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My goodness OP is out of date. I don't normally play Veigar but I spent about 15-17 straight games on him this week and I've got a few observations that might be helpful to anyone who wants to know what their options are if they play him. Obviously take this advice with a grain of salt. I'm not seasoned with him but I certainly would have benefited from knowing what I do now when I first picked him up this week.
- E (stun) gets one point, no more until your damage spells are done. You should avoid trying to kill people with merc treads (and irelia, what a bitch). You should be able to land W with a one point E on anyone who doesn't have merc treads.
- You can cut a few levels on your Q to max your W earlier, I stop at lv3 or 4 on Q to cap W.
- If you decide not to get Strength of Spirit, for God's sake get an HP regen item. I like Faerie Charm, Rejuve Bead + 1 HP pot to start, then B for Philo Stone.
- Winning a solo lane as veigar is incredibly difficult, avoid taking the solo lane. Wasting Qs on harass makes him a sad yordle.
- Soraka is my favorite bro for a duo lane, she doesn't jack my last hits, can reduce magic resist of enemies, gives me mana, and keeps my HP up.
Opening Item Builds:
- Strength of Spirit - Mana Crystal + HP Pot x2
- No Strength of Spirit - Faerie Charm, Rejuve Bead (or more pots), HP Pot x1. Try to not get forced to B till you can afford Philo Stone.
Lategame Items. Build survivability as needed. AP Item order is non-negotiable. Once you get accustomed to using the DFG with your burst combo you'll never go back.
- Boots - Sorcerer's
- First AP Item - Deathfire Grasp.
- Second AP Item - Deathcap
- Third AP Item - Void Staff
- First Survivability Item - Banshee's Veil
- Second Survivability Item - Zhonya's Hourglass
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I do:
Spell pen reds for early game offense (pre mercs treads)
MP5 blues/yellows
HP quints
Start with sapphire and two pots.
I definitely will take a solo lane (unless there are two superior solos or I'm completely mismatched) with Veigar maxing Q out first (1 point in each though)). I can't stand sharing a lane with someone who doesn't let you last hit use Q and it's rare for a random person to let me do this in peace. I think having 50+ AP after like ~10 minutes from creeps alone is worth taking a solo. Again, this is situational and sometimes I will give up the solo.
I stay in lane as long as possible and shoot for catalyst and boots on first buy. 2nd buy is usually a pick and completed boots. I will opt for mercs treads most of the time as I think they are much more worthwhile. Late game 20 MR pen doesn't mean much especially since you will get a void staff most likely (since the flat MR reduction from boots and runes comes into play before the % reduction, sorcs boots end up being only a 10 MR reduction once you have a void staff along with the mastery).
I start harassing once I have catalyst and Q maxed (level 9) if they don't have any MR, otherwise I just keep working up my AP.
RoA
DFG
Deathcap
And then void staff once their squishies grab MR
Banshee's if they are AP heavy
Hourglass if they are AD heavy
I also gamble with soulstealer a lot of games. If I get full items late game and I have less than 10 stacks at that point, I'll sell it and grab whatever I need.
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So after having lots of fun with veigar and rolling 7-1 in ranked around 1500 ELO EU...
Is there any way of NOT LOSING LANE HORRIBLY VS ANYONE NOT RETARDED FFS?
Solo top is no chance at all vs all those irelias/chos/reneks/jarmans since they all can just ignore you and push tower.
Mid: Malz/Vlad/TF destroy you, kassa gets a beating and anivia is kinda even. Didn't fight annie yet but expect it to go okay.
Bot with soraka while cool just means your tower dies to cait/mf+janna lanes.
Personally I basicly go 0-1 to 0-3 in every game, then carry once DFG is there and teamfights start. As soon as you get your NLR and sorcboots you start instapopping squishies with full combo. BUT BEFORE THAT OMFG WHAT TO DO?
Also personally lategame (post-void) I get CDR boots instead of sorc and upgrade philo to elaisas vs those longrange silencers.
PS: I don't even want to win the lane by killing someone. I'm fine with staying somewhat even in CS and not dieing/losing turret. Possible?
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Maybe try Flash/Exhaust Summoners
HP Quints and/or HP/LvL Yellows
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I still use HP quints on a lot of champs. I just hate having 450-500 starting hp zzzz
Can open cloth + 5 pots. Even if you never use the cloth armor to build into anything it's totally worth it. Or faire charm + mass health pots and get a philo stone. Both really defensive openings but if they help you live in lane and farm all's good.
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I agree with badpaladin. Fairycharm + 8pot is pretty good especially if you run hp quints
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I played with a veigar that did the same things each games, very weird build
he first gives out first blood, then give second blood, sometimes even third and then go legendary
i any of the above fails, we usually lose
can't really remember his sumoner name, it begins with a c and ends with a sheep
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On June 02 2011 03:02 rwrzr wrote:
I agree with badpaladin. Fairycharm + 8pot is pretty good especially if you run hp quints
Since I keep getting a bleeding nose with rejuv+fairy+pot ima try that one, thanks. =)
Wha I'm not sure about personall is the item order.
Philo -> Lucky -> DFG -> Deathcap -> Void seems to scale great with 0 survivability.
Philo -> Cata -> Lucky -> Deathcap -> DFG -> Banshees seems to kick in late as hell (doesnt feel like a master of evil until after Deathcap)
Probably have to mix it up depending on how much hurt they can put out early.
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Baa?21248 Posts
Can't get Philo and Cata and then Deathcap on Veigar unless you're doing nothing but lane unti level 18, you'll do no damage in the mid game when you're at your strongest. I don't even like Cata on Veigar at all for laning. I still stick with Meki Pendant -> DFG most of the time.
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I go meki to tear then i either pickup a early death cap or finsh off AA staff. I'm not a fan of DFG and just like getting over 300AP by 20min.
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Baa?21248 Posts
Getting Archangels first is like the worst thing you can do on Veigar. And if you know how to farm you should have 300 AP by 20min anyways.
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DFG is mathematically better than deathcap damage-wise for cost. It also has the added bonus of CDR + gives you another nuke every 60 seconds, essentially a 2nd ultimate. Deathcap does make all AP items you buy afterwards more cost effective but you want that extra damage you'd get from DFG asap and THEN grab deathcap. I don't mind grabbing an early tear but early archangels no way in hell. That's just bad to me on ANY champion.....
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Baa?21248 Posts
Sometimes, if I foresee laning going on for a long time against someone I'm not gonna be able to kill, I can see the merits of Tear + Deathcap before DFG just to have more sustained damage in lane. But 90% of th time DFG first is better.
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My best luck with veigar has been of beefy sorts-
flash+whatever
open faerie/bluecrystal+hp pots
9/0/21
qeqw r>q>e>w
Whatever runes, mpen reds only mandatory. Wouldn't run ap18 blues or flat ap quints.
Movespeed or hp quints are best choices.
philo(optional)->boots1->cata-> then in any order: banshees, shurelyas, cdr boots->void. Fairly cheap build, fairly tanky, puts him up at 39% cdr without blue. Go sorcs if you feel like whoring blue.
DFG overated. Tanky stunbot where its at.
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On June 02 2011 16:01 TL Blazeraid wrote:
My best luck with veigar has been of beefy sorts-
flash+whatever
open faerie/bluecrystal+hp pots
9/0/21
qeqw r>q>e>w
Whatever runes, mpen reds only mandatory. Wouldn't run ap18 blues or flat ap quints.
Movespeed or hp quints are best choices.
philo(optional)->boots1->cata-> then in any order: banshees, shurelyas, cdr boots->void. Fairly cheap build, fairly tanky, puts him up at 39% cdr without blue. Go sorcs if you feel like whoring blue.
DFG overated. Tanky stunbot where its at.
So in midgame while you throw a stun and hope someone uses it well the other AP carry will do damage and kill stuff? How does it work out?
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On June 02 2011 06:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Can't get Philo and Cata and then Deathcap on Veigar unless you're doing nothing but lane unti level 18, you'll do no damage in the mid game when you're at your strongest. I don't even like Cata on Veigar at all for laning. I still stick with Meki Pendant -> DFG most of the time.
I guess you are counting on no one ever trying to kill you or gank you or even touch you in lane. Veigar is already weak in lane, and building no laning items is gonna make that even worse. You could at least get a philo stone, it's very cheap anyway and super cost effective.
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Ill put sometime in to use items. I always forget to use my items in LoL. I'm really used to HoN style items and i stayed away from most use items expect consumables. Going to see how powerful this DFG really is
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Wut? HoN has wayyy more active items (like you always gonna have some pretty much) compared to LoL.
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Baa?21248 Posts
On June 03 2011 00:39 Goshawk. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Can't get Philo and Cata and then Deathcap on Veigar unless you're doing nothing but lane unti level 18, you'll do no damage in the mid game when you're at your strongest. I don't even like Cata on Veigar at all for laning. I still stick with Meki Pendant -> DFG most of the time. I guess you are counting on no one ever trying to kill you or gank you or even touch you in lane. Veigar is already weak in lane, and building no laning items is gonna make that even worse. You could at least get a philo stone, it's very cheap anyway and super cost effective.
I've been trying Philo stone lately, it's usually not bad. I just really dislike Catalyst on Veigar because he's so mana hungry, and the regen from Catalyst is not actually enough to keep up with his costs. The thing is, other champions that you get Cata on have some sort of innate mana regen that far surpasses Veigar's passive (Annie, Malzahar to an extent, Karthus, etc.).
When ganks come, it's usually just a matter of using stun and possibly usign summoners to get out. Honestly, dying in lane as Veigar is not an uncommon occurrence, but if you can keep up in farm by having good mana regen and Q consistently, you still can turn it around on them when you et your DFG. Veigar's burst is just so strong in the early mid game, when he first gets DFG/level 2 ult, that I think it's worth coming out behind in lane to ensure that burst.
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I have returned after a 4 month hiatus.
Will probably update the OP at some point, but atm I honestly prefer Cass to Veigar. It may take a while.
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EPT
