EPT[Champion] Swain - Page 10
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
I've played with a swain in soloq who claimed to be a very experienced swain player. He got fed early and built roa, wota, dc into the mid-lategame, but didn't manage to really be a huge presence. With this setup he was not tanky enough to really soak up any damage and he didn't really do alot of damage with his ult because of that. Kinda sitting on the back with his high cooldowns and using ult when he got dived, dying to ignite + burst was all he was able to contribute. AP carries who deal sustained/poke damage or burst AoE/ very high burst ST can do well with such a squishy build because they don't rely meleeing bruisers. Swain is certainly not one of them. On regular AP carries I focus on getting damage and add defense when I can spare the gold. On regular Bruisers I do the opposite: focussing on defense and get in damage as I can squeeze it in. With Swain I do the latter. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
Focusing more on defense is perfectly fine on him imo. He does not need a lot of ap to hit like a truck. Tag someone with e and unload everything on them and they go down pretty quick. My own preference on building him is pretty much boots+3>cata>rod>zhonyas. After that, it depends on how the game is going. If I'm fed and killing everything, I usually go for a DC to insure that I keep killing everything. If I find myself getting focused a lot or they have a lot of magic damage, I grab a SV or Abyssal. If you also have a Kennen/Vlad/Rumble and see that they got a wota, you should consider grabbing one as well, just because double wota is stupid. Grail will also be an item of great usefulness, especially if you decided to grab a cup during lane. And of course a Void should be one of your last items if they are stacking a lot of mr. Basically, there isn't one distinct way to build him(outside of rod>zhonya's imo). You really need to observe how the game is going and anticipate how it will play out. How farmed/fed is everyone, how late the game is, it all matters. There are so many items that can go on this guy, it really boils down to your judgment and experience in playing him. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On August 22 2012 07:03 zulu_nation8 wrote: he carries very hard.. he also snowballs harder than like every AP The problem is that he is mostly damage over time. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Craton
United States17282 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On August 22 2012 07:12 zulu_nation8 wrote: what does that have to do with anything? dots are not good vs people with life steal. I hate whenever I go after adcs in a team fight, only to have them life steal through part of my damage. When they have ie, bt, pd(s) it becomes very difficult to kill them. Usually have to rely on someone with hard cc holding them down for you. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On August 22 2012 08:39 Cloud9157 wrote: dots are not good vs people with life steal. I hate whenever I go after adcs in a team fight, only to have them life steal through part of my damage. When they have ie, bt, pd(s) it becomes very difficult to kill them. Usually have to rely on someone with hard cc holding them down for you. nice post count!  yeah I guess I should have tried to concentrate more my ad carry during teamfights. Swain is very, very good at protecting them if you are aware of it. But I figured Swain does not hard carry by default, even if fed early on. You have to be smart about what you do in lategame and how you fight and not just cawcaw into them when noct ults on your carry. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Swain doesn't start teamfights explosively. If you want to do that, pick Annie or Brand. What Swain does is live forever and do stupid amounts of damage. You are not protecting your team's carry - you ARE your team's carry. Also, I still think that Rod of Ages is a pretty crappy item for Swain. Resists and damage are much more important. The mana pool is nice, but I'd rather leave catalyst alone (if I buy it at all) and just get Zhonya's Hourglass faster. | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
If you're up against anyone who can push a lane moderately well then best of fucking luck as every second you don't have blue buff is crippling essentially meaning you have to either never leave your lane, blow a large portion of your mana to clear the wave before going or let your turret take the hits during which time your opponent is ganking your teams lanes or robbing your wraiths. When ganking he's nothing like an Ahri, TF or LB, if their top or bot lane are pushing they'll still be able to get out fine with standard ward positioning and basic reflexes, your best hope is their stupidity or counter ganking. So, in my opinion while he can be fun to play occasionally and can snowball stupidly hard he doesn't really dominate in lane, doesn't have the ganking power and mobility like many other mid champs do and while having a fair amount of cc still not as strong or as much as other mids. To me that's why he gets so little use in competitive play and isn't exactly a go to champ for carrying yourself through solo queue, jack of all trades, master of none. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On August 23 2012 14:45 MVTaylor wrote: When he gets god like farm he can carry like a mother fucker and going golden raven mode when on 10% HP to come out of it at 50% with 2 kills is maximum troll mode but he just seems lacking everywhere else. If you're up against anyone who can push a lane moderately well then best of fucking luck as every second you don't have blue buff is crippling essentially meaning you have to either never leave your lane, blow a large portion of your mana to clear the wave before going or let your turret take the hits during which time your opponent is ganking your teams lanes or robbing your wraiths. When ganking he's nothing like an Ahri, TF or LB, if their top or bot lane are pushing they'll still be able to get out fine with standard ward positioning and basic reflexes, your best hope is their stupidity or counter ganking. So, in my opinion while he can be fun to play occasionally and can snowball stupidly hard he doesn't really dominate in lane, doesn't have the ganking power and mobility like many other mid champs do and while having a fair amount of cc still not as strong or as much as other mids. To me that's why he gets so little use in competitive play and isn't exactly a go to champ for carrying yourself through solo queue, jack of all trades, master of none. Really? I am always under the impression that he can dominate a lane quite easily once he is a little ahead - because of his stupid sustain via R. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
A fed Swain can very well assassinate in the midgame thanks to the power of Torment, especially squishies, but the thing is—after the assassination, he's still probably got all of his kit except for W available on short notice, ready to trash somebody else (who's already lost some HP through your ult). He's a dueling/teamfighting champion, not an assassin, nor a roamer. Everybody doesn't get to be Lebonk, 'happens. You just have to keep this in mind when you build your teamcomp. Or you just send him top and go all "Sorry Vlad, I'm liking that spot, now please leave me alone". Regarding RoA, it's simple: resistances are cool. Stacking them without HP and getting killed before your ult can kick in is not. Kinda the same as Mundo where you need a HP buffer for your ult to start ticking before you die. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Also Swain has been my goto pick against Diana. Punishes her extremely well pre-6, and post 6 you are relatively safe from all-ins. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On August 23 2012 20:05 Amui wrote: I think RoA is too good to pass up. He uses every stat in RoA extremely well, and the buildup is extremely good for laning. The addition of grail into the game just makes him a monster. Also Swain has been my goto pick against Diana. Punishes her extremely well pre-6, and post 6 you are relatively safe from all-ins. the swain vs diana matchup has a some weaknesses though. diana naturally pushes through Q poke and her passive without wasting mana for it. this makes her vulnerable to ganks but your jungler is not your personal laning bodyguard so you can't ever count on him to come at exactly the right moment. So diana will most likely be able to gain quite some farm and mapcontrol if she hits some Qs on you. you need to litterally bait out and dodge her Qs to do good trades and you need be on spot with your CSing (because the lane is pushing to your turret). It is also very easy for her to mitigate your E and Q damage in lane with her shield since they all dots, so even if she isn't spot on with her reaction she will tank quite alot of it's damage. | ||
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