|
aka, Always Kill Never Die, huehue, v. 2.0
So I'm not sure why but Riot gave Renekton his buffs back. Now he's so stupid strong that he demolishes anybody given the opportunity to snowball. You really can't stop him if he's been farmed. Here's how to roll.
Masteries: 8/21/1. Crit, Offense CDR, Garen (i.e. anything Garen can benefit from, aside from Ardor and Cleanse) Defensive Masteries, and Ghost.
Spells: Ghost/Flash
Runes: Armor Pen Reds, Armor/Lvl Yellows, MR/Lvl Blues, Movement Speed Quints
Items: Brutalizer, Boots, Ghostblade, Merc Treads, Brutalizer, whatever the hell you want. Really, at that point it doesn't matter. You can get Bloodthirster/IE/whatever for more damage, or get tank stuff for more tank. Either way you demolish people. If you want an ideal amount, I'd say Black Cleaver/Randuins/Banshee Veil.
Skill Order: Q/W, followed by the other, QEQRQWQWRWWEEREE.
How to play:
Laning Phase:
Start with a Broadsword and a HP Pot. Yeah, you can get away with it.
Renekton is so strong now that he can actually hold a solo now without dying in the first three minutes. Last hit as normal and if the enemy is close enough to hit them with your Q do it. The Q will give you enough heal to ignore that burst of harass. Continue to strategically last hit with W and Q until you hit 4. Grab E and use it to Slice through the Creeps, W your target, Q him, and Dice back to your wave. Repeat as necessary. Try to keep your rage for Q only, because you need it for the heal and stupid damage.
By now you've won your lane, gotten two kills, the tower, and have probably close to 2500 gold in the bank. Buy a Ghostblade and Boots. Now proceed to find things to farm. If you're REALLY farmed, this will come in the form of enemy squishy champions. If not, go farm creeps. See empty wave, farm it. Ideally, you want to weaken all the creeps just enough so that you have rage and can Q all of them in one shot. Not only is this effective at getting you the creeps, but it's utterly satisfying to have a ring of gold around you. If people try to gank you, use Slice and Dice to get away. For weak opponents, activate W and flash and right click on them to stun them, and then Q + E to heart's content. Try to bait enemies to overcommit against you before you ultimate, unless you're diving in on a teamfight from the side and the enemy squishy carry is in range.
Teamfights:
Come in from the side, dive the enemy carry. Ult and spam all of your spammable items. W and Q as much as you can. Once an enemy is slain, use slice and dice to catch up to them. Always aim your slice at an enemy that you can hit with it to get the dice proc. Be careful about CC, Renek is very vulnerable to CC. The best way to deal with this is simply to kill the opponent before they can do that. E-W-Q-E-auto will kill most opponents.
|
Parkjayhyuk starts broadsword because he's a hacker.
|
lets face it atm once you reach a decent farm you can pretty much just A move their base, screw teamfights Renekton can do it on his own. He is now my pub stomper of choice just pop your ulti slice your way in and collect the quadkill.
|
yeah renekton is kinda silly now. I think if they were gonna give him so much of his Q back they needed to tone down W so he doesnt 3 shot people.
|
i think he can jungle decently now too
i havn't tried it out too much yet though
|
I heard Kobe24 talking about how he's trying to make jungle renek work but it's just too slow or something.
|
his cooldowns are too long for jungling imho
|
He scales terribly into late-game and exhaust rapes him something of a wonder so better snowball fast with Ren imo.
|
3 ad quints
6 arp reds
3 aspd reds
9 armor yellows
9 aspd blues
21/0/9 cloth armor and pots
golems wraiths wolves blue b for boots then win the game
|
He still seems like a worse nasus to me, only more mobile and dealing less damage
|
On February 03 2011 17:13 Iplaythings wrote:
He still seems like a worse nasus to me, only more mobile and dealing less damage
you have no idea what you're talking about
As soon as people realize how to play renekton properly cries of imba will be coming from every hall
|
suffeli
Finland772 Posts
Renekton is ok now. But like Juicy said, he is like any other melee carry: exhaust, CC and magic burst destroys him.
You shouldn't jungle with Renek... he sucks at it.
|
right now i'm still abit torned between prioritising W or Q first, Fury empowered W does so much dmg its pretty ridiculous at the first 10 levels, makes for really easy kills if ur lane partners are competent enough, but u lose the lane staying power without maxing Q first and u farm so much slower without Q maxed...
right now i've been going the rout of D.Shield > CDR boots > Bruta > sunfire > complete youmu > BC then the game should be ending.
maybe its because i've been running the elementz masteries set-up of 23/6/1 i find that i get demoslished in team fight everytime if i don use my dice to get out after i blow all my skills, i'm running the same runes set ups as yours, i find MS is such a limiting factor for him, since he needs to gets close to off load his burst dmg, and hopefully nobody focus u and u can stay in the fight with ur ulti on...
this was before the renek buff, haven't been playing him much cause i couldn't play him properly and its messing up my win/loss ratio, gonna roll with him again later on..
also, does lifesteal work with his W?
|
On February 03 2011 18:47 Shizuru~ wrote:
right now i'm still abit torned between prioritising W or Q first, Fury empowered W does so much dmg its pretty ridiculous at the first 10 levels, makes for really easy kills if ur lane partners are competent enough, but u lose the lane staying power without maxing Q first and u farm so much slower without Q maxed...
right now i've been going the rout of D.Shield > CDR boots > Bruta > sunfire > complete youmu > BC then the game should be ending.
maybe its because i've been running the elementz masteries set-up of 23/6/1 i find that i get demoslished in team fight everytime if i don use my dice to get out after i blow all my skills, i'm running the same runes set ups as yours, i find MS is such a limiting factor for him, since he needs to gets close to off load his burst dmg, and hopefully nobody focus u and u can stay in the fight with ur ulti on...
this was before the renek buff, haven't been playing him much cause i couldn't play him properly and its messing up my win/loss ratio, gonna roll with him again later on..
also, does lifesteal work with his W?
max Q first because w range is shit, and the stun duration doesnt change depending on your levels
8/21/1. Why you run offense tree so dumb
cdr boots = bad
sunfire = bad
merc treads always
lifesteal works with w
|
On February 03 2011 18:51 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 18:47 Shizuru~ wrote:
right now i'm still abit torned between prioritising W or Q first, Fury empowered W does so much dmg its pretty ridiculous at the first 10 levels, makes for really easy kills if ur lane partners are competent enough, but u lose the lane staying power without maxing Q first and u farm so much slower without Q maxed...
right now i've been going the rout of D.Shield > CDR boots > Bruta > sunfire > complete youmu > BC then the game should be ending.
maybe its because i've been running the elementz masteries set-up of 23/6/1 i find that i get demoslished in team fight everytime if i don use my dice to get out after i blow all my skills, i'm running the same runes set ups as yours, i find MS is such a limiting factor for him, since he needs to gets close to off load his burst dmg, and hopefully nobody focus u and u can stay in the fight with ur ulti on...
this was before the renek buff, haven't been playing him much cause i couldn't play him properly and its messing up my win/loss ratio, gonna roll with him again later on..
also, does lifesteal work with his W? max Q first because w range is shit, and the stun duration doesnt change depending on your levels 8/21/1. Why you run offense tree so dumb cdr boots = bad sunfire = bad merc treads always lifesteal works with w
because that was wat elementz was doing with renek lol, imma switch it up abit and try again later on...
W is more of a guilty pleasure for me, because off loading a fury W at early level is just so satisfying  which normally does 400-500 dmg at about lvl 7..
|
On February 03 2011 19:06 Shizuru~ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2011 18:51 Caller wrote:On February 03 2011 18:47 Shizuru~ wrote:
right now i'm still abit torned between prioritising W or Q first, Fury empowered W does so much dmg its pretty ridiculous at the first 10 levels, makes for really easy kills if ur lane partners are competent enough, but u lose the lane staying power without maxing Q first and u farm so much slower without Q maxed...
right now i've been going the rout of D.Shield > CDR boots > Bruta > sunfire > complete youmu > BC then the game should be ending.
maybe its because i've been running the elementz masteries set-up of 23/6/1 i find that i get demoslished in team fight everytime if i don use my dice to get out after i blow all my skills, i'm running the same runes set ups as yours, i find MS is such a limiting factor for him, since he needs to gets close to off load his burst dmg, and hopefully nobody focus u and u can stay in the fight with ur ulti on...
this was before the renek buff, haven't been playing him much cause i couldn't play him properly and its messing up my win/loss ratio, gonna roll with him again later on..
also, does lifesteal work with his W? max Q first because w range is shit, and the stun duration doesnt change depending on your levels 8/21/1. Why you run offense tree so dumb cdr boots = bad sunfire = bad merc treads always lifesteal works with w because that was wat elementz was doing with renek lol, imma switch it up abit and try again later on... W is more of a guilty pleasure for me, because off loading a fury W at early level is just so satisfying which normally does 400-500 dmg at about lvl 7..
i think killing people with q is far more entertaining
|
Right now im loving renekton, i have been experimenting with caller's build and came up with this build. You reach 40% cdr really fast and get super tanky with around 170 Armor and 180 Mres, plus your Guardian Angel while doing insane dmg early game.
Skill Order: Q/E/Q/W/R then max Q+W
- E at lvl 2 lets u harass kinda like Leblanc, move in with slice and dice, Q everyone and return with the E proc.
Masteries: 8/21/1
i usually get Teleport+Ghost (i love teleport, it lets me be super aggressive and continuously buy all the cheap items for my build)
Runes:
arpen(red), flat armor(yellow), mres/lvl (blues), x2 move speed(quints) and x1 arpen(quint)
Item:
-> Sword+ Pot -> Brutalizer -> Boots -> [1] Y. GhostBlade -> [2] Brutalizer -> [3] Merc Thread -> [4] Spirit Visage -> [5] Guardian Angel -> [6] ????
Trying to decide between another tanky item or dmg item like Phantom Dancer, Infinity Edge or Frozen Mallet for my sixth item. Usually the game ends when i buy the B.F sword or Phage, so i haven't tested out which one will work better.
|
This champ is broken after the latest patch, waayy too strong
|
You sure you need 21d? That's usually for champs who don't like minion aggro while harassing or who are uber squish at early levels. renekton loves fighting with creeps around, is not squish, cannot SOS, and no dodge spec either. If you are doing 21 defense consider running dodge yellow to abuse nimbleness proc off minions while laning cos 10 % movespeed is nice if you want to get that stun on someone.
21 utility or 15 offense or 21 offense IMO. I played Ren and I find his ability to do stuff very limiting without my summoner spells, whereas offense tree make early game kills easier. Flash really blows when you don't have utility tree so I think cleanse if you don't do utility.
|
did jungle renekton earlier, have to say i was quite pleased with it, despite how terribly i did. my poor performance was more a result of me being a braindead idiot than jungle renek being bad. his jungle speed is quite fast, had very high cs, surprised even myself. i'll probably spend more time refining it. currently running 1/16/14 with apen/armor/mres p lvl/apen, naturally qeqw r>q>w>e. i feel like he could potentially have a very strong lvl 4 gank with slice n dice and stun. in a tactile sense, razors/wriggles feel very strong and greatly increase his jungle speed, esp given how often i got double-procs on his w.
|
Once this guy get's going snowballing he seems like 20 min Triforce Irelia on crack to me.
|
So....
i take it that eveyrone agrees that this gator is just fine pre-buff?
|
Fine pre buff? No, but they could have just given him a hair more lifesteal on q and been done with it, instead of pulling an anti ezreal or leblanc.
|
His ult scares me far more than Nasus ult now.
|
The thing about his ulti imo is the fact that all your skills are Fury'd and spamming furied Q every 4 seconds is pretty amazing.
|
Thats also the problem with jungling/ganking. His ganking is very subpar because all his power comes from his fury procs, which he really doesnt have time to build up to gank. He'd have to run straight to a gank from a jungle creep of which he didnt use any skills on so he'd save fury.
|
On February 09 2011 13:42 Exadra wrote:
He'd have to run straight to a gank from a jungle creep of which he didnt use any skills on so he'd save fury.
Duh? that's what you do...
|
So I bought this champ and wondering what the current good build to go with him? Most likely tanky dps I suspect, but not sure on what items to choose. Also, R>E>Q=W?
|
I just go ghostblade into tank items. You could buy sunfire in which case you would skip the bruta upgrade since there's a limited amount of money you can spend on damage
solo lane mandatory
R > Q > E > W
you have this disgusting harass combo in lane where you E, W, E backwards that crushes some matchups, if you get one of them take E at one and W at two. otherwise powerlevel Q
this hero is extremely high skill, I mean you can just faceroll with him since he's blatantly op but he's almost like a dota hero in terms of the advantages you can squeeze out with superior play
|
United States37500 Posts
Boots + 3 hp pots => Brutalizer => Merc Treads => Sunfire => Ghostblade => FoN => Black Cleaver => LW
WQQEQR, R > Q > W > E
|
|
|
United States37500 Posts
On March 24 2011 13:40 Juicyfruit wrote:
W over E u sure?
Why not? I usually use E for mobility reasons. I don't always land E on the enemy, even with full S&D. W scales better anyways (W:1.5, E:0.6).
|
It might scale better, but dont you want to level E faster so you can do your full combo more?
I tried items from this guide on leaguecraft (not in order): Ionian boots, Shurilies Reverie, Ghostblade, Radiuns, and then the game ended. It seemed "ok". I had good defense and health regen and great movespeed, but my damage output seemed a little low.
|
Uh, W may scale better with AD but E scales better with skill points, which is what you're actually spending. All you get leveling W is 20 damage and -1 sec CD, with E you get 30 damage and -2 seconds off your CD even with just one hit.
Moreover, you really shouldn't have trouble hitting them twice with E since if you're right next to them you can even E backwards and still hit.
In addition the lower E cooldown is more useful for harassment cycles unless they're letting you Q/W them every time those are off cooldown without any dash at all.
Reverie is a bad item on Renek, don't go by leaguecraft guides and just go by stuff people have posted here in the thread, the only item I think people have mentioned here which might be more meh on Renekton compared to when he started would be spirit visage.
|
On March 24 2011 14:22 NeoIllusions wrote:Why not? I usually use E for mobility reasons. I don't always land E on the enemy, even with full S&D. W scales better anyways (W:1.5, E:0.6).
Better AD/AP scaling (alone) is no reason to level a skill. You get the same scaling on all skill ranks, you deal the same bonus damage. The base damage (and cooldowns etc) is what you should look at when you decide what to max.
W gains 20/30 (with fury) damage per rank and 1 sec lower cooldown.
E gains 30/45 (dice with fury) damage per rank, 2 sec lower cooldown and 2.5% more armor reduction.
|
I tried him, he is awful at CS
I wonder how ppl can farm so well with him, seen high-elo got 200 CS with him easily, wtf
|
On March 25 2011 00:10 emucxg wrote:
I tried him, he is awful at CS
I wonder how ppl can farm so well with him, seen high-elo got 200 CS with him easily, wtf
What? With Q and double dash farming is real easy. Especially once you get sunfire, which I do every game because ult & sunfire is some unreal aoe damage.
|
On March 25 2011 01:47 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 00:10 emucxg wrote:
I tried him, he is awful at CS
I wonder how ppl can farm so well with him, seen high-elo got 200 CS with him easily, wtf What? With Q and double dash farming is real easy. Especially once you get sunfire, which I do every game because ult & sunfire is some unreal aoe damage.
ok, gotta try more sunfire build now. thx mate
|
On March 25 2011 00:10 emucxg wrote:
I tried him, he is awful at CS
I wonder how ppl can farm so well with him, seen high-elo got 200 CS with him easily, wtf
wtf???? dash dash q insta clears the entire wave, easily one of the fastest CS'ers in the entire game
|
On March 25 2011 09:03 rigwarl wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 00:10 emucxg wrote:
I tried him, he is awful at CS
I wonder how ppl can farm so well with him, seen high-elo got 200 CS with him easily, wtf wtf???? dash dash q insta clears the entire wave, easily one of the fastest CS'ers in the entire game
hmmmm i might did something wrong then lolololol
|
ill try the build suggested tonight and let you know :D
i was clearing creepwaves so fast as him though, dunno how you do it slow unless you only E one time. You know it goes 2 times
|
On March 25 2011 00:10 emucxg wrote:
I tried him, he is awful at CS
I wonder how ppl can farm so well with him, seen high-elo got 200 CS with him easily, wtf
On February 03 2011 05:48 Caller wrote:![[image loading]](http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/2912/chineseo.jpg) + 28 Jungle creeps for a total of 253 minion kills dat rice
thats over 10 cs a minute
renekton farms even better than mordekaizer
|
Ok. i tried the build. i got to almost black cleaver both games
I do like it it, but i think he needs more CDR. Not sure where to get it. Maybe give up sunfire for Randiums?
I was 10-5-10
and 4-3-5
both games we lost because my team was just real bad :\
|
On Renekton I like to go:
1/21/8
I don't feel it is worth it to dump 3 points into crit just to get 3% CDR even though CDR is his primary stat. The experience point talent is extremely valuable and you can get abused by smart enemies if you don't have it. They will attack you every time they level basically, most devastatingly at level 6 when you are still 5.
Move Speed
Armor Penetration
Dodge
Cooldown Reduction (flat)
Start Armor and Potions and buy:
Heart of Gold
Brutalizer
Ionian Boots
Avarice Blade (possibly before finishing Ionian)
Force of Nature
Randuin's
Ghostblade
That's 40%. You will go a little over actually, about .75% or something.
Afterwards I normally build Black Cleaver but you could also go Bloodthirster or Guardian Angel or whatever really.
Alternatively against certain enemy team compositions sub Merc Treads for Ionia boots and get a Spirit Visage to make up most of the CDR. This is for a CC heavy team which also tends to mean magic heavy so you get a lot of extra MR this way. Hexdrinker is a great choice here.
|
I have re-readed this thread again, this made me lol
Renek is very vulnerable to CC. The best way to deal with this is simply to kill the opponent before they can do that.
|
So how come Renek doesnt need a lot of damage? One damage item is good enough on him?
|
On March 25 2011 22:37 Morphx2 wrote:
So how come Renek doesnt need a lot of damage? One damage item is good enough on him?
Hurr durr tankydps doesn't need items to deal damage, your main goal is to be really annoying and kill the enemys squishys and to be unkillable. But if you don't need more tankyness Ghostblade/LW/Bloodthirster/Black Cleaver are good damage items on him-
|
On March 25 2011 22:37 Morphx2 wrote:
So how come Renek doesnt need a lot of damage? One damage item is good enough on him?
How many tanky dps champs do need 3+ damage items?
|
In the same way its best to get carapace for zerglings vs marines, and marines should get attack, melee normally want to build tankier, because of the time taken to reach their target they take a lot more damage. Consequently they have higher base damage anyway.
|
So I just had a real good game
I went full tank with one dps item at the end
Merc Treads, Sunfire, Radiums, Spirit Visage, Force of Nature, and Black Cleaver
worked well and gave people a headache.
|
Just go Trinity Force and it's instant win. It just is so amazing on Renekton.
|
0/21/9
ignite/ghost
1 health quint 2 armor pen quints
armor pen reds
armor yellows
mr/lvl blues
start
boots+3 pots->heart of gold
mercs vs stun heavy teams,cdr vs non stun heavy teams(cdr boots work better vs teams with slows)
vs magic heavy teams
buy a giant's belt than force of nature
vs physical heavy teams
buy another hog than sunfire
u should be fluid with ur item choices
brut->ghostblade for when u want damage
spritvisage when they dont have lots of healing debuffs
phage->mallet a pretty good late game choice
atmas is also great if u have alot of hp
trinity is amazing when their damage is low
as ren ur spells have high base value and shitty scaling so aim for 40% cdr
(cdr boots + ghostblade + spritvisage = 40%cdr)
if u know ur making ghostblade try to get hog+avarice early
ren is a beast~~
|
cdr boots such a waste in most cases imo
need merc treads too badly
|
slice and dice negates pretty much any kind of slow
|
On March 29 2011 22:05 Craton wrote:
cdr boots such a waste in most cases imo
need merc treads too badly
It's like the beserker greaves vs merc treads argument on ranged carries. Some games you can get away without mercs, and it will help your damage potential more than mercs since CDR/AS are both great multipliers in each case. Like if the opponent's team's main cc is alistar, cho, you don't need mercs since they don't change the duration of knockups/silences.
|
Been owning it up with rene lately.
|
On March 30 2011 01:01 Lobotomy wrote:
Been owning it up with rene lately.
And will continue to as long as he's not banned, no nerf for him ftw. Buying Renekton as soon as I have 6300.
|
Mercs on renekton are only needed when you a) didn't go full tank, b) they have a ton of disables that they don't need to dump on anyone else. Your auto attack damage is not that impressive and it doesn't really matter whether they stun you for 1.2 seconds or 2 seconds after you sliced in. In both cases their carry will back away from your stun and in both cases you will do your ult damage and skill damage. But yeah if you went for more than a brutalizer dps wise mercs become more favourable.
|
I'm running ms quints arp marks,dodge yel,mr per blue. Might try flat cd to be more flexible.
|
United States37500 Posts
On March 30 2011 03:50 Lobotomy wrote:
I'm running ms quints arp marks,dodge yel,mr per blue. Might try flat cd to be more flexible.
That's what I run. huk
|
|
|
On March 30 2011 03:50 Lobotomy wrote:
I'm running ms quints arp marks,dodge yel,mr per blue. Might try flat cd to be more flexible.
I like flat cdr a lot with ren, more useful (normally) than MR I think
|
I did pure DPS in a custom game 5 people vs bots
it was pretty silly with his DPS.
Even more silly was our Tryn who fed Soraka Bot and went 4-11-2 to her.
|
On March 30 2011 10:23 Morphx2 wrote:
I did pure DPS in a custom game 5 people vs bots
it was pretty silly with his DPS.
Even more silly was our Tryn who fed Soraka Bot and went 4-11-2 to her.
#1 strat vs bots is 5x infinity edge 1x sword of occult on gangplank. 1-hitting ftw.
|
On March 29 2011 10:18 Morphx2 wrote:So I just had a real good game I went full tank with one dps item at the end Merc Treads, Sunfire, Radiums, Spirit Visage, Force of Nature, and Black Cleaver worked well and gave people a headache.
This is the item build i use now and won 8 games in a row today. although i usually use cdr boots unless i really need cc protection because these items wont get you to 40 cdr without blue buff or elixer.
I run 0/21/9 masteries and apen marks/quints, armor seals, flat cdr glyphs. basically the damage from ult and sunfire is decent and you can stay alive so long if you just keep using q and w eventually you kill everyone.
Oh ive also found that its much better to prioritize q and e when lvling and leave w at lvl 1 the ability to spam e for damage and mobility is just too important and the stun duration doesnt increase.
so in conclusion: full tank ren is pretty godly.
|
On February 03 2011 18:51 Caller wrote:
cdr boots = bad
sunfire = bad
merc treads always
cdr boots are huge, should be getting those asap
sunfire isn't bad at all
|
From the looks of it they want to make stacking tank items on ren specifically not viable with the HoG nerf and the need for more AD items. There goes my build i guess.
|
Seems like a lot of people in hsgg/jiji streams have been going flash instead of ghost and it's been working pretty well.
|
I just bought this guy and I love him! :D really fun to play and adds a good mix up from my normal caster champs.
|
im having somewhat of a hard time with him after the patch :/
like how do i lane against ranged people kiting me (especially vayne)
and how the fuck do you farm 225 CS in 24mins??
|
Vayne does hit hard, but if you just stay back and threaten to e>w>q>e out her, she will most likely refrain from trading hits with you. You will probably need a doran's and if she ever gets really cocky, e and w you her, but in such a way that you can escape quickly (dont use all your E if she hasnt used her tumble)
Call for a gank as well, since you can always get them pretty low with renek. That CS requires you to stay in top lane all game, have your team ward for you, and basically ignore teamfights. Stadard procedure in lower levels. Higher elo, the neemy won't let you sit up there, and either gank or pressure with 4v5.
|
If I were renek vs a ranged, I'd just camp brushes a lot, maybe open cloth+5 or boots+3, and kinda play it like garen, where you can sacrifice some cs but you just wait in brush for cds and then go and kill them if they still try to farm.
|
Does renek just flat out lose to morde? I can out cs him just fine, but he can just bully me away from creeps and you can never really get much done to him with his shield.
Should I just let him push and trade hits for a gank or should I switch lanes?
|
On June 07 2011 08:51 bumatlarge wrote:
Does renek just flat out lose to morde? I can out cs him just fine, but he can just bully me away from creeps and you can never really get much done to him with his shield.
Should I just let him push and trade hits for a gank or should I switch lanes?
This has been said over and over again: If you are a champ that can not outright buttrape morde (lane ww comes to mind) you win against him by farming the same or more. Farm on you > farm on morde. Call for jungle ganks, make sure he ganks away from your creeps.
Win.
|
Hey I havent even tried this but I'm asking because I know one of you will have: Gunblade on Renekton, any good?
|
He doesn't get much out of the AP (don't recall if his ulti scales off it, could be).
But Gunblade works on everyone so you could probably build it. His skills actually benefit from spellvamp so you would get massive heals when Qing minion waves. That said he kinda allready gets that.
But again, Gunblade works on everyone.
Only downside is that if you don't win the lane people will call you retarded, but this is LoL and people will always call you retarded if you lose.
|
On September 25 2011 01:44 zalz wrote:
He doesn't get much out of the AP (don't recall if his ulti scales off it, could be).
But Gunblade works on everyone so you could probably build it. His skills actually benefit from spellvamp so you would get massive heals when Qing minion waves. That said he kinda allready gets that.
But again, Gunblade works on everyone.
Only downside is that if you don't win the lane people will call you retarded, but this is LoL and people will always call you retarded if you lose.
his ult scales with ap but its a .1 ratio...
his Q has horrible vamp to begin with and is only good in a teamfight but only if it is empowered. But to be honest i would much rather use the empowered W over the Q thus making him not flexible at all :/
still awaiting that so called renekton buff Guinsoo promised on twitter :/
|
Their idea of a buff is fixing his broken e arp.
|
On September 25 2011 05:05 Craton wrote:
Their idea of a buff is fixing his broken e arp.
but usually when you say "buff" you mean to strengthen them.
a fix is trying to fix a bug that should not have been there...
god dammit I want him to have a different passive.
|
On September 25 2011 02:17 heroyi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 01:44 zalz wrote:
He doesn't get much out of the AP (don't recall if his ulti scales off it, could be).
But Gunblade works on everyone so you could probably build it. His skills actually benefit from spellvamp so you would get massive heals when Qing minion waves. That said he kinda allready gets that.
But again, Gunblade works on everyone.
Only downside is that if you don't win the lane people will call you retarded, but this is LoL and people will always call you retarded if you lose. his ult scales with ap but its a .1 ratio... his Q has horrible vamp to begin with and is only good in a teamfight but only if it is empowered. But to be honest i would much rather use the empowered W over the Q thus making him not flexible at all :/ still awaiting that so called renekton buff Guinsoo promised on twitter :/
Actually a furied Q deals TONS of AoE damage, I usually use the empower for Q. You also max it first so you should be doing more damage with Q than W.
|
|
|
On September 25 2011 09:48 -Kato- wrote:
-Kato- = Numbers in disguise
|
|
|
no 5hit i just bought renetkon with bloodfury dont make anothter skin
|
that skin is... INCREDIBLE.
|
Holy shit that skin was amazing.
|
are those sandals or crocs?
|
On October 04 2011 09:41 Haato wrote:
are those sandals or crocs?
HAR HAR
|
On October 04 2011 09:41 Haato wrote:
are those sandals or crocs?
Haha well played. I do like that skin, pretty clever.
|
|
|
He needs to be buffer duh
|
good lord that looks badass
him swinging the surfboard around... would be so lol
|
That skin is badass, nice job.
|
just saw voyboy toying with hs's cho as renekton earlier today on iem.
now i'm wondering who else does he wreck? can certain champs beat him?
been debating whether to get udyr or renekton for a while now..i feel like udyr's a safe choice to have at top lane as he doesn't have much weakness, but voyboy is making me think otherwise haha
|
I've been wanting to get him for a while, since I only seem to do well with AD characters and he's just so much fun to play during free week. I'd like to play him pretty much as the tank, and I was wondering how Rylai's would be on him. I know the AP is pretty much wasted, but the aoe aspect of most of Renekton's abilities make me feel like he'd be better at initiating.
What other items would you guys get on renek?
|
Rylais on Renekton nooooo wtf! 500 hp and a shitty slow for that much money?
If you really want to slow go Mallet>Atmas, but you should be building: boots>dorans blade (optional)> bruta > Warmogs > Atmas > FoN / Mallet / LW.
OR you could go ahead and troll it up with Rylais+DFG+Gunblade!
|
On October 15 2011 09:35 [NoiSe] wrote:
I've been wanting to get him for a while, since I only seem to do well with AD characters and he's just so much fun to play during free week. I'd like to play him pretty much as the tank, and I was wondering how Rylai's would be on him. I know the AP is pretty much wasted, but the aoe aspect of most of Renekton's abilities make me feel like he'd be better at initiating.
What other items would you guys get on renek?
err, frozen mallet would be a million times better
|
Is this guide still relevent or what other openings are better in the long run.
I played one game vs Akali which was really fkin gay past around level 7
Started boots and could easily hold till 6ish
Bruta
made shit up after this, spirit visage im told isnt a bad cd item along with boots
so now I ask is it better to just atmogs and get it over with or build more damagy with a couple tank items on the side?
|
I use Voyboy's guide: http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=300
Although I do WQEQQR as I find when I get E I play to aggressive and get owned by OP minions.
Renekton is counter to Akali so I'm not sure the trouble you are having vs her. You should be able to dominate pre-6 to still be ahead post-6.
|
that guide is ancient, from when he had broken sustain and... broken everything really
|
Even still, better than the guide in the OP. I find I do well with it and until someone offers better advice with sound reasons I'll stick to that guide.
|
or you could figure out how to play him on your own lol
|
How do you guys feel about the CDR-spam build on Renekton? (Brutalizer, Spirit Visage, Boots of Lucidity)
|
|
|
On October 25 2011 16:30 beef42 wrote:
How do you guys feel about the CDR-spam build on Renekton? (Brutalizer, Spirit Visage, Boots of Lucidity)
Ive been running an atmogs with a fast bruta and lucid boots and have been raping the last couple games.
been like QWWEQR personally
|
Why would you level W over Q? Q gains more damage per level than W with or without fury, not to mention the healing and shorter CD.
I do WQEQ or WQQE generally. Auto + w + auto is really strong for level 1 trading and then Q is just outright better beyond that. Q>E>W.
On October 25 2011 15:06 UniversalSnip wrote:
that guide is ancient, from when he had broken sustain and... broken everything really
It was updated less than two months ago. It's completely accurate.
|
I like getting Sunfire/Atma's so I can AOE in my AOE. Also taking 21 offense with the magic pen for the AOE damages and wit's end to build up my fury faster.
Edit: Wait a minute thats more of a Dragon Lady build, but it's what I've been doing on Renekton.
|
On October 30 2011 02:26 Craton wrote:
Q gains more damage per level than W with or without fury, not to mention the healing and shorter CD.
Q's CD is 8 seconds flat.
|
I've read through the thread, but i'm not sure if he's gone through any recent nerfs. I sort of want to buy, but a few questions:
Is he worth the 6300?
How's his replayability?
Fun-ness on a scale of 1-10?
Scale with skill or is he a kind of 1-trick-pony, and, is he versatile?
|
One of the few 6300 heroes that I actually enjoy to play.
|
I feel he is worth the 6300. If you can use his fury he is pretty strong. Fun-ness scale would have to be 10 out of 10.
|
On November 05 2011 06:45 zergnewb wrote:
I feel he is worth the 6300. If you can use his fury he is pretty strong. Fun-ness scale would have to be 10 out of 10.
Nice, thank you.
|
|
|
On November 05 2011 03:45 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 02:26 Craton wrote:
Q gains more damage per level than W with or without fury, not to mention the healing and shorter CD.
Q's CD is 8 seconds flat.
Shorter CD as in Q is always shorter CD than w.
|
I feel like 21/0/9 is stronger. The only thing you're really missing out on is the 6 armor and 30 hp but Renek is such a lane bully anways. Also get deadlyness/lethality over sorcery/arcane knowledge imo. Random crits in lane are just so ridic. Also you get some crit from Atmas later so it's even pretty good later on.
|
see Renekton is an asshole with no mana bar and he can use his moves every cd. That said cdr is a very good stat to have maxed on him in my opinion. I used to build ghostblade and a brutalizer for 25% cdr, while it doesn't scale well into the late game it will make you able to spam everything in team fights better. The only thing scaling off magic pen would be the ultimate. This new Magic pen mastery isn't as good as the old one 10% vs 15% so I'm not sure if it is still work getting. I will work on a new build to get as close to max cdr as possible and still be tanky with good dps. The way the crocodile killer should be played.
|
I like to blend tankiness with CDR. Brutalizer is a must (I do late game ghostblade, but never tried both). Being tanky allows you to stay in middle of team fights with ult and let's you generate that extra fury when you are below that 50% threshold. I'll get visage every so often if there is only one AD.
|
renekton is on free rotation EU this week. first impressions is that he is a lot of fun, voyboys guide is out of date with the new masteries but is everything else written here/there still relevant?
am i the only one who likes to open vampiric sceptor on champions like renek? i just enjoy having that sustain and it doesnt take a lot of time to make the health back compared to pots. i know you dont always want to push your lane but when the choice is having to b or pushing your lane a bit i just love being able to heal up so much D:
|
well if you are on low health, and push at the same time, you will usually die against decent players
|
On November 22 2011 22:14 freelander wrote:
well if you are on low health, and push at the same time, you will usually die against decent players
the idea of life steal is you never end up at low health?
|
21/9/0 with hp5
Arp reds, dodge yellows, flat mr blues, hp5 quints
Open boots 3 or cloth 5 depending on lane difficulty. Once in awhile I go dblade, but I don't really like it. Dshield is also an option, but I prefer pots.
If you're against a team where tabi is good then get super quick tabi, as cloth -> tabi is very cheap and boots 2 is a nice early advantage
Cdr on renekton is nice, but a bit overrated. Once Renekton gets his warmogs he becomes beastmode and can just afk push 24/7. Sometimes I go bruta > warmogs, sometimes I go straight warmogs, sometimes I'll go giant's belt > bruta > warmogs. Depends on what you need in the lane.
I go WQEQ or WEQQ typically. Ideal harass is auto attack into W, as W is basically a free auto attack w/ bonus damage and a stun. Same goes for in lane, if you can e through minion, auto+W, Q, E back then that's ideal. If you're just way stronger you can stay in his face and not E back, but E'ing back is how you win the trades many times. If you can't get the auto, just EWQE.
Renekton naturally pushes lane, so ward heavily. If you get ganked and can't just run back to tower, hide in grass till they get close, then E twice (go through them) to safety. Most of the time this will save you.
Can easily bait a fight with ult+ignite. Even in 1750 ranked games people still commonly underestimate Renekton's ult ignite combo.
|
On November 22 2011 22:25 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 22:14 freelander wrote:
well if you are on low health, and push at the same time, you will usually die against decent players
the idea of life steal is you never end up at low health?
If you want to avoid going B early it's best to go cloth + 5 pots for a difficult/even lane or boots + 3 if the lane is easy, as the pots give you 600-1000 extra HP (and the cloth armor is great vs most top solos). Starting vamp scepter is silly if you want to stay in lane longer because someone who starts with more pots (even a greedy regrowth + 1 pot) will simply walk over you and force you off the creeps.
Someone with cloth + 5 effectively has 1500 HP with which trade harass with you starting from level 1. There's no champion in LoL that can trade favorably against that without some health pots of their own. With vamp scepter you'd have to do 8000 damage to creeps just to break even with him and that's not even counting the extra EHP he has from cloth armor.
It's the same principle as the old gangplank lanes where with HP runes/doran's he'd walk into lane with 900 HP and simply Q you and trade hits evenly until you realized that, crap, you're going to die before he does.
|
this is going to be a stupid question but brutaliser stacks with ghost blade? i just assumed that because 1 built into the other the unique passives wouldnt work together even though they are different
|
So I've been messing around with flat ad marks and quints because of that op 10% apen mastery, and since I usually go brutaliser for additional apen. The game turned out SO GOOD. Now I'm wondering if brutaliser is really necessary since I do so much damage prior to getting a brutaliser.
Thinking about replacing brutaliser with 2 dorans to get hp belt a lil bit quicker. From there, I could rush atmas or warmogs depending on the situation. THoughts?
..yeah I may be undervaluing cdr from brutaliser ><
|
its passable, but sub-optimal
|
On November 23 2011 08:43 billy5000 wrote:
So I've been messing around with flat ad marks and quints because of that op 10% apen mastery, and since I usually go brutaliser for additional apen. The game turned out SO GOOD. Now I'm wondering if brutaliser is really necessary since I do so much damage prior to getting a brutaliser.
Thinking about replacing brutaliser with 2 dorans to get hp belt a lil bit quicker. From there, I could rush atmas or warmogs depending on the situation. THoughts?
..yeah I may be undervaluing cdr from brutaliser ><
You stack dorans if you lose your lane, so you can stay in it longer. Brutalizer is awesome on Renekton, gives you everything you need early on. If mid is feeding all game long, you could get warmogs or frozen mallet after 1 or 2 dorans, if bot is feeding hart get atmas.
Btw, if you are dominating your lane and the rest of your team isn't feeding/behind as f**k, stay top forever and get IE after brutalizer (obviously dont get IE if your jungler is some squishy one like shaco). Continue normal atmogs stuff after IE and you'll carry that game hard as fk.
|
ie renekton = free kill
soft as shit
|
ok so I am friends with homies for the homeless and to my understanding Renekton is a tanky ass dude that does raw damage,in grips from level 2, and can initiate nicely with his ulti and double dash, then stay on the dps Udyr-style while throwing stuns and draining HP. The secondary objective is to counterpick top really hard, because renekton zones melees extremely well, beats squishy casters, is hard to gank, and really only minds annoying tops like Yorrick.
Brutalizer is not a good first item though; wriggles increases tank status with armor, allows faster buff steals etc, and gives a ward. Its preferred usually to just doing more damage because sustain / tankyness > flat damage, allows better turret dives etc.
After that if you get some MR you're pretty unkillable.
Runes: apen quints/reds, flat armor yellow, magic resist per level blue
Movespeed quints are optional too if you want to be an asshole
Masteries: 5.21.4, touching demolisher in offense
Flash or Ghost + Tele/Bigxhaust
|
Wriggles makes you worse at being able to tower dive because it delays the tanky items you need. If you get a wriggles you either skip brutalizer altogether (bruta >>>>>>> wriggles) or have an absurdly late warmogs, which is the item that gives you the bulk of your strength.
Renekton gets his sustain from his Q and Warmogs. Wriggles is for heavy autoattackers like irelia gp etc, not physical casters like Renekton. More importantly, it severely delays his core and makes his midgame very weak, which is where he should be strongest. It's the same issue with IE: if you're wasting 4k on a pure damage item, then you fall over dead instantly in every fight because you're a bruiser trying to pretend you're a carry. Moreover, half of its cost is largely wasted, as IE is built for heavy autoattackers, which Renekton is not.
|
Thoughts about running Renekton mid lane? He's strong vs most other melee champs but I find he excels vs casters like Karth/Cass/Annie/Morgana/etc as his dash/nuke/dash away is pretty much unavoidable damage if they want to last hit with autoattack at all, and you have better sustain.
Open boots 3, 21/9/0
|
On November 22 2011 22:28 Craton wrote:
21/9/0 with hp5
Arp reds, dodge yellows, flat mr blues, hp5 quints
Open boots 3 or cloth 5 depending on lane difficulty. Once in awhile I go dblade, but I don't really like it. Dshield is also an option, but I prefer pots.
If you're against a team where tabi is good then get super quick tabi, as cloth -> tabi is very cheap and boots 2 is a nice early advantage
Cdr on renekton is nice, but a bit overrated. Once Renekton gets his warmogs he becomes beastmode and can just afk push 24/7. Sometimes I go bruta > warmogs, sometimes I go straight warmogs, sometimes I'll go giant's belt > bruta > warmogs. Depends on what you need in the lane.
I agree with most of what you said. Some feedback though:
What summoners do you use exactly? With the new masteries I actually went back to Ghost a couple of times and like it a lot. Is there any matchup where you'd rather go Cleanse or Exhaust instead of Ignite?
Why are you so obsessed with HP5 on Renekton? Why the HP5-Quints? I would probably rather have something to dominate the lane with (Movespeed, ArPen or even Flat AD). You start with 3-5 pots anyway which should last you till your first back for boots & brutalizer. After that your empowered Qs should give you all the sustain you need. I would also rather get the bonus health instead of the HP5 in the Defense tree.
Why the Dodge Yellows? No more nimbleness and having Armor yellows is better for early skirmishes, isn't it?
Did you ever try Flat AD Marks & Quints? Makes those early empowered Qs hurt so much more... In general you seem to focus way more on his durability with rushing Warmogs and having a lot of sustain with HP5 runes and masteries. Is that really worth it? Do you still crush lanes with that setup (esp. without going Brutalizer before Warmogs)?
|
The reason you take arp over AD on renek is because he basically always gets a brutalizer. You're gonna be doing damage straight through most of their armor so the arp is slightly stronger than the AD.
|
It's hilarious to me that people think dodge is somehow bad now that nimbleness is gone. Dodge is much better than flat armor the longer the game goes.
I use ignite because you can't really get a kill in the lane without it, as people can generally just easily escape before you do enough damage, since most of your damage is burst from abilities. I will go exhaust against Trynd and some special occasions like if my team is all ignite and we need an exhaust for the matchup. I don't like TP on Renekton, but you can do it. Once upon a time I ran ghost, but flash+stun is really strong. I haven't really tried ghost since patch. I don't see cleanse being better than ghost/flash for Croc.
Movespeed does not help you dominate your lane. It's something that is useful as the game goes longer, but being able to slice+dice is what gets you into the fight most of the time, anyway. With hp5 masteries and quints I'm going into lane with 19hp5, which is more than a pot in regen every minute (228).
Minions arrive in top lane at 2:05 and your typical first back comes around 5-7 minutes, which means I'm getting 4-6 pots worth of extra regen, most of which is from the quints+masteries. Couple that with your pots and Q regen and you are REALLY hard to move out of lane, which lets you bully early (and Renekton is a very good bully, especially early).
|
On November 24 2011 00:48 Craton wrote:
It's hilarious to me that people think dodge is somehow bad now that nimbleness is gone. Dodge is much better than flat armor the longer the game goes.
In no way did I say that Dodge Seals are bad though.  As you already stated they are more of a late game advantage and I always liked to be as powerful in early game (where Armor Seals should be stronger) as possible with Renekton.
Thank you for providing some math for your HP5-choices. I take it you rather push people out of lane by outlasting and constantly harassing them instead of going for bigger bursts. I like it, really need to get those HP5 quints I guess...
|
It's a trivial difference early for a less than trivial gain later
|
I dont really like HP5 Quints or Dodge seals. Renekton is a beast early game, and IMO you need to be aggressive in lane to win it, you dont outsustain your enemy, you either kill him or make him B.
And armor seals vs dodge, you cant dodge abilities, so when playing against anyone who has any physical damage ability flat armor is better. Yes dodge is better late game, but you really want to win your lane early, you dont play Renekton to go lategame. I think he is similar to Garen in that sense.
I play him with flat AD reds and quints, armor yellows and mr blues. Boots+3, and depending on wether you get kills or not bruta or bruta +1 or 2 dblades to kill anything, even if you get ganked.
I really really dont like HP5. Doesnt help you kill, and the way Renek naturally pushes allows you to base without too much exp loss frequently.
I usually go Flash Ignite, but I tried Ignite Heal the other day... those 2v1 ganks went from me killing 1 guy to me killing both! But I think Flash is better anyway.
|
So I've been trying out renekton lately as he's currently free on the SEA server.
I've been trying to play him like pantheon early on, opening DB and just trying to zone off and bully their top laner. I go DB->boots->bruta. If I'm doing well I try to press the advantage by getting a BF sword while buying resists with chainmail+negatron. if I'm going even I do phage+chainmail+negatron. If the game long enough I'll it up with mallet+atma.
In teamfights I'm more looking to protect my carries from any threat and kill any squishy who is out of position.
Is this the correct playstyle for renekton? Also what is the opinion regarding a triforce as a lategame item after my atmogs/fratma if the game goes long enough?
|
I would think LW + that extra 1800 spent elsewhere would do you more good, unless you're always fighting squishies.
|
I think damage items on Renekton drop in effectiveness after the laning phase. I've had some experience stomping ~1400 ELO, and what I've found to work was getting Dorans, Brutalizer, and Phage to start. But then getting Tankier with FM and Atmogs thereafter to be more effective.
In games that have gone long enough, I have Merc Treads, Atma's, Frozen Mallet, Warmogs, Guardian, and Force of Nature.
|
as i recall vman just plays him with a full ad page... as in, every rune slot ad, and builds him pretty much glass cannon after that
|
Renekton can apply all 3 stacks of Black Cleaver with his W at once :o
I don't know why you guys don't rush it as a first item before boots 1 :D
|
On February 03 2012 15:19 jacosajh wrote:
I think damage items on Renekton drop in effectiveness after the laning phase. I've had some experience stomping ~1400 ELO, and what I've found to work was getting Dorans, Brutalizer, and Phage to start. But then getting Tankier with FM and Atmogs thereafter to be more effective.
In games that have gone long enough, I have Merc Treads, Atma's, Frozen Mallet, Warmogs, Guardian, and Force of Nature.
His damage doesnt fall off, its just that he's kinda like pantheon in that if he can't 3-shot a squishy he is just useless outside of being able to stun a guy every few seconds, but you can't afford building pure damage.
I've kinda being following smash's pantheon build early game and later I get a mallet+GA OR randuin+banshees, with the rest being damage items.
|
Didn't say his damage falls off. But building damage loses effectiveness. You can't dish out any damage if you die in 3 seconds. On the other hand with your ult, you can have sustainable Dps in teamfight as long as you live.
Why get banshees when you can get FON?
The black cleaver sounds pretty good but I guess alot of people favor brutalize for cdr.
|
On February 06 2012 01:55 jacosajh wrote:
Didn't say his damage falls off. But building damage loses effectiveness. You can't dish out any damage if you die in 3 seconds. On the other hand with your ult, you can have sustainable Dps in teamfight as long as you live.
Why get banshees when you can get FON?
The black cleaver sounds pretty good but I guess alot of people favor brutalize for cdr.
I dunno I'm just trying stuff out. I'm not a good player by any means. I just thought if I can get away with building just 2 defensive items randuin's+banshee would be a good combo cuz they both provide some health too.
|
I literally cannot beat Renekton in lane as Riven in the early game unless my jungle comes and crushes him once or twice (and even then, it's difficult for the jungle to do so because Renekton has quite a nice escape dash).
Am I doing it wrong? Or is Renekton really that good against Riven?
|
Insta bought the new skin <3<3
|
On May 02 2012 19:37 AsnSensation wrote:
Insta bought the new skin <3<3
Yeah, this patch cost me 1900 RP. Had to instabuy the Irelia skin too. Now I just need to start playing Irelia again.
|
yeah dat ass on the irelia skin might buy it, too but lets not discuss here since it's the alligator thread.^^
|
On May 02 2012 18:53 Pulselol wrote:
I literally cannot beat Renekton in lane as Riven in the early game unless my jungle comes and crushes him once or twice (and even then, it's difficult for the jungle to do so because Renekton has quite a nice escape dash).
Am I doing it wrong? Or is Renekton really that good against Riven?
Riven should not be getting stomped on that hard by Renekton...you are definitely doing something wrong.
Topic about Renekton's damage/usefulness late game:
He doesn't necessarily have to keep building AD till late game to be effective. Him becoming a bruiser makes him an annoyance still. Gets a buttload of hp (increased survivability time in teamfights) while still maintaining an effective dps output.
off topic: When in hell did Renekton get so much attention all of a sudden? I remember almost never seeing a Renekton player top before when I mained him nor have I ever heard so much about him either...
I still think need he needs a rework on his passive considering its a definition of a rage system while Tryn gets an actual rage passive :/
|
So which renekton skin is most worth the money? They dont seem to have new animations of anything :/
|
On June 13 2012 06:40 Ushio wrote:
So which renekton skin is most worth the money? They dont seem to have new animations of anything :/
Rune Wars Renektons has new particle effects, though.
|
hah, was psyched to see the renek thread bumped and it was a question about skins.
Has anybody had much luck against rumble, and if so what works well?
I've tried maxing W faster and going for really heavy slice - W - Dice away before stun wears off, but if they're fast enough to activate flame thrower you still get chunked for a bit.
|
I dunno. I tend to do well (even at least) in the matchup, but there are few good Rumble's out there to accurately gauge it against.
|
Yo, another Renek lane question! ^^ I bought him recently and I'm thrilled, at first I lost 3 games like a complete noob (built him with def masteries, offtanky kinda, I was useless) but ever since I started abusing my early and midgame damage by playing aggressive I'm getting insane results.
But today, I laned vs Yorick. I even got 2 kills on lvl1 from a Blue Invasion, went to Top and encountered Yorick. EVERY time I tried my standard E>W>Q>E combo to harass him, I ended up losing the exchange or outright dying to the fucking ghouls. (we won the game but that's not the point).
Is there any way to outtrade him in lane or is my best bet freezing/camping at tower and getting in last hits when I can?
|
On June 13 2012 21:06 Plague1503 wrote:
Yo, another Renek lane question! ^^ I bought him recently and I'm thrilled, at first I lost 3 games like a complete noob (built him with def masteries, offtanky kinda, I was useless) but ever since I started abusing my early and midgame damage by playing aggressive I'm getting insane results.
But today, I laned vs Yorick. I even got 2 kills on lvl1 from a Blue Invasion, went to Top and encountered Yorick. EVERY time I tried my standard E>W>Q>E combo to harass him, I ended up losing the exchange or outright dying to the fucking ghouls. (we won the game but that's not the point).
Is there any way to outtrade him in lane or is my best bet freezing/camping at tower and getting in last hits when I can?
Yorick is pretty much designed to outsustain every other champion in lane. Renek's really good at bullying people around lane, but you're not going to be able to bully Yorick, so he's a bit of a soft counter. Ways to solve this: ganks from jungler (of course) + I often like to troll up and down river with my mid laner getting kills at top and mid. This only works if you've got a champion in mid who's fast and can gank well. Get golems or wolves to top up your farm, a good Yorick will outfarm you because you basically need to farm at turret to avoid losing all your HP.
|
ive been playing a ton of renekton the last few days and he is really fun. i dont usually play real aggressive so renekton is a breath of fresh air cuz i go hard with him. i stomped a vlad too which was refreshing.
my question is: is there any champ you WOULDN'T pick renekton into top lane? i havent faced a yorick yet, im thinking that could be tough. ive just been picking him no matter what im up against to get a sense of what he can do. im kind of curious how a lane vs riven would go too.
|
China26351 Posts
|
|
|
Irelia just needs to last until level 7 or so, and then her true damage starts biting you in the arse. You can't force her out of lane easily because she can just build armor and her sustain will offset most of your damage. You have to shut her down pretty hard early on for that to not happen (or if they build like an idiot... then the matchup is yours for the taking).
Jayce has given me problems, he'd just boot me away if he didn't want to trade, and I just kind of sat there wondering what on earth I was supposed to do because you can't really do much once you burn slice and dice.
I wouldn't pick him against Malphite, but he's banned 24/7. Udyr would probably be problematic as he can just turtle until he can smash Renekton's face in. Poppy has given me problems because the amount of armor she gets from her w starts to add up, so if she survives long enough her armor and regen makes it hard to kill her. Possibly Lee Sin, but that probably comes down to skill. I imagine if the matchup is completely equal skill wise, Lee Sin simply has more utility than Renekton, so he'd probably be more useful in teamfights.
Pretty short list all things considered. :>
|
Has anyone got success with CDR items on Renekton? or is it troll build. I recently bought him and the most success I had is building cdr masteries, cdr boots and brutalizer (i get roughly 40% cdr). Which is huge, you remain active in prolonged fights since you don't do sustained damage, but you do combos a lot.
|
The defense cdr masteries are good. Brutalizer is good on him but I really think you need defensive boots unless your crushing the game. He has some serious downtime in between abilities so a. kind. Of fast ghostblade can be good as well
Something like brutalizer phage aegis ghostblade.
|
CDR is a really good stat on Renekton, unfortunately there are not a too many CDR items that fit him. Even Ghostblade's Crit stat is pretty much wasted and Renekton scales off of big chunks of AD, not a poor 30 AD.
So currently, I'd go some kind of CLG.eu Wickd style build. When Renekton was released, his base stats (especially with fury) were so ridicoulus that you could go full tank and still kill all the squishies ez pz. Since base damage got reduced significantly, his ratios got increased and Wickd's build makes full use of it. Renekton now is not unkillable anymore, but deals a serious amount of damage while you can't ignore him.
Build order depends on the enemy and what he is going for, but at 6 items, it looks something like this:
Boots (Merc / Tabi)
Bloodthirster
Randuin's
Maw of Malmortius
Last Whisper
Guardian Angel (or Aegis if no one else got it for your team)
Let's you live long enough (€dit: remember that he gets 600 HP from his lvl 16 ultimate which is why you can get away with not too many HP items) to get a 2nd spell cycle off, but you can't function as the main tank anymore.
|
Don't ever think about getting ghostblade on renekton, never mind rushing it, if you never play the champ don't say random stuff to confuse people.
|
I hardly think 4.5k into your build could be considered rushing anything. Also I disagree about never getting it on him.
|
On September 05 2012 21:11 Feartheguru wrote:
Don't ever think about getting ghostblade on renekton, never mind rushing it, if you never play the champ don't say random stuff to confuse people.
Well if your 3-0 at 8 minutes running 25 armourpen runes, brutalizer -> ghostblade -> second brutalizer gets you like 66 flat armourpen, and you basically do true damage for the rest of the 20 minute game.
|
The money spent on finishing Ghostblade is better spent on more AD and/or tankiness. Using money in crit and an active that doesnt work with you is wasting money. I like building FM (after bruta, hexdrinker and boots 2) on him so you can really stick to your target when your abilities are on CD.
|
How do you trade with Riven as renekton? Is there a way to, or is renekton just hard-countered by a riven of ≥ skill? I always have trouble against riven as renek.
|
I have personally never had an issue with the matchup. Stun her if she tries to do anything to you, then unload your full combo, and dice away. Fury empowered Cull the Meek should make it easy to outsustain her, even if she somehow manages to outdamage you. Keep your engagements short (unless you have a massive advantage), the longer they drag out the more Ki Burst and Valor will come into play (they have lower cooldowns than your skills), so it will start to swing into her favor.
It probably comes down to skill, but I feel like Renekton has the advantage.
Also make sure you have the two masteries that give you flat damage reduction, and always use the minion wave to keep the situation favorable. It's really unlikely a Riven is going to have -4 damage vs minions, so if you land a fury empowered cull the meek on her in the middle of a minion wave, she's not going to win the trade unless you sit around and let her whack you all day long.
|
On September 19 2012 03:02 BlasiuS wrote:
How do you trade with Riven as renekton? Is there a way to, or is renekton just hard-countered by a riven of ≥ skill? I always have trouble against riven as renek.
Riven is op and gonna nerfed. Meanwhile consider watching when her abilities are on cooldown, which is very short window to do something (she has very short cooldowns). If enemy picks Riven, only decent counter is Yorick (who is not actually counter, you still stay alive in the lane).
If you don't believe she is op, just look at her stats and abilities:
4 dashes, attack based shield, aoe stun (which is far more better than renekton's) and aoe damage ult. And everything is on low cooldown. She has high base damage and regen etc...
On September 19 2012 03:25 zer0das wrote:
I have personally never had an issue with the matchup. Stun her if she tries to do anything to you, then unload your full combo, and dice away. Fury empowered Cull the Meek should make it easy to outsustain her, even if she somehow manages to outdamage you. Keep your engagements short (unless you have a massive advantage), the longer they drag out the more Ki Burst and Valor will come into play (they have lower cooldowns than your skills), so it will start to swing into her favor.
It probably comes down to skill, but I feel like Renekton has the advantage.
Also make sure you have the two masteries that give you flat damage reduction, and always use the minion wave to keep the situation favorable. It's really unlikely a Riven is going to have -4 damage vs minions, so if you land a fury empowered cull the meek on her in the middle of a minion wave, she's not going to win the trade unless you sit around and let her whack you all day long.
you can't trade evenly with a good riven, she will turn on her shield and your Q is worthless. And your 0.75s stun is nothing compared to her 1s stun, which has low cooldown. Also, Riven has higher health regen which is why she will have more sustain.
|
wickd has been streaming lots recently, playing a lot of renekton
i highly suggest watching him when he plays, one of the only pros who believe he's viable and play him
|
??? Riven just straight rapes Ren in trades.
Q Q Q W, then E away and you will never get a Q or W off. If you chase with your E, you're getting smacked by minions and opening yourself up to a gank. Even if you manage to catch Riven, you won't do as much damage nor regain as much life from the trade.
|
On September 19 2012 04:43 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 03:02 BlasiuS wrote:
How do you trade with Riven as renekton? Is there a way to, or is renekton just hard-countered by a riven of ≥ skill? I always have trouble against riven as renek. Riven is op and gonna nerfed. Meanwhile consider watching when her abilities are on cooldown, which is very short window to do something (she has very short cooldowns). If enemy picks Riven, only decent counter is Yorick (who is not actually counter, you still stay alive in the lane). If you don't believe she is op, just look at her stats and abilities: 4 dashes, attack based shield, aoe stun (which is far more better than renekton's) and aoe damage ult. And everything is on low cooldown. She has high base damage and regen etc... Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 03:25 zer0das wrote:
I have personally never had an issue with the matchup. Stun her if she tries to do anything to you, then unload your full combo, and dice away. Fury empowered Cull the Meek should make it easy to outsustain her, even if she somehow manages to outdamage you. Keep your engagements short (unless you have a massive advantage), the longer they drag out the more Ki Burst and Valor will come into play (they have lower cooldowns than your skills), so it will start to swing into her favor.
It probably comes down to skill, but I feel like Renekton has the advantage.
Also make sure you have the two masteries that give you flat damage reduction, and always use the minion wave to keep the situation favorable. It's really unlikely a Riven is going to have -4 damage vs minions, so if you land a fury empowered cull the meek on her in the middle of a minion wave, she's not going to win the trade unless you sit around and let her whack you all day long. you can't trade evenly with a good riven, she will turn on her shield and your Q is worthless. And your 0.75s stun is nothing compared to her 1s stun, which has low cooldown. Also, Riven has higher health regen which is why she will have more sustain.
While I agree with Riven being a hard lane for Renekton, I think you're way overestimating several things. Riven's dashing with Q is slower and her Valor barely brings her distance above Renekton with 2x slice and dice(260 x3 + 325 vs. 450 x2)
Also, Riven's stun is just as long as yours, it's not 1 sec, it's 0.75 sec.
3 health per 5 sec is not a huge difference in sustain that will keep Riven sustained for the whole lane. It's not even 1 auto attack per minute difference.
Renekton's Q doesn't become "worthless" the moment Riven turns her shield on either - it still punches through (riven isn't maxing it vs. you) and heals you.
Not sure how Renekton is "supposed" to play the lane, but it isn't the Riven-walkover you say it is.
I do know however, if Renekton is denied rage (can't even auto creeps) then Riven will win exchanges. Renekton needs his rage to win exchanges.
|
im not an expert by any means but to trade v riven, w->dash into her-> stun her, q -> dash back out
if you get the stun off she wont deal any damage throughout the entire trade
|
On September 19 2012 04:57 jacosajh wrote:
??? Riven just straight rapes Ren in trades.
Q Q Q W, then E away and you will never get a Q or W off. If you chase with your E, you're getting smacked by minions and opening yourself up to a gank. Even if you manage to catch Riven, you won't do as much damage nor regain as much life from the trade.
It really sounds like you haven't played the matchup at all, there's no way she's landing 3 Q's on Renekton without taking anything in return unless he just fell asleep at the wheel. Also the minion wave should always favor Renketon, because his fury empowered q+defensive masteries means he's massively favored when a fight takes place in the minion wave.
To the person who says she shields and you're worthless- uh, no. She has to choose between damage or her shield, she can't max both early on. Reneketon's primary damage skill is his q, which is also what gives him his sustain, and makes him a beast trading in the middle of a minion wave. You don't even need to trade evenly with her (although I would argue that is quite easy to do, and even winning a damage trade is quite feasible) because of how much Renekton's empowered Q heals him.
The way you lose the lane as Renekton is by trying to kill her too early instead of biding your time, slowly wearing her down with your fury enhanced skills.
|
On September 19 2012 05:51 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 04:57 jacosajh wrote:
??? Riven just straight rapes Ren in trades.
Q Q Q W, then E away and you will never get a Q or W off. If you chase with your E, you're getting smacked by minions and opening yourself up to a gank. Even if you manage to catch Riven, you won't do as much damage nor regain as much life from the trade. It really sounds like you haven't played the matchup at all, there's no way she's landing 3 Q's on Renekton without taking anything in return unless he just fell asleep at the wheel. Also the minion wave should always favor Renketon, because his fury empowered q+defensive masteries means he's massively favored when a fight takes place in the minion wave. To the person who says she shields and you're worthless- uh, no. She has to choose between damage or her shield, she can't max both early on. Reneketon's primary damage skill is his q, which is also what gives him his sustain, and makes him a beast trading in the middle of a minion wave. You don't even need to trade evenly with her (although I would argue that is quite easy to do, and even winning a damage trade is quite feasible) because of how much Renekton's empowered Q heals him. The way you lose the lane as Renekton is by trying to kill her too early instead of biding your time, slowly wearing her down with your fury enhanced skills.
You seem to completely overlook riven's passive, even if she doesn't land any of her Qs (suppoeing you're retreating after your combo), she can dash-shield to you and make three hits which are quite enough to take 30-40% of year health.
Plus, the main problem of renekton is to gain his fury and long cooldowns. You have to use your 50 fury to heal which is why creeps gets pushed, and riven can do whatever she wants.
Believe me, I have played this matchup vs decent rivens, and its pretty onesided.
Oh, and everyone seem to forget her infamous escape mechanism. Top gets ganked every once in a while, but nvm, riven got 4 jumps and stun, she doesn't even need to flash. And riven is free to reign the top.
|
Renekton vs Riven isn't like... awful, but it certainly favors Riven. She simply outtrades really well early on. Now, there is enough skill in the matchup that you can try to outplay her. However, as some have stated, cds just aren't on Renek's side. Her stun is a shorter cd and her dash is a much lower cd. Renekton can gain life, but in doing so he'll push the lane and open himself up for ganks.
|
On September 19 2012 12:57 bokeevboke wrote:You seem to completely overlook riven's passive, even if she doesn't land any of her Qs (suppoeing you're retreating after your combo), she can dash-shield to you and make three hits which are quite enough to take 30-40% of year health.
Plus, the main problem of renekton is to gain his fury and long cooldowns. You have to use your 50 fury to heal which is why creeps gets pushed, and riven can do whatever she wants.
Believe me, I have played this matchup vs decent rivens, and its pretty onesided.
Oh, and everyone seem to forget her infamous escape mechanism. Top gets ganked every once in a while, but nvm, riven got 4 jumps and stun, she doesn't even need to flash. And riven is free to reign the top.
Riven can completely miss one of her skills and outdamage Renekton? Are you for real? Because Renekton can't auto her in the mean time meaning the actual damage difference amounts to like 10-20 damage a hit (at level 6, depending on rune setups)? Even if she uses her stun, that means she's only getting in one extra autoattack. If you've already landed your full combo, I don't see how she can possibly end up ahead at this point.
Broken wings pushes the lane almost as much as Cull the Meek, but she doesn't heal from it.
I don't like playing the matchup, because taking into account junglers, it is an absolute pain in the arse with a lot of early interference because Riven can cruise past her weak point and she's more useful later. But I don't understand why people are saying Riven>>Renekton and give examples that are not at all realistic.
It's not like Renekton is easy to kill with his stun, double dash, and ult that gives him a bunch of flat health on command either.
|
It doesn't really matter because top lane is mainly gank-dependent anyway and whoever gets the first successful gank is going to be ahead. It's not horrible for Renek and it's not insanely good for Riven. Just bait her into shoving wave and sit at tower farming with auto/Q until you have enough damage to clear waves with EEQ. If she tries anything stupid just WQEE and get back to tower.
|
I just wanted to say I absolutely love Ravenous Hydra on Renekton. The active essentially removes the animation on his w when used immediately after it, which makes his combo a lot smoother (on top of doing a lot more damage), while giving him lots more sustain.
|
On June 11 2013 06:20 zer0das wrote:
I just wanted to say I absolutely love Ravenous Hydra on Renekton. The active essentially removes the animation on his w when used immediately after it, which makes his combo a lot smoother (on top of doing a lot more damage), while giving him lots more sustain.
I agree with that, though I've found it hard to fit in a build. It's tough to give up the CDR on brutalizer, and Renek doesn't need the pushing power from Hydra, and I'd rather get LW/Maw over Hydra most of the time if I need a 2nd damage item.
The burst from Hydra when their team is cc'd by a wombo combo is hilarious though.
|
after 200 games ranked with renekton.. rushing brut and maybe a dorans first back... is the only items u need offensively. waste if u build more AD. he doesn't scale like riven when u build AD. brut/dorans and sunfire early will rape any top lane.
|
Sure you would say that, Malphite. Just so he can't hurt you at all with you 300 armor.
|
On September 19 2012 03:02 BlasiuS wrote:
How do you trade with Riven as renekton? Is there a way to, or is renekton just hard-countered by a riven of ≥ skill? I always have trouble against riven as renek.
Rene is one of hard counters to riven.You outtrade and outscale riven in even levels.Just dont get lvl 2 or lvl 6 cheesed.Only chance to stay even trades for riven is maxing her E.
Every time she comes to stun you you can stun her first and Q her.You can also dodge her Q s with your E.
|
United States23745 Posts
I'm really bad at Renekton, like I think I've won like one game with him bad. Anyone got some beginner tips? I would like to be good at him because I think he's a solid Top laner, but there's just something about him I'm not wrapping my head around. I feel like I lose almost all trades even if I get a little bit ahead.
|
On July 02 2013 09:51 onlywonderboy wrote:
I'm really bad at Renekton, like I think I've won like one game with him bad. Anyone got some beginner tips? I would like to be good at him because I think he's a solid Top laner, but there's just something about him I'm not wrapping my head around. I feel like I lose almost all trades even if I get a little bit ahead.
I mean, you probably know this, but in case you don't...
E in -> W stun -> Q -> E out should work in most matchups and win you trades without much/any return damage.
|
United States23745 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:15 Complete wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 09:51 onlywonderboy wrote:
I'm really bad at Renekton, like I think I've won like one game with him bad. Anyone got some beginner tips? I would like to be good at him because I think he's a solid Top laner, but there's just something about him I'm not wrapping my head around. I feel like I lose almost all trades even if I get a little bit ahead. I mean, you probably know this, but in case you don't... E in -> W stun -> Q -> E out should work in most matchups and win you trades without much/any return damage.
I think I've been Q-ing before W, but this makes a lot more sense.
|
Levels 1~3 use your fury to empower your W; it does insane amounts of damage. Post lvl 5 when you have 3+ levels in Q start empowering that instead. When you have level 2 Q and level 1 W it doesn't matter which one you empower, they do roughly the same damage.
A good trick with Renekton is to build your fury to 40~45, then do your combo. E->W->Q->E out. Using W gives you 10 fury if you're under 50 so make sure you account for that when trading. However, you don't always have to stun before using Q. After you get level 3 Q, as long as you're hitting the enemy laner with empowered Qs you should be able to win basically any trade. Also don't be afraid to auto them and trade that way, as well. The heal from Q more than makes up for whatever minion damage you'll take. As long as you're saving your second E activation to disengage you should never really lose any trades. Post-6 you stomp on almost every single other laner whenever your ult is up, especially if you take ignite. You can even 1v2 some situations with your ult.
|
United States23745 Posts
Maybe I've been playing too passive in lane then. Good advice all around, I'll be sure to try this next time.
|
Manage your fury well. Push the lane so you hit 2 first, then get an empowered w+and slice and dice off on your opponent. It should leave them quite low, and let you dictate the lane (at least until the enemy jungler comes around). If you don't push the wave after that, the opposing wave will push back and be at your tower at around level 4-5, which gives you a really good opportunity to force your opponent to recall or to kill them. Build tanky aside from brutalizer, Renekton's base damage is really good (generally get defenses before brutalizer- ie, sunfire cape and merc treads or tabi).
Also I suggest watching/reading Souza's guides, because you can get a really good idea of how to play Renekton in a variety of matchups. I already had a pretty good idea of how to play Croc, but his guides helped iron out a lot of the kinks in my play and start winning 60-70% of my games with him.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409971
|
I usually get brutalizer, but will occasionally get 2 dblades instead. I usually do this in games where getting brutalizer/cleaver isn't optimal (you need to be super tanky and can't afford to spend so much on damage for example). As Renekton you always want to get some damage due to how great you scale with AD, but don't go overboard buying damage unless you're completely stomping since as Renekton you usually want to be in the thick of things when teamfights start.
|
Trying pick up Renekton. I have a problem sometimes deciding weather or not to really focus on harass. Curently I'm just doing the combo every time E is up, but sometimes I find (especially vs sustain champs) I miss some CS and I slowly fall behind.
How do I know when it's appropriate to trade?
|
I'm mid-silver elo and wrecking with Renekton so far 6-0, winning every lane. However I have no paid any attention to his fury or passive but focus on csing and harassing when my CD's are up and his are down (usually). Should I start focusing on using the right skill with fury and if so which for what situation?
|
Personally, I focus on last hitting and pushing the lane to build up fury. Levels 1~3 I make a point of trading when my stuff is off cooldown and I can hit them with empowered W. Level 4+, you want to initiate trades at 40~49 fury. E in ->W->Q then auto attack or E out depending on the situation. This way, you hit them with empowered Q immediately after stunning them. Sometimes, depending on how safe they're playing and/or the match-up, it may be hard to hit them with the stun. In those cases, just build up 50+ fury, E in into Q range, use empowered Q. If possible, trade with empowered skills; the damage difference and your ability to trade is hugely different between using empowered and non-empowered skills.
Generally speaking, you get the most damage levels 1~3 from empowered W and from levels 4+, you get the most damage from empowered Q. You should be maxing Q>E>W, although I think Darien has maxed E>Q>W before but that's a more teamfight oriented build.
|
Starting items for renekton? I tried dolans shield and pots vs Irelia (jungle camped, not enough sustain) and rejuv/5pots/ward vs malph and neither seemed to work well.
|
Those both work. Although you can also start dblade or red elixer+3 if you want to all-in at level 2/3
Both those matchups should be in your favor tho...Altho malph might be a bit harder.
|
Yes the Irelia won was going well but I was overconfident and assumed their Lee had left. She snowballed levels/phage off that. Malph had a very weak early game but it seemed once he hit around 4/5 his Q poke was huge - I did run 21/9/0 in that lane so that probably had something to do with it.
I have been rushing hydra but it makes me feel squishy so I think I may stop that.
|
On September 03 2013 15:32 miicah wrote:
Yes the Irelia won was going well but I was overconfident and assumed their Lee had left. She snowballed levels/phage off that. Malph had a very weak early game but it seemed once he hit around 4/5 his Q poke was huge - I did run 21/9/0 in that lane so that probably had something to do with it.
I have been rushing hydra but it makes me feel squishy so I think I may stop that.
I just build hydra first and build no more damage items generally. Sometimes I just build tiamat and go straight into Sunfire. The tiamat improves renekton's combo a bunch with the W cancel I feel like its worth it. Im pretty bad though.
|
On September 03 2013 15:32 miicah wrote:
Yes the Irelia won was going well but I was overconfident and assumed their Lee had left. She snowballed levels/phage off that. Malph had a very weak early game but it seemed once he hit around 4/5 his Q poke was huge - I did run 21/9/0 in that lane so that probably had something to do with it.
I have been rushing hydra but it makes me feel squishy so I think I may stop that.
If you rush hydra then at the point where teamfights break out you are generally way too squishy. Renekton is one of my most played champs and at this point the most I ever build is a brutalizer and that's only if something occurred to make me really fed early. Otherwise I just build sunfire or visage first depending on the lane matchup and the enemy team comp. You beat Irelia in early levels but if you don't punish her enough or you get cocky, it's very easy for Irelia to start being able to 1v1 you once she has enough armor. Especially if you rush hydra or something you won't have enough health to be able to beat through Irelia's lvl 4-5 hiten true damage. It's similar with malphite except if you just let the lane go too easy for him neither of you will be able to kill each other and it's really annoying to not be able to pressure a lane as Renekton. Renekton doesn't even really need offensive items to do a lot of damage in teamfights. Just with sunfire + ult you do quite a bit of aoe magic damage and I still end up with a lot of kills just going sunfire+visage as my first two items. Play Renekton like Darien. Forget tiamat and hydra.
|
Yeah, on Rene i usually get either a dorans blade or a brutaliser if i feel like i need damage in lane, and straight into visage/sunfire afterwards. Tiamat/Hydra is nice i guess, but for the same amount of money you could have a brutaliser and half a sunfire cape. Which is both better in lane and better in teamfights.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/30can9h.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/v8enwg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i51.tinypic.com/30c7rle.jpg)
