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![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/0H4x2.jpg)
The most fabulous support in the whole league
Taric is a tanky support champion that brings lane dominance and roaming power. While he's never been an overpowered champion (unless you count the old days of Garen/Taric), he has remained a great support option.
Important Pictures and Threads
+ Show Spoiler +
Patch Changes
+ Show Spoiler +v1.0.0.109 - 2011-01-17
Fixed a bug with Radiance where it would cause performance issues while on
v1.0.0.103 - 2010-10-18
Imbue mana cost increased to 80/95/110/125/140 from 70/85/100/115/130
Imbue heal reduced to 60/100/140/180/220 from 70/110/150/190/230
v1.0.0.101 - 2010-09-21
Radiance now has a brief cooldown when activated with the goal of preventing quick cancellation after initiation
v1.0.0.100 - 2010-09-08
Imbue base heal reduced to 80/120/160/200/240 from 100/145/190/235/280
Imbue ability power ratio increased to 1.1 from 0.9
v1.0.0.98 - 2010-08-10
Imbue heal reduced to 100/145/190/235/280 from 100/150/200/250/300
v1.0.0.96 - Season 1 - 2010-07-13
Fixed a bug where Dazzle could stun for longer than 2 seconds
v1.0.0.86 - 2010-06-01
Dazzle minimum stun duration increased to 1.0 seconds from 0.5
Base damage increased to 58 from 56
Base damage per level increased to 3.5 from 3.3
v1.0.0.83 - 2010-04-27
Imbue cooldown reduced to 16/15/14/13/12 from 20/19/18/17/16
Imbue base heal amount increased to 100/150/200/250/300 from 70/120/170/220/270
Fixed a bug with Dazzle that was incorrectly calculating minimum damage
Radiance:
Radiance no longer heals surrounding allied units
Upkeep mana reduced to 4/7/10 from 10/15/20
Startup mana cost increased to 20 from 10
v1.0.0.74 - 2010-02-10
Fixed a bug with Radiance where it was providing too little damage
Skills
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/maCfP.jpg) Passive: GemcraftTaric's autoattacks replenish his mana for 7.5% of the damage dealt. This is a weird passive. You usually don't want to be spending your time autoattacking creeps as it'll push your lane, but if you do happen upon some last hits, it's some good mana regen. Just be warned that abusing this passive to its "full potential" promotes bad play!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QtxL1.jpg) Q:ImbueTaric channels earthen energy to heal his target ally. As the magic flows through them he is healed for the same amount. If Taric heals only himself, the heal will be 40% more effective. His autoattacks decrease this spell's cooldown by 2 seconds each. Taric's heal. It's unique for two reasons - if Taric heals an ally, he also recieves the same heal amount. If he heals himself, it's 1.4x effective. So it's a tradeoff, but it also allows both you and a lane partner to play more aggressively and know you'll have an effective heal. Just note that with Taric's small early mana pool, this skill can be quite taxing. The cooldown also decreases for autoattacking, but again - don't abuse it! There's untold horrors for pushing your lane constantly.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rUjPR.jpg) W: Shatter(Passive): Taric gains bonus armor permanently. (Passive Aura): Taric hardens crystals around him, providing additional bonus armor to himself and nearby allies. (Active): Taric shatters the crystals surrounding him, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies and decreasing their armor for 4 seconds. The passive aura is not in effect during the cooldown. This can be a little confusing. There's three effects to this. 1) Taric gains armor as you level up this skill permanently. That bonus armor cannot be taken off of you in any way.
2) Taric emits an aura that gives bonus armor to any champions in that radius, including himself.
3) Activating the skill is an AoE nuke that reduces the opponent's armor. This also removes the aura from part 2 until the skill comes off cooldown.
This is an incredibly versatile skill that is great against AD lanes. You can reduce the damage done to yourself and your allies or you can increase the damage done by AD characters by activating the nuke. At max level, it's an extra 60 armor. That's outrageous.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tnxVp.jpg) E: DazzleTaric emits a brilliant ball of prismatic light at an enemy from his gemmed shield, dealing magic damage (lower damage the farther the target is), and stunning them for 1 - 2 seconds (longer stun the farther the target is). A simple targeted stun with decent range. It travels very slowly, which makes it easy to flash away, but it stuns longer as a tradeoff. Combined with Shatter, it's a great harrassment tool. While you may be tempted to level this skill, the damage is unreliable without AP items and the cooldown for Shatter won't be able to keep up as it is.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X9Xxl.jpg) R: RadianceTaric emits a brilliant light, healing himself each second and increasing his attack damage. Additionally, it grants half the attack damage bonus to nearby allied champions. The cost to sustain Radiance increases each second. This skill is great for early to midgame teamfights and for pushing towers. The increased attack damage is a huge boon late game at well - 45 damage to your allies, 90 to yourself at max level. Again, though - this skill is incredibly mana intensive, so keeping it up for long periods of time isn't really viable unless you have a gigantic mana pool. Judging when to use this is something that comes with practice and good decision making, as it has a 20 second cooldown.
Builds
I'd like to emphasize again that Taric is primarily a tanky support, although there's lots of builds you can do with him - some more viable than others. If you're playing him as a support in the current meta, you'll get little to no farm, so your job is to maximize your effectiveness with few items.
Support Taric
+ Show Spoiler +RunesQuints: 3x Flat HP or 3x MS Marks: 9x MPen Seals: 9x Flat Armor or 9x HP/level or 9x MP5/level Glyphs: 9x Flat MR or 9x MR/level or 9x MP5/level Another option is to take a Gold/10 quint or two, as you will be getting little farm. Masteries0/9/21 always. The reason for taking 21 Utility is to minimize the cooldown of Clairvoyance. Summoner SpellsClairvoyance/Flash or Clairvoyance/Ghost. Clairvoyance is hands down the best support spell. Flash and Ghost are for mobility. There are some rare cases where you'll want to take Exhaust, but good Clairvoyances will help win games. Skill OrderEQWW R>W>Q>E E helps for Level 1 teamfights. After that, you want to take Q for lane sustainability. After that, take additional levels of Q only when necessary. Items+ Show Spoiler +Start
Regrowth+Pot
Boots+Pot+Ward
Faerie Charm+Pots+Ward
Doran's Ring
These are all dependent on the matchup, but you should try to get early gold/10 items as soon as possible to make up for your lack of farm.
Core:
Philo Stone
Heart of Gold
Merc Treads
Wards
Oracle
Gold/10 items are your lifeblood and keep you relevant. As a support player, either you or the jungler will want to grab Oracles. Most of your gold should be spent on wards whenever possible. Otherwise, as a melee character, your other items will be spent trying to get tanky.
Luxury
Sunfire Cape
Banshee's Veil
Aegis
Reverie
Spirit Visage
Optional
Turn Philo into Miracle so you can take CDR boots instead of Merc.
Kage's Lucky Pick is another gold/10 item you can think about picking up.
Frozen Heart and Abyssal Scepter are also decent choices for specific situations.
If you're struggling and need some more general stats, Doran's Rings are cost efficient choices.
Deathcap is good AP if you need it...but it's a lot of gold invested into an item that doesn't help you survive nearly as much
Don't Buy
Soul Shroud: There's just better items to buy, and that 15% CDR aura really isn't worth it.
Mejai's: Taric is a melee champion. Unless you know you're going to be 11+ stacks for most of the game, you'll be putting yourself in too many dangerous situations to make use of this item.
Force of Nature: Taric doesn't need extra regen. He needs HP to survive burst. Between your Q and R, if you can't live, the extra regen from FoN isn't going to save you. Better off increasing your mana pool through Bveil.
You're a manly, manly support. Go bottom and be manly. If a level 1 teamfight happens, E is great initiation. The most important thing is to be sure your lane partner can farm, and when you see the opportunity, go in for an E/W combo. If your lane partner contributes, it'll be some easy damage. Realize that your heal, while mana efficient, is rather costly and you won't be able to outlast other AD/Support lanes if you don't put any pressure on them. If your lane partner can hold the lane by himself, feel free to roam, especially if you started Boots. You can go annoy the middle lane with an E/W combo, and often that's enough for your solo to win the lane around levels 3-4. Other than that, keep warding and make sure your bottom lane partner gets farm.. During midgame, you can push down towers relatively quickly with some help, thanks to your R. Late game, your heals will definitely start to die off unless you've been building some AP, but you still provide a lot of utility between your ultimate, stun, and shatter. The most difficult part is playing the early game correctly - knowing when to start a skirmish, when to play aggressive, and where to be on the map.
AP Taric
+ Show Spoiler +RunesQuints: 3x Flat AP or 3x Flat HP Marks: 9x MPen Seals: 9x Armor or 9x MP5/level or 9x HP/level Glyphs: 9x MP5/level or 9x Flat AP or 9x Flat MR or 9x Flat CDR An alternative runeset against AD lanes is Quints: 3x Flat Armor Marks: 9x Flat Armor Seals: 9x Flat Armor Glyphs: 9x Flat Armor Masteries0/21/9 or 0/9/21 If you feel that your lane matchup is going to need you to pump mana heavily outside of your natural regen, go with 0/9/21. Otherwise, 0/21/9 lets you farm without caring about what anyone does. Summoner SpellsViable options here are Exhaust, Ignite, Flash, and Ghost. Make sure at least one spell is an escape, though. You want one spell for utility in fights - Exhaust makes it nearly impossible to lose a 1v1, and Ignite gives you some extra damage and is obvious against healers. Teleport is also an option, if you feel like you're going to get outlasted in lane. Skill OrderWEQW W>E>Q>R Only take Q when you need to! Although E has a great ratio, its base damage is very unreliable, so until you get some AP, leave it alone. It also has a shorter cooldown than W, so in lane you won't be using your main combo of EW until W is off cooldown. Items+ Show Spoiler +Start
Regrowth+Pot
Mana Crystal+Pots
Doran's Ring
Boots+Pots
2x Faerie Charm+Pots
Cloth Armor+Pots
You can mix and match mana potions with health potions, since you have a heal.
Core:
Catalyst
Deathcap
Sorc Boots or CDR Boots
Get AP and get it quickly. Not much else to say about it.
Luxury
Void Staff
Banshee's Veil
Abyssal Scepter
Deathfire Grasp
I've seen all of the above work depending on the enemy team composition. If you need extra oomph because the other team is building MR, go straight for void staff. If you want some MR yourself and need to avoid targeted stuns, Banshee's Veil is a good choice. But if you can get away with it, Abyssal is a nice addition that helps you stay tanky enough if you need to play as a melee mage, while also giving you more damage.
Optional
Stack Doran's Rings: I would never get more than 3, and even then, I would rather have 2x Doran's Ring and...
Kage's Lucky Pick: If you need some extra gold and some more burst, you can later turn this into a Deathfire Grasp
Lich Bane: You might need to tank up a little bit to use this, but combined with Shatter, your Lich Bane procs will hurt like crazy.
Don't Buy
Rylai's Crystal Scepter: You have two offensive spells on decently long cooldown. One is a stun. The other is an AoE spell. Please don't get this.
Hextech Revolver: You have a heal. You don't need spell vamp.
Guinsoo's Rageblade: This would be okay if you were to build tanky enough to maintain the stacks on it as you bumrush them. AP Taric does not play like this!
Okay, let's look at Taric's AP ratios to understand where this playstyle comes from. E is a 1.0 ratio, W is a 0.5 ratio. Your damage will be decent, but not amazing unless you get lots of good farm. Luckily, Taric with the right runes and masteries is incredibly durable. Your Q is a 1.1 ratio, but it's 40% more effective healing yourself. Your Shatter gives you even more free armor. Between these two, you can shrug off almost any AD lane (some melee DPS matchups are still hard) and farm in peace. Don't be afraid to harrass your lane opponent using EW - It does good damage, and is often a free autottack or two after with their reduced armor. Take a solo lane. It's possible to make this build work in a duo lane, but your farm is going to come really slowly. You don't have the advantage of a huge burst like Annie, but you have constant, unrelenting harrass combined with mana regen mechanics from your passive, and a heal with a short cooldown. During laning, you'll be strong all through the first 6 levels. Some AP characters may give you a hard time, but you should be able to hold most lanes well enough to farm. Taric is by no means a phenomonal laner, and I personally only take him to a solo lane when I know I'll be matched up against an AD character. It will be difficult to outright kill your opponent without a gank, but you can harrass them out of lane slowly but surely. Don't be afraid to push if you have vision. If you can force the lane to their tower when you're level 6, you can really dent it with your ultimate. You should aim to force your opponent out of lane a little bit before you hit 6 to try to maximize this. Once teamfights start, just pick a squishy target, combo them, retreat, heal where necessary and repeat. Whether to prioritize healing or going in for damage is reliant on how the game is going. If your Irelia can dive them 1v3, focus on keeping her alive with your massive heals, comboing people to support her. If the enemy's Caitlyn is tearing you up, chase her out of the fight and combo her so that she's too low to come back in. Be very careful, though - Taric is a melee mage, and if you're not careful, you'll get blown up very quickly. You can also threaten targets with your stun and chase them out of the fight - this is where exhaust comes in handy. Flash->Stun is incredibly strong for initiation if you catch the right person, and it'll be even more hilarious when you take off half of their life with the stun. The last thing to realize is that your mana pool will be small unless you have something besides just Catalyst. As a result, you'll have to measure your mana pool quickly, and you may find yourself exhausted in long fights.
AP Taric (Duo Lane)
+ Show Spoiler +RunesQuints: 3x Flat AP Marks: 9x MPen Seals: 9x Armor or 9x MP5/level or 9x HP/level Glyphs: 9x MP5/level or 9x Flat AP Squeeze as much AP into the runes as you can get away with. Depending on what lane you're playing against, you may have to swap out for some MP5 runes. Masteries9/0/21 In more passive support builds, you want 0/9/21 to be tanky and boss people around, but your real utility as an AP support is ridiculous early burst. 15% magic penetration is essential. Summoner SpellsClairvoyance/Flash always, unless you somehow convinced your jungler to pick up CV. In that case, take Ignite/Exhaust. Skill OrderWEQW W/E>E/W>Q>R Only take Q when you need to! E has a shorter cooldown than W, so in lane you won't be using your main combo of EW until W is off cooldown. As such, level accordingly. Remember also that your mana pool is limited. Items+ Show Spoiler +Start
Regrowth+Pot
Mana Crystal+Pots
Doran's Ring
Boots+Pots
2x Faerie Charm+Pots
Cloth Armor+Pots
You can mix and match mana potions with health potions, since you have a heal.
Core:
Doran's Ring x3
Deathcap
Sorc Boots or CDR Boots
Wards
Oracle
Your core will come very slowly as a support, since you won't get many creep kills. As such, you need to make sure you're pressuring your lane so you can keep building AP and stay relevant. At the very least, make sure the other lane is behind yours.
Luxury
Void Staff
Banshee's Veil
Abyssal Scepter
Deathfire Grasp
I've seen all of the above work depending on the enemy team composition. If you need extra oomph because the other team is building MR, go straight for void staff. If you want some MR yourself and need to avoid targeted stuns, Banshee's Veil is a good choice. But if you can get away with it, Abyssal is a nice addition that helps you stay tanky enough if you need to play as a melee mage, while also giving you more damage.
Optional
Kage's Lucky Pick: If you need some extra gold and some more burst, you can later turn this into a Deathfire Grasp
Lich Bane: You might need to tank up a little bit to use this, but combined with Shatter, your Lich Bane procs will hurt like crazy.
Don't Buy
Rylai's Crystal Scepter: You have two offensive spells on decently long cooldown. One is a stun. The other is an AoE spell. Please don't get this.
Hextech Revolver: You have a heal. You don't need spell vamp.
Guinsoo's Rageblade: This would be okay if you were to build tanky enough to maintain the stacks on it as you bumrush them. AP Taric does not play like this!
AP Taric is very abusive to bottom lanes. Compare Taric to other supports - at early levels, Soraka has a heal on a long CD. You can outburst her heals if you and your lane partner work together. Sona's heal/mana ratios are terrible, and with a lot of starting AP, you'll exhaust her mana pool before she does yours. Janna doesn't have a heal, and you have better burst with the early AP. The point is, you want to play the lane aggressively if you're against a support/AD lane. AP Taric as a support works well if your lane partner hurts early. Good candidates are MF and Caitlyn. Corki and Ashe also work, but I prefer the first two. Your role is still the same as playing support in any other fashion. Just remember that once you get your Doran's Rings, you should be ahead of the other bottom lane, which will give you more gold to ward and build toward your deathcap. The goal is to try to get the Deathcap before the other team's carries start to build serious MR.
AD Jungle Taric
+ Show Spoiler +RunesQuints: 3x Flat HP Marks: 9x ArPen Seals: 9x Armor Glyphs: 9x Attack Speed We gonna go nab ourselves some creep kills. Masteries21/0/9 if you can get away with it and have a good leash at blue. Summoner SpellsSmite/Flash. Non-negotiable. Skill OrderWQWE W>E>R>Q Shatter gives flat armor reduction. Max that first. Your ultimate is actually useful as an AD jungler, so you'll want to grab levels of that whenever you can. (In other builds, you can delay taking your ultimate until ~Level 11 and grab two levels in it, because that's when you shine. Not here. You need that ulti to increase your DEEPZ). Items+ Show Spoiler +Start
Cloth Armor+Pots
Long Sword + Pot
You can mix and match mana potions with health potions, since you have a heal. Make sure you have a really good leash on blue if you're going to start Longsword. Taric has a heal to sustain through the jungle, but blue golem will still beat you up before you get it.
Core:
Wriggle's Lantern
Youmuu's Ghostblade
Berserker Greaves or Mercury Treads
More ArPen and AD so you can wail on people and kill them with your giant hammer. Wriggle's is is a no-brainer for any jungler. Youmuu's gives you pretty much everything you want.
Luxury
Black Cleaver
Warmog's/Atma's
Phage
Cleaver gives you more Armor Reduction. Between Shatter, Youmuu's, ArPen runes, and Cleaver, you'll probably be able to reduce anybody to <100 armor. Squishies might even find themselves at negative armor. Atmog's is if you're having a good game, as it's hard to farm all that up in the jungle. You'll still get most of the Warmog's stacks from assists/kills in solo queue, so if you're feeling brave, try it. Phage is for sticking onto people if you need it. You probably won't, since your self healing is incredibly strong 1v1 and you have a stun.
Optional
Trinity Force: If you have tons of money to throw away, this is cool I guess.
Cloak and Dagger: If you need Tenacity, this is a decent option to look at.
Don't Buy
Infinity Edge: Unless, of course, you're incredibly fed.
Bloodthirster: You won't be tanky enough as a jungle AD to keep the stacks up. After all, you're essentially a melee DPS, playing in this role.
Standard route. Blue - Wolves - Wraiths - Red - Double Golem. You're a jungler with a 650 range stun. Go gank people. You can also 1v1 a lot of champions later in the game, thanks to all your AD and self healing. Just make sure not to run out of mana. Go kill people.
Notable Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On August 09 2011 03:09 Niton wrote:
WotA can actually be really strong on sidelane AP Taric if you wind up with a team that gets great benefit from the aura. DFG is -usually- best, but if you're not expecting heavy cash flow, the 2100g for 80 AP and 30 for each other AP using member of your team is quite strong.
Also, Chalice is quite strong in place of the third D-Ring in situations where your mana expenditure is heavier. I made a big post earlier in the topic about it - it's retarded just how gold efficient Chalice is on Taric in particular, and trading 400g + 15 AP for 30 Mp5 is all the mana you should ever need. Just don't buy it if you think your team might give you blue. On July 30 2011 15:55 Niton wrote:
So I've gone full-circle. Starting a couple of days ago, I've been buying Chalice again. A year ago I thought it was the greatest thing ever, but until I started trying it out again I thought I was retarded for thinking that. Even in a 3 Doran's Ring game, I find myself thinking "If I had more mana, I could do more". I'm not going to ask for my team's blue buff, so I started thinking about what I could do to make up that amount of mana.
Catalyst is 1325g, and while it offers an amazing passive on level-up, the 325 static mana doesn't replenish itself very quickly without it. It also offers the option to build into Rod of Ages (ok) or Banshee's (really good) if you wind up with extra money, though as AP Taric that's less common.
Tear is 990g, but it's all spent on mana - without building it into Archangel's or (ugh) Manamune, it's not really a good use of gold. Like Catalyst, most of the mana obtained doesn't automatically replenish itself.
Philosopher's Stone is the next best option, but at 800g it's only 90g cheaper than Chalice. There's not a strong secondary defensive stat on it, either - you trade 90g, the gold passive and 18 Hp5 for 30 MR and the scaling Mp5 passive.
So that leaves us with Chalice of Harmony. For 890g, you get:
- 30 MR, your 'weak' defensive point with Doran's Rings and Shatter
- 7.5 base mp5
- Scaling mana regeneration that amplifies the effect of other sources.
At level 11, your mp5 is 11.2 (base) + 10 (2x Doran's) + 3 (Utility) + regen item of choice.
With Philosopher's Stone, your total Mp5 will be 34.2
With Chalice of Harmony, your total Mp5 will be 33.7 at 100% mana.
75%: 42.125
50%: 50.55
25%: 58.975
0%: 67.4 (!)
At that same level 11 figure, your total mana pool is 871.
Casting 1 Q (Rank 1), 1 W (Rank 5) and 1 E (Rank 5) is a total cost of 245 mana, bringing you to 69.5% of your total mana. Casting and maintaining your ult for any length of time brings you lower. Using that figure, the lowest benefit Taric will recieve from Chalice's immediately is 10.25 mp5. Any use of your ult or any additional spells cast will increase the net benefit.
My conclusion? At least on Support/AP Taric, it's worth giving a shot. The MR's pretty noticable, and it's amazing for getting your mana back after running your ult without having to back. Being a frontliner support, the resists are actually pretty relevant!
My current Support/AP build:
Doran's Ring
Boots1
Doran's Ring
Boots2
Chalice of Harmony
Will of the Ancients (or Abyssal Scepter, or Deathcap if the game's going very well)
Man, that's a lot of words about a (supposedly) shit-tier item.
Addendum:
Another combination which can work very well is Eleisa's Miracle + Ninja's Tabi / Sorceror's Shoes / Ionian Boots of Lucidity.
25 HP and 20 MP5 are both significant amounts, and Miracle's tenacity opens up the ability to get boots that better match the situation you're in.
Planned Future Updates
Lane matchups as Support Taric - what to do against certain types of lanes depending on your lane partner.
Roaming
Changelog
+ Show Spoiler +
v1.00 (19/07/2011) I made guide
v1.01 (20/07/2011) Added AP Taric build
v1.02 (08/08/2011) Added AP Taric (support) build
v1.03 (08/08/2011) Added AD Jungle Taric build, added "Notable Posts" section where Niton does all the work and I just go "yep", added "Important Pictures and Threads" section
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Remember when Soul Shroud was the end-all of support items and arguing against it was insanity?
Also, imo Ninja Tabi + Miracle is quite viable against certain physical-reliant team comps.
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AP Taric is legit as hell. I'd argue it's even more useful to a team than the typical support build, especially in solo queue.
I'd like to see more info about roaming, since if you don't exert your strong early game you'll just be dead weight late game and GG 4v5. Loci's replay + commentary is gold.
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On July 20 2011 06:59 Niton wrote:
Remember when Soul Shroud was the end-all of support items and arguing against it was insanity?
Also, imo Ninja Tabi + Miracle is quite viable against certain physical-reliant team comps.
I think part of the problem was that there simply weren't other good support items. You were limited to Aegis and Soul Shroud. Now that you can build so many different viable items for support, it's definitely fallen by the wayside.
On July 20 2011 07:13 Lanzoma wrote:
AP Taric is legit as hell. I'd argue it's even more useful to a team than the typical support build, especially in solo queue.
I'd like to see more info about roaming, since if you don't exert your strong early game you'll just be dead weight late game and GG 4v5. Loci's replay + commentary is gold.
AP Taric is fun as hell, especially because no one expect Dazzle to take off half of their HP with its 1:1 AP ratio.
As far as roaming goes, I'll work on it. 
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AP Taric es #1 taric always kill never die
the amount of burst you can do combined with your heals and stun is seriously crazy with the right lane partner (aka anyone with a brain)
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Wow I wrote a lot for a troll build.
Updated with AP Taric.
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Why do you list the full armor rune page for AP Taric but not Support Taric? I think the fully defensive rune page is much more useful for Support than something that has MPen. I currently run Gold/5 Quints, Armor Reds/Yellows and MR/lvl Blues.
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I actually meant AP taric duo lane, not solo lane.
E > W > Q > R, get Q early if necessary
mpen reds, ap/lvl yellows, flat ap blues & quints
dring open -> boots -> drings / kage pick -> sorcs | dfg
Your playstyle is entirely focused in killing the squishiest of the other duo. E is the strongest non-ultimate nuke in the game[citation needed] if it hits up close (400 max base damage at rank 5), and W's damage growth is decent and shreds armor for your lanemate to finish them off. If you can't feed yourself anymore through bot lane, go roam and kill mid lane or their jungler.
This build doesn't work if your lane partner is a weak laner (e.g. ashe) that will die if they retaliate. It also doesn't work if their lane is soraka + strong laner or a cc duo. In those cases, though, just pick another support.
Mid game you play like Sion with a mediocre heal. Late game you should already have the game won or you're screwed.
The thing about taric is that he's not really supporty for a support character. His heal has mediocre base stats and long cd, his W buff is meh vs double AP setups, and his R is a mana drain that barely helps your team with the current split up teamfights. If you don't push your early game advantage, the game becomes 4v5 past 30 minutes.
How 2 fix? Build AP and go all out early game. Help your lanes win HARD so that there is no late game. Surprise the enemy carry with your decision and your 600-700 damage combo. Have tons of fun while doing this.
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On July 21 2011 03:01 arnath wrote:
Why do you list the full armor rune page for AP Taric but not Support Taric? I think the fully defensive rune page is much more useful for Support than something that has MPen. I currently run Gold/5 Quints, Armor Reds/Yellows and MR/lvl Blues.
Armor reds are incredibly inefficient, mostly. You're going to want MPen because Taric plays aggressively in lane - the extra damage from the MPen is definitely noticeable, and your Shatter aura should be enough to keep you good on armor. In a solo lane, you're going to be taking the full brunt of the harrass, and any time you combo, you're most likely going to run up to autoattack, drawing creep aggro. Again - I only recommend that rune page against ranged AD. Even then, I sometimes swap out my armor reds for MPen because it adds so much damage early-midgame.
The only support that doesn't really want MPen reds is Soraka, because she just wants to mass AP. Hell, she could even use AP/Level reds if she wanted, despite how bad they are.
On July 21 2011 03:33 Lanzoma wrote:
I actually meant AP taric duo lane, not solo lane.
Yeah, I know AP Taric in a duo lane is good for solo queue, but I'm not quite sure yet whether to make it another section entirely or lump it in with Support. You have pretty much the same idea as me, though - I just have to add it in.
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So i've been messing around with getting Will of the Ancients as a rush item on AP Support Taric today - preliminary results seem pretty nice, you have a nuke that will give you back quite a bit of health from it yourself, and there's almost always someone near you who also likes the AP.
The allchat wtfs make it all worth it.
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On July 20 2011 07:13 Lanzoma wrote:
AP Taric is legit as hell. I'd argue it's even more useful to a team than the typical support build, especially in solo queue.
I'd like to see more info about roaming, since if you don't exert your strong early game you'll just be dead weight late game and GG 4v5. Loci's replay + commentary is gold.
with the current state of the game, i wouldn't recommend roaming, ur ranged carry will simply get shit on and you'll have trouble for the rest of the game. Its better to exert ur early game power to make farming safe for your lane mate. if its not a ranged carry however, its fair game.
another thing i'd like to mention is that you dont necessarily lvl R>W>Q>E, its suuuuper game dependant. W first is great for if you're winning, q you're going to want if your not. also i very often delay my r to as much as lvl 11 before grabbing it if i know we're not pushing towers yet. i actually very rarely get it at lvl 6, simply because its main use is for teamfights and pushing, but if its still in the stage where 2v2 skirmishes are happening, its much better to be lvling w and q.
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barbsq is right to an extent, but in the situations that lanzoma is describing (aka when you've netted your carry like 6 kills bot) you can leave the lane to gank other lanes because your carry will simply double kill the enemy if they try to kill her
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ah yeah, actually thats true, i was thinking more from a lvl 1 roaming standpoint and just roaming all game. I think the best time is when your carry hits abt lvl 11, you can grab ult and go from lane to lane pushing, ganking, healing and warding when applicable.
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Just tried a game as AP taric, (albeit with lowbie friends), and I crushed an MF top lane. Oh my god shatter hits realllly hard and you just ignore her with 100 armor at lvl 3 trololololo
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Taric + non-sivir ranged AD Carry on bot lane is free elo/wins (corki, MF, Ez, Ashe, cait)
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solo mid taric with dring stacking -> nashor's tooth -> rageblade real OP.
Ultimate DPS
Ultimate armor
Ultimate AP damage
Ultimate heal
best 1 man team imoimoimo
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So I've gone full-circle. Starting a couple of days ago, I've been buying Chalice again. A year ago I thought it was the greatest thing ever, but until I started trying it out again I thought I was retarded for thinking that. Even in a 3 Doran's Ring game, I find myself thinking "If I had more mana, I could do more". I'm not going to ask for my team's blue buff, so I started thinking about what I could do to make up that amount of mana.
Catalyst is 1325g, and while it offers an amazing passive on level-up, the 325 static mana doesn't replenish itself very quickly without it. It also offers the option to build into Rod of Ages (ok) or Banshee's (really good) if you wind up with extra money, though as AP Taric that's less common.
Tear is 990g, but it's all spent on mana - without building it into Archangel's or (ugh) Manamune, it's not really a good use of gold. Like Catalyst, most of the mana obtained doesn't automatically replenish itself.
Philosopher's Stone is the next best option, but at 800g it's only 90g cheaper than Chalice. There's not a strong secondary defensive stat on it, either - you trade 90g, the gold passive and 18 Hp5 for 30 MR and the scaling Mp5 passive.
So that leaves us with Chalice of Harmony. For 890g, you get:
- 30 MR, your 'weak' defensive point with Doran's Rings and Shatter
- 7.5 base mp5
- Scaling mana regeneration that amplifies the effect of other sources.
At level 11, your mp5 is 11.2 (base) + 10 (2x Doran's) + 3 (Utility) + regen item of choice.
With Philosopher's Stone, your total Mp5 will be 34.2
With Chalice of Harmony, your total Mp5 will be 33.7 at 100% mana.
75%: 42.125
50%: 50.55
25%: 58.975
0%: 67.4 (!)
At that same level 11 figure, your total mana pool is 871.
Casting 1 Q (Rank 1), 1 W (Rank 5) and 1 E (Rank 5) is a total cost of 245 mana, bringing you to 69.5% of your total mana. Casting and maintaining your ult for any length of time brings you lower. Using that figure, the lowest benefit Taric will recieve from Chalice's immediately is 10.25 mp5. Any use of your ult or any additional spells cast will increase the net benefit.
My conclusion? At least on Support/AP Taric, it's worth giving a shot. The MR's pretty noticable, and it's amazing for getting your mana back after running your ult without having to back. Being a frontliner support, the resists are actually pretty relevant!
My current Support/AP build:
Doran's Ring
Boots1
Doran's Ring
Boots2
Chalice of Harmony
Will of the Ancients (or Abyssal Scepter, or Deathcap if the game's going very well)
Man, that's a lot of words about a (supposedly) shit-tier item.
Addendum:
Another combination which can work very well is Eleisa's Miracle + Ninja's Tabi / Sorceror's Shoes / Ionian Boots of Lucidity.
25 HP and 20 MP5 are both significant amounts, and Miracle's tenacity opens up the ability to get boots that better match the situation you're in.
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gold per 5 is okay
chalice is okay
BUT MASS DORANS IS WHERE ITS AT
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The build for taric is like
boots ward pot
dorans
dorans
dorans
dorans
NLR
Deathcap
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Is the normal chalice, cdr boots and aegis build still okay? I just found out about Taric's passive and that autoattacking decreases the cd on his Q. Building tanky allows him to autoattack like a boss with ult on during fights.
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Jungle AD Taric (this works)
Armor seals
Armor pen red
HP quints
AS blues (anything is good really)
21/0/9 or 1/8/21
Wriggles -> Zerkers (you're the boss) -> Youmoo's -> Atmogs
Standard clear route, except you can lvl 3 gank (you start W, then Q and then you can either take another point in W or go E and gank mid)
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Taric is like #1 support bot. Too bad people don't play alistar.
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Why don't people run Taric as top solo lane more often?
AP Taric does ridiculous burst in lane and has really strong sustain without ever leveling his heal beyond 1.
I'd imagine it'd be like a Nid solo top except with more burst.
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...because no one got #1 solo q with solo top Taric. I'm pretty sure that's the most obvious answer. - If you try it, your team will troll and lose for you np.
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Jungle Taric too fabulous for normals.
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On August 04 2011 05:27 r.Evo wrote:
...because no one got #1 solo q with solo top Taric. I'm pretty sure that's the most obvious answer. - If you try it, your team will troll and lose for you np.
yea true. sad really. 'cuase i did taric solo top in some arranged normals and it was pretty darn boss.
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On July 31 2011 22:36 Sponkz wrote:
Jungle AD Taric (this works)
Armor seals
Armor pen red
HP quints
AS blues (anything is good really)
21/0/9 or 1/8/21
Wriggles -> Zerkers (you're the boss) -> Youmoo's -> Atmogs
Standard clear route, except you can lvl 3 gank (you start W, then Q and then you can either take another point in W or go E and gank mid)
wtf. Just tried this and it wasn't even too awkward. I'll prolly play around a bit with this cause his ganks are pretty damn sick. :D
(I ran 10arpen, rest AS for marks/quints and mres/level blues, 1 8 21)
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Bump worthy new post:
I just tried taric solo top, 9 0 21, full AP rune setup.
Ended up vs GP and 2 noc ganks within the first 3 levels, that kinda raped me hard, fell behind in farm way too much.
Though just from the feel of it, I think it's viable somehow. Especially vs all the common solo top picks 'cause you're pretty much an immovable object with a few levels in W. In teamfights you can easily walk into the middle of things after the initial CC got thrown around and E their carry, W them all, retreat and heal whoever needs it.
Probably would make more sense to run 0 9 21 and armor yellows.
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On August 05 2011 04:58 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2011 22:36 Sponkz wrote:
Jungle AD Taric (this works)
Armor seals
Armor pen red
HP quints
AS blues (anything is good really)
21/0/9 or 1/8/21
Wriggles -> Zerkers (you're the boss) -> Youmoo's -> Atmogs
Standard clear route, except you can lvl 3 gank (you start W, then Q and then you can either take another point in W or go E and gank mid) wtf. Just tried this and it wasn't even too awkward. I'll prolly play around a bit with this cause his ganks are pretty damn sick. :D (I ran 10arpen, rest AS for marks/quints and mres/level blues, 1 8 21)
Although he's a slow jungler, i feel somewhat as jarvan, bossing around on all 3 lanes lol.
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Abyssal scepter is incredibly good on AP Taric,
you are almost unkillable after a few dorans rings.
9/0/21 - standard caster runes.
3x Doran's Ring + CDR Boots + Abyssal Scepter
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Okay, work stopped being crazy. I'll finish this up soon. AD Jungle Taric and sidelane AP Taric are coming. And I told you guys how good solo lane AP Taric was before it was FotM!
And yeah, Abyssal is really good on Taric. Unless I specifically need the MR, however, or my team is running double caster instead of caster/tanky DPS solos, I'm more likely to buy Void Staff.
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WotA can actually be really strong on sidelane AP Taric if you wind up with a team that gets great benefit from the aura. DFG is -usually- best, but if you're not expecting heavy cash flow, the 2100g for 80 AP and 30 for each other AP using member of your team is quite strong.
Also, Chalice is quite strong in place of the third D-Ring in situations where your mana expenditure is heavier. I made a big post earlier in the topic about it - it's retarded just how gold efficient Chalice is on Taric in particular, and trading 400g + 15 AP for 30 Mp5 is all the mana you should ever need. Just don't buy it if you think your team might give you blue.
The build gtrsrs was trying out was:
- Dring
- Boots1
- Dring
- Blasting Wand
- Chalice
- Deathcap
- Other stuff
e: op is missing this
http://imgur.com/xic40.jpg
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AD Jungle Taric is in there.
I forgot about Manamune but I don't even know if you should build it on Taric, TBH.
EDIT: I guess I'll put in that picture too.
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Love love getting Chalice. I feel a significant mana upkeep allowing me to Q and E all day. I feel as if it's becoming a must have item whenever I play Taric.
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Edit: i thought i was in general discussion :l
Edit2: Taric new skin, yay
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Blasphemy! Real men play pink Taric.
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On August 10 2011 07:40 Papvin wrote:Blasphemy! Real men play pink Taric.
THIS!
Would only switch from the pink skin if there would be a skin where he'd ride a unicorn and the stun animation would be a rainbow :D
/related
http://i.imgur.com/oTDig.jpg
source
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Ok my blasphemous friend got this skin and I have to say its pretty dissapointing. His model looks way too small and the black makes it hard to make out the details. Really no reason to buy it when we have flameric <3
Really dissappointed though. People've been asking for a new taric skin for years and this is pretty meh =/
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AP Anything on this character is going to suck next patch.
I need to rewrite everything D:
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I disagree, at least for now. 40% CDR AP should still be a good build, since Q will be pretty weak even if you focus on it. Need to see the rest of the changes though.
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Where can I find said changes? Dont see them on official site.
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Is it just me, or is Taric really easy? I bought him, and within the first couple of games i was going 1-2-20+
(my build is kinda still retarded though. Open regrowth, Philo stone, HoG, Mercs, Lucky Pick, Shurellias, Randuins, FON, Mogs)
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On August 19 2011 12:23 57 Corvette wrote:
Is it just me, or is Taric really easy? I bought him, and within the first couple of games i was going 1-2-20+
(my build is kinda still retarded though. Open regrowth, Philo stone, HoG, Mercs, Lucky Pick, Shurellias, Randuins, FON, Mogs)
Yes and no. It's harder to feed with him than a lot of other champions because of his strong baseline, but as anyone who's played any amount of ranked games can tell you, people can find the most amazing ways to fail and/or feed with him.
He's actually pretty middle of the road for support, but that has a lot more to do with some of the others being true ezmode (sona lololololol) than his own difficulty.
e: Taric ezmode y u play him noob
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On August 19 2011 12:23 57 Corvette wrote:
Is it just me, or is Taric really easy? I bought him, and within the first couple of games i was going 1-2-20+
(my build is kinda still retarded though. Open regrowth, Philo stone, HoG, Mercs, Lucky Pick, Shurellias, Randuins, FON, Mogs)
I think he may seem easy because he has an innately solid laning phase, but he tends to fall off pretty hard, unless you stack AP on him. And you'll notice better players avoiding some of the Taric cheese that can go on and render him worthless mid-late. Hence IIRC Brees saying "he sucks after 15 minutes" and Neo saying "he sucks after level 11" hahah.
I'm very much a fan of building DRing on him and Soraka and just stacking those, because you don't really have the time to fuck around with gold over time items. That's my opinion anyways. We'll see how stuff changes with the next balance patch with all of them getting messed up though, so enjoy Mr. Easy until then :p
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I'm learning support class by using Taric and it's teaching me a lot about the game. Pretty cheesy at the start, especially against new players. Mid to late game is pretty weird because it is just wards and cv. Weird how I feel like i'm doing nothing but getting something like 1-2-20
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I don't think Taric is a good hero to "learn support" with because he's really not. He's a nuker that happens to have a heal.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 19 2011 16:08 Southlight wrote:
I don't think Taric is a good hero to "learn support" with because he's really not. He's a nuker that happens to have a heal.
I build Taric (and Janna now, to a degree, thanks to you) strictly AP. Not so much GP5. But regardless, he's ward bitch and he shouldn't initiate like an AP carry would. He's still a support by definition imo. Just a lot more aggro than Soraka or Sona.
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For the record I build Taric full DRing too, but that aside
I build Malzahar strictly AP. Not so much GP5.
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What are your guys thoughts on Taric initiating a fight on bot lane at level 1?
I main Soraka, and generally against Taric lanes I try to bait out a stun at level 1 and trade damage. This is usually dependent on how much initial damage I can get on him / his AD as they enter the lane. If I can steal their bush before they get into the lane and get at least 2 autos on his carry I'll almost always drop a ward into their bush and try to initiate a fight. If I can't do that I try to initiate much more safely - meaning I try to bait a stun that lands when I've broken LoS in my bush.
I find this to be the best way to handle him in lane. Usually if I let him get to level 3 with almost a full mana he ends up dominating the lane and giving his carry a free farm until jungles start roaming. Am I doing this right?
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Back in the Talon thread Moonbear listed number of possibilities for the Riven patch (with a disclaimer), one of which was:
Taric Ult Aura removed. Replaced with long CD game-changer. Like a point and click shield, or a spell that has 700 range and gives all allies in it a bug shield+armour+mres for 2 seconds. Or something. Would that make Taric players happier? (I know I would be.)
The idea of a game-changing ult was interesting (though I hold that long CD game-changers are not a necessary part of champion design, SEE: Anivia), but I have difficulty seeing how the new Radiance is more game changing than the old.
For comparison:
Old Taric:- 90 AD aura.
- 50 health per second self-heal.
- 20 second cooldown,
- 4-6 second effective duration without blue buff.
New Taric:- 70 AD/AP aura.
- 350 AoE damage (no self-heal),
- 80 second cooldown.
- 10 second set duration.
The only potential game-changing additions are the damage and the AP aura, neither of which strike me as particularly effective in that regard. Nobody calls Sona's ultimate "game-changing" because of its damage (which is incidentally better than Radiance's), and we wouldn't even have the new Radiance if people felt that damage-stat auras were game-changing.
So in the end we've traded a big chunk of survivability (50+ health per second was a huge part of his tankiness) and some AD for AP, AoE damage and a much longer cooldown.
To be clear I'm not saying the new Radiance is bad (though I like the old Radiance better), but I am saying that it doesn't appear to be particularly more game-changing than the old Radiance. In that regard, it appears that Riot's rework did not succeed in its goal.
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The idea of game-changing ult was brought up, ala Sona's ult. They simply did not go in that direction.
... instead, they decided he should be another nuker with a heal, like Lux/Morg/etc.
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Guess I should update this thread with his NEW AWESOME ULTI (it sucks and it's boring)
Obviously they weren't going to put a cool mechanic on it, though, they don't make any money from the 5000000 people who already bought Taric~
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I don't understand why they replaced a cool mechanic (actually considering and managing mana, self-healing) with a not cool mechanic (DAMAGE, also super long cooldown).
I think this is the first time Riot has made a change which I actively dislike.
Also, Lux/Morgana ultimates are arguably game changing. Certainly moreso than Taric's new one.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 16 2011 05:19 Southlight wrote:
The idea of game-changing ult was brought up, ala Sona's ult. They simply did not go in that direction.
... instead, they decided he should be another nuker with a heal, like Lux/Morg/etc.
A semi-global nuke and an AoE slow that forces you to reposition or get owned by the stun are not game-changing?
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Most importantly: Lux and Morg don't have heals.
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On September 16 2011 07:06 spinesheath wrote:
Most importantly: Lux and Morg don't have heals.
Morg might not have a heal, but she does have something that can be compared in practical situations: Black Shield. Black Shield's probably the best damage mitigation buff any 'support' brings, and Taric's new ult is somehow even more lackluster than Radiance, which had its share of 'oh man' moments and a few useful qualities.
Maybe it's as simple as adding a healing component to it, but I don't know if Riot would be willing to do a second rebalancing on the ult just to add it in. Either a burst heal, or a heal every second a target has the Radiance buff.
The old ultimate was weak in some ways, but very strong in some others. This one? It's pretty much mediocre all the way down.
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Rebalance nothing, give the old ultimate back. The new ultimate's only redeeming value is the cool special effects.
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United States47024 Posts
What I'm disappointed about is how Riot didn't take the opportunity to make "Radiance" into a spell that blinds people that are facing toward Taric.
Something like:
Taric slams the ground to create a blinding flash of light dealing 150/250/350 (+0.6 ability power) magic damage to nearby enemies and causing them to deal 15/25/35% less damage for 3 seconds. Additionally, enemies facing him when damaged are blinded for 2 seconds.
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If all the ultimate had been was an AD/AP aura + 3 second facing-conditional blind I would have grudgingly accepted it (even without damage). I don't know if I would have been happy (I'm ridiculously biased toward the old ult/playstyle), but I would have at least acknowledged it as being worthwhile.
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United States47024 Posts
The thing is, mass ally steroids are one of the most boring mechanics to have for a spell, because they're not very interactive and they don't create gameplay. You can't stop him from using it because it's instant-cast and not timing-dependent, and you can't really play around it because it applies to all 5 enemies, and lasts long enough and is weak enough that disengaging and waiting out the buff generally isn't worthwhile. So people end up just not doing anything about it, which is super disappointing when all 10 people in the game don't really change how they play with respect to his ultimate.
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adding a conditional blind is so obvious, dunno why they didn't do it. even if they removed all the damage, it would still create more incentive to "go in" as they put it, and would actually be game-changing.
like the way it is now, you actually want to go in less because you don't have all that heal from your ult. a mediocre pbaoe isn't alot of incentive to go in.
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On September 16 2011 07:40 TheYango wrote:
The thing is, mass ally steroids are one of the most boring mechanics to have for a spell, because they're not very interactive and they don't create gameplay. You can't stop him from using it because it's instant-cast and not timing-dependent, and you can't really play around it because it applies to all 5 enemies, and lasts long enough and is weak enough that disengaging and waiting out the buff generally isn't worthwhile. So people end up just not doing anything about it, which is super disappointing when all 10 people in the game don't really change how they play with respect to his ultimate.
So they replaced a mass ally steroid with... a mass ally steroid.
At the very least Taric's old ultimate was interesting for him because he needed to actively consider how long he could afford to use it based on circumstances. As a no/low-CS support he couldn't (and really shouldn't) build enough mana regen to use it indiscriminately.
I'm not going to claim that the old ultimate was a pinnacle of perfect game design, but I will argue that there's very little that the new ultimate does which is an improvement on the old one.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 16 2011 10:35 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 07:40 TheYango wrote:
The thing is, mass ally steroids are one of the most boring mechanics to have for a spell, because they're not very interactive and they don't create gameplay. You can't stop him from using it because it's instant-cast and not timing-dependent, and you can't really play around it because it applies to all 5 enemies, and lasts long enough and is weak enough that disengaging and waiting out the buff generally isn't worthwhile. So people end up just not doing anything about it, which is super disappointing when all 10 people in the game don't really change how they play with respect to his ultimate. So they replaced a mass ally steroid with... a mass ally steroid. At the very least Taric's old ultimate was interesting for him because he needed to actively consider how long he could afford to use it based on circumstances. As a no/low-CS support he couldn't (and really shouldn't) build enough mana regen to use it indiscriminately. I'm not going to claim that the old ultimate was a pinnacle of perfect game design, but I will argue that there's very little that the new ultimate does which is an improvement on the old one.
Right, I agree with you. I was just saying that they chose the most boring possible kind of spell to replace his old ulti.
Incidentally, the old ultimate actually had more gameplay for the other 9 players in the game too, because instead of having a fixed duration, it lasted till Taric turned it off or died, so in theory you could disrupt the buff by killing him.
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honestly, i like the ult change quite a bit. It give taric true threat presence in lane @ lvl 6 that he never used to have, in fact it was often best to not even lvl it at 6, which i dont necessarily have a problem with, but w/e. In terms of taric's mid - lategame, you never even really used ur ult in teamfights because it simply burned mana too fast, it was almost strictly used for taking objectives. I learned this after about 4-5 games with taric, i found that teamfights where my ult was on ended with me not having enough mana to get that clutch stun or heal that allows cait to kill xin, instead of the other way around. 2 and sometimes even 3 stuns, at least 3 heals (making sure to auto a decent bit can increase this number a huge amount), and mybe 2 shatters is very feasible in a teamfight, but you wont get the 2nd round off if you're using the ult the whole time.
I have also always felt that taric not best used as a tank-initiator, and instead better as a counter-initiator, and have always (though this is strictly empirical evidence) had more success in the protection business compared to the initiation business (unless i start out 5-0, in which case i combo every1 for 3/4 hp, huehuehue).
With the new ult setup, you can just camp near ur ranged dps and stun + ult anytime a bruiser gets near giving a huge advantage to the ranged ad vs bruiser fight to the ad, something that is very attractive for a support to have. If you look at all the supports, they are all about giving an advantage to the squishy people vs the melee bruisers. Some accomplish this by keeping those ppl away and kiting them, taric accomplishes this by stunning and murdering them. In that respect, taric now feels more like a bomb-ass sona than anything else, except that his cc is not only more reliable but also off cd more often.
anyways, so ends the taric ramblings of the goldenbear
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United States47024 Posts
On September 18 2011 02:03 barbsq wrote:
honestly, i like the ult change quite a bit. It give taric true threat presence in lane @ lvl 6 that he never used to have, in fact it was often best to not even lvl it at 6, which i dont necessarily have a problem with, but w/e. In terms of taric's mid - lategame, you never even really used ur ult in teamfights because it simply burned mana too fast, it was almost strictly used for taking objectives. I learned this after about 4-5 games with taric, i found that teamfights where my ult was on ended with me not having enough mana to get that clutch stun or heal that allows cait to kill xin, instead of the other way around. 2 and sometimes even 3 stuns, at least 3 heals (making sure to auto a decent bit can increase this number a huge amount), and mybe 2 shatters is very feasible in a teamfight, but you wont get the 2nd round off if you're using the ult the whole time.
Really?
I've always felt Taric ulti to be rather useful in lane, particularly with a partner with strong AD scaling abilities. Flick it on and off for 2-3 seconds during their combo, and given that most AD casters have bonus AD ratios in their combo of about 5 to 6, you get way more damage out of it than another W or E rank would give you, at a very reasonable mana cost, because you're just toggling it quickly.
On September 18 2011 02:03 barbsq wrote:
With the new ult setup, you can just camp near ur ranged dps and stun + ult anytime a bruiser gets near giving a huge advantage to the ranged ad vs bruiser fight to the ad, something that is very attractive for a support to have. If you look at all the supports, they are all about giving an advantage to the squishy people vs the melee bruisers. Some accomplish this by keeping those ppl away and kiting them, taric accomplishes this by stunning and murdering them. In that respect, taric now feels more like a bomb-ass sona than anything else, except that his cc is not only more reliable but also off cd more often.
The issue I have with the Taric changes isn't that they're not good (particularly with the changes to W range, I think the revamped Taric is quite strong), but that the new ultimate is less interesting gameplay-wise than the old one. No matter what role you have, a plain nuke + a mass ally steroid don't create gameplay that your opponents can respond to or are forced to play around.
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I feel like taric from tier 1,5 - tier 2 became crap tier with his new ulti.
the reason is pretty simple , tarric has low dps and cc plus ZERO cc avoidance apart the occasional flash.
With his old ulti and a tank ability build with his ulti he could sustain - at times - the burst , right now he cant do shit he just dies to any descent assist add the heal nerfs and qq hes worthless in meta game just like all healers and pure tanks
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
This is how I interpret the Taric changes this patch. Hopefully for those of you who think he's all worthless and all that it'll give you some idea as to how Taric has changed compared to before.
The old Taric had some interesting counter-intuitive play. For instance, his stun gets better the more you move away from the target. In fights, this means to maximise your stun you want to fire it and then walk away from the fight a bit. That's a little odd. When using you shatter, you also lost the armour aura. That means you don't want to be using it post level 11-ish since the loss of the aura for your team was worse than the gain in armour reduction on the enemies. You also probably only got one, maybe two, heals off in team fights. And R was pretty binary. If you're in a fight or pushing tower, pop it on for a few seconds, otherwise turn it off. That makes for a pretty bad gameplay since there's one skill you never want to use, one skill that requires you to want to move away from the fight, and two skills that you don't think too hard about using. You also suffered the problem of being tanky, but ignorable. This is the main problem for any tank, which is being ignorable.
The new Taric changes try to counteract this in some way. Stun duration is now fixed at 1.5 seconds. This means that you still have the option of moving back for more damage, but if you don't you can still stay in the fight and get a decent stun off.
Since Shatter preserves the armour aura, you can actually feel fine about using it in a fight if you feel it's worth losing your own armour bonus. It's now not an automatic decision to not use it compared to before. It instead encourages you to think and make a decision. Your Ult basically gives yourself a free Baron Buff in terms of AP+AD at level 11 and at max level it's a free Baron buff for your entire team. That's a lot of free gold in stats right there for everyone on your team, not just autoattackers. This also boosts your heal (from the free AP).
This means in fights you have two option. You can hang back and babysit your carry as a tanky guy who can heal and stun and give free AP+AD. But you can also go in someone's face beating them over the head with your 191AD at level 18 which also lowers the CD on your heal to throw more of them around. Because the ult aura doesn't have a continuous mana cost, you can keep that 191 AD threat up for quite a while. Your Shatter reduces armour by 30 which is like a free double Brutaliser. So you can play aggressive which can also make you a legitimate target that isn't so ignorable. Thanks to standardised stun + AP/AD/Armour Aura and doing decent damage, he is now a more legitimate thread.
In all, it's in line with Riots plans to move Support to the option where they can both babysit far back like before but also have the ability to get in someone's face and be a pain. It also fixes the problem of Taric having two skills that were rather counter-intuitive in their usage and two more skills and didn't have a major amount of thinking involved. (I understand R meant you had to keep thinking about your mana costs and how long you left it on, but when one of your top concerns is being an ult aura bot and being ignorable in team fights, that's a pretty bad design for a champion.)
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I've been experimenting with going taric solo top. tried a lot of mastery/rune builds with various item experimenting.
I have concluded that it is quite good. Beat elementz couple days ago against his riven, have never lost a lane, and it absolutely crushes any AD they send up there.
Does ok vs tanky AP sustain if you have the right build with a seperate rune page.
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MoonBear - Taric is not currently viable as a never-in-melee support, and he never has been
Having tried Taric out a bit, on SR and Dominion, I think he's really missing the healing from his ultimate. One of his greatest strengths was his ability to stay in fights as long as he could power his healing, and much of the rest of his design was balanced around that fact. Without it, he's nowhere near as strong as he used to be, because his skillset is reliant on him being in melee combat, right down to his passive.
Taric's ability to fight when ahead is better than it was, but he's got basically zero shot of being useful if he's even a little bit behind past laning now, and he lost almost all of his character-specific ultility to this change. To some extent, he's just a straight-up worse champion at doing what he did before the changes, and it doesn't feel like he's gained even half of that back with the Shatter buff and the Dazzle normalization.
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There used to be a time where you could rely on Radiance to restore a few hundred to a thousand health, and the potential increased burst from the New Radiance's 70 AP + 350 damage really doesn't cut it.
Old Level 18 burst (max range stun): 80 (+.2) + 300 (+.5) = 380 (+.7)
New Level 18 burst (max range stun): 160 (+.4) + 350 (+.6) + 240 (+28) (+.4) = 778 (+1.4)
Don't get me wrong, the 400 (+.7) is a great burst increase. The new Radiance contributes to burst very well, but at the expense of simply removing strength from the character:
- Taric's total self-benefit from Radiance is not as high as it should be for a replacement for a powerful ultimate. You're almost never going to be able to land Radiance's 400 radius AoE on a target without using Dazzle on them. Once you get in range, you'll be able to use Radiance - which doesn't get its own bonus AP.
- Taric has long cooldowns. Even with 40% CDR, you'll only be able to get off 1 Shatter and 1 Dazzle with Radiance's aura - 2 Imbues, though, if you're hitting a champion constantly.. which brings me to my next point:
- Taric can no longer stay in melee without significant itemization to do so. Radiance's healing allowed him to be tanky and to get into fights or take tower/baron hits for his team, differentiating him from other supports. Without Radiance's healing, he can be focused down or out of a fight way easier than some of the supports he's competing for a slot against.
- Taric needed Radiance's heal to stay in combat. On a support's budget, he could build some MR/HP and then get AP, remaining useful until his single-target stun fell out of power. Now he needs to be tanky, and there's only one item which even gives the 3 stats he wants (HP, MR, CDR). He's become more reliant on doing well early game than before, because a Taric that can't get into melee range is about as useful as a support AD Sion (and offers less total healing!)
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Taric's always been compared to Sona, Soraka, Janna and Alistar, and while Alistar ate a pretty huge change to his ultimate, even he's still considered incredibly good on the strength of his other skills. Taric's lost ground compared to all of them, and he's easily the worst of the 5 in Dominion.
So what needs to be changed? In my opinion, Radiance should give Taric the HoT it used to give, even if it means lowering the damage on the nuke. He desperately needs the self-healing to stay relevant in teamfights, the same way Alistar needs his ult to not die when he's in the thick of things.
There are other, possibly better ideas, but given that they just changed Taric's ult, I don't think there's much of a chance of anything more complex being done.
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On September 18 2011 02:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 02:03 barbsq wrote:
honestly, i like the ult change quite a bit. It give taric true threat presence in lane @ lvl 6 that he never used to have, in fact it was often best to not even lvl it at 6, which i dont necessarily have a problem with, but w/e. In terms of taric's mid - lategame, you never even really used ur ult in teamfights because it simply burned mana too fast, it was almost strictly used for taking objectives. I learned this after about 4-5 games with taric, i found that teamfights where my ult was on ended with me not having enough mana to get that clutch stun or heal that allows cait to kill xin, instead of the other way around. 2 and sometimes even 3 stuns, at least 3 heals (making sure to auto a decent bit can increase this number a huge amount), and mybe 2 shatters is very feasible in a teamfight, but you wont get the 2nd round off if you're using the ult the whole time. Really? I've always felt Taric ulti to be rather useful in lane, particularly with a partner with strong AD scaling abilities. Flick it on and off for 2-3 seconds during their combo, and given that most AD casters have bonus AD ratios in their combo of about 5 to 6, you get way more damage out of it than another W or E rank would give you, at a very reasonable mana cost, because you're just toggling it quickly.
There are two skill leveling trains of thought I go by. 1 is my standard 'tryhard tournament' so to speak skilling where I basically get e lvl 1, and then max q and/or w depending on what's going on in the lane. Q if there's a lot of harass and I need to keep up in the sustain battle, W if it's more one-sided to our advantage, which provides a better armor aura for the counter-harass and minion dmg taken in lane.
This is a pretty standard babysitting style of play, and in this situation, the purpose of r would really only be self-heal, since the goal of this style is to provide a long-term bonus that the ranged AD can use as an advantage to win the lane and be able to farm over the course of the laning phase. Furthermore, i'm not entirely sure I agree that his old radiance contributed more dmg than the armor reduction for an extra lvl of w, tho I have 0 math to back this up. This is also typically a mana-intensive lane since there is no down time between using skills, so an extra mana sink is not exactly ideal. 90% of the time, you're either being aggressive and using stun/w, or sitting back and spamming heal to build up hp for the next round of harass.
Now, I dont always have treebeard in my lane to rely on, so the other style that I play is a more 'solo queue' style, where I only have 1 lvl of heal, and maxed e and w first. The goal of this style was to be an abusive, bursty, bully in lane and to have little to no reliance on my lane partner, who I simply assumed wouldn't contribute much. In this case, his old ult contributed little to no boosts to his own dmg, again it simply becomes a costly self-heal.
Disclaimer: just in case it's not totally clear, my rule of thumb in these situations was to get ult either when we wanted to push the tower or take dragon, not to leave it until lvls 16-18. Furthermore, I actually didn't have a problem with not leveling ult at 6, in fact it becomes a fairly interesting sort of very situational sort of gameplay that I was actually ok with (if you can understand what I'm trying to say here  )
On September 18 2011 02:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 02:03 barbsq wrote:
With the new ult setup, you can just camp near ur ranged dps and stun + ult anytime a bruiser gets near giving a huge advantage to the ranged ad vs bruiser fight to the ad, something that is very attractive for a support to have. If you look at all the supports, they are all about giving an advantage to the squishy people vs the melee bruisers. Some accomplish this by keeping those ppl away and kiting them, taric accomplishes this by stunning and murdering them. In that respect, taric now feels more like a bomb-ass sona than anything else, except that his cc is not only more reliable but also off cd more often.
The issue I have with the Taric changes isn't that they're not good (particularly with the changes to W range, I think the revamped Taric is quite strong), but that the new ultimate is less interesting gameplay-wise than the old one. No matter what role you have, a plain nuke + a mass ally steroid don't create gameplay that your opponents can respond to or are forced to play around.
Fair enough, but in terms of strictly gameplay his ult was (to me) simply not satisfying to use. A) it didn't actually provide assists for kills on its own (tho this is more an annoying quirk than 'bad gameplay' so to speak). B) It's impact is about as obvious as sona's Q, thats not to say it wasn't a large one, it simply wasn't an easily perceptible one. The difference to me becomes more taric new ult -> i groundpound, make a huge sound, and my teammates get stronger, hooray!, vs turning on a lightbulb. Naturally gameplay is such a subjective quantity, that we are both 'right' from our own perspectives, but for me, the ult change made it far more 'interesting' to use compared to the old one.
tl:dr, honestly if you dont want to read it, i dont care, because there isn't exactly much content in it
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On September 23 2011 17:30 VictorianPark wrote:
I've been experimenting with going taric solo top. tried a lot of mastery/rune builds with various item experimenting.
I have concluded that it is quite good. Beat elementz couple days ago against his riven, have never lost a lane, and it absolutely crushes any AD they send up there.
Does ok vs tanky AP sustain if you have the right build with a seperate rune page.
i feel the same way, except i literally have no idea how i would build him
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I was considering putting this at the end of my earlier post, but that just seemed silly, anyways...
On September 24 2011 03:55 Niton wrote:
MoonBear - Taric is not currently viable as a never-in-melee support, and he never has been
Having tried Taric out a bit, on SR and Dominion, I think he's really missing the healing from his ultimate. One of his greatest strengths was his ability to stay in fights as long as he could power his healing, and much of the rest of his design was balanced around that fact. Without it, he's nowhere near as strong as he used to be, because his skillset is reliant on him being in melee combat, right down to his passive.
he may be 'melee' so to speak, but he's a counter-initiator, which means he's primarily near the AD, and the only people who get near them are melee, so I don't see the issue.
Taric's ability to fight when ahead is better than it was, but he's got basically zero shot of being useful if he's even a little bit behind past laning now, and he lost almost all of his character-specific ultility to this change. To some extent, he's just a straight-up worse champion at doing what he did before the changes, and it doesn't feel like he's gained even half of that back with the Shatter buff and the Dazzle normalization.
Disagree completely, single target 1.5sec stun, armor aura, aoe armor reduction debuff, and AP/AD steroid aura is useful regardless of farm.
There used to be a time where you could rely on Radiance to restore a few hundred to a thousand health, and the potential increased burst from the New Radiance's 70 AP + 350 damage really doesn't cut it.
Old Level 18 burst (max range stun): 80 (+.2) + 300 (+.5) = 380 (+.7)
New Level 18 burst (max range stun): 160 (+.4) + 350 (+.6) + 240 (+28) (+.4) = 778 (+1.4)
Don't get me wrong, the 400 (+.7) is a great burst increase. The new Radiance contributes to burst very well, but at the expense of simply removing strength from the character:
R was garbage as a self heal during a teamfight, it was simply waaay too much mana to sustain for any reasonable period of time. It was really only used to take dragon or towers, which you should be auto-attacking, which reduces cd on q, making r's self-heal a bit redundant.
- Taric's total self-benefit from Radiance is not as high as it should be for a replacement for a powerful ultimate. You're almost never going to be able to land Radiance's 400 radius AoE on a target without using Dazzle on them. Once you get in range, you'll be able to use Radiance - which doesn't get its own bonus AP.
nope, R's ap bonus actually does apply to the dmg, says so here: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Taric#Radiance, read the notes below the abilities
not to mention taric's mid-lategame power has never been because he did dmg (though him having dmg certainly adds to it)
- Taric has long cooldowns. Even with 40% CDR, you'll only be able to get off 1 Shatter and 1 Dazzle with Radiance's aura - 2 Imbues, though, if you're hitting a champion constantly.. which brings me to my next point:
I think you overestimate his CD's a little, that may be true for small skirmishes, but large-scale 5v5's tend to be longer than what I think you estimate. In any case, you're typically only interested in stopping 1 person anyways, keeping their melee bruiser away from your carries, so again I don't really see the problem
- Taric can no longer stay in melee without significant itemization to do so. Radiance's healing allowed him to be tanky and to get into fights or take tower/baron hits for his team, differentiating him from other supports. Without Radiance's healing, he can be focused down or out of a fight way easier than some of the supports he's competing for a slot against.
muhhhh.. again radiance's heal/mana cost was kinda shit, sure you can tank more stuff by just pressing r, but then u cant really do anything else. In any case, again if you're in range of the enemy carries and taking dmg from them, then I see that as a problem, since i'm much more interested in protecting than assaulting, but w/e guess u can chalk that up to 'playstyle' or whatever
- Taric needed Radiance's heal to stay in combat. On a support's budget, he could build some MR/HP and then get AP, remaining useful until his single-target stun fell out of power. Now he needs to be tanky, and there's only one item which even gives the 3 stats he wants (HP, MR, CDR). He's become more reliant on doing well early game than before, because a Taric that can't get into melee range is about as useful as a support AD Sion (and offers less total healing!)
I really hope you're not referring to svisage, kus i hated that item on him. Anyways, aegis is still great on taric, not to mention that a single-target stun never really 'falls out of power'. I think that a lot of these problems are again solved by going for a more protective, counter initiating role than being an aggressor
Taric's always been compared to Sona, Soraka, Janna and Alistar, and while Alistar ate a pretty huge change to his ultimate, even he's still considered incredibly good on the strength of his other skills. Taric's lost ground compared to all of them, and he's easily the worst of the 5 in Dominion.
Taric's changes significantly upped his power level, i don't see how removing a redundant self-heal source made him shit. Also I would imagine taric would actually be much better in a pseudocarry role in dominion, and on a similar thread, i think it will take a much longer time to figure out champion's power levels in dominion than the 2 hours it's been up.
So what needs to be changed? In my opinion, Radiance should give Taric the HoT it used to give, even if it means lowering the damage on the nuke. He desperately needs the self-healing to stay relevant in teamfights, the same way Alistar needs his ult to not die when he's in the thick of things.
i kinda covered this earlier, but I have had the most success with taric as a counter-initiator, not as an initiator. You could say a lot of these things about sona, but she's played in a very similar way. Cow, on the other hand... well cow actually does fucking everything, but w/e
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On September 24 2011 05:32 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +- Taric's total self-benefit from Radiance is not as high as it should be for a replacement for a powerful ultimate. You're almost never going to be able to land Radiance's 400 radius AoE on a target without using Dazzle on them. Once you get in range, you'll be able to use Radiance - which doesn't get its own bonus AP. nope, R's ap bonus actually does apply to the dmg, says so here: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Taric#Radiance, read the notes below the abilities
I just tested this in-game, Radiance does not get a boost from the +AP it gives you. At level 6 with no AP it deals 150 damage to 0 MR targets.
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On September 24 2011 05:32 barbsq wrote:
he may be 'melee' so to speak, but he's a counter-initiator, which means he's primarily near the AD, and the only people who get near them are melee, so I don't see the issue.
He's not ALWAYS a counter-initiator. Until somewhere between 30 and 40 minutes, depending on the game, Taric's capable of picking people off with his stun.
Disagree completely, single target 1.5sec stun, armor aura, aoe armor reduction debuff, and AP/AD steroid aura is useful regardless of farm.
The stun and a few seconds of aura are all Taric's going to be able to do for you in a losing game. Janna and Alistar do a way better job of retaining presence in a losing game, and they're also better counter-initiators, with fewer hoops to jump through.
R was garbage as a self heal during a teamfight, it was simply waaay too much mana to sustain for any reasonable period of time. It was really only used to take dragon or towers, which you should be auto-attacking, which reduces cd on q, making r's self-heal a bit redundant.
There was a 900g option that people were slow to latch on to that gave Taric as much mana as he could practically use, that doubled as an item which gave him his weakest defensive stat. Chalice was fucking amazing on old Taric.
nope, R's ap bonus actually does apply to the dmg, says so here: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Taric#Radiance, read the notes below the abilities not to mention taric's mid-lategame power has never been because he did dmg (though him having dmg certainly adds to it)
See crate's post. Taric is not a long game champion, his chance to win your team the game decreases for every second the game goes on once you get out of laning phase because he didn't (and still doesn't) have a game-changing presence in a large engage.
I think you overestimate his CD's a little, that may be true for small skirmishes, but large-scale 5v5's tend to be longer than what I think you estimate. In any case, you're typically only interested in stopping 1 person anyways, keeping their melee bruiser away from your carries, so again I don't really see the problem
I'm talking specifically about what you can get off with Radiance on. A 5v5 is usually between 15-20 seconds, but for half of that you no longer have his ult's buff. As far as defending carries goes, later in the game Dazzle starts to lose effectiveness pretty quickly because of BVeil + other CC immunity options, as well as the enemy bruisers being more tanky.
muhhhh.. again radiance's heal/mana cost was kinda shit, sure you can tank more stuff by just pressing r, but then u cant really do anything else. In any case, again if you're in range of the enemy carries and taking dmg from them, then I see that as a problem, since i'm much more interested in protecting than assaulting, but w/e guess u can chalk that up to 'playstyle' or whatever
Radiance + Chalice was an incredibly powerful underexplored combination that allowed Taric to run his ult for 10 or so seconds on a full mana bar and still have enough to use his other abilities for another half a minute.
I really hope you're not referring to svisage, kus i hated that item on him. Anyways, aegis is still great on taric, not to mention that a single-target stun never really 'falls out of power'. I think that a lot of these problems are again solved by going for a more protective, counter initiating role than being an aggressor
I was, but even though it's not very good, it IS the only option that offers all 3. There's not much that offers 2 of the 3 without armor, either - Aegis is great because of the aura, but the only other items that fit the criteria are Soul Shroud (HP/CDR) and Banshee's Veil (HP/MR).
Taric's changes significantly upped his power level, i don't see how removing a redundant self-heal source made him shit. Also I would imagine taric would actually be much better in a pseudocarry role in dominion, and on a similar thread, i think it will take a much longer time to figure out champion's power levels in dominion than the 2 hours it's been up.
I don't really agree with that - his healing is a LOT weaker than it is before, and he no longer has the same self-healing capabilities. I think if he's any better, it's a small amount and it changed the way he plays a lot.
i kinda covered this earlier, but I have had the most success with taric as a counter-initiator, not as an initiator. You could say a lot of these things about sona, but she's played in a very similar way. Cow, on the other hand... well cow actually does fucking everything, but w/e
Janna's also a better counter-initiator than Taric. Soraka's really the only one i'd consider 'worse' at counter-initiation, and her skillset is entirely dissimilar to the others' now. I think right now, i'd rank the supports like this:
Alistar
Sona
(Gangplank)
Janna
Soraka
Taric
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hey guys, I have been experiencing support taric with rally & ghost. In some way this is pretty good (I don't know, maybe I am in elo hell). Our team kept winning team fights and tt was literally one sided. I am just throwing this out there.
DISCUSS!!
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On September 30 2011 05:41 CompX wrote:
hey guys, I have been experiencing support taric with rally & ghost. In some way this is pretty good (I don't know, maybe I am in elo hell). Our team kept winning team fights and tt was literally one sided. I am just throwing this out there.
DISCUSS!!
I can understand where you are going with that, but once you get higher you'll find CV/Flash is the best (read:ONLY) way to go.
Cv is obvious for support, and imo Taric should ONLY be played as a support hero. His Cooldowns just don't cut it to be an AP champ, it's just not worth it. You'll need CV to find where the jungle is, use to help your over extending top lane know he has a few more seconds to farm, etc etc. It's just a MUST.
Flash is the other SS that is a must, Flashing in and out of battles to either live, or get a nice stun off really makes the difference. Ghost can be nice when chasing, but it doesn't offer the same utility of getting a clutch stun off to ace their team, or pull off a stun in bot lane from the bushes for 1st blood.
I really see the thought you put into Rally, I mean, you're support, and you want to make your carries do more damage, etc etc. Back to higher ELO play, they will never engage you (Or fake engage) When you have planted the banner. It's too easy to be countered, and doesn't really fit will in my mind to replace Flash or CV.
Back to CV, where your team should have it (Only 1 player with CV, the Cooldown on it is short enough) If you don't have it, you chance of getting caught off guard is highly increased. Just play around with it, learn when to use it. You'll love it.
Just my 2 cents about that.
TL;DR: Flash imba CV as support ALWAYS.
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On September 30 2011 05:41 CompX wrote:
hey guys, I have been experiencing support taric with rally & ghost. In some way this is pretty good (I don't know, maybe I am in elo hell). Our team kept winning team fights and tt was literally one sided. I am just throwing this out there.
DISCUSS!!
Rally is pretty cool considering how Taric can be built like an aurabot with his ulti and Shatter. The only problem with Rally is that CV is simply too strong to be ignored. You need a CV on your team and it's usually up to the support to take it 'cause AD carries (and sometimes bruisers) need exhaust to counter bruisers and assassins that will dive them+better damage output, AP carries (and sometimes bruisers) take ignite for maximum burst, teleport can be taken by top lane (sometimes mid) for more map control, and smite is a necessity on junglers. Flash/Ghost on everyone 'cause everyone needs an escape/positioning spell.
Basically, this means supports will pretty much always have to go CV/Flash. Neither one is worth giving up for Rally no matter how good it is.
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So.. AP ratio buffs, again. Maybe Taric won't be complete garbage now (or maybe he can solo lane with his sustain!). Taric's been in a really bad place ever since the heal changes because he got nothing to make up for it, and it's probably going to take more than some damage buffs to bring him up to Alistar's level.
Also, Heal is good now. Clarity might also be good now, but I really doubt it.
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The new AP ratios don't really accomplish anything. If they want Taric to run in and do massive AoE damage he needs buffs to his survivability first and foremost. He can't afford to run into the fray because 1) it's suicide if he doesn't build tanky (which means no AP) and 2) it's opening up his carry to attack. As it stands he's going to blow Radiance the moment the team fight starts wherever he is, and he's going to blow Shatter on whoever first assaults his carry.
Damage on supports isn't terribly important outside of the laning phase. Alistar isn't a monster support because of his damage mid/late-game, but because of his initiation and peeling ability.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 29 2011 13:44 Niton wrote:
Also, Heal is good now. Clarity might also be good now, but I really doubt it.
I think anyone taking Heal over CV on a support is out of their minds, and Flash is too good on Taric. Heal is good to fit onto solo laners over Ignite/Exhaust/TP, but CV is still far too game-changing.
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It's not about massive AoE damage, it's about he's got a single target non-skillshot stun and an AoE followup nuke with massive AP ratios. I'm so happy solo mid Taric is back!
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I suppose with this buff Taric may be build as a pseudo support AP carry sorta like Zilean, but still not likely to be great on him. I'm waiting for them to rework his passive though. I think in terms of relative strength, Taric is in a good position, but his passive is a pretty lame way of fixing early game mana issues and they could do something a lot more interesting.
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On November 29 2011 17:44 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 13:44 Niton wrote:
Also, Heal is good now. Clarity might also be good now, but I really doubt it. I think anyone taking Heal over CV on a support is out of their minds, and Flash is too good on Taric. Heal is good to fit onto solo laners over Ignite/Exhaust/TP, but CV is still far too game-changing.
Even at the very top level, where your CV is going to give you and your teammates useful information that they'll use 100% of the time, a lot of players have opinions that place CV from OK to just bad. When you're not at that top level, and your team isn't even going to pay attention to what you've CVed, it doesn't even feel like a contest anymore.
Heal is really, really good now.
e: Also, Utility is a pretty bad tree now, and there's a solid argument for 0/21/9 being better for supports because of the weakness of points spent.
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I've been playing 0/22/8 on Taric since Fizz patch, with Heal/CV. Maybe I could do without CV, but I feel like Flash is a crutch on Taric. Sure, you can escape some ganks and maybe secure a kill with Flash + Dazzle, but with Heal and defensive masteries Taric is pretty beefy early game against common comps with AD-based lane + jungler, and I usually save myself or my carry at least once or twice with Heal each game in lane let alone with the substantial heal during team fights. He's obviously not as good as Sona or Soraka against AP lanes or Junglers, or against really aggressive lanes because his ability to harass and heal is lower than those two, but that's a given and Flash wouldn't help with that at all.
Maybe its just me, or the fact that I play mostly solo-queue normals, but I feel like I have the most success on Taric out of all the supports (and I play supports a lot). I like playing Sona and Janna but feel so... squishy... when I do. I'll have to experiment more with full Defensive masteries on those two as well, as the cooldown reduction in Def is better once you hit level 14 and the extra survivability may make up for the reduced gold/XP/regen/summoner spell CDR.
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"Support Sion and Support Taric are at the same level."
Discuss.
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Doesn't make any sense since taric has a heal and a useful ultimate and more burst damage and armour aura and armour debuff.
Also, taric is one of the weaker supports at the moment, so support sion is really garbage.
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Meh - a common concern in the earlier posts was that taric didn't have enough personal sustain in team fights. Sion support has with his ult which also heals others while providing a similar stun.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2011 06:48 Vernay wrote:
Meh - a common concern in the earlier posts was that taric didn't have enough personal sustain in team fights. Sion support has with his ult which also heals others while providing a similar stun.
Sion also doesn't have passive armor, and his stun has 75 less range than Taric's.
Your lifesteal is also not worth a lot when you have no AD.
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On December 01 2011 06:21 Vernay wrote:
"Support Sion and Support Taric are at the same level."
Discuss.
No.
Go post this in General Discussion; you'll have a better time there.
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Personal sustain? Why do you need that? Don't listen to phreak, taric is NOT an important target in teamfights the only reason you'd be getting hit is if you're in a position where you're basically a free kill.
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On December 01 2011 07:07 Slayer91 wrote:
Personal sustain? Why do you need that? Don't listen to phreak, taric is NOT an important target in teamfights the only reason you'd be getting hit is if you're in a position where you're basically a free kill.
This is only something that has recently become wrong. Back when Radiance was a gigantic fucking Hp5 buff (with 1:1 AP scaling!), one of your jobs as Taric was to take as much damage as possible without dying so that you could heal up to full with Radiance and your (still good Q).
Now Taric's Q is the worst of the 4 support heals because he doesn't want to take damage, and his ultimate is somehow both more boring and not really any better than the previous incarnation.
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Hehe - i think i came over wrong - earlier in this post people where saying that one of the problems with the ultimate changes was that it took away a large part of his own self healing.
the way that the majority of the posts were worded in summary they said the following:
"1/2 imbues a fight, a few stuns, can be one dropped, very little self healing"
Now - for the record - i love taric, i have around 200 games played with him, and i build him as a pure support in bottom lane.
But - i always thought that if your playstyle is such that you find taric's lack of continual self healing a major issue - then you should consider support sion.
Apologies for not making myself clear in the first post.
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Okay, bringing this whole quote train here before it derails GenDisc any worse. If you have no idea what's going on, read the first chain:
On February 08 2012 03:17 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 03:14 Niton wrote:On February 08 2012 03:09 zulu_nation8 wrote:On February 08 2012 03:06 Niton wrote:On February 08 2012 03:04 zulu_nation8 wrote:
there's no way whatsoever taric counters sona Sona's got no hard CC pre-6, is stronger if she ignores her heal (which heals for 40 at rank 1), and is as squishy as Soraka. Sona and Soraka are way easier to kill-lane than other supports because of their squishiness and lack of hard CC, and Taric has one of the best burst combos available to a support in lane. On February 08 2012 03:06 Requizen wrote:
Didn't they try that once? His remake didn't go so well. Honestly, I like playing Taric, but he's just so meh past the laning phase, and even there he's not super dominant. That's what I mean - his remake significantly lowered the power of 2 abilities and left the other 2 in a neutral state. The hard cc doesnt matter when sona has infinitely more burst. With heal, it should literally be impossible for the enemy duo to kill sona without getting 2 for 1ed. Taric has (or at least, had) equivalent burst to Sona back before they gutted him, especially with the aid of an AD carry like MF, Sivir or Graves. He still kind of does, because Taric/MF and Taric/Sivir are still things. If he were to get returned to a place where his Q, W and R weren't all shitty versions of good abilities, he'd be fine competing with Sona. Unless the Sona mispositions, taric has to walk up to sona or anyone to stun, and in that time he can get E chorded, Q chorded, E and Q chorded, ulted, and kited to death. The burst is not the same realistically even if the total damage do match.
E+Q chord is probably the best defense against Taric pre-6, which is less damage than him (but allows you to try and kite). Post-6 it's a different matter, but again, that comes down to Taric's ult being a shitty version of Sona's Q instead of an ult. His damage really is comparable if you can get on to a target, it's just slightly too hard (and not rewarding enough) to do so right now.
On February 08 2012 03:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 03:06 Niton wrote:
That's what I mean - his remake significantly lowered the power of 2 abilities and left the other 2 in a neutral state. To be fair, I'd say that the buff to Shatter was at least a little better than a "neutral state".
Eh.. kind of. Shatter's significantly better out of lane than it was before, both because of the aura range increase and because that passive doesn't go away, but it lost 40~60 damage off of its base, which is really significant for kill-laning. Overall, it is a bit stronger, but the new kit made him so much weaker out of lane that losing some of his lane dominance was a big hit.
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Does anyone know what Masteries runs on his pinkman? I've been running a 0/9/21 but am just curious.
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On February 18 2012 21:49 Skithiryx wrote:
Does anyone know what Masteries runs on his pinkman? I've been running a 0/9/21 but am just curious.
I know Nhat Nguyen runs 0/15/15 for initiator and the extra GP10. Considering how in lane, he'll run up to the AD shatter his fabulous aura and how he's more likely to be in the middle of a teamfight than Soraka or Sona, I'd consider running 0/21/9, though.
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Taric is really good and can be annoying if u control your mana well. Nice guide!
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Question for mathcrafters. Is it worth more to go 21/0/9 ad, 21/0/9 ap or 0/21/9 tanky for jungle? What could i benefit the most from? Seems like without wriggles i don't clear fast enough, but my ganks with red are strong as fuck.
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I think you'd want to go AD/AS Taric, since his AP scaling isn't really that great compared to the benefit you'd get earlygame. Doing something like that, a 9/12/9 build like this one would give you the largest early game advantage - and that's all that really matters, because your lategame is going to be suspect regardless of what masteries you pick.
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The points in utility seems dumb. Why would i start with extra gold and get duration on my buffs? I get mana from my passive anyways. But yeah i tried out ap and it sucks in jungle, gonna stick to ad/as and figure out some more. He seems dumb with his Q in rank 5 and a wriggles. No AD can trade hits with you in early game..
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guys, you know a good pro player that uses Taric as champion? wanna watch some VODS.
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he was used a lot at ipl4
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Right now Taric is surging in popularity and thats because people forgot about him being a legit early game support. Now that the metagame is so early game eccentric, i figured i should pick up taric since Alistar and Blitz are always banned.
My first game as taric went really well but besides that, every game I seem to not understand how to play him properly. I never synergize with my AD bot. What should my playstyle be like and should i watch someone play taric to learn?
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Not really surging considering he's like the 2nd -3rd most played champ for a couple months.
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If the enemy ADC extends closely, like when last hitting ranged minions, move in range of stun and try to get your AD to move up too. If he doesn't back off and give up the CS, EW (ERW if you're level6+) and try to kill him.
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Taric is a good support sure, but I think Taric is a really fun pick to dick around as a jungler or even a top against more passive tops. I was jungling Taric earlier and picked up triple gp10s on taric and got a DFG and Triforce at ~30 minutes and was able to one-shot the enemy's Ezreal. Probably not ever practical outside of normals but whatever.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/90tzg.jpg)
Support Taric:
Armour or Mpen reds, Health or health/lvl or gp10 yellos, MR/lvl blues, Gp10/health quints
0/9/21, armour n health in defence, MONEY in utility
E,Q,W,W,W,R, then R>W>Q>E
Faerie charm + (3wards 2hpots 1mpot if against blitz/leona/agressive) or (4wards 1hpot against passive like soraka)
Philo
Boots 1
HoG
Boots 2 (Mercs or Tabi, usually mercs)
Aegis
Shurellias
If you get to this point, build aura items that help most of your team (Wota/Abyssal for AP heavy teams, Starks for AD)
Stun the opponents if they come close, whack them a few times, play agressive unless you are against leona/blitz. Midgame peel for your ADC/Mid, keep others alive, you aren't extremely tanky yet.
Lategame do whatever the hell you want, you are taric and tanky as fuck and can stun anyone who gets in your way.
Jungle Taric
Aspeed reds, armour seals, MR/lvl or Cdr glyphs, AD or Aspeed quints
0/21/9 Tanky jungle stuff and then free choice in util. Get dat buff duration.
W,Q,W,E,W,R, then R>W>Q>E
Boots+pots
Philo
Boots 2 (Mercs or tabi)
HoG
Wits end (Tell the support to get the aegis)
Shurellias
Gank at 4 with your stun and armour reduction (Good with AD tops/bot lane).
Clear is slow at first, speeds up when you level W.
Midgame initate and CC/debuff the opponent carries as much as you can
Lategame see support taric.
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For season 3, how are people building taric (masteries, runes, items).
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armor/armor/mr/gold
1/13/16
ruby sightstone>aegis>situational. so many items to build now. actually even aegis is situational lol.
taric + runic bulwark + locket = team so tank!!!
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I always feel that Taric needs a nerf =\. He seems way too strong right now.
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What do you mean? Taric's one of the least influential supports when the game enters the teamfighting stage. The changes to ArPen doesn't even change anything for his W since it's armor reduc.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/xic40.jpg)
