EPTAlso, Swain's lvl 6 burst is a lot more substantial than most people seem to think. You can easily get kills if you land a W and then dive them bird mode with EQ+ignite.
[Champion] Swain - Page 7
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
Also, Swain's lvl 6 burst is a lot more substantial than most people seem to think. You can easily get kills if you land a W and then dive them bird mode with EQ+ignite. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On February 09 2012 12:12 ManyCookies wrote: Been playing around with WOTA. On the one hand, it's quite fun pretending to be the old Swain (I wasn't there, but how on earth was he not considered overpowered?), plus the heal on Q and E is fairly substantial. Not really sure if it's worth 2100 gold out of Hourglass or whatever though. I refuse to run WOTA unless I have another mage top/mid that will benefit from it like Kennen/Vlad/Kat. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Then I did the math and realized that RoA->DC gave me more healing (on the ult, didn't calculate with QWE thrown in), as well as more damage. Welp, no brainer for me now. Isn't Swain a bit weak in the laning phase right now tho? Champs with strong ranged harass like GP probably outharass him, he can't really stop a Nasus from farming (and will get killed later if he ever tries to commit because of Wither), and there are more and more popular bruisers with gap closers (Riven, etc.). Which popular top picks is he strong against now? I heard Kennen, there's also Tryndamere, Shyvana and perhaps Udyr (can't catch him, but he can turtle even after getting it and mitigate a lot), who else? Also, sorcs vs mercs? Against champs like Annie getting 40+ AP with a dring opener, I feel like flat MR blues + mercs is better than scaling AP blues+sorcs. And I think Ziggs should shit all over Swain. Huge gap in range between the two, mana efficiency at clearing for Ziggs, his passive makes it undesirable to trade hits with him while Swain would like too because of Torment, also Ziggs pushes really easily while Swain doesn't really. If you can't burst him he'll just lay his minefield and use his bump to prevent you from following him. | ||
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InvaderUK
225 Posts
On February 09 2012 18:35 Alaric wrote: Isn't Swain a bit weak in the laning phase right now tho? Champs with strong ranged harass like GP probably outharass him, he can't really stop a Nasus from farming (and will get killed later if he ever tries to commit because of Wither), and there are more and more popular bruisers with gap closers (Riven, etc.). Which popular top picks is he strong against now? I heard Kennen, there's also Tryndamere, Shyvana and perhaps Udyr (can't catch him, but he can turtle even after getting it and mitigate a lot), who else? I thought Swain was one of the strongest top laners? At least that's how it seemed when I used to play him alot, granted I have not played him much recently. I still take him vs melee mid champs such as grag and sion and do very well as it is hard for them to retaliate vs your harass, I would imagine it the same for top lane. The weakness of playing swain top lane would be the lack of escape and that you would be pushing lane vs these melee champs if you are denying them, making him more susceptible to ganks. I'll have to play swain a little more now to get back to you on matchups, this thread has revived my interest in him. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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HardCorey
United States709 Posts
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InvaderUK
225 Posts
Also yeah the wordplay on slain and swain is always a good one for TS | ||
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
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InvaderUK
225 Posts
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petered
United States1817 Posts
On February 10 2012 00:12 ManyCookies wrote: I prefer the Swain Train. It runs off my Swainger and Blue Buffs. So you are basically saying to not be cRaven. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On February 09 2012 23:28 Alaric wrote: It's not that his harass isn't effective, it's that what good will your Q slow do to Riven if she can just E->W to you then wreck you with some aa? Udyr possibly wouldn't be able to reach you (But bear cd beats crow cd, and turtle's shield negates your DoT), but champs with instant gap-closers would ignore your slow and doge your snare, so I'm wondering how good he's supposed to still do against them. Riven is pretty annoying since she can move through Q fairly easily. I would try to snare her during her combo so she is stuck eating the entire Q. Udyr doesn't have that big of a mana pool. If he wants to constantly switch stances to try and hurt you, he can go ahead and try. Turtle shield won't negate all the damage from an E+Q combo either. Champs with insta gap closing need to be handled a bit more differently. Irelia and Renekton, for example, need to be hit with E and then Q if they try to jump on you. I always try and hit them with Nevermove first, and then tag lazorbird on them, so I have plenty of time to walk away while they sit there eating plenty of damage. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On February 09 2012 23:28 Alaric wrote: It's not that his harass isn't effective, it's that what good will your Q slow do to Riven if she can just E->W to you then wreck you with some aa? Udyr possibly wouldn't be able to reach you (But bear cd beats crow cd, and turtle's shield negates your DoT), but champs with instant gap-closers would ignore your slow and doge your snare, so I'm wondering how good he's supposed to still do against them. Riven shouldn't be getting close enough to Q combo towards you. If she gets too close you EQW her. But yeah, you have to be more careful against her and other melees who can close gaps but Swain still does fine in lane against gap closer melees. Udyr will take damage he just has lane sustain. But you're Swain, you have lane sustain too and post-6 I think Swain's lane sustain is a lot better than Udyr. I think that GP is scary early but once you have levels Swain can handle GP in lane imo. Just have to be a bit more pussy at early levels. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Let's weigh the items that people are discussing: Rod of Ages Gives you a solid hp pool, a nice mana pool, and a decent amount of hp, as well as a good passive for laning. Archangel's Staff Gives you a vast mana pool and beefy regen, and a large chunk of ap. Will of the Ancients Gives you AP, spellvamp, and aura for comparatively low price. Rabadon's Deathcap Gives you buckets of AP. Zhonya's Hourglass AP, armor and a totally godlike active on swain. The problem with RoA is you already have a supr huge health pool if you don't get bursted down immediately, it takes a while to stack up and isn't even that great when stacked, and you aren't going to do enough damage to be a target. The problem with Archangels is that it lends itself to you being bursted down immediately. (and you're not getting nearly enough AP for the price). Deathcap and Zhonyas both leave you with too low of a mana pool. Solution: Catalyst or Tear into Deathcap/Zhonyas! But, if I get catalyst and don't build it into RoA first thing, isn't that SUBOPTIMAL? No, because you build it into Banshee's for the MR or, if they have nothing that you really want to block with banshee, sell it to buy Quicksilver Sash. Is Catalyst really enough hp to stop me from being instagibbed? Yes. You're wrong, I keep getting instagibbed! Stop being out of position or get an actual tank to absorb damage. If they have chumpsassins like Talon or Akali, rush Zhonyas and as soon as they jump on you QWERzhonya them. In an emergency just RWZhonya. My spells are so short ranged, how do I get close enough to the enemy ranged carry to burst them? Pick a different mage. I keep getting ignited and/or stunned before I ult or zhonya and then I die and get sad! Buy QSS. The enemy team keeps killing me with their combined dps! Use zhonyas better, position yourself better. Focusing Swain should both be a bad idea because he'll just heal it off with ult and necessary because he does so much damage. I WANNA WANNA SPELLVAMP You can buy WotA instead of Deathcap, but you won't do ludicrous amounts of damage. You want to do ludicrous amounts of damage, right? More seriously, I like running swain in a double AP comp with someone who doesn't need blue (Kennen, Vlad, Rumble) because 1) they're usually better at picking off carries, 2) they pick up wota for you, and 3) you get all the buffs. I don't like buying WotA myself because deathcap and zhonya's are just too good What about Spirit Visage? Good item, gives you a nice hp pool and some valuable cdr. Problem is, it delays your zhonyacap by quite a bit. Only get it vs a heavy magic lane or if you opened tear and feel like you can farm a lot. Why do you recommend tear as a first item, that's really stupid. Well, it pays off in the long run, so do it if you're dunking your lane. Trust me, Swain is one of the few champions that can use that entire 1400 mana even with blue buff. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Not that I agree with Tooplark but holy wall of text... | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On February 10 2012 05:35 overt wrote: Swain can't stop Nasus from farming? I don't understand why you think that. Once you're like level 4 or so Nasus should be eating EQW any time he moves in to last hit and he can't retaliate at all. Riven shouldn't be getting close enough to Q combo towards you. If she gets too close you EQW her. But yeah, you have to be more careful against her and other melees who can close gaps but Swain still does fine in lane against gap closer melees. Udyr will take damage he just has lane sustain. But you're Swain, you have lane sustain too and post-6 I think Swain's lane sustain is a lot better than Udyr. I think that GP is scary early but once you have levels Swain can handle GP in lane imo. Just have to be a bit more pussy at early levels. I haven't played versus a swain in a while but are you saying Swain without blue can zone any champion in the game? I feel like nobody can retalitate against swains eqw anyway but nasus can outheal it. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
On February 16 2012 07:01 NeoIllusions wrote: Tooplark's tl;dr: RoA's bad. Go Catalyst => Deathcap + Zhonya's. Use Catalyst to build into Banshee's. Not that I agree with Tooplark but holy wall of text... Yeah I'm tired and typing a lot. Different playstyles, too. I like doing lots of damage. I never feel dangerous enough with rod. On February 16 2012 07:04 Slayer91 wrote: I haven't played versus a swain in a while but are you saying Swain without blue can zone any champion in the game? I feel like nobody can retalitate against swains eqw anyway but nasus can outheal it. If Swain has to EQW he runs out of mana too fast, especially versus someone like Riven. He can keep up EQing for a while off just passive and natural mana regen. In my experience, EQ hugely outdamages anything Nasus can heal off. Don't even bother with W. Udyr with magic resist can basically ignore you thanks to turtle, but he can't aggress on you too well, even though bear stance has a low CD. | ||
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Skithiryx
Australia648 Posts
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On February 28 2012 19:08 Skithiryx wrote: So what sort of runes and materies does everyone run on swain nowadays? Magic pen reds, mana regen/lvl yellows, flat mr blues and flat ap quints for mid. 21/0/9 or 21/9/0 and maybe scaling ap blues, depending on the enemy | ||
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