EPT[Champion] Yorick - Page 11
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pschiu
Singapore410 Posts
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
a) 75% of top lanes are AD b) If you wanted damage with some survivability you could make other items that you wouldn't need to sell later on (aka Phage, Atmas, etc) c) If you just want damage, manamune earlier? Seems REALLY situational. I'd probably never go for it unless I was facing the best Cho in the world top and if they had a Karthus mid I guess. | ||
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arthur
United Kingdom488 Posts
On October 16 2011 21:32 pschiu wrote: I've been trying out Yorick recently and after experimenting with various builds, I'm gradually moving towards something like this: tear, boots, hexdrinker (which gives early mr and dmg allowing for scrappy fights with the enemy ap champs if necessary), then work towards atmogs, possibly upgrading tear to manamune somewhere along the way if more dmg is required. 6th item is situational (usually frozen heart / fon / banshees / ga) and I might also sell hexdrinker late game for another one. I'm wondering why no guide ever suggests the early-mid hexdrinker, although some might suggest spirit visage at around that time. Both give mr, but hex gives dmg whereas sv gives health which we won't need if we're working on warmogs soon after. If you need Damage rush Manamune. If you need Magic resists, getting Merc treads + Spirit visage before finishing Manamune is a lot better than getting Hexdrinker. The extra healing/regen you get from Spirit Visage will be more than the sheild from Hexdrinker. The HP benefits you and your ghouls. The cooldowns are just brilliant on Yorick. SPAM SPAM SPAM! | ||
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pschiu
Singapore410 Posts
The conundrum I usually face is when I have a tear and a mercs. At this point if I rush atmogs I feel very weak and can't participate well in any of those early-mid skirmishes. Sometimes afk-farm doesn't cut it when you need to go help defend mid-push or help in a dragon fight. So I feel like I want some dmg and mr as most early fights involve higher dmg from ap champs. If I complete manamune and get spirit visage though, that takes about 2.6k compared to a hexdrinker at 1.8k gold. Psychologically if I intend to get atmogs I always feel like I have to rush rush rush it and that extra 800 gold feels alot. But I'll try both more and see which one feels better. | ||
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pschiu
Singapore410 Posts
On October 16 2011 21:46 Zdrastochye wrote: Why would you make hexdrinker part of the core when a) 75% of top lanes are AD b) If you wanted damage with some survivability you could make other items that you wouldn't need to sell later on (aka Phage, Atmas, etc) c) If you just want damage, manamune earlier? Seems REALLY situational. I'd probably never go for it unless I was facing the best Cho in the world top and if they had a Karthus mid I guess. To clarify, my problem is often not facing up to my lane opponent. In my (low elo) games, the laning phase often breaks down quite fast and we get alot of early-mid scrappy fights. I've been experimenting alot with early phage though. But I'm not sure what it would build into later. A frozen mallet, to replace warmogs? That seems to be ok actually. Or a 6th-item triforce? Triforce seems to really "grease the joints" so to speak, but atm I'm not so sure I'd want to get it over things like fon/frozen heart. The reason why I thought of hexdrinker was mainly that it gave me exactly what I felt I needed at a rather cheap price. But maybe I'm trying to solve the wrong problem. | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On October 16 2011 22:19 pschiu wrote: To clarify, my problem is often not facing up to my lane opponent. In my (low elo) games, the laning phase often breaks down quite fast and we get alot of early-mid scrappy fights. I've been experimenting alot with early phage though. But I'm not sure what it would build into later. A frozen mallet, to replace warmogs? That seems to be ok actually. Or a 6th-item triforce? Triforce seems to really "grease the joints" so to speak, but atm I'm not so sure I'd want to get it over things like fon/frozen heart. The reason why I thought of hexdrinker was mainly that it gave me exactly what I felt I needed at a rather cheap price. But maybe I'm trying to solve the wrong problem. Spirit Visage is still superior to Hexdrinker on Yorick when it comes to cheap magic-survivability and damage increase. The CDR you get from Spirit Visage increases your damage by more than the little bit of AD that is on Hexdrinker, and scales much better as the game goes later. | ||
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Yttrasil
Sweden651 Posts
My question though is, how do I use the ultimate effectively? If we are 2 people bot, do I use it on my mate directly, after the mate took some damage? Or do I rush in kinda, tank a bit then ulti myself so that I revive when I die or still use it on my mate that does the damage even though the mate won't die? Lategame do you use it on your carry directly or only if the person is about to die and if not on another lets say ap mid champion that is about to die? (Also I might be a total noob, but is it possible to steer the ultied 2nd person (myself or the other) to go tank, attack or such while I run away or is it just that it does what I do? Since I want the 2nd myself to attack while I run away or stay in the back casting spells or such or the teammate one to do that) I'd love to get some hints just how to manage it overall for most effective results as it is pretty costly to try out ingame if you fail as I have many many times if anyone could ellaborate on the whole Yorick ulti I'd love to hear it! | ||
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eagle
United States693 Posts
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Yttrasil
Sweden651 Posts
On November 02 2011 12:50 eagle wrote: manamune boots 1 warmog atma all day every day then u win the game Don't know if this was a response to my question or not but it felt strange someone would answer like that just after I brought the thread up. However, if it was a response I have a very hard time getting those items as being support bot where I struggle to even afford a Frozen Heart far into the game :D So any help, anyone? | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
If you're support Yorick you'd never ult yourself. You'd ult someone who is actually a threat and tell the ghost to go to down on whoever is a good focus target. Ideally you want to ult your biggest damage dealer (whether melee or ranged) and have them die right before the ghost duration ends, as that gives the full effect, but that's merely the ideal. Depending on your comp I think ulting both a significant tanky DPS threat that's a good chaser with CC (so they can go suicidal) and ulting your ranged DPS (so they do nearly double damage) are good options, but ulting yourself or someone on your team who is behind in farm is merely gimping the ulti because it has % scaling. And if you try to Zilean save someone who's out of position my experience is that your team can't (or just doesn't) capitalize on their resurrection so the enemy team just runs away with a free kill.. | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On November 02 2011 12:31 Yttrasil wrote: Heya, so I've been playing some Yorick support bot lately as I heard it was really good when people ban/pick my main or I'm lastpick. It's pretty darned amazing and working really well at 1.7k elo going pendant ward and having your mate go boots pots. Sick sick deny and sustain, go tear then boots then manamune or such into full support role/tankyish with a sick sick endgame ulti and early deny gank ulti, need to experiment with gold/5 though. Anyhow the basic point is that I suck and never played support ever before and it's working pretty darned amazing. Yorick is one of those champs that's kinda good anywhere, in any lane. If you play him more and like him, take him solo top or be an asshole and take him mid if you have an AP on your team that can handle solo top. Most AP mids can't handle Yorick with an MRes page in the slightest and you force them to build defensively or get zoned / killed since they're so much squishier then the guys top and that cripples them for the mid and late game. Be prepared to lane switch with your top if they do as well. My question though is, how do I use the ultimate effectively? If we are 2 people bot, do I use it on my mate directly, after the mate took some damage? Or do I rush in kinda, tank a bit then ulti myself so that I revive when I die or still use it on my mate that does the damage even though the mate won't die? Lategame do you use it on your carry directly or only if the person is about to die and if not on another lets say ap mid champion that is about to die? There are two ways to use your ultimate effectively in a support role, and I think the proper use of it depends as much on your team as it does on your opponents team. Half assed Zilean Ult: Using it this way you hold off on the ult until your teammate is about to die then ult them so they resurrect and can keep fighting. It's usually best to do this when your ad carry derps and gets caught out of position but your team is set up to engage the fight (so the ult isn't wasted) or on an AP carry to let them get another rotation or two off on their cooldowns (this is often overlooked as a viable use of the ult, especially when your ap carry got fed). "Standard" ulting: This is the more standard way of using the ult which is to ult the highest damage AD you have as soon as the fight is committed and let them roll over everything with effectively two lives. Normally this works really well as tanky (solo top) yorick because they can't really kill you so they're stuck killing the AD twice. However, in the significantly squishier support role, it is much easier to just focus you down as soon as you cast your ult and then your ult poofs away. In a support role, I would advise doing it this way as often as possible and trying to keep yourself as safe as possible to prevent this from happening. (Also I might be a total noob, but is it possible to steer the ultied 2nd person (myself or the other) to go tank, attack or such while I run away or is it just that it does what I do? Since I want the 2nd myself to attack while I run away or stay in the back casting spells or such or the teammate one to do that) Yes you can control the ghost with the pet control commands as it registers as a pet just like tibbers and mordekaiser's ghost. Do remember there is a max range on it but so you can't send it too far away but it is your job to properly control it until the ulted target dies and control transfers to them. Hope this helps! | ||
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Yttrasil
Sweden651 Posts
What are your opinions on gp/5, I personally think it's almost a waste of money early on as it doesn't really fit any build and the damage and sustainability you gain by completing e.g. manamune alot earlier will actually mean you gain more gold in the long run by having better fights and such. From a nessesarry tear to manamune is not too far and well worth the money and a GP/5 after tear will take too long for it to turn into a gold benefit. Btw, I might be an idiot but if I understood it correctly your ulti if you use it on someone else will die as soon as you die but when used on yourself you will reincarnate instead? | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On November 03 2011 10:34 Yttrasil wrote: Both of you above, I loved that input and put together they were pretty much the perfect answer, pet control will help alot haha. Do you guys think that we will see more support Yorick in the future or that it's just a gimmick? I cannot personally imagine a more useful support lategame.. What are your opinions on gp/5, I personally think it's almost a waste of money early on as it doesn't really fit any build and the damage and sustainability you gain by completing e.g. manamune alot earlier will actually mean you gain more gold in the long run by having better fights and such. From a nessesarry tear to manamune is not too far and well worth the money and a GP/5 after tear will take too long for it to turn into a gold benefit. Btw, I might be an idiot but if I understood it correctly your ulti if you use it on someone else will die as soon as you die but when used on yourself you will reincarnate instead? Running (farmless) support I would recommend getting at minimum HoG to help pay the ward bills and make you not die immediately in teamfights (so your ult is useful). However, I honestly believe support Yorick is a gimmick and should only serve as a fall back when zilean is banned. Late game he does little that zilean doesn't do (in terms of supporting) and is on a longer cooldown. IMO, Yorick is much better when put in a different lane instead of supporting as his damage and tankyness is considerable as is his pushing power when farmed and there are much better in-lane supports while your "late game support" abilities are actually enhanced when farmed because now not only can you ult (i.e. support) the scariest member of your team but you can also soak up an unholy (bad pun right there) amount of damage while contributing a respectable amount of damage yourself. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On November 18 2011 22:19 Sponkz wrote: I know defensive masteries aren't that cost effective, but damn 9/21/0 is so good on him. I tried out some weird shit, getting havoc, meditation and veteran scars, with ghost/tp however i seem to like ghost+cleanse alot more. I haven't had too much time to test this out since the mastery change (overloaded class schedule) but I still believe that 9/21/0 is still the core set-up for him. It's not as strong in it's purest form (%mpen, designed to help prevent opponent from itemizing to counter your sustain) but you do have the opportunity to get %arpen instead now which makes your sustain weaker against people who know to just kill your ghouls but you deal more damage yourself in teamfights since the majority of your damage is physical. 0/21/9 is something to consider in tougher matchups to get the extra mana and mana regeneration for the laning phase. | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
carry games ezpz np | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
Does Yorick have any really bad match ups? I have been playing him for a while, but I haven't met anyone that really put the hurt on me. Nasus gets bad later on, when his Q cd is low enough so that he can simply stack on your ghouls. But you can still boss him around till he gets levels/items. (keep in mind that I am fairly low elo[11xx], so my opponents could just have played badly.) Though I haven't played vs Rumble, Renekton and Fizz so far... how are their match ups vs Yorick? I also can see Ryze being kinda bad for Yori... anyone else I should be wary of? | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On November 21 2011 16:49 disformation wrote: I was thinking of when I should pick yorick and when I should pick another top laner... basically I came to the conclusion that I should always pick him, if he is not banned... Does Yorick have any really bad match ups? I have been playing him for a while, but I haven't met anyone that really put the hurt on me. Nasus gets bad later on, when his Q cd is low enough so that he can simply stack on your ghouls. But you can still boss him around till he gets levels/items. (keep in mind that I am fairly low elo[11xx], so my opponents could just have played badly.) Though I haven't played vs Rumble, Renekton and Fizz so far... how are their match ups vs Yorick? I also can see Ryze being kinda bad for Yori... anyone else I should be wary of? Basically anyone who gets benefit from killing the ghouls or having the ghouls die around them. You mentioned Nasus since he can just Q your ghouls to stop your harass and get bonus damage on it. Trundle can outlast Yorick with his passive, since it gives him heals every time an enemy dies near him. Tryndamere could probably do well since he could get free hits on the ghouls for more Fury. I haven't laned against one but I'm told that Jarvan is a really good matchup against Yorick. But most champions you can just harass at will since Tear of the Goddess/Manamune will give you infinite mana and sustain. :3 | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On November 21 2011 16:57 Ferrose wrote: Basically anyone who gets benefit from killing the ghouls or having the ghouls die around them. You mentioned Nasus since he can just Q your ghouls to stop your harass and get bonus damage on it. Trundle can outlast Yorick with his passive, since it gives him heals every time an enemy dies near him. Tryndamere could probably do well since he could get free hits on the ghouls for more Fury. I haven't laned against one but I'm told that Jarvan is a really good matchup against Yorick. But most champions you can just harass at will since Tear of the Goddess/Manamune will give you infinite mana and sustain. :3 Played Trundle top vs a Yorick yesterday and had quite some problems. Your passive gives you ~20hp once a ghoul dies. But you have to go in to lasthit, so Yorick can harass you quite well, while you can't properly go in to apply your Q on him. But I used scaling MR instead of Flat MR, so his E and W hit me quite hard for a long time. Quite possible that I misplayed that match up, haven't played Trundle in quite a while. And yeah, Yorick is a beast once you have tear. I don't have that much trouble before I get tear either and I don't run mana reg runes or masteries. | ||
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Havefa1th
United States245 Posts
I'd put Yorick at about even with Nasus, about even/maybe a bit lower than Irelia, beats the crap out of Nidalee and can stand toe to toe with GP. Seriously top tier solo top with great damage, tanky as hell and useful ult. A great pickup, tbh. | ||
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