EPT[Champion] Amumu - Page 18
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On November 05 2012 02:58 Scip wrote: sounds like reasonable ideas, sure. Anything else? I guess I'll write the guide here after it is done for grammar check. If I get off work early tonight I might start typing up something for what team comps Amumu would be best in and with what team comps you need what items with (obviously can't cover every base, but a few of the important ones). Whether I get around to it or not, I think it should be a staple in your guide though. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 05 2012 03:02 zulu_nation8 wrote: Not sure what you mean by chase and not spamming E, with 0/21/9 and mspd quints you're faster than any laner in the game, your E is most of your damage next to Q, you can animation cancel but it's really not needed, there's never been a time when I didn't E during a gank when I could because I thought I would fall behind unless I was saving mana for something. Happens really only when you have red buff, autoattacking+Eing right after might slow you down too much. With red you might want to only autoattack sometimes to secure the kill. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On November 05 2012 03:02 zulu_nation8 wrote: Not sure what you mean by chase and not spamming E, with 0/21/9 and mspd quints you're faster than any laner in the game, your E is most of your damage next to Q, you can animation cancel but it's really not needed, there's never been a time when I didn't E during a gank when I could because I thought I would fall behind unless I was saving mana for something. In my experience, the number of extra E's you land in a team fight is largely irrelevant when compared to sticking right on top of the carry you're going to try to bandage toss when it's off of cd. That 2nd stun should be your priority, not an extra 150 damage. That's obviously not saying to not use E, but more of be careful with its use as in his shell I think it said "Mash that E button in teamfights." | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On November 05 2012 03:10 I_Love_Bacon wrote: In my experience, the number of extra E's you land in a team fight is largely irrelevant when compared to sticking right on top of the carry you're going to try to bandage toss when it's off of cd. That 2nd stun should be your priority, not an extra 150 damage. That's obviously not saying to not use E, but more of be careful with its use as in his shell I think it said "Mash that E button in teamfights." You don't always stick to the other carry in team fights, and regardless there's 0 reason not to mash E in team fights unless for mana problems. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 05 2012 03:02 zulu_nation8 wrote: Not sure what you mean by chase and not spamming E, with 0/21/9 and mspd quints you're faster than any laner in the game, your E is most of your damage next to Q, you can animation cancel but it's really not needed, there's never been a time when I didn't E during a gank when I could because I thought I would fall behind unless I was saving mana for something. There are actually 320/325 base MS laners who will be faster than you with 0/21/9 because Amumu only has 310 base MS. | ||
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DURRHURRDERP
Canada929 Posts
just to make sure u max E on amumu 1st right ? and Q 2nd? Azingy (1:02): yea gg | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 05 2012 06:03 DURRHURRDERP wrote: DURRHURRDERP (12:58): yo just to make sure u max E on amumu 1st right ? and Q 2nd? Azingy (1:02): yea gg Well, then no known pro-player or top soloQ player maxes Q first, I'd say it's at the very least "completely unconfirmed to be good". And at the worst it is genuinely terrible. I took your word for it that Azingy maxes Q guys, zzzz. Don't make me double check everything you say. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Craton
United States17290 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 05 2012 13:02 Craton wrote: You can max either second or even do a mix. It's really situational which ends up being more useful, but the standard is E>W>Q. No, it is not. Standard is E>Q>W for the cooldown reduction on Q. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 05 2012 06:03 DURRHURRDERP wrote: DURRHURRDERP (12:58): yo just to make sure u max E on amumu 1st right ? and Q 2nd? Azingy (1:02): yea gg This is surprising to me. I used to max E first, then I stopped doing it, opting for more aggression by maxing Q first and leaving E at rank 2. I actually feel going W E E Q Q R then R > Q > W > E is better. Maybe it's just that my opponents are terrible. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
also afaik azingy's been evolving his amumu over time because i know i've seen him max q before | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 05 2012 18:51 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Wtf how are you guys even seriously debating writing a guide when you tell people stuff like "don't autoattack with mumu" and "level 2 gank is NEVER a good idea" also afaik azingy's been evolving his amumu over time because i know i've seen him max q before I can't remember the last time I've seen a level 2 gank that wasn't part of some kind of invade and roam support/2v1 lane that ended up as a 3 man surprise gank. Everytime my jungle level 2 ganks when I'm top it just pisses me off because he wastes time and checks off one gank top in his head and puts me in a worse position than I was (top lane vs purple side sucks). And I don't know what you're talking about with autoattacks but amumus passive is really good but if you dont have red buff auto attacks might let them get away out of range of your e sometimes just walking with them with w up and waiting for e and q is more damage. You argument for why it's good seems to be "it snowballs top lane" when the whole problem is their jungler is coming with red buff and and extra level or two within 30 seconds or something and the chances of getting a kill with level 2 gank are so low as it is while the chances of getting a kill with red buff on a pushed lane are very high I can't even see the argument. If you're talking about a level 2 gank with say. maokai with W and Q and something high damage top like udyr vs a champion like singed who starts ghost and is hard to gank later, sure but the average top laner with mumu? Hell if you don't land Q you can't even do anything. Level 3 and 4 ganks with red buff risk so much less and greatly increase the chance of a kill if you land Q (at the very least a flash) without leaving your lane stranded without wards vs a jungler nearby for the next 4 minutes or something. Heck even doing red buff without w is a bitch let alone when their jungler knows exactly where you were and that you leveled q meaning he either tries to kill you are your red or counter camps top lane neither of which you can do a whole lot about. (depends on your team and warding for the red buff thing) | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
I'm just saying that maybe it's a worthwhile tactic sometimes. My Amumu win rate is 65% in solo queue and he's my second most-played champ. Although I don't think this makes me better than anyone else at Amumu or that it makes me right, it gives me a little face validity here on an arbitrary metric. In general, your strategy as Amumu is to farm and camp the solo lanes until 6 then go bot lane on ult CDs to gank and take dragons. Being able to gank top lane at 2 without significantly pushing the wave or taking xp is a huge addition to your arsenal that you'd be stupid to limit yourself from doing on a theorycrafted basis of "it sounds bad." | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On November 05 2012 19:51 Slayer91 wrote: I can't remember the last time I've seen a level 2 gank that wasn't part of some kind of invade and roam support/2v1 lane that ended up as a 3 man surprise gank. Everytime my jungle level 2 ganks when I'm top it just pisses me off because he wastes time and checks off one gank top in his head and puts me in a worse position than I was (top lane vs purple side sucks). I don't really think "people at my skill level are shitty and piss me off" is a good argument against my point. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
I am sorry if this is insulting, but it sounds like haven't read the vast amount of problems this gank has that I listed here: On November 05 2012 02:19 Scip wrote: Firstly, if you don't achieve much, you lose about 40 seconds of blue buff, farm and presence around middle lane. Secondly, if it does mildly succeed (wasted flash+a lot of damage done) the lane is guaranteed to push and is therefore countered by the BY FAR most common purple jungle path which is wolves-blue-red and it is also countered by Wraiths-Red-Top from purple side, because of the extreme weakness of Amumu in early levels. Thirdly, it is also mildly countered by Wraiths-Red-Blue from purple side, because they are then able to take away your red buff or create an advantageous fight for them (4v3). And fourthly, it has a very small chance to succeed, no matter the top lane matchup. Or at the very least, you haven't bothered to explain why these above mentioned problems aren't as problematic as they seem at first (which is very) nor have you outlined circumstances where it is indeed a good idea to do (saying it's a good idea "sometimes", but not explaining when "sometimes" is). Anyway I am writing the guide atm I'll post it here when it's finished for grammar check. sounds cool? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 05 2012 20:22 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I don't really think "people at my skill level are shitty and piss me off" is a good argument against my point. I'm talking tournaments, you think people lane swap in solo queue lol Lee sins don't level 2 blue gank either, they start red and level 3 gank/countergank top. They also tend to W and E before trying to land Q, since trying to land skillshots that will make/break your gank is a messy business. Even denying him last hits will cause the lane to push, which means your laner will likely be denied when you leave. Just feels like the cons outweigh the benefits massively. | ||
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