit: Also, I just think it's obnoxious that you've decided you HATE THE TYPE OF JUNGLER SEJUANI IS so much you're forcing a build on her when it's obvious she's just not very good at it, especially with the Atma's nerf. She's Amumu with tits, not Nocturne. Actually, I have no idea if she's good with this build or not. For the past two months, my internet connection has been working like ass and my latency makes LoL unplayable for me, so I haven't been able to properly test this. Therefore, one of the things I can still do is come up with builds and stuff and share them. Of course, most of the responses I get heap shit on me and my build without ever having tried it. And I'm the one being obnoxious? Goddamn. I've tried Mallet on Sejuani, it's just really bad. I've played like 100 games of her with various builds, but when it comes down to it she's most effective with support jungler builds because she's a support jungler and she has numbers that incentivize support jungler items. When you don't have a defensive steroid and your damage revolves around sitting on people with W on, your damage is linked to staying alive as much as possible with cost efficient items and having the CDR to always have W up, both of which your build fails at. In terms of damage CDR is highly, highly overrated on every champion in the game not named Ryze. On Sej you'll get more damage from stacking atmogs than you ever would from a defensive CDR build. Even champs like Skarner who have multiple cdr effects do less damage with CDR based builds than simple onhit tanky builds. You find that your build is effective but that's because a support jungler is more reliant on team utility than damage output and there are only three ways to improve your utility in this game: stay alive, aura/active items, and CDR. You're just going from a broken premise (all support junglers are shit, it's a shit build) when Maokai and Nautilus have been proven to be supremely effective with mostly the same build Sejuani goes (and Sejuani will too when she inevitably gets early jungle buffs because her problem isn't damage but how she's counterjungled). I mean, you could go Atmogs Amumu too, but it's not efficient. The difference is amumu doesn't scale with HP. The rational for atmogs sejuani is "my W scales with HP and I'm getting tons of HP, I might as well grab an atma's since with 3k HP it's an efficient item". Personally, I think it *could* work if Sejuani ever becomes viable top lane, but from the jungle? That seems pretty suspect. As far as the CDR argument goes, 4 more seconds of uptime of Northern Winds to have it only down 1 second between casts at 160-180 damage in an AoE should do more damage than AD from some Atmallet build off the top of my head, but I'd have to run the numbers. That's in addition to the extra utility you're getting from less CD between ult and more Es.
I've run the numbers before and atmogs does more damage than CDR stacking. Not because of more W damage overall but because auto attacks just scale really well. If you aren't auto attacking on Sej you're not going to be in W range anyway. Even then some surprising facts emerge, like a fully stacked warmogs doing more damage than a frozen heart, or sunfire cape being one the better items on her now for EHP + DPS (though it lacks in utility).
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On May 05 2012 00:00 phyvo wrote:Slows don't stack that way. It's not 40% + 10%, it's 40% + (10% * .65) which is 43.5%. There are plenty of jungle champs that scale better than Sejuani does late game. The major limitation for champion scaling is their kit and their lane, not how many GP10 items you stack. You could build GP10 and full AD on your support Soraka "for the late game" but that doesn't mean that you'll ever hit your 6 item build before the game ends and no matter what you do a vayne will do more damage than you with the same items. Similarly, the jungler is pretty far behind solo lanes in farm unless he gets lots of successful ganks. In most of my jungle games I'm lucky if I finish my 3rd big item (such as after wriggles-hog-wit's) before the game is mostly decided, finishing a 6 item build is just a pipe dream most of the time. Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 14:40 Seiuchi wrote:On May 04 2012 13:32 phyvo wrote:On May 04 2012 12:02 Seiuchi wrote:On May 04 2012 11:20 Zato-1 wrote:On May 04 2012 10:57 Seiuchi wrote:
Edit: Also, I just think it's obnoxious that you've decided you HATE THE TYPE OF JUNGLER SEJUANI IS so much you're forcing a build on her when it's obvious she's just not very good at it, especially with the Atma's nerf. She's Amumu with tits, not Nocturne. Actually, I have no idea if she's good with this build or not. For the past two months, my internet connection has been working like ass and my latency makes LoL unplayable for me, so I haven't been able to properly test this. Therefore, one of the things I can still do is come up with builds and stuff and share them. Of course, most of the responses I get heap shit on me and my build without ever having tried it. And I'm the one being obnoxious? Goddamn. I've tried Mallet on Sejuani, it's just really bad. I've played like 100 games of her with various builds, but when it comes down to it she's most effective with support jungler builds because she's a support jungler and she has numbers that incentivize support jungler items. When you don't have a defensive steroid and your damage revolves around sitting on people with W on, your damage is linked to staying alive as much as possible with cost efficient items and having the CDR to always have W up, both of which your build fails at. In terms of damage CDR is highly, highly overrated on every champion in the game not named Ryze. On Sej you'll get more damage from stacking atmogs than you ever would from a defensive CDR build. Even champs like Skarner who have multiple cdr effects do less damage with CDR based builds than simple onhit tanky builds. You find that your build is effective but that's because a support jungler is more reliant on team utility than damage output and there are only three ways to improve your utility in this game: stay alive, aura/active items, and CDR. You're just going from a broken premise (all support junglers are shit, it's a shit build) when Maokai and Nautilus have been proven to be supremely effective with mostly the same build Sejuani goes (and Sejuani will too when she inevitably gets early jungle buffs because her problem isn't damage but how she's counterjungled). I mean, you could go Atmogs Amumu too, but it's not efficient. The difference is amumu doesn't scale with HP. The rational for atmogs sejuani is "my W scales with HP and I'm getting tons of HP, I might as well grab an atma's since with 3k HP it's an efficient item". Personally, I think it *could* work if Sejuani ever becomes viable top lane, but from the jungle? That seems pretty suspect. As far as the CDR argument goes, 4 more seconds of uptime of Northern Winds to have it only down 1 second between casts at 160-180 damage in an AoE should do more damage than AD from some Atmallet build off the top of my head, but I'd have to run the numbers. That's in addition to the extra utility you're getting from less CD between ult and more Es. I've run the numbers before and atmogs does more damage than CDR stacking. Not because of more W damage overall but because auto attacks just scale really well. If you aren't auto attacking on Sej you're not going to be in W range anyway. Even then some surprising facts emerge, like a fully stacked warmogs doing more damage than a frozen heart, or sunfire cape being one the better items on her now for EHP + DPS (though it lacks in utility).
I'm not surprised at all by the Sunfire's thing, she's one of the few champions in the game where you get scaling in advantage to the stats even if you're paying so much for the passive. Also makes sense that Warmog's does more damage than Heart, but I feel like that's a decent tradeoff since you're getting some team benefits in addition to the stats. Do you know exactly how Sunfire's vs Warmog's adds up damage wise? I've always felt bad getting Warmog's because just from the few times I tried it felt like Sunfire's was doing better if I wanted to buy a Giant's Belt.
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Well in terms of damage the only thing you get from mogs is W, so take 1270 (health) * 3% (for passive) * 5 (duration) and you get 190 damage every 10 seconds, or 19 DPS with no CDR. When comparing it to sunfire mogs makes a pretty even sacrifice of damage for more survivability (pretty easy to see, it gives more than twice the HP). But that's after you fully stack it. Until then SFC is pretty far ahead in terms of the benefit it brings to you and if you feel your EHP is fine there's not really a reason to sacrifice your DPS for it.
Before the atma's nerf/SFC buff for pure tanky DPSness I would have advocated mogs + atma's without question, assuming you could could afford to delay your damage that much. But now that assumption seems to be assuming just too much given atma's reduced pay off, if it wasn't already.
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Since spinesheath mentioned it in the Amumu thread - has anyone tried Haunting Guise on jungle Sejuani? Like Amumu, she benefits from MPen*, and it provides HP for her W.
*that doesn't take away from tenacity (ie Mercs over Sorcs), or compromise her shaky early jungle (runes/masteries).
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sejuani is one of the only champs where i can clear my jungle (3rd clear+ or so) so fast that i have extra time before it spawns again to gank. i played another game last night and looked at the timer when i got my items. 20 minutes 2xgp5, mercs, giants belt. 24 minutes - 3/2/0, fromal (2.8khp). 30 minutes - warmog (3.5k-3.9khp). at the end of the game i was 3-3-15. i had the highest gold total at the stats screen by 1k gold because of the gp5 items i bought early. if you are proactive about spending your time making gold, getting extremely farmed is easy.
i cant remember which streamer i heard say this but gp5 items pay you for waiting for ganks. even just 10sec waiting makes you extra gold, when you would make nothing without them.
and by my 6 item build goals, well, i should have explained it further. the champs i like are all extremely effective with just parts of their build. just one core item immediately makes them a terror. hec or skarner with sheen rush after gp5 is beastly. the above fromal build accomplishes the same effect. these champs dont get weaker as they add items to their initial core, they just get stronger.
the gp5 gives you that extra boost of sustain which a lot of these champs need to function, and they are all aoe so wriggles isnt a necessity. if you manage to get a few more kills or assists after sheen for example, then the gp5 is just adding even more gold to the advantage you have gained. and if you dont get kills then the gp5 is keeping you up in farm anyway. it serves so many purposes.
this style of jungling i have found effective on skarner, shyv, hec, and sejuani because they all are very similiar in abilities and scaling potential, importantly, they also benefit more from sustain gp5 then wriggles (i do get wriggles on shyv tho, but shyv is just really strong all around from beginning to end). sejuani scales the least of these champs i listed, but she still scales. at the final teamfight with fromal and atmogs in the game i mentioned above i was doing absurd damage to their squishies.
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On May 05 2012 02:50 Vaporized wrote:
sejuani is one of the only champs where i can clear my jungle (3rd clear+ or so) so fast that i have extra time before it spawns again to gank. i played another game last night and looked at the timer when i got my items. 20 minutes 2xgp5, mercs, giants belt. 24 minutes - 3/2/0, fromal (2.8khp). 30 minutes - warmog (3.5k-3.9khp). at the end of the game i was 3-3-15. i had the highest gold total at the stats screen by 1k gold because of the gp5 items i bought early. if you are proactive about spending your time making gold, getting extremely farmed is easy.
Ok. Philo + HoG (which I assume are the gp5s in question) is 1655. Mercs is 1200. Giant's Belt is 1100. That's a total of just under 4k gold that you're getting in 20 minutes.
Let's assume you clear every jungle camp immediately when it spawns. That's a pretty ludicrous assumption, right?
Small camps spawn at 1:40 and every minute thereafter, so you kill each one 18 times. Buffs are every 5 minutes starting at 1:55, so you get them 4 times. The small camp gold adds up to 164 between the three and the buff camps are 92 each, for 164 * 18 + 92 * 2 * 2 = 3688 gold in 20 minutes of absolutely perfect jungling.
Of course, this isn't factoring in baseline gold and the accelerative effects of gp5s, and ganks will also give you a boost. But you're simply not going to get 4k gold in 20 minutes on a consistent basis unless you're playing against people vastly worse than you.
i cant remember which streamer i heard say this but gp5 items pay you for waiting for ganks. even just 10sec waiting makes you extra gold, when you would make nothing without them.
No, gp5 items just mitigate the cost of waiting for ganks. You don't get "extra gold" waiting. You get more gold than someone with wriggles would while waiting for ganks. So it's less costly for Sej to camp lanes, but it's at the expense of clear times that, say, Udyr achieves with wriggles.
and by my 6 item build goals, well, i should have explained it further. the champs i like are all extremely effective with just parts of their build. just one core item immediately makes them a terror. hec or skarner with sheen rush after gp5 is beastly. the above fromal build accomplishes the same effect. these champs dont get weaker as they add items to their initial core, they just get stronger.
There are several problems here.
1) Sejuani doesn't hit godmode with 2 gp5s. She doesn't hit godmode with 2 gp5s, mercs, and giant's belt. She's strong with those items, but she is hardly "a terror". Especially since by the time you get them, the enemy AD should have at least IE and Zeal and therefore can melt you.
2) It's not a question of "is sej with frozen mallet good". It's "is frozen mallet the best choice for me to spend 3k gold on". The answer, as several people have explained, is pretty much no. As many have pointed out, for the money you put into mallet you could get Aegis and Giant's Belt, which gives you the same hp, a solid core of resistances, and a useful aura. You could also get Sunfire for more damage and some actual armor, or two Giant's Belts and an oracles, or two Giant's Belts and a Null Magic Mantle, and so on. The effectiveness of Mallet is entirely dependent on how much you get out of the slow proc, and that 100% chance better be worth 800 gold to you.
3) Everyone gets stronger as they add items. Does Sej get stronger relative to other champions though? There's not much that beats out the ridiculous multiplicative scaling of AD carries or the 1v1 dunk potential of pure melee DPS.
the gp5 gives you that extra boost of sustain which a lot of these champs need to function, and they are all aoe so wriggles isnt a necessity. if you manage to get a few more kills or assists after sheen for example, then the gp5 is just adding even more gold to the advantage you have gained. and if you dont get kills then the gp5 is keeping you up in farm anyway. it serves so many purposes.
Ok, it's true that sejuani doesn't need wriggles. But the question, again, is "Can I buy something for 1600 gold that lets me farm faster - and sufficiently faster that it outdoes the gold gained from the gp5?" In this case, I agree with you. I don't think anything outdoes gp5 in terms of gold earned, especially for someone who wants to gank as much as sejuani. I just bring this up because many people have this issue where they see "PASSIVE: 5 gold / 10 seconds" and think "IF I BUY THIS I BE MORE RICHER".
this style of jungling i have found effective on skarner, shyv, hec, and sejuani because they all are very similiar in abilities and scaling potential, importantly, they also benefit more from sustain gp5 then wriggles (i do get wriggles on shyv tho, but shyv is just really strong all around from beginning to end). sejuani scales the least of these champs i listed, but she still scales. at the final teamfight with fromal and atmogs in the game i mentioned above i was doing absurd damage to their squishies.
Skarner and Hecarim could both go either way on the Wriggles/gp5 discussion.
If the final teamfight has you with Frozen Mallet, Warmogs AND Atma's on jungle farm...
Also, very few people with those items DON'T do absurd damage to squishies. Squishies just tend to do absurd damage back. Frozen Mallet is a cost-ineffective way to boost the damage you do, and a cost-ineffective way to reduce the damage you take. Randuins will do significantly more, both in terms of team utility and survivability.
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your own math for the first part proves that it is possible to get 4k gold in 20 min. not factoring in gp5 gold, gold gained by time passed, and gank gold easily push u over 4k if you try. you dont even need to 'perfectly clear your jungle' as you say. 2-3 kills or assists is ~500g gold, gold from time and gp5 is, well i have no idea and im not going to guess. plus u dont factor in cs u get while ganking/covering lanes, which i am always on the lookout for.
the second part is semantics about gp5 and ganking.
there is no way the ad carry is going to have an IE and zeal by 20 min. an under 20 min IE means that the carry is farmed and the game is probably over already.
you also mention that udyr will clear faster with wriggles. sejuani clears almost instantly. there is no one that clears faster then her on the 3rd route +. u q-w-e and the camp is gone. sejuani already clears so fast YOU DO NOT NEED WRIGGLES TO CLEAR INSTANTLY SMALL CAMPS. having philo for mana regen, and philo and hog for gp5 means you are gaining more gold then someone who went wriggles and i guareentee u can clear as fast as they do with maxing e. this speed is what gives u extra time to gank and still farm.
wriggles is good on jungles that need to clear camps faster. speed is something hec, skarner, and sejuani all excel at without the need for wriggles. hence gp5 is a better option. this point is somewhat debatable but what is not debatable is that without wriggles these champs will be able to clear as fast as someone who has it. these are aoe champs meant to clear the jungle fast. and in hec and skarner case they have built in sustain. sejuani doesnt, which is where the philo becomes useful yet again.
i didnt save a screen of fromal, atmogs sejuani but OFTEN i finish all 3 items in a game. i really wish you could post replays and i could too so i can see what you spend your time doing if its not farming.
as for the proc on fromal being worth 800 gold. maybe u didnt read it in the post above but sejuani without fromal is a good cc champ. sejuani with fromal is the best cc champ in the game imo.
aegis is an item to fulfil a different role then how i play. i think i have the 2nd highest k/d/a ratio on sejuani out of all the champs i play, 2nd only to taric who never dies.
and in regards to fromal being cost ineffective. with 2xgp5 i can afford for something to not be the most effective item for its cost as long as it provides other benefits. when u start getting kills and assists for your team that fromal will pay for itself. and i dont even buy into the idea that fromal is not cost effective on sejuani anyway. if there is any champ that fromal IS cost effective on it is sejuani because her kit synergizes perfectly with the proc effect, and she makes use of the hp for tankyness AND damage.
edit: more generally about jungling - it comes down to time management imo. i RARELY wait more then 10 sec in brush for a gank to develop. as a jungler you have an innate disadvantage in the amount of farm available. but u have a much wider variety of ways to make gold then your average laner. the thought going through my head constantly while i jungle is, 'is what im currently doing the most effecient way for me to make gold at this point in time.' having a solid grasp of what is going on in each lane is extremely important, also. junglers that i dont get gp5 on, i tend to feel like im behind. with gp5 and a good farming jungler i am confident in being top 3 farm in the game with a bit of luck and competent teammates. and the luck usually comes in the form of who gets the killing blows, and how much cs u can scavenge from lanes.
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+ Show Spoiler +
i just played a game with skarner. 13 min 2xgp5, mercs. 16 min sheen. farming is ez. i had double the cs of the other teams jungle in the first ss.
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On May 05 2012 14:26 Vaporized wrote:+ Show Spoiler +i just played a game with skarner. 13 min 2xgp5, mercs. 16 min sheen. farming is ez. i had double the cs of the other teams jungle in the first ss.
You're facing a Xin Zhao jungle with Skarner, of course you're going to crush him in CS.
Also your arguments make entirely more sense when I see you're unranked. Go check out TopherB's profile (2100 player that's been playing Sejuani a ton in ranked recently, I see him in featured games a lot. He has 60% winrate there) and see his builds. Hint: THEY ALL HAVE AEGIS
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I've been going Philo, defensive boots, HoG, shurellias, Aegis, GA.
Basically I become unkillable but I still do pretty much no damage and I only have CDR from Shurellias and my runes/masteries
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I don't see why you would get GA? It's not like the enemy team wants you dead, unless you're the only target available.
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Not that it matters, but I prefer PStone -> HoG -> Kindle -> Glacial -> w/e.
I've rued how long it takes for her to "kick in" and thus kinda prefer Amumu.
When I played her I had a habit of leveling Q really fast. WQWEQRQQQ of sorts. Dunno. I'm retarded.
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The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol.
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Confused if you haven't updated since the mastery changes or if you honestly still open jungle with cloth +5?
It seems there are far better item openers with the changes to jungle and masteries that have taken place.
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On May 07 2012 05:34 Southlight wrote:
Not that it matters, but I prefer PStone -> HoG -> Kindle -> Glacial -> w/e.
I've rued how long it takes for her to "kick in" and thus kinda prefer Amumu.
When I played her I had a habit of leveling Q really fast. WQWEQRQQQ of sorts. Dunno. I'm retarded.
I guess I could see the lower CD being slightly better for ganking, but you really sacrifice clear time not getting levels 3-5 of W, since level 3 is when it starts becoming as good or better as other jungle AoE clears.
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On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol.
She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily.
Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless.
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then add: this only works at low elo to everything i said. because it does work at low elo.
for starting item i still go cloth. this allows you to stay at high hp through your first clear, get red, and still have enough health to gank a lane at lvl 4. sejuani's first clear is brutal so i try to make it go as quick as possible.
with fromal/atmogs you can do significant damage late game. not as good as shyvana but shyv has no cc.
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On May 07 2012 07:16 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol. She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily. Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless.
I other words why arent you playing ashe or why isnt the jungle the hard carry
I guess the answer that cloth is requiered by this guide basically underlines this guide.
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On May 07 2012 18:32 Synwave wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 07:16 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol. She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily. Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless. I other words why arent you playing ashe or why isnt the jungle the hard carry I guess the answer that cloth is requiered by this guide basically underlines this guide.
Cloth really isn't required. Regrowth is her best start, and it's not that difficult if you get the standard leash.
Also I'm pretty sure someone on GD ran the numbers and Sejuani's sustained damage in a fight outscales all the other tank characters like Amumu/Nautilus/Singed because when you look at the HP scaling on W it gets pretty ridiculous.
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Sejuani doing more sustained damage than Amumu/Nautilus might be possible, but it depends very heavily on the assumptions you're making about the situation.
For example, compare Sejuani's W versus Amumu's. Against a low health carry Sejuani appears to have an advantage since her W is based on her personal health rather than her target's. However, the uptime on Sejuani's W is only 50% without CDR, meaning her sustained damage is only 33+1.5% max health (compared to Amumu's 24+2.7% with 100% uptime). The target needs to have roughly half Sejuani's health for her W's damage to be superior to Amumu's.
Sejuani's health scaling is a strong point, but it's not an overwhelming advantage.
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This champion is soooo underplayed. I carry so hard building her pure HP.
I focus on leveling E. Her clear post level ~4 is no problem with a q->w->e combo.The whole camp just dies by the end of the w. Ganks are realllllly strong by forcing summoners as early as level 3, then coming back to finish the job.
Late game her ult can singlehandedly win a teamfight. She has become my favorite champion.
Edit: I also find her hp damage scaling to be wicked lategame.
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In related news, Sej is boss on Dominion, where mobility is king and early game weakness is less pressing.
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On May 08 2012 02:12 Holytornados wrote:
This champion is soooo underplayed. I carry so hard building her pure HP.
I focus on leveling E. Her clear post level ~4 is no problem with a q->w->e combo.The whole camp just dies by the end of the w. Ganks are realllllly strong by forcing summoners as early as level 3, then coming back to finish the job.
Late game her ult can singlehandedly win a teamfight. She has become my favorite champion.
Edit: I also find her hp damage scaling to be wicked lategame.
what item build do u use? hopefully it includes atmas
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On May 07 2012 18:32 Synwave wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 07:16 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol. She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily. Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless. I other words why arent you playing ashe or why isnt the jungle the hard carry I guess the answer that cloth is requiered by this guide basically underlines this guide.
What on earth are you talking about? A lot of non-hard-carry jungles are capable of snowballing. Seju has horrendous scaling on her skills, which is probably what keeps her "balanced" given the multitude of tools she has available. It's like jungling with Leona if she could. It'd still be inferior to jungle Naut.
I like Seju's skillset but it's very hard to justify choosing her over Amumu because the cooldown on Q is so high for no apparent reason. It'd be the easiest way to buff her into viability.
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On May 08 2012 11:59 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 18:32 Synwave wrote:On May 07 2012 07:16 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol. She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily. Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless. I other words why arent you playing ashe or why isnt the jungle the hard carry I guess the answer that cloth is requiered by this guide basically underlines this guide. What on earth are you talking about? A lot of non-hard-carry jungles are capable of snowballing. Seju has horrendous scaling on her skills, which is probably what keeps her "balanced" given the multitude of tools she has available. It's like jungling with Leona if she could. It'd still be inferior to jungle Naut. I like Seju's skillset but it's very hard to justify choosing her over Amumu because the cooldown on Q is so high for no apparent reason. It'd be the easiest way to buff her into viability.
Actually the easiest way to buff her into viability is 5-10 damage on level 1 W and maybe level 2 and a point of health regen so she clears faster initially and isn't horribly bullied by Lee Sin or Mundo.
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On May 08 2012 11:59 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 18:32 Synwave wrote:On May 07 2012 07:16 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol. She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily. Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless. I other words why arent you playing ashe or why isnt the jungle the hard carry I guess the answer that cloth is requiered by this guide basically underlines this guide. What on earth are you talking about? A lot of non-hard-carry jungles are capable of snowballing. Seju has horrendous scaling on her skills, which is probably what keeps her "balanced" given the multitude of tools she has available. It's like jungling with Leona if she could. It'd still be inferior to jungle Naut. I like Seju's skillset but it's very hard to justify choosing her over Amumu because the cooldown on Q is so high for no apparent reason. It'd be the easiest way to buff her into viability.
Sorry for the miscommunication. My point was she isn't a good jungler.
If you want a disable/tank/carry there are better alternatives.
I guess you could say were agreeing in an odd sort of way?
Seju doesn't snowball. She is a disable/chase tank that can jungle...slowly.
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On May 09 2012 17:20 Synwave wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:59 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 18:32 Synwave wrote:On May 07 2012 07:16 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol. She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily. Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless. I other words why arent you playing ashe or why isnt the jungle the hard carry I guess the answer that cloth is requiered by this guide basically underlines this guide. What on earth are you talking about? A lot of non-hard-carry jungles are capable of snowballing. Seju has horrendous scaling on her skills, which is probably what keeps her "balanced" given the multitude of tools she has available. It's like jungling with Leona if she could. It'd still be inferior to jungle Naut. I like Seju's skillset but it's very hard to justify choosing her over Amumu because the cooldown on Q is so high for no apparent reason. It'd be the easiest way to buff her into viability. Sorry for the miscommunication. My point was she isn't a good jungler. If you want a disable/tank/carry there are better alternatives. I guess you could say were agreeing in an odd sort of way? Seju doesn't snowball. She is a disable/chase tank that can jungle...slowly.
She only jungles slowly early when she is vulnerable to counter jungling..thats pretty much it. She has decent ganks pre 6 and great ganks post 6.
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been playing sejuani in 1700-1800 elo and her game plan is hit 6 win game.
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I play Naut.or Sej when I jungle and 7/10 times people comment when I pick Sej.
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Anyone tried Midjuanie yet?
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On November 09 2012 09:43 nosliw wrote:
Anyone tried Midjuanie yet?
I played her mid 3 times in normal draft against 3 different opponents ranging from 1.2k to 1.5k Elo. My first game against an Akali mid I absolutely crushed her in lane; but I had a lot of difficulties against Lux and Ryze in the other two games even though my lane opponents were actually far less skilled than me. I was able to outplay the 1200 Elo Ryze by shove-then-roam, but I don't think any competent Ryze would let me do that.
I feel that she can have good lane presence and good trading potential if she can Q in and STICK to her lane opponent for most of the duration of her W (her best damage tool). With all 5 seconds of her DoT from her W and frost, she can do 330 + 0.7 * ap + 15% max health of damage (15% max health at level 9 translates to roughly 160 damage). If you can't stick to your target you are better off maxing E first, but her E also deals less damage. I have only seen Scarra maxing E first.
Against anything that is ranged and can kite you it's a terrible lane for Sejuani. I had a terrible time laning against Lux (because of her Q and partially her W as well), and I have seen Scarra having a hard time against Orianna. But once she can get to level 7~9 she can roam pretty well because her R and her slows are absolutely terrorizing in ganks. Her waveclear is pretty broken if she has control of the lane.
Her damage is deceptively high. Not Rumble that kind of high, but it's pretty good when you R -> Q -> E -> W and grind your opponents' healthbars away (her R also applies Frost, so you can R -> E if Q is not feasible for any reason). Her CCs are obviously very good as well.
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On May 08 2012 12:26 Seiuchi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 11:59 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 18:32 Synwave wrote:On May 07 2012 07:16 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol. She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily. Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless. I other words why arent you playing ashe or why isnt the jungle the hard carry I guess the answer that cloth is requiered by this guide basically underlines this guide. What on earth are you talking about? A lot of non-hard-carry jungles are capable of snowballing. Seju has horrendous scaling on her skills, which is probably what keeps her "balanced" given the multitude of tools she has available. It's like jungling with Leona if she could. It'd still be inferior to jungle Naut. I like Seju's skillset but it's very hard to justify choosing her over Amumu because the cooldown on Q is so high for no apparent reason. It'd be the easiest way to buff her into viability. Actually the easiest way to buff her into viability is 5-10 damage on level 1 W and maybe level 2 and a point of health regen so she clears faster initially and isn't horribly bullied by Lee Sin or Mundo.
How about +3 armour and +1 sec on W, very excited to get home tonight and try her out in the new jungle with these buffs.
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On December 05 2012 14:12 Skithiryx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 12:26 Seiuchi wrote:On May 08 2012 11:59 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 18:32 Synwave wrote:On May 07 2012 07:16 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol. She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily. Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless. I other words why arent you playing ashe or why isnt the jungle the hard carry I guess the answer that cloth is requiered by this guide basically underlines this guide. What on earth are you talking about? A lot of non-hard-carry jungles are capable of snowballing. Seju has horrendous scaling on her skills, which is probably what keeps her "balanced" given the multitude of tools she has available. It's like jungling with Leona if she could. It'd still be inferior to jungle Naut. I like Seju's skillset but it's very hard to justify choosing her over Amumu because the cooldown on Q is so high for no apparent reason. It'd be the easiest way to buff her into viability. Actually the easiest way to buff her into viability is 5-10 damage on level 1 W and maybe level 2 and a point of health regen so she clears faster initially and isn't horribly bullied by Lee Sin or Mundo. How about +3 armour and +1 sec on W, very excited to get home tonight and try her out in the new jungle with these buffs.
I am very tempted to try building Liandry's Torment on mid Sejuani... waiting for her to be free again.
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On December 05 2012 14:15 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 14:12 Skithiryx wrote:On May 08 2012 12:26 Seiuchi wrote:On May 08 2012 11:59 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 18:32 Synwave wrote:On May 07 2012 07:16 Southlight wrote:On May 07 2012 06:22 Juicyfruit wrote:
The best thing about Sejuani compared to Mummy is that if your teammates don't follow your initation at least you don't die immediately, lol. She does significantly less damage, invests more to clear faster (a level in an otherwise useless skill), and isn't as game-changing. You can die by accident once with Amumu and it hardly matters because you hit like a truck later. Also Amumu 1v1s a lot of heroes very easily. Sejuani's mobility is obviously higher, but it still takes forever. Also I had a tendency to get really fed with Seju but a fed Seju is pretty useless. I other words why arent you playing ashe or why isnt the jungle the hard carry I guess the answer that cloth is requiered by this guide basically underlines this guide. What on earth are you talking about? A lot of non-hard-carry jungles are capable of snowballing. Seju has horrendous scaling on her skills, which is probably what keeps her "balanced" given the multitude of tools she has available. It's like jungling with Leona if she could. It'd still be inferior to jungle Naut. I like Seju's skillset but it's very hard to justify choosing her over Amumu because the cooldown on Q is so high for no apparent reason. It'd be the easiest way to buff her into viability. Actually the easiest way to buff her into viability is 5-10 damage on level 1 W and maybe level 2 and a point of health regen so she clears faster initially and isn't horribly bullied by Lee Sin or Mundo. How about +3 armour and +1 sec on W, very excited to get home tonight and try her out in the new jungle with these buffs. I am very tempted to try building Liandry's Torment on mid Sejuani... waiting for her to be free again.
Yep, even as a jungle item it's not completely terrible, Sejuani is going to rock some serious face.
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Been doing some sej jungle testing. A few results: Cloth or Hunter's Machete + 5 pots with aspd reds and rest armor 0/21/9, cleared wolves-blue-wraiths-wolves-red-wraiths in ~4:15 but got extremely low. Help on wolves/blue would shave off ~15 seconds at least and save ~2-300 hp (wolves alone took 25 seconds).
Pig damage feels much scarier now. Maybe that's because of the +1 sec on W, or maybe just because it's easier to itemize lots of health. New Warmogs is lovely, as is the Spirit of Tank, which mostly takes care of your jungle mana. Randuins is also very appealing. I think sitting on a Neg Cloak is best for MR right now. Aegis is still fantastic. Shurelya's is still good but it's harder to build up to it now and the stats aren't as lovely, esp. compared to Spirit of Tank. Captain seems like the go-to boots enchant, probably on top of Tabi or Mercs.
Next jungle to try: 0/?/? with Wealth mastery, Machete+Bottle start.
Can't wait to party all over dominion with pig either.
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On December 06 2012 01:28 Tooplark wrote:
Been doing some sej jungle testing. A few results: Cloth or Hunter's Machete + 5 pots with aspd reds and rest armor 0/21/9, cleared wolves-blue-wraiths-wolves-red-wraiths in ~4:15 but got extremely low. Help on wolves/blue would shave off ~15 seconds at least and save ~2-300 hp (wolves alone took 25 seconds).
Pig damage feels much scarier now. Maybe that's because of the +1 sec on W, or maybe just because it's easier to itemize lots of health. New Warmogs is lovely, as is the Spirit of Tank, which mostly takes care of your jungle mana. Randuins is also very appealing. I think sitting on a Neg Cloak is best for MR right now. Aegis is still fantastic. Shurelya's is still good but it's harder to build up to it now and the stats aren't as lovely, esp. compared to Spirit of Tank. Captain seems like the go-to boots enchant, probably on top of Tabi or Mercs.
Next jungle to try: 0/?/? with Wealth mastery, Machete+Bottle start.
Can't wait to party all over dominion with pig either.
Any further thoughts on S3 pig? Tried working towards Runic Bulwark over Neg Cloak, or is it too inventory-intensive if yr going for Spirit of Ye Olde Golem/Mogs/Omen? Util start w/machete+bottle feasible, or will you get slaughtered by jungle mobs without an understanding team to bumrush yr L1 clear?
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Best basic build I've found so far is Spirit of the Ancient Golem/Ninja Tabi/Runic Bulwark. I think Runic Bulwark is pretty much mandatory on anyone of her class, but it's especially good for Sejuani with how much HP it gives. After that you can fill out with items like Frozen Heart/Sunfire/Abyssal depending on what you need.
I haven't tried Utility start with Machete/Bottle, but from doing 5 pots Machete with 21 defense I imagine you'd have to back before hitting 4. Not sure if you'd survive the lizard.
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On December 12 2012 08:32 Seiuchi wrote:
Best basic build I've found so far is Spirit of the Ancient Golem/Ninja Tabi/Runic Bulwark. I think Runic Bulwark is pretty much mandatory on anyone of her class, but it's especially good for Sejuani with how much HP it gives. After that you can fill out with items like Frozen Heart/Sunfire/Abyssal depending on what you need.
I haven't tried Utility start with Machete/Bottle, but from doing 5 pots Machete with 21 defense I imagine you'd have to back before hitting 4. Not sure if you'd survive the lizard.
This worked much better than I expected :O
Pig rider woman new favourite champ.
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Idk, I just have a hard time thinking what sejuani does better in comparison to amumu. I feel like amumu clears faster (a little...), does more damage, ganks better, scales better with damage (what little you build), deals with counter jungling better, has more team fight utility/damage/CC/awesomeness
sejuani is my first champ so I still love her though :D
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What i have been going is Open machete + pots, go Tabi, Spirit of golem, Liandrys, (insert health item here), Athenes. The damage on your E gets to pretty high levels, and if you team up with an AoE midlaner like Orianna, karthus or even Galio, you should win every teamfight.
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I don't like Liandry's very much on Sejuani. While she does a reasonable amount of magic damage, it's not enough to justify buying something other than Aegis. Tabi SotAG Aegis seems unarguable on her right now. From there, upgrading to bulwark or getting froz heart/warmog/randuin's depending on what you need.
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On December 12 2012 22:08 Complete wrote:
Idk, I just have a hard time thinking what sejuani does better in comparison to amumu. I feel like amumu clears faster (a little...), does more damage, ganks better, scales better with damage (what little you build), deals with counter jungling better, has more team fight utility/damage/CC/awesomeness
sejuani is my first champ so I still love her though :D
Well Sejuani's R does not require her to commit, her gapcloser is more versatile (goes over walls without requiring a target), and she provide fairly consistent slow during teamfights....
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Yeah I think just like Sejuani's Q and R a lot more than Amumu. The stun and greater range on bandage toss prolly means its a better skill in reality but I like just going over random walls whenever I want and I also seem to steal barons and stuff a lot easier with Sej.
Plus if you can start finishing up your build Sejuani still seems to do pretty ridiculous amounts of damage in teamfights for how tanky she is.
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On December 12 2012 22:08 Complete wrote:
Idk, I just have a hard time thinking what sejuani does better in comparison to amumu. I feel like amumu clears faster (a little...), does more damage, ganks better, scales better with damage (what little you build), deals with counter jungling better, has more team fight utility/damage/CC/awesomeness
sejuani is my first champ so I still love her though :D
They have similar kits. W/E put on the deeps, Q initiate, R AOE CC. Sej's Dash doesn't require hitting a skillshot and her R allows initiation from a distance in addition to being a stronger CC type. I feel Sej's is a bit more forgiving. Sej has the bonus of Permafrost to give a heavy slow and force flashes harder. Her differing types of CC make her, in my opinion, a more effective ganker.
Amumu and Sej's Ws do similar damage. I'm going to assume the target is at least frosted.
Damages- Sej:Amu
Base- 66:24
Scaling(ap/hp)- 15%/3%:2.7%+1%AP
Keep in mind that you most likely won't have a lot of AP on Amumu and Amumu damages on targets health while Sejuani damages off of her already decent health while building health items.
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I think if you're good with amumu he's much stronger in most situations because his cc is harder and imo much more difficult to play around.
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On December 17 2012 09:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I think if you're good with amumu he's much stronger in most situations because his cc is harder and imo much more difficult to play around.
Mumu has two forms of CC, though. Sejuani's capable of applying wide areas of slow and stun with both AA and abilities.
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relative advantages of sej over mumu:
not dependent on a skillshot or flash to initiate
ult is longer range than bandage ult
ult is followed up with powerful slow
ganks aren't skillshot dependent
jungles better without blue (i think - not sure on this one)
can run away better
never banned
relative disadvantages:
mumu does more damage
hard cc on a low cooldown
ult is more likely to hit the things you want it to hit
ult is followed up by pretty-much-guaranteed stun on someone (unless you bandaged in)
better AP ratios (so can build less tank if situation so calls)
much better dargon/baron
ganks better in general, esp if your laner provides some cc
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so since sej seems to be picking up steam...
how do you play her?
what skills do you use when you clear the jungle? do you apply frost on everyone and then permafrost? do you start a camp with Q and then E and then W?
how about ganking/teamfights?
are you aiming to put perma on everyone? do you just run in there with Q, turn on W, and pray?
very curious on how to play as her since it seems like i'm not playing "optimum"
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Teamfights: Throw ult in, hit ADC/APC/other squishy, charge in and EW, squishy loses 1/3rd-1/2hp and is stunned for 2 seconds, hope your team follows up.
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How to clear jungle:
W first, spam W, autoattack the big thing until it dies. Q second, use Q to charge into camps or just to save time walking, hit W. E or W can come third. Always E if you want to gank at level 3. W at 3 is slightly faster for clearing red and moderately faster on your second jungle clear; E gives you slightly better ganks.
Clearing jungle stays pretty much the same - Q in, EW immediately, autoattack.
Sometimes you can speed a camp up by spreading autos (increasing W damage). Not usually a noticeable amount though.
Ganking: If possible, Q onto them, but all that really matters is that you can get them with E. Hopefully your laner can then follow up with some more CC or damage. Get all huggy with them, turn on E, and whack away.
Post 6, you also have the option of initiating with ult. You should start a gank with ult if a) your laner can follow up with lots of burst or more stuns or b) the gank target has no other escapes. Otherwise, you should try to save it to follow their blinks/flashes.
Ganking bot is slightly different, as you almost always want to start with ult so that you can permafrost both. If you can Q into both, then permafrost, then ult after they flash, that's ideal but rare.
Teamfights as 57 Corvette said. Some tips to make it easier: Hide Fiddle-style over a wall, throw ult in for surprise birthday, dash over wall and permafrost. Being unable to see your ult drastically decreases their chance of reacting to it. Get Q to the point where you have it up at the start and again at the end, so that you can chase or escape as appropriate. This varies depending on both team comps, so just go with your gut feeling.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On December 19 2012 12:32 Tooplark wrote:
How to clear jungle:
W first, spam W, autoattack the big thing until it dies. Q second, use Q to charge into camps or just to save time walking, hit W. E or W can come third. Always E if you want to gank at level 3. W at 3 is slightly faster for clearing red and moderately faster on your second jungle clear; E gives you slightly better ganks.
Clearing jungle stays pretty much the same - Q in, EW immediately, autoattack.
Sometimes you can speed a camp up by spreading autos (increasing W damage). Not usually a noticeable amount though.
Ganking: If possible, Q onto them, but all that really matters is that you can get them with E. Hopefully your laner can then follow up with some more CC or damage. Get all huggy with them, turn on E, and whack away.
Post 6, you also have the option of initiating with ult. You should start a gank with ult if a) your laner can follow up with lots of burst or more stuns or b) the gank target has no other escapes. Otherwise, you should try to save it to follow their blinks/flashes.
Ganking bot is slightly different, as you almost always want to start with ult so that you can permafrost both. If you can Q into both, then permafrost, then ult after they flash, that's ideal but rare.
Teamfights as 57 Corvette said. Some tips to make it easier: Hide Fiddle-style over a wall, throw ult in for surprise birthday, dash over wall and permafrost. Being unable to see your ult drastically decreases their chance of reacting to it. Get Q to the point where you have it up at the start and again at the end, so that you can chase or escape as appropriate. This varies depending on both team comps, so just go with your gut feeling.
For more efficient wave clearing, it is actually best to start with Q (to apply frost on all the minions), turn on W then wait 2~3 seconds, and hit E so that you can keep the frost on longer. Since frost lasts for 3 seconds, and W lasts for 6 seconds, you can ideally get the +50% dmg for the entire duration of W. Of course, it's better to do it around 2 seconds in case you miss-time it and hit E when the frost wears off.
And a tip for intiating, be careful not to use Q through the front line when you're trying to get to the back line. I've had so many games where I screwed up an intiation/fight because I tried to get to the back line with Q, but would get stuck by whoever was standing in front. It's easy to forget because you can Q through walls and minions, but not through enemy champs.
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On December 19 2012 12:57 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 12:32 Tooplark wrote:+ Show Spoiler +How to clear jungle:
W first, spam W, autoattack the big thing until it dies. Q second, use Q to charge into camps or just to save time walking, hit W. E or W can come third. Always E if you want to gank at level 3. W at 3 is slightly faster for clearing red and moderately faster on your second jungle clear; E gives you slightly better ganks.
Clearing jungle stays pretty much the same - Q in, EW immediately, autoattack.
Sometimes you can speed a camp up by spreading autos (increasing W damage). Not usually a noticeable amount though.
Ganking: If possible, Q onto them, but all that really matters is that you can get them with E. Hopefully your laner can then follow up with some more CC or damage. Get all huggy with them, turn on E, and whack away.
Post 6, you also have the option of initiating with ult. You should start a gank with ult if a) your laner can follow up with lots of burst or more stuns or b) the gank target has no other escapes. Otherwise, you should try to save it to follow their blinks/flashes.
Ganking bot is slightly different, as you almost always want to start with ult so that you can permafrost both. If you can Q into both, then permafrost, then ult after they flash, that's ideal but rare.
Teamfights as 57 Corvette said. Some tips to make it easier: Hide Fiddle-style over a wall, throw ult in for surprise birthday, dash over wall and permafrost. Being unable to see your ult drastically decreases their chance of reacting to it. Get Q to the point where you have it up at the start and again at the end, so that you can chase or escape as appropriate. This varies depending on both team comps, so just go with your gut feeling. For more efficient wave clearing, it is actually best to start with Q (to apply frost on all the minions), turn on W then wait 2~3 seconds, and hit E so that you can keep the frost on longer. Since frost lasts for 3 seconds, and W lasts for 6 seconds, you can ideally get the +50% dmg for the entire duration of W. Of course, it's better to do it around 2 seconds in case you miss-time it and hit E when the frost wears off.
While at early levels this is true, once you start putting levels into permafrost and get your spirit of bluebuff, your charge and E alone are nearly enough to 1-shot entire waves, so waiting is a little pointless.
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On December 19 2012 12:57 Live2Win wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 12:32 Tooplark wrote:
How to clear jungle:
W first, spam W, autoattack the big thing until it dies. Q second, use Q to charge into camps or just to save time walking, hit W. E or W can come third. Always E if you want to gank at level 3. W at 3 is slightly faster for clearing red and moderately faster on your second jungle clear; E gives you slightly better ganks.
Clearing jungle stays pretty much the same - Q in, EW immediately, autoattack.
Sometimes you can speed a camp up by spreading autos (increasing W damage). Not usually a noticeable amount though.
Ganking: If possible, Q onto them, but all that really matters is that you can get them with E. Hopefully your laner can then follow up with some more CC or damage. Get all huggy with them, turn on E, and whack away.
Post 6, you also have the option of initiating with ult. You should start a gank with ult if a) your laner can follow up with lots of burst or more stuns or b) the gank target has no other escapes. Otherwise, you should try to save it to follow their blinks/flashes.
Ganking bot is slightly different, as you almost always want to start with ult so that you can permafrost both. If you can Q into both, then permafrost, then ult after they flash, that's ideal but rare.
Teamfights as 57 Corvette said. Some tips to make it easier: Hide Fiddle-style over a wall, throw ult in for surprise birthday, dash over wall and permafrost. Being unable to see your ult drastically decreases their chance of reacting to it. Get Q to the point where you have it up at the start and again at the end, so that you can chase or escape as appropriate. This varies depending on both team comps, so just go with your gut feeling. For more efficient wave clearing, it is actually best to start with Q (to apply frost on all the minions), turn on W then wait 2~3 seconds, and hit E so that you can keep the frost on longer. Since frost lasts for 3 seconds, and W lasts for 6 seconds, you can ideally get the +50% dmg for the entire duration of W. Of course, it's better to do it around 2 seconds in case you miss-time it and hit E when the frost wears off.
I've always done WQW as my skill order. What you're saying makes sense but all the camps have big and small monsters anyways. As long as you apply frost to the big monster with your autos your W should still do full damage to it so your clear speed won't get any faster. And since little wraiths hit for so little it doesn't affect your hp that much.
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As my baby and favorite char, I hate seeing more people play her!!
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She is so fun to play but I find myself unable to carry while playing her. If the carries are underfarmed or just way behind their counter parts I just find myself at a loss of how to carry them over. I become this hard to kill constant slow bot with an aoe stun but too many fights its blah. Its not that bad though as so far im sitting at 50% win rate with her (down from the 60% I had last season >_>) but then again all my win % are down with the champs I mained last season and up with ones I sucked with last season.
What do you do in that situation when your carries are behind? I try to slow everyone and go balls deep a lot of times with my W on and usually I can severely hurt or kill one of their squishies almost by myself but too many times the rest of the team ends up dying and I come out alive and we lost the fight by trading 1-3 for 4. Should I concentrate on peeling more for my own carries? Last game I played with her we also had a mao as support so I guess I left it to him to peel since I initiated but the enemy Xin still managed to reach our AD even through all my CC and blow her up before theirs died.
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On December 30 2012 14:09 Slaughter wrote:
She is so fun to play but I find myself unable to carry while playing her. If the carries are underfarmed or just way behind their counter parts I just find myself at a loss of how to carry them over. I become this hard to kill constant slow bot with an aoe stun but too many fights its blah. Its not that bad though as so far im sitting at 50% win rate with her (down from the 60% I had last season >_>) but then again all my win % are down with the champs I mained last season and up with ones I sucked with last season.
What do you do in that situation when your carries are behind? I try to slow everyone and go balls deep a lot of times with my W on and usually I can severely hurt or kill one of their squishies almost by myself but too many times the rest of the team ends up dying and I come out alive and we lost the fight by trading 1-3 for 4. Should I concentrate on peeling more for my own carries? Last game I played with her we also had a mao as support so I guess I left it to him to peel since I initiated but the enemy Xin still managed to reach our AD even through all my CC and blow her up before theirs died.
Sej can peel AND initiate. Just RE half/all their team, then hug your carry. I've always found much more success peeling than diving, especially since sej has the mobility to then go help clean up or escape. In solo queue, peeling hard for your carry is basically how you win teamfights as a tank, cos your carry can't position and needs lots of help.
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Just started playing sejuani about a week ago, and am winning far more than I usually do. Granted, I'm a scrub, but she seems really strong -- not broken-strong, just solid, with the combination of sticking power, cc, aoe damage, and sticking power. I used to jungle Amumu, and while both his ulti and Q are maybe stronger than Sej's in optimum circumstances, the ability to stun their team from a screen away, or use a gap closer that can't be blocked by minions (and jump over walls) seems a lot more flexible.
She definitely seems like a champion that is stronger late than early -- she's not a glamorous bursty jungler, she's a CC bot and a tank who gets farm, gets beefy, and then just charges into their team and forces fights on your terms.
I'm not quite sure how to build her, though. I've been doing
machete + 5 pots -> spiritstone -> boots -> Spirit of Tank -> sometimes Sunfire -> Warmog's (with boots of mobility somewhere in there) -> other random things based on their comp, often Randuin's or Locket or sometimes Abyssal or Aegis.
I find that she likes CDR more than you might think at first, because it gives her more uptime on her W, and more importantly less downtime on her sticking power since her Q and E come up more often.
I also build a lot more armor than MR (getting Abyssal or Bulwark only if their AP damage is extreme), since I really don't care if AP casters blow their cooldowns on me; most of those have long enough ranges that they *could* blast my team with them, and every spell I eat is one my team doesn't. The stuff I have to get big enough to survive is AD carries bopping me repeatedly.
I find it easier to farm with her than with mummy, just because Sej projects her presence further than mummy because of the range on her ult. I don't have to worry about a fiddly skillshot Q that gets blocked by minions to move me around and put myself in position to stun people; I can (for instance) farm wraiths and still have the ability to get into midlane in a hurry if action starts happening, or be a little late to a countergank and still throw R in to blast people off my laner.
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On April 01 2013 12:52 Sufficiency wrote:
wtf. where is it here
I dunno, I noticed this after I posted -- I think the Sej thread hadn't been updated since the LoL Strategy forum was split off, and this thread was never moved; I couldn't find a Sejuani one in the new forum.
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I've changed my build from the last post, now I go machete+pots > Spirit stone > mobilities > warmogs, and then from there if they have lots of AD i'l finish my Spirit of ancient golem/sunfire. If they have magic damage, Banshees veil and possibly even an abyssal sceptre. Then I finish off my build with GA.
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God the new Sejuani rework is overpowered. The three first best in slot items, Tier 3 - Alacrity Ninja Tabi, Crest of the Ancient Golem, and Liandry' Torment make her DIE HARD.
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The old Sej was good, but just that
this new one is really solid and feells more sustaine-like
My normal build is
Machete, pots
boots, spirit golem
Warmogs and sunfire
This its the basic, give shit tons of HP and really do a decent damage, can kill carries or AP relative easily
the last two are positional, but i prefer more HP and armor
At the en 5000 HP and 330-350 armor
GAD!!!!
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One problem I have with her is that she is still really low after her first clear and it can be difficult ganking under those conditions
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On May 06 2013 23:18 Complete wrote:One problem I have with her is that she is still really low after her first clear and it can be difficult ganking under those conditions
Tbh how low you get on your first clear for almost every jungler is like at least 50% dependent on how much help you get on your first buff.
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the first few times i played reworked sejuani i took elder lizard instead of golem because i wanted more of the damages/
granted i think golem is better.
i want to play around with other stuff too. had a game where i got farmed as top lane and went golem/liandry's/sunfire/void. in retrospect abyssal was better.
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On May 07 2013 03:08 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 23:18 Complete wrote:One problem I have with her is that she is still really low after her first clear and it can be difficult ganking under those conditions Tbh how low you get on your first clear for almost every jungler is like at least 50% dependent on how much help you get on your first buff.
Yeah, i think her first clear with the change to her passive is much much better.
Mistakes I keep seeing are Sej's not using their W as an auto attack reset early, and i see a lot of guys using the Magic pen masteries/runes when that dead weight on first clear too. Little things, but in whole clear make big difference.
In terms of damage items, just grabbing golems and sorc shoes is pretty big.
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I've just been getting cdr boots or ninja tabi, is sorc shoes really that good on sej?
Also, what reds should you take over mpen? aspd seems like a waste past the first 2 clears.
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On May 07 2013 09:19 Complete wrote:
I've just been getting cdr boots or ninja tabi, is sorc shoes really that good on sej?
Also, what reds should you take over mpen? aspd seems like a waste past the first 2 clears.
Mixed pen would seem decent. Expensive as all hell though.
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never really had a problem with the first clear since everyone nowadays does smiteless for you if there's no invade. and your level 3 ganks are pretty good because it's so easy to stick permafrost on people even if you miss your charge.
i would rather have mpen for the damages since 1st clear isn't all that bad.
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On May 07 2013 09:19 Complete wrote:
I've just been getting cdr boots or ninja tabi, is sorc shoes really that good on sej?
Also, what reds should you take over mpen? aspd seems like a waste past the first 2 clears.
I'm still in love with Mobos. But then again, I build her standard jungle tank so I value zoom zooming everywhere to back up my lanes.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zHKiINN.jpg)
Sej can always dive with a good team, she freezes, slows, and knocks up disables all channels and chasers. Also she has great movement, she clears gaps and walls EZ PZ.
The bonus health dmg on the Flail of the Northern Winds is way too strong combined with Permafrost.
CC
Tank movement
High dmg
Sejuani is broken.
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My favorite jungler!
The bonus health dmg on the Flail of the Northern Winds is way too strong combined with Permafrost.
CC
Tank movement
High dmg
Sejuani is broken.
Dats the power of ice brohan! Look at Lissandra. What happens when there are bunch of people and she uses her ulti? GG IDRA, that's what happens.
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Man, new Sejuani is boss (other than when I make a field goal with the ult). Feels so strong.
I generally go spirit stone/tabi/sunfire/spirit of the ancient golem then abyssal's or bulwark. Feels so tanky, yet so much damage.
Also I'm cheeky and use spell vamp quints on her. My reasoning is as follows: I don't really feel like I need the movement speed, spell vamp is frakking awesome. Always clear, never not clear.
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On May 12 2013 03:31 zer0das wrote:
Man, new Sejuani is boss (other than when I make a field goal with the ult). Feels so strong.
I generally go spirit stone/tabi/sunfire/spirit of the ancient golem then abyssal's or bulwark. Feels so tanky, yet so much damage.
Also I'm cheeky and use spell vamp quints on her. My reasoning is as follows: I don't really feel like I need the movement speed, spell vamp is frakking awesome. Always clear, never not clear.
I rush Golem for even faster less mana intensive clearing + tenacity. I want to try Sunfire, but I never have enough for Giant's Belt until super late.
Mach5 > Boots > Dragonball > Mobo > Golem > Locket/Bulwark > Bulwark/Locket tends to be how I end up.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ByKzORp.jpg)
I'm having a hard time believe Riot won't nerf Sej.
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She's just a tanky version of Elise that scales with health, it's still good, it's still good!
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Hi thoughts on builds? I always see people rave over liandries but I feel like its just not worth the money coming out of the jungle. But I may be thinking along season 2 lines of tanky jungle cc bot. Also I max w, but I always want to max q sort of like vi. Wut do?
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On May 12 2013 14:50 1godless wrote:
Hi thoughts on builds? I always see people rave over liandries but I feel like its just not worth the money coming out of the jungle. But I may be thinking along season 2 lines of tanky jungle cc bot. Also I max w, but I always want to max q sort of like vi. Wut do?
People rave over Liandry's because it keeps her damage relevant all game. 3 of her abilities slow or impend movement, and then it grants Liandry's bonus % dmg.
Then you can build yourself as tanky as you need for any fight.
Tier 3 boots
Liandrys
Sunfire Cape
Warmog's Armor
Crest of the Ancient Golem
Rylai's Crystal Scepter
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Am I missing something? I just came back to the game after a long hiatus, and bought sejuani. To me she seems RIDICULOUSLY good, why do I hardly ever see her picked?
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It is a general, indisputable fact that it takes at least a month for even bonkers OP champs to be discovered. If they're just good, they languish forever.
So yeah, my guess is she'll be FotM in a couple weeks, then get nerfed into oblivion.
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On May 14 2013 01:28 Rice wrote:
Am I missing something? I just came back to the game after a long hiatus, and bought sejuani. To me she seems RIDICULOUSLY good, why do I hardly ever see her picked?
Stigma that she still sucks, pro teams (in NA and EU)haven't had the opportunity to play her outside of career altering tournies.
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Stigma still is that she sucks.*
Because she never sucked.
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On May 14 2013 03:46 Alaric wrote:
Stigma still is that she sucks.*
Because she never sucked.
No, she was basically Amumu that had Nautilus come out 2 champions later.
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"Hey guys, X champion is almost the same but a bit better, surely that wins this one is utter shit and we should never ever consider him at all."
Before the latest Naut buffs Sejuani actually was more autonomous than him in the jungle because even if she could get low (hint: a good pull alleviates that) she wasn't as easily fucked up or useless than him. Naut can't level 2 gank (even with a huge pull) and he puts himself behind in terms of farm if he ganks at level 3 (which Sej could do without problems) unless he gets kill gold.
Even before the rework she had way more damage than Amumu at levels 2 to 5 (her W is a lot of damage to squishies) and she can gank through walls, which Naut can't.
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On May 14 2013 09:13 Alaric wrote:
"Hey guys, X champion is almost the same but a bit better, surely that wins this one is utter shit and we should never ever consider him at all."
Before the latest Naut buffs Sejuani actually was more autonomous than him in the jungle because even if she could get low (hint: a good pull alleviates that) she wasn't as easily fucked up or useless than him. Naut can't level 2 gank (even with a huge pull) and he puts himself behind in terms of farm if he ganks at level 3 (which Sej could do without problems) unless he gets kill gold.
Even before the rework she had way more damage than Amumu at levels 2 to 5 (her W is a lot of damage to squishies) and she can gank through walls, which Naut can't.
I was referencing when they came out. Naut would nearly do everything she did better and safer.
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I play sejuani in every ranked game now if I get the jungle. Even after nerf, she is a ridiculous champion with 2 hard CCs and mega slow. Although my runes/masteries are what everyone gets (9/21/0), I max out her E first for the peel and nuking power.
Her core is simple. Get ancient golem, ninja tabi and your liandry's as soon as you can. Once you have these 3 items, you become a scary tank that does alot of damage with excellent CC. Build whatever your team needs afterwards, usually I go Aegis/Bulwark so talk to your support on who's on Aegis duty.
Nothing feels better than throwing your ult to stun 5 enemies and your team proceeds to lay waste.
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Liandry's is a pretty bad item on sej tbh...
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I've been really liking Foxdrop's recommended build of Ancient Golem -> Mobi Boots/Tabi -> Bulwark -> Liandry's on Sejuani.
It feels a bit more stable to me than Zariel's order, probably because the resists make any other +HP purchases even more valuable.
Liandry's offers Sej so many things that she wants, but I'm convinced that you get more out of it by picking it up that little bit later in the game than by rushing it.
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I too think that you should delay getting liandry's until later. There's also the issue that it doesn't stack; if you have a rumble or xerath or something that usually builds it, let them take it, I think.
I prefer getting Ancient Golem -> Bulwark (if they have decent AP damage) -> Boots 2 -> Sunfire. Sunfire is more health, armor, and comparable damage in a lot of situations. Sometimes if there is a lot of AP on both teams I'll build Abyssal instead of Sunfire. But Sunfire's very good on her, since your job is to roll around in the middle of their team and create havoc, dive towers and soak hits, and your W scales off +health.
The problem with Liandry's is that all it lets you do is more damage, and to people who are full on health. It's a thing that lets you dive into a team and burn their frontline down to 2/3 health. But until lategame you're not going to be able to do that without getting blown up, and that's not Sejuani's primary job anyway; she is there to be a brick wall that is hard as hell to kill, hard to get past (because of the CC), and provides enough damage that you can't ignore her. So I'd rather build to get as tanky as possible as quickly as possible to become that brick wall. Building tanky lets you do more damage anyway: you can go more ham without dying.
Last game I played I bought it, but that's because nobody else had one and we were stomping them (and I was sort of fed). Usually, though, after spirit of bluebuff/bulwark/sunfire I build things like randuin's or frozen heart; I'd rather have 4000 health and 240 armor than the liandry's burn.
Edit: I also think that maxing E first is better. You have almost as much damage in the ideal case (where you stick to them during the whole duration of your W), more in the sub-ideal case (where you don't), and the extra slow makes your ganks so hard to get away from. She's a tanky CC monster and should act like it, not worry about doin' the deeps.
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What runes are people currently running on her? With her early jungle being less fragile than it's historically been, I guess there's quite a bit of room to manoeuvre.
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mpen,armor,mr/lvl,mspd
alternative:
reds could be aspd (quicker clear vs better vs champ dilemma, imo you press w twice to clear most camps either way so i prefer mpen)
quints could be health (health scales worse on sej now...but still an option especially if you don't own mspd quints)
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I run:
movespeed quints
scaling MR blues
armor yellows
either armor or mpen reds
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8006/screen01qp.png)
![[image loading]](http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2678/screen02w.png)
