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[Champion] Swain - Page 9

Forum Index > LoL Strategy
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Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 Next All
Haasts
Profile Joined October 2011
New Zealand4445 Posts
May 28 2012 18:29 GMT
#161
Any particular streamers (or VODs thereof) of decent mid Swain players? Anyone found a way to work Athene's Unholy Grail into their builds, or still fairly standard Hourglass/DCap/Void Staff/misc?
PaniaoftheReef in Path of Exile TotA SSF SC // Lovelin fanclub // GreenTea #1
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
May 28 2012 18:37 GMT
#162
RoA/Grail/tanky ap stuff. Fight forever.

Put in chalice earlier if you really need the MR, otherwise finish RoA ASAP since it's time sensitive.

Always cawcawcaw never not cawcawcaw.
TranslatorBaa!
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
May 29 2012 00:40 GMT
#163
Regarding tenacity, how is Q considered? Is it a fixed slow on top of the DoT, affected by tenacity, or is it a permaslow applied by the DoT, and hence not reduced?
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
May 29 2012 07:58 GMT
#164
Each tick of damage applies the slow. Tenacity reduces the duration of the last tick, but not significantly. It's basically a permaslow.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
HughMyron
Profile Joined April 2012
297 Posts
May 30 2012 01:29 GMT
#165
Thinking of buying this dude on my smurf once I finish my AP page. I remember I had some great times with him back in the day.

RoA/Abby/FH is my favored build.
Platinum III, Kayle/Janna/Ashe Fanboy, HUEHUEHUE
GhostOwl
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
766 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-30 02:48:05
May 30 2012 02:28 GMT
#166
Would spirit visage (or whatever its called) increased healing % help Swain?

Is there a build I could do that lets him tank the entire enemy team, and regain health constantly enough to the point where you never die? And enough mana to let him do this for a long time?
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-30 05:06:49
May 30 2012 04:51 GMT
#167
On May 30 2012 11:28 GhostOwl wrote:
Would spirit visage (or whatever its called) increased healing % help Swain?

Is there a build I could do that lets him tank the entire enemy team, and regain health constantly enough to the point where you never die? And enough mana to let him do this for a long time?


Aside from just being really really fed and the other team not having Ignite? No, that would be broken as all hell.

That being said something to the effect of Zhonya's, Abyssal, Athenes, RoA, Ninja Tabis/Mercs, and Deathcap would make you tanky as balls, hit like a truck, and solve most of your mana issues.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
May 30 2012 08:02 GMT
#168
That's how I've been building him the few games I tried to practice him back to shape, but I've found that I don't build rabaddon. It's not that I don't want to, it's just that Zhonya's too good to pass up, and then Grail/Abyssal are tempting sources of MR, both with their own reasons. I could probably just grab the negatron (leaving it open to QSS later if people like to chain-cc burst me before I can use zhonya) and complete rabaddon before I finish abyssal/build grail, tho.

Thanks Tooplark btw.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-31 00:11:52
May 31 2012 00:11 GMT
#169
Spirit Visage does boost Swain's healing from ult.
If you want to maximize tankiness, Spirit Visage, WotA, and efficient armor/mr items are the way to go. This has problems, however, in that you don't really contribute much to teamfights except for however much damage you absorb, and you aren't threatening enough to be the target of much damage. Balancing tankiness with AP is the most challenging part to playing Swain. Zhonya's Hourglass lets you go much heavier on the AP, and is core in any AP-centric build. RoA is an extremely efficient combination of stats and should be purchased as early as possible on a tankier Swain.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Skithiryx
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia648 Posts
July 26 2012 03:14 GMT
#170
So went through a few pages and didn't see much on it, but I'm wondering on the merit of 3 Spellvamp quints in place of flat AP, 15 ap v 6% spellvamp given swains slightly lower ratios would seem to always work out in the Spellvamps favour no?

Not sure...
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-26 06:05:34
July 26 2012 06:05 GMT
#171
On July 26 2012 12:14 Skithiryx wrote:
So went through a few pages and didn't see much on it, but I'm wondering on the merit of 3 Spellvamp quints in place of flat AP, 15 ap v 6% spellvamp given swains slightly lower ratios would seem to always work out in the Spellvamps favour no?

Not sure...


? Swain's ratios are actually extremely high, they're just all DOT.

Ignoring the E amplification, he has .9 Q .7 W .8 E and .6 R With E he has 1/close to 1 ratios on three of his skills, and his ult is 3 birds every second...
TranslatorBaa!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 26 2012 06:08 GMT
#172
On July 26 2012 15:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 12:14 Skithiryx wrote:
So went through a few pages and didn't see much on it, but I'm wondering on the merit of 3 Spellvamp quints in place of flat AP, 15 ap v 6% spellvamp given swains slightly lower ratios would seem to always work out in the Spellvamps favour no?

Not sure...


? Swain's ratios are actually extremely high, they're just all DOT.

Ignoring the E amplification, he has .9 Q .7 W .8 E and .6 R With E he has 1/close to 1 ratios on three of his skills, and his ult is 3 birds every second...


Don't forget long cooldown.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
July 26 2012 06:09 GMT
#173
On July 26 2012 15:08 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 15:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On July 26 2012 12:14 Skithiryx wrote:
So went through a few pages and didn't see much on it, but I'm wondering on the merit of 3 Spellvamp quints in place of flat AP, 15 ap v 6% spellvamp given swains slightly lower ratios would seem to always work out in the Spellvamps favour no?

Not sure...


? Swain's ratios are actually extremely high, they're just all DOT.

Ignoring the E amplification, he has .9 Q .7 W .8 E and .6 R With E he has 1/close to 1 ratios on three of his skills, and his ult is 3 birds every second...


Don't forget long cooldown.


That is a detriment to spellvamp then just as much as AP so I don't really see the relevance..?
TranslatorBaa!
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
July 26 2012 06:10 GMT
#174
Just wondering, is spellvamp a good item on Swain? I know his Q+E are full spellvamp and his W is reduced spellvamp. How about his R?

I tried him the other day and I went RoA->Abyssal. Then Zhonyas, Grail. Was thinking about working towards either dcap or void staff as last item (it was a 50+ minute game). I did okay, but laning was a pain against Morg since she could push me to tower and roam, while I struggled to clear creep 'til 6. I went R>E>W>Q.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-26 06:23:32
July 26 2012 06:17 GMT
#175
On July 26 2012 15:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 15:08 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 26 2012 15:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On July 26 2012 12:14 Skithiryx wrote:
So went through a few pages and didn't see much on it, but I'm wondering on the merit of 3 Spellvamp quints in place of flat AP, 15 ap v 6% spellvamp given swains slightly lower ratios would seem to always work out in the Spellvamps favour no?

Not sure...


? Swain's ratios are actually extremely high, they're just all DOT.

Ignoring the E amplification, he has .9 Q .7 W .8 E and .6 R With E he has 1/close to 1 ratios on three of his skills, and his ult is 3 birds every second...


Don't forget long cooldown.


That is a detriment to spellvamp then just as much as AP so I don't really see the relevance..?


Of course that's important. That's like asking why not use spellvamp quaints on LeBlanc.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
July 26 2012 06:18 GMT
#176
On July 26 2012 15:10 Ryuu314 wrote:
Just wondering, is spellvamp a good item on Swain? I know his Q+E are full spellvamp and his W is reduced spellvamp. How about his R?

I tried him the other day and I went RoA->Abyssal. Then Zhonyas, Grail. Was thinking about working towards either dcap or void staff as last item (it was a 50+ minute game). I did okay, but laning was a pain against Morg since she could push me to tower and roam, while I struggled to clear creep 'til 6. I went R>E>W>Q.


His ult is considered AOE for spell vamp and Rylai purposes.

Spell vamp is cute and fun to screw around with but honestly you get more mileage out of just building hp and resists alongside your ap. I'm not really a fan of spell vamp on him, especially after wota got nerfed. You're just paying a lot for very little benefit compared to what you're giving up.
TranslatorBaa!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
July 26 2012 06:25 GMT
#177
On July 26 2012 15:10 Ryuu314 wrote:
Just wondering, is spellvamp a good item on Swain? I know his Q+E are full spellvamp and his W is reduced spellvamp. How about his R?

I tried him the other day and I went RoA->Abyssal. Then Zhonyas, Grail. Was thinking about working towards either dcap or void staff as last item (it was a 50+ minute game). I did okay, but laning was a pain against Morg since she could push me to tower and roam, while I struggled to clear creep 'til 6. I went R>E>W>Q.


Actually, his Q/E both have reduced spellvamp because they are DoT. In fact, all of his spells have diminishing returns with spellvamp.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
July 26 2012 06:29 GMT
#178
On July 26 2012 15:25 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 15:10 Ryuu314 wrote:
Just wondering, is spellvamp a good item on Swain? I know his Q+E are full spellvamp and his W is reduced spellvamp. How about his R?

I tried him the other day and I went RoA->Abyssal. Then Zhonyas, Grail. Was thinking about working towards either dcap or void staff as last item (it was a 50+ minute game). I did okay, but laning was a pain against Morg since she could push me to tower and roam, while I struggled to clear creep 'til 6. I went R>E>W>Q.


Actually, his Q/E both have reduced spellvamp because they are DoT. In fact, all of his spells have diminishing returns with spellvamp.

eh? wiki says the exact opposite.

Damage over time abilities (DoT) apply full spell vamp. (e.g. Brand's Blaze and Malzahar's Malefic Visions).

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_vamp
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
July 26 2012 06:32 GMT
#179
On July 26 2012 15:17 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 15:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On July 26 2012 15:08 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 26 2012 15:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On July 26 2012 12:14 Skithiryx wrote:
So went through a few pages and didn't see much on it, but I'm wondering on the merit of 3 Spellvamp quints in place of flat AP, 15 ap v 6% spellvamp given swains slightly lower ratios would seem to always work out in the Spellvamps favour no?

Not sure...


? Swain's ratios are actually extremely high, they're just all DOT.

Ignoring the E amplification, he has .9 Q .7 W .8 E and .6 R With E he has 1/close to 1 ratios on three of his skills, and his ult is 3 birds every second...


Don't forget long cooldown.


That is a detriment to spellvamp then just as much as AP so I don't really see the relevance..?


Of course that's important. That's like asking why not use spellvamp quaints on LeBlanc.


The argument was "low ap ratios therefore spell vamp > ap," i say "ap ratios are high" and you counter with "ya but long cooldowns;" that adversely affects spellvamp just as much as ap ratios, so i don't see the relevance.

Also DOT single target spells 100% apply full spell vamp...
TranslatorBaa!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-26 06:37:14
July 26 2012 06:35 GMT
#180
On July 26 2012 15:29 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 15:25 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 26 2012 15:10 Ryuu314 wrote:
Just wondering, is spellvamp a good item on Swain? I know his Q+E are full spellvamp and his W is reduced spellvamp. How about his R?

I tried him the other day and I went RoA->Abyssal. Then Zhonyas, Grail. Was thinking about working towards either dcap or void staff as last item (it was a 50+ minute game). I did okay, but laning was a pain against Morg since she could push me to tower and roam, while I struggled to clear creep 'til 6. I went R>E>W>Q.


Actually, his Q/E both have reduced spellvamp because they are DoT. In fact, all of his spells have diminishing returns with spellvamp.

eh? wiki says the exact opposite.

Show nested quote +
Damage over time abilities (DoT) apply full spell vamp. (e.g. Brand's Blaze and Malzahar's Malefic Visions).

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_vamp


Ugh. For the whole time I thought it was reduced =\. I blame the wording on the wiki.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Swain_the_Master_Tactician/Ability_Details

Decrepify procs spell vamp and Rylai's slow similarly with all damage over time spells and abilities with diminished effect.



On July 26 2012 15:32 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 15:17 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 26 2012 15:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On July 26 2012 15:08 Sufficiency wrote:
On July 26 2012 15:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On July 26 2012 12:14 Skithiryx wrote:
So went through a few pages and didn't see much on it, but I'm wondering on the merit of 3 Spellvamp quints in place of flat AP, 15 ap v 6% spellvamp given swains slightly lower ratios would seem to always work out in the Spellvamps favour no?

Not sure...


? Swain's ratios are actually extremely high, they're just all DOT.

Ignoring the E amplification, he has .9 Q .7 W .8 E and .6 R With E he has 1/close to 1 ratios on three of his skills, and his ult is 3 birds every second...


Don't forget long cooldown.


That is a detriment to spellvamp then just as much as AP so I don't really see the relevance..?


Of course that's important. That's like asking why not use spellvamp quaints on LeBlanc.


The argument was "low ap ratios therefore spell vamp > ap," i say "ap ratios are high" and you counter with "ya but long cooldowns;" that adversely affects spellvamp just as much as ap ratios, so i don't see the relevance.

Also DOT single target spells 100% apply full spell vamp...


Spellvamp's effectiveness has to do with DPS. AP ratio plays a part in this, but cooldown also needs to be considered.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
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