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On August 09 2011 23:21 Mogwai wrote:
Spear shot's power is pretty much just slightly buffed via the crits below 15% HP, but the base damages are basically unaffected now that it scales off of bonus rather than total AD. It will seem a little stronger earlier via the crits and a little weaker later except when critting.
Builds should probably look something like boots -> double dblade -> brutalizer -> bloodthirster -> profit. I'll most likely be speccing 21/9/0 at bot lane and 0/21/9 or 0/9/21 on solos with AD quints, ArPen Marks and then a hodgepodge of defensive crap on seals and glyphs. Q Scales better in terms of DPS than E does and it's mana cost doesn't go up, so still max Q first. QWEQQR -> Q > E > R > W. Without the global range, I'm actually not convinced you should get level 2 of R until after Q and E are maxed.
Early game buff, lategame nerf.
Wich is perfect for Pantheon. His job is similar to Urgot in that you have to shit all over the enemy and make his lane phase so bad that he is gonna be a drag all game long.
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Full damage means dorans blade and full AD red/quint runes with +3 AD from offense mastery for a total of +28.
The lists are in order of rank of skill, 1 through 5, factoring base damage at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9.
Old SS, No damage
16+50.7 = 66.7
28+(56.1x1.15) = 92.5
40+(61.5x1.3) = 119.95
52+(66.9x1.454) = 149.01
64+(72.3x1.6) = 179.68
Old SS, Full damage
16+78.7 = 94.7
28+(84.1x1.15) = 124.72
40+(89.5x1.3) = 156.4
52+(94.9x1.56) = 189.61
64+(100.3x1.6) = 224.5 (with BF sword: +(45x1.6) = 296.5)
New SS, No damage
65
105
145
185
225
New SS, Full damage
65+39.2 = 104.2
105+39.2 = 144.2
145+39.2 = 184.2
185+39.2 = 224.2
225+39.2 = 264.2 (with BF sword: +(45x1.4) = 327.2)
Next we look at the new heart seeker strike. Keep in mind that all of these values are doubled vs champions.
Old HSS, No damage
(4+(50.7x.2))x5 = 70.7dmg/1.8 = 39.3dps
(6+(56.1x.25))x5 = 100.1dmg/1.8 = 55.6dps
(8+(61.5x.3))x5 = 132.3dmg/1.8 = 73.5dps
(10+(66.7x.35))x5 = 167.1dmg/1.8 = 92.8dps
(12+(72.3x.4))x5 = 204.6dmg/1.8=113.7dps
Old HSS, Full damage
(4+(78.7x.2))x5 = 98.7dmg/1.8 = 54.8dps
(6+(84.1x.25))x5 = 135.1dmg/1.8 =
(8+(89.5x.3))x5 = 174.3dmg/1.8 =
(10+(94.9x.35))x5 = 216.1dmg/1.8 =
(12+(100.3x.4))x5 = 260.6dmg/1.8 =144.8dps (with BF sword: +((45x.4)x5) = 350.6dmg, 194.8dps
New HSS, No damage
13x3 = 39dmg/.75 = 52dps
23x3 = 69dmg/.75 = 92dps
33x3 = 99dmg/.75 = 132dps
43x3 = 129dmg/.75 = 172dps
53x3 = 159dmg/.75 = 212dps
New HSS, Full damage
(13+(28x.6))x3 = 89.4dmg/.75 = 119dps
(23+(28x.6))x3 = 119.4dmg/.75 = 159dps
(33+(28x.6))x3 = 149.4dmg/.75 = 199dps
(43+(28x.6))x3 = 179.4dmg/.75 = 239dps
(53+(28x.6))x3 = 209.4dmg/.75 = 279dps (with BF sword: +((45x.6)x3) = 290.4dmg, 387.2dps
Just thought I'd throw this in here, I posted the same thing in LoL forums
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Thoughts on Shurelia's Reverie on Panth?
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On August 12 2011 10:24 Koenig99 wrote:
Thoughts on Shurelia's Reverie on Panth?
Why build reverie? It's a good item, but why build it on panth?
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One of the major problems that I find now with pantheon is extreme mana issues due to the removal of his ult's global cast range. Most of the time I'll find myself ulting after harassing someone in lane or away from fountain- since the ult costs 150 mana at level1, and pantheon's mana pool at lvl6ish is ~400(?iirc) once you mandrop you'll be hard pressed to do a q-w-e-q combo. Most of the time I'll just q-w before oom. Never really had this problem before ult nerf as the majority of the time I'd be ulting from fountain lol. Anyway, kinda annoying, not sure how to remedy (mp5 runes don't really help here). Considering manamune? but that's such a shit item for Pantheon since he needs early damage real bad.
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On August 12 2011 11:15 Truez wrote:
One of the major problems that I find now with pantheon is extreme mana issues due to the removal of his ult's global cast range. Most of the time I'll find myself ulting after harassing someone in lane or away from fountain- since the ult costs 150 mana at level1, and pantheon's mana pool at lvl6ish is ~400(?iirc) once you mandrop you'll be hard pressed to do a q-w-e-q combo. Most of the time I'll just q-w before oom. Never really had this problem before ult nerf as the majority of the time I'd be ulting from fountain lol. Anyway, kinda annoying, not sure how to remedy (mp5 runes don't really help here). Considering manamune? but that's such a shit item for Pantheon since he needs early damage real bad.
I find myself rarely jumping these days. Either you have no range or you don't have the mana to still pull off a combo after it. They should really remove the mana cost imo, Pantheon can't deal with high mana costs.
As for the rest, where are all the pantheons? He is the best mid in the whole wide world. I always used to think so but with this buff there really is no doubt that he completly stomps every standard mid champion.
Especially Annie is a ton of fun. Strong mid? Lol no, pew pew.
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I feel like a lot of casters mid beat Panth like Ori and Brand. Heroes that can harass him from out of range of his stun basically.
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On August 12 2011 13:37 arnath wrote:
I feel like a lot of casters mid beat Panth like Ori and Brand. Heroes that can harass him from out of range of his stun basically.
Both Brand and Ori can at best go head to head with him. You start with shoes + pots. With pantheons 330 base move speed this allready makes it a snooze to dodge most skillshots or run someone down from range.
Combine that with irregular movement due to sudden W stuns and you can make both scream out in frustration.
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Dangerous on both sides. Pantheon will get destroyed by brand's combo in a trade if he doesn't juke out the Q before trying to HSS, and straight up trading spear for brand's spells isn't favorable either.
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On August 12 2011 10:24 Koenig99 wrote:
Thoughts on Shurelia's Reverie on Panth?
Thoughts on bloodthirster on Taric?
On August 12 2011 11:15 Truez wrote:
One of the major problems that I find now with pantheon is extreme mana issues due to the removal of his ult's global cast range. Most of the time I'll find myself ulting after harassing someone in lane or away from fountain- since the ult costs 150 mana at level1, and pantheon's mana pool at lvl6ish is ~400(?iirc) once you mandrop you'll be hard pressed to do a q-w-e-q combo. Most of the time I'll just q-w before oom. Never really had this problem before ult nerf as the majority of the time I'd be ulting from fountain lol. Anyway, kinda annoying, not sure how to remedy (mp5 runes don't really help here). Considering manamune? but that's such a shit item for Pantheon since he needs early damage real bad.
I kinda just wanna look up an old locodoco post where he was talking about how all the really good players were ditching their mana runes because really it just boils down to getting better at mana management, but instead I'll just say get better at mana management. You shouldn't have mana issues with Pantheon.
On August 12 2011 13:33 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:15 Truez wrote:
One of the major problems that I find now with pantheon is extreme mana issues due to the removal of his ult's global cast range. Most of the time I'll find myself ulting after harassing someone in lane or away from fountain- since the ult costs 150 mana at level1, and pantheon's mana pool at lvl6ish is ~400(?iirc) once you mandrop you'll be hard pressed to do a q-w-e-q combo. Most of the time I'll just q-w before oom. Never really had this problem before ult nerf as the majority of the time I'd be ulting from fountain lol. Anyway, kinda annoying, not sure how to remedy (mp5 runes don't really help here). Considering manamune? but that's such a shit item for Pantheon since he needs early damage real bad. I find myself rarely jumping these days. Either you have no range or you don't have the mana to still pull off a combo after it. They should really remove the mana cost imo, Pantheon can't deal with high mana costs. As for the rest, where are all the pantheons? He is the best mid in the whole wide world. I always used to think so but with this buff there really is no doubt that he completly stomps every standard mid champion. Especially Annie is a ton of fun. Strong mid? Lol no, pew pew.
shouldn't be having issues using your ult tbh. Just learn better mana management. Late game is easy, secure objectives close to your team and do so without straining your mana pool. Earlier, it can be trickier, but I mean, come on, most characters have to deal with mana management, why should Panth be any different?
Pantheon is OK at mid, but a lot of guys will also just dump on him.
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There are 2 champs in this meta that take mid. Orianna and Brand. Panth loses to both, wutdo.
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On August 12 2011 15:20 HazMat wrote:
There are 2 champs in this meta that take mid. Orianna and Brand. Panth loses to both, wutdo.
they both skillshot based,dodge their shit yo
run armorpen,flat mana regen,flat mr,flat ad quints
21/0/9
boots x 3 pots
max Q
just farm until they use thier skillshots,after they use start exchanging hits
harass heavily at level 3 and 5
dont let them push ur lane
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shouldn't be having issues using your ult tbh. Just learn better mana management. Late game is easy, secure objectives close to your team and do so without straining your mana pool. Earlier, it can be trickier, but I mean, come on, most characters have to deal with mana management, why should Panth be any different?
Pantheon is OK at mid, but a lot of guys will also just dump on him.
Mana management? Ooh please keep your theorycrafting to yourself.
If you have mana to spare for jumping all over the map and pulling off a combo at every moment then you are playing him completly wrong.
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Panth wins lanes by outpoking you and shoving you out of lane until you're too low to fight back safely. For example that caster you're against has spells with 10 second cooldowns, and while they're on cd (or they're not but you know you can out-maneuver them) you're trying to get your spear harass in at every moment possible with your superior movespeed. I don't think Panth's base regen is enough to execute this strat to its complete efficiency in the early levels.
reading back to myself it sounds pretty obvious but I just thought it needed to be made clear
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On August 12 2011 15:20 HazMat wrote:
There are 2 champs in this meta that take mid. Orianna and Brand. Panth loses to both, wutdo.
ban both of them
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On August 12 2011 15:37 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +shouldn't be having issues using your ult tbh. Just learn better mana management. Late game is easy, secure objectives close to your team and do so without straining your mana pool. Earlier, it can be trickier, but I mean, come on, most characters have to deal with mana management, why should Panth be any different?
Pantheon is OK at mid, but a lot of guys will also just dump on him. Mana management? Ooh please keep your theorycrafting to yourself. If you have mana to spare for jumping all over the map and pulling off a combo at every moment then you are playing him completly wrong.
a) Who is this guy?
b) Smash called out for theorycrafting the things he said when it comes to panth.
Trollol.
Locos stream showed perfectly how (in theory) mana on Panth works.
tl;dr: Be aggressive with Qs at lvl 3 and 5, conserve mana at lvl 2 and 4. Usually when I'm playing random nups with panth around lvl 4-5 it's time for all-out combos and first blood.
How does Panth compare to Garen in Taric bot lanes? I'm really wondering if panth is the stronger option now or not.
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a) Who is this guy?
Zalz, it's right above the post
b) Smash called out for theorycrafting the things he said when it comes to panth.
I meant that he was talking all about theory without understanding how Pantheon actually plays. If you play Pantheon as you should, super harass, you are never going to be floating a lot of mana. It's not about mana managment, it's about how the proper Pantheon play won't let you hold on to a ton of mana or just spend it on jump + combo like it's nothing.
How does Panth compare to Garen in Taric bot lanes? I'm really wondering if panth is the stronger option now or not.
I don't see Panth really being that great of a laner on bot when he has to be dealing damage against anyone who has a healer back him up.
When the name of the game is harass you are kind of fucked when a healer is fixing all the damage you dish out. Garen still has bigger numbers if he can pull them off, wich Taric let's him do.
Whatever benefit Panth derives from Taric stuns probably doesn't weigh up against the fact that you will be facing a healer.
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Lol, see so many people building mana on pantheon, it's so stupid. His mana costs aren't that high if you just don't spam all day. People build manamune and never need the mana because they only need it for lane any way. Build a philo if you need mana. The only high mana cost you have is your ult and 150 mana is liek the same as Annie's W at level 9 and nobody builds mana on her.
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Finland33997 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:24 Koenig99 wrote:
Thoughts on Shurelia's Reverie on Panth?
I always build it. Despite what Mogwai says, I always have mana issues with Panth and I don't get how he can NOT have mana issues unless he only lasthits, in which case you should play someone who's good lategame.
On August 12 2011 22:07 Slayer91 wrote:
Lol, see so many people building mana on pantheon, it's so stupid. His mana costs aren't that high if you just don't spam all day. People build manamune and never need the mana because they only need it for lane any way. Build a philo if you need mana. The only high mana cost you have is your ult and 150 mana is liek the same as Annie's W at level 9 and nobody builds mana on her. Spears empty your mana rapidly, stun HSS combo takes over 100 and if you have no regen, you're not going to get it back. If you want to outdamage ~5 health pots, you need to use your skills, otherwise you get harrassed off the lane.
Now this of course doesn't hold true if you lane bot with a mana manip taric or something similarly OP
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EPT
