After taking many losses for the glory of TL, I have finally perfected the new Garen build. Where sunfires have fallen, a new build arises to take its place. I proudly present to you, the Fastest Garen.
You're actually not going to do a lot of this.
Introduction to Skills: I'm sure all of you are fully aware of what Garen's skills are, but let's go over them again for the hell of it.
Perseverance-The passive that lets you sit in a bush and heal. Try to have this up whenever possible as the free in-lane heal is nice and lets you stay there longer. Not too relevant for the purposes of this build, but nice to have.
Decisive Strike: I see this and I see free speed. When your attack speed is low, (as in under 1.5) you can use this in between attacks. So after an autoattack goes off, press q immediately. This is useful for things like last hitting, as well as in a fight against an opponent. The silence is also useful for stopping spells or that flash across the wall. Try to max this out right after Judgment.
Courage: While this is better than nothing, the fact that you have to level it out to get the full benefit means missing out on decisive strike. Since I like to have decisive strike up as much as possible, I don't get this until both Q and E are already maxed out. Once you have it, just press W and blitz in-the damage reduction is pretty strong.
Judgment: For the purposes of this build, Judgment does very little damage late game. Therefore, max it out early to gain the maximum benefit of it while you can. In case you aren't aware of what it does, not only does it spin and deal damage to enemies without armor, it also removes all slows on you and halves the durations of new slows. So there are two obvious times to use it-when you are near enemies, and when you are being slowed. You can activate Q while it is spinning for a boosted speed. It's not super for farming but its not terrible either-I tend to spin when there are a large amount of creeps clumped up (one normal creep wave abouts) In teamfights, because this build forsakes damage, I generally avoid using it unless I need to deal damage on the move, or I'm in the middle of a swarm of enemies (2+ makes it worth spinning instead of attacking). If you have red buff you should probably not be using this too much.
Demacian Justice: This ultimate is an execute. The Fastest Garen build helps this because you can catch low HP champs with your insane speed. Even ghost won't save them. If they are at 33% hp that's usually enough for an execute, unless they have magic resist (so plan accordingly). This is excellent in teamfights because you can take out a player almost immediately.
Masteries: 8/21/1. Get ghost mastery and Offense Cooldown Reduction. Dont' get ardor.
Summoner Spells: Ghost Flash. Ghost for speed, and flash for flashing in while spinning/getting an ult off.
Items: Boots of Speed + 3 HP Pots Zeal Depending on how much money you have, you change your next item: If $ < 880 buy Speed Dagger if $ > 880 but less than Zeal cost buy Critical Strike Cape if $ > Zeal cost but less than PD Cost buy Zeal if $ > PD Cost finish PD Merc Treads should be finished at some point in there too. Use your reasoning and judgment (kekeke)
After this, I build Atma's Impaler, Force of Nature, and Warmogs, alternating the first two depending on the enemy team comp. Then just triple pot to win the game if you haven't already.
How to Lane-Not going to address this because this is simple. Just prioritize last hitting.
How to midgame-farm open lanes whenever you see them. Mash Q whenever it is up. Get all the creeps, or as many as you can. When you've pushed the lane to a certain point go to another one (usually before second tower is a good place to stop).
How to Teamfight-try not to be caught in the middle. You are tanky, but not that tanky. If possible, flank the enemy and try and catch their squishies. At the very least you will stop them from attacking and casting. You can usually kill them, though. Your speed lets you catch them and forces their tanks to either come back to deal with you, or to let their squishies die. Keep in mind that you are the carry, though, and avoid dying no matter what. If you are low, run away-they can't catch you. Then turn around, as you will likely have regened a decent amount of HP by now, and go find a new target to blitz. Try to have red buff and don't be afraid to autoattack-your attack speed is high enough that you can out DPS a yi.
End-game. Pretend you are Shen. You don't have an ult teleport, but you run fast enough that you can be virtually anywhere at any time. If a teamfight starts or is about to start pop your q and ghost and make a beeline for the battle. Otherwise, push lanes hard, both for the farm and to kill towers.
Wait, I may have downs, but if im reading this correctly, you get boots +3 pots, then a zeal. from that point, you either buy shit to finish the pd, or buy another zeal?
On January 19 2011 11:28 Two_DoWn wrote: Wait, I may have downs, but if im reading this correctly, you get boots +3 pots, then a zeal. from that point, you either buy shit to finish the pd, or buy another zeal?
yes, depending on the amount of money you have when you back for the second or third time
I get the point of this item build, but why do it on Garen? He has a small built-in speed boost, a pretty good silence, a decent single-target ult, and...? Why not do it on, say, Olaf? This just seems more like a guide to a move-speed oriented melee DPS than to Garen specifically.
On January 19 2011 11:51 oberon wrote: I get the point of this item build, but why do it on Garen? He has a small built-in speed boost, a pretty good silence, a decent single-target ult, and...? Why not do it on, say, Olaf? This just seems more like a guide to a move-speed oriented melee DPS than to Garen specifically.
olaf doesn't have an insta gib ult and this build doesnt give him enough hp early on to let him spam his e
This build won us 4v5 (flakes' internet was having stomach troubles). Or maybe it was just cos the only competent member of the enemy team was Koggy. Either way, this build made my brother laugh so hard he cried.
On January 19 2011 11:51 oberon wrote: I get the point of this item build, but why do it on Garen? He has a small built-in speed boost, a pretty good silence, a decent single-target ult, and...? Why not do it on, say, Olaf? This just seems more like a guide to a move-speed oriented melee DPS than to Garen specifically.
On January 19 2011 11:51 oberon wrote: I get the point of this item build, but why do it on Garen? He has a small built-in speed boost, a pretty good silence, a decent single-target ult, and...? Why not do it on, say, Olaf? This just seems more like a guide to a move-speed oriented melee DPS than to Garen specifically.
Crit increases his spin damage
how much does it ? Ive never heard about the ratio before.
On January 19 2011 11:51 oberon wrote: I get the point of this item build, but why do it on Garen? He has a small built-in speed boost, a pretty good silence, a decent single-target ult, and...? Why not do it on, say, Olaf? This just seems more like a guide to a move-speed oriented melee DPS than to Garen specifically.
Crit increases his spin damage
how much does it ? Ive never heard about the ratio before.
it doesnt increase spin damage, it increases the chance that the spin damage for a particular damage tick is doubled (or in the case of infinity edge, 2.5'd. )
so a 50% crit chance means a 50% chance that a judgement hit deals double damage.
On January 19 2011 11:51 oberon wrote: I get the point of this item build, but why do it on Garen? He has a small built-in speed boost, a pretty good silence, a decent single-target ult, and...? Why not do it on, say, Olaf? This just seems more like a guide to a move-speed oriented melee DPS than to Garen specifically.
Crit increases his spin damage
how much does it ? Ive never heard about the ratio before.
it doesnt increase spin damage, it increases the chance that the spin damage for a particular damage tick is doubled (or in the case of infinity edge, 2.5'd. )
so a 50% crit chance means a 50% chance that a judgement hit deals double damage.
To add to this, if you look at when he spins there is a different graphic when he "crits" with his spin. There is a little mini ult sword that comes down onto the target.
unless they've changed it (they might have, idk)... Crit ticks of judgement only double the AD scaling portion of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it though, seeing as how they took a giant dump on the AD scaling by making it only Bonus AD.
On January 20 2011 03:50 Mogwai wrote: unless they've changed it (they might have, idk)... Crit ticks of judgement only double the AD scaling portion of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it though, seeing as how they took a giant dump on the AD scaling by making it only Bonus AD.
On January 20 2011 03:50 Mogwai wrote: unless they've changed it (they might have, idk)... Crit ticks of judgement only double the AD scaling portion of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it though, seeing as how they took a giant dump on the AD scaling by making it only Bonus AD.
yes this
so it's still just critting the AD scaling portion?
On January 20 2011 03:50 Mogwai wrote: unless they've changed it (they might have, idk)... Crit ticks of judgement only double the AD scaling portion of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it though, seeing as how they took a giant dump on the AD scaling by making it only Bonus AD.
yes this
so it's still just critting the AD scaling portion?
yep which, since the scaling is shit, makes me just build the PDs for running. E at lategame is only useful for doing damage on the move and getting rid of slows, really. Otherwise I would just use autoattacks.
On January 20 2011 04:42 Mogwai wrote: LOL, what a shitty character.
at least i can carry tl with him
he seriously does a lot of damage with the pds, i out dpsd shitcombos jungle yi and ran faster than him too. plus i'm far tankier. He can still get focused down, but that's why I come in at the side to force the squishies to run. Time enemy carries spend running is time they aren't shooting which lowers the enemy dps level.
Summoner Skills: Ghost/Ignite (preferred), Ghost/Exhaust Masteries:0 21 9 Runes: Quints: Move Speed Red: Armor Pen Yellow: Health per Level Blue: Magic Resistance per Level
Skill Order: QEEWER, R > E > Q >= W Item Build: Boots + 3 HP pots => Giant’s Belt => Sunfire Cape => Merc Tread’s => Pickaxe => Last Whisper => Negatron Cloak => Force of Nature => Phage => Atma’s Impaler => Frozen Mallet
Playstyle Laning phase, come out of the brush to do the Q + E combo. Harass whenever possible, otherwise use Q to maximize your last hitting. For an early lane kill, Ghost + Q + E + Ignite, finish with ulti.
Late game, use brushes tactically. Q for silencing your target, then team focus fire. Pop W if you draw aggro. While primarily used offensively, E does reduces debuff duration, so retreat using it when necessary.
After you max E, alternate between Q and W. W gains Armor/MR based on minion kills. So it’s not ideal to max this last. Be aware of when your Armor/MR gains are near max for that skill level then invest another point into W whenever needed. W is even more essential now that Garen’s survivability has taken a big hit over the last two patches.
Judging from the stats, how come Garen makes it to T1 on virtually every list? He doesn't really have anything to close the gap, no imba burst and no CC/Taunt. What makes Garen so much better of a tanky dps than let's say Xin Zhao/Olaf?
EDIT: he used to be high because he hit like a truck without any items that did damage so he could deal insane sustained deeps while being literally impossible to kill.
Mogwai, for as far as I could find, Elementz and Reginald both put him on T1. What would you guys say is the strongest melee dps in the game right now? Xin Zhao? Or just strongest all round.
On February 10 2011 05:40 BouBou.865 wrote: Mogwai, for as far as I could find, Elementz and Reginald both put him on T1. What would you guys say is the strongest melee dps in the game right now? Xin Zhao? Or just strongest all round.
reignofelementz.com is elementz' blog. It has his current teir list.
On February 10 2011 05:40 BouBou.865 wrote: Mogwai, for as far as I could find, Elementz and Reginald both put him on T1. What would you guys say is the strongest melee dps in the game right now? Xin Zhao? Or just strongest all round.
Not Garen, He's not even really a dps.
Xin Zhao, Warwick, Akali, and Irelia are probably the strongest melee dps. I've seen Master Yi be good as of late but hes really a lot easier to kill than the other 4.
Also I don't count pantheon really as a melee dps, he plays more like a melee mage.
I guess I deserve to be trolled, I have no idea where I read that. Is Akali really that viable? She seems so much like a pub stomper, but she sure was fun as hell to play. Also, what makes her jump from T1 in solo queue to T3 in Draft Mode? She doesn't seem like an instaban.
On February 10 2011 05:40 BouBou.865 wrote: Mogwai, for as far as I could find, Elementz and Reginald both put him on T1. What would you guys say is the strongest melee dps in the game right now? Xin Zhao? Or just strongest all round.
Not Garen, He's not even really a dps.
Xin Zhao, Warwick, Akali, and Irelia are probably the strongest melee dps. I've seen Master Yi be good as of late but hes really a lot easier to kill than the other 4.
Also I don't count pantheon really as a melee dps, he plays more like a melee mage.
LOL
Akali is Melee DPS is Phrost's book but Panthoen isn't. DERP
Irelia is probably better than Xin in good hands (read: Atlanta) aand they're the top 2 guys who are undoubtably Melee DPS IMO.
On February 10 2011 05:40 BouBou.865 wrote: Mogwai, for as far as I could find, Elementz and Reginald both put him on T1. What would you guys say is the strongest melee dps in the game right now? Xin Zhao? Or just strongest all round.
Not Garen, He's not even really a dps.
Xin Zhao, Warwick, Akali, and Irelia are probably the strongest melee dps. I've seen Master Yi be good as of late but hes really a lot easier to kill than the other 4.
Also I don't count pantheon really as a melee dps, he plays more like a melee mage.
LOL
Akali is Melee DPS is Phrost's book but Panthoen isn't. DERP
Irelia is probably better than Xin in good hands (read: Atlanta) aand they're the top 2 guys who are undoubtably Melee DPS IMO.
Pantheon doesn't fit what one would expect out of a melee dps because hes more about bursting someone down in his stun or keeping his distance and Qing them to death.
I duno you can call Pantheon a melee dps too but it just doesnt feel the same because he sucks at chasing people when his stun is on CD.
On February 10 2011 05:40 BouBou.865 wrote: Mogwai, for as far as I could find, Elementz and Reginald both put him on T1. What would you guys say is the strongest melee dps in the game right now? Xin Zhao? Or just strongest all round.
Not Garen, He's not even really a dps.
Xin Zhao, Warwick, Akali, and Irelia are probably the strongest melee dps. I've seen Master Yi be good as of late but hes really a lot easier to kill than the other 4.
Also I don't count pantheon really as a melee dps, he plays more like a melee mage.
LOL
Akali is Melee DPS is Phrost's book but Panthoen isn't. DERP
Irelia is probably better than Xin in good hands (read: Atlanta) aand they're the top 2 guys who are undoubtably Melee DPS IMO.
Pantheon doesn't fit what one would expect out of a melee dps because hes more about bursting someone down in his stun or keeping his distance and Qing them to death.
I duno you can call Pantheon a melee dps too but it just doesnt feel the same because he sucks at chasing people when his stun is on CD.
O_o
unlike akali, who's awesome at it when she's out of Essence of Shadows. Or Xin when Charge is on CD. Or Irelia when Bladesurge is on CD.
Most Melee Deep have silly burst, Pantheon's may be higher than most, but Akali's burst is wtf bbq and she's an assassin Mage along the same lines of Kat or LeBlanc more than a Melee Deeps like Xin or Irelia by all accounts.
Do people still think Garen is viable top? Played him vs Irelia the other day and crushed her, sure his late game makes him basically a blob of hp but his damage early/mid is still crazy good, and he is still damn hard to kill.
I'd probably only play him vs a few select tops as he is still an average champ, but was wondering what the better players on here have to say.
On June 23 2012 15:50 schmutttt wrote: Do people still think Garen is viable top? Played him vs Irelia the other day and crushed her, sure his late game makes him basically a blob of hp but his damage early/mid is still crazy good, and he is still damn hard to kill.
I'd probably only play him vs a few select tops as he is still an average champ, but was wondering what the better players on here have to say.
On June 23 2012 15:50 schmutttt wrote: Do people still think Garen is viable top? Played him vs Irelia the other day and crushed her, sure his late game makes him basically a blob of hp but his damage early/mid is still crazy good, and he is still damn hard to kill.
I'd probably only play him vs a few select tops as he is still an average champ, but was wondering what the better players on here have to say.
I've been playing him a bunch lately just for variety. His laning is very strong against anyone that has to get up close to him, and weak to those who don't. His lategame isn't the greatest but it's honestly not bad at all so long as you build some AD. All you need is Randuin's or Frozen Mallet + Bloodthirster and you'll remain relevant later.
In regards to vs Darius comparison, I haven't played as Darius yet but Garen does have a few advantages over him. Notably: - Garen has some sustain (passive) - Garen is much tankier (Courage is REALLY good + higher base HP) - Garen does much more AoE damage (Judgement is 630 + 4.2*AD vs Decimate 315 + 1.05*AD)
Overall Darius is probably better, he isn't better across the board.
On June 24 2012 07:29 Alzadar wrote: - Garen does much more AoE damage (Judgement is 630 + 4.2*AD vs Decimate 315 + 1.05*AD)
This is a pretty inaccurate comparison; Decimate has half the cooldown, larger radius, does its damage instantly vs. over 3 seconds, and applies bleed for an extra 36+0.3AD. Judgement is still more damage against a single target but since you have to stick to targets for 3 seconds and the radius is so piddly I feel like it's probably less damage overall in the average teamfight.
On June 24 2012 07:29 Alzadar wrote: - Garen does much more AoE damage (Judgement is 630 + 4.2*AD vs Decimate 315 + 1.05*AD)
This is a pretty inaccurate comparison; Decimate has half the cooldown, larger radius, does its damage instantly vs. over 3 seconds, and applies bleed for an extra 36+0.3AD. Judgement is still more damage against a single target but since you have to stick to targets for 3 seconds and the radius is so piddly I feel like it's probably less damage overall in the average teamfight.
You don't play garen to hit their entire team with a spin, you play garen to Q-->E-->R someone and make it a 5v4 for your team.
A pretty large problem is that when someone does the armor runebuild(flat armor marks, seals, quints, glyphs) and starts cloth, they can just bully you off the lane no matter what, pretty much. At least they can laugh in your face as you try to harrass them.
Also judgement vs Decimate is a very silly comparison, it's like you forgot that Darius can auto after using Decimate.
Well xypherous did a lot of answering community questions on the Garen remake. He's supposed to be able to scale better now.
Also he says top lane is poisonous because it's too snowbally.
Garen's getting number tweaks. Mostly he does less max damage and more minimum damage. His silence is shorter. His Q gives 35% movespeed instead of 15% but only lasts 1.5 seconds instead of 4. His E lasts shorter and has a lower ratio. It still avoids minion collision but now garen gets slowed moving through minions 20%. His Q now has the slow reduction. His W lasts 1second less(2 seconds) but adds more armor than the old one as soon as you get some armor and mr. And his ult is now going to be the highest cooldown ult in the game at rank 1? No more spin ult bug.
I'm just going to call that garen's going to be easier to kite. Can't believe I was scared for a second.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j174/vegaobscura7/speed.png)
