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I seriously don't understand manamune.
with sheen you overcome the problem of early game mana, and with R costing next to nothing you can farm like crazy without using mana.
saving the 2k gold lets you get BC or finish triforce, as well as lets you rush sheen, giving you that much more burst early, making you even stronger for any skirmishes. slight change to your playstyle and not being lazy last hitting lets you cut out a relatively weak dmg item for much stronger options much earlier.
also, in any lane where you feel overwhelmed, just get to 6 and imba rocket harass to win.
also, BC makes everyone on your team hit them harder.
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If you don't hog blue on Corki and don't build Manamune, you WILL go oom every fight. It's not about being lazy.
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On June 15 2011 12:50 Kaneh wrote:
I seriously don't understand manamune.
with sheen you overcome the problem of early game mana, and with R costing next to nothing you can farm like crazy without using mana.
saving the 2k gold lets you get BC or finish triforce, as well as lets you rush sheen, giving you that much more burst early, making you even stronger for any skirmishes. slight change to your playstyle and not being lazy last hitting lets you cut out a relatively weak dmg item for much stronger options much earlier.
also, in any lane where you feel overwhelmed, just get to 6 and imba rocket harass to win.
also, BC makes everyone on your team hit them harder.
Sheen only gives like 300-400 mana. That's nowhere near enough if you're constantly usin Q and R to farm/harass. Q is pretty expensive, costs about 100 mana, while R cost 30 mana per rocket, which builds up very fast. Additionally, even if you don't use abilities at all during laning, without manamune you run into the very real problem of going oom in fights if you constantly spam Q/R and occasionally use W to reposition.
manamune also isn't that big of a waste of gold in terms of the amount of AD it gives you. end game it'll give about 60 AD, which is pretty cost-effective. for the early game, when you first get it, it'll probably only give 20-30 AD, which is shabby, but it's not too bad.
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I always run out of mana with only sheen :\
Manamune gives OK dmg and if you buy sheen / triforce + banshees later the bonus just goes up and up
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On June 15 2011 12:15 TheYango wrote:
Your calculations apply ONLY to those targets with those armor values. If LW is only slightly better vs 2 of their team members, but significantly worse against the other 3, then BC is still worth it overall. LW has to be better than flat pen by enough on high-armor targets to make up for the fact that the %-pen is only significant against those targets.
So even though LW is "better" at 200-ish armor, it's not actually a better buy until 250-300 armor, unless there are a lot of high-armor enemies.
"Significantly worse against the other 3" is just plain wrong.
vs 100 armor:
BC+E at level 5, full duration:
= 0 armor = 0% reduction
LW+E at level 5, full duration:
100 armor
-50 from E
= 50
-25 from runes
= 25
-40% from LW
= 15 armor = 13% reduction
The peak efficiency of BC vs LW is actually much more closer to 150 armor than it is to 100 armor. You lose 15% damage against 150 armor and 13% against 100 armor. Even less against lower values.
Considering Corkis E has a similar cooldown to Tristanas Q (both abilities where you just HAVE to assume only one active use during teamfights) you have -at max efficiency assuming you hit everyone for the full duration- (everyone knows this is complete crap, especially against targets in the back) about 50% uptime of your procs on the enemy team which (imo) completely nullifies the advantage you get against champs with less than 150 armor for 2-3seconds.
Overall the more I think about it (factoring in not hitting all champions, moving back and forth, building up E procs) I actually think LW is superior over BC in almost all situations. The main exception being, that BC helps your team more if you have lots of other physical damage.
In my opinion the reasoning behind getting BC or LW should be being based on how much you can help other damage dealers with that BC. If you now add in that most of the physical damage dealers you have besides your ad carry are junglers/solo top (almost all diving carries, not hitting tanks as much as you will) BC becomes worse again.
Advantage of BC over LW (assuming full stacks of both BC and E, 25 ArPen from runes) in damage reduction on target:
75 Armor: 0%
100 Armor: 13%
150 Armor: 15%
200 Armor: 1%
e.g. all it needs vs someone with 150 armor is a single BC proc or 3 E procs to not be on the target and your advantage just shrinked to a lousy 5%.
Basicly as soon as you fail some E/BC procs here and there against their offtanks/tanks (or simply don't have E running) LW becomes superior. I'd trade 13% more damage vs squishies in the back for that all day.
Edit: A huge argument in favor of BC which I failed to see in all that theorycraft: You get BC way quicker than LW. That might actually be huge. >_>
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I think people are misunderstanding triforce.
There are the vayne type of ranged carries
and then there are ashe type where you deal damage only when you can. and corki is like an ashe almost
Movespeed is necessary to not die and it has more utility than armor/mr/hp. Anything that gives movespeed is great. Like zeal. Then there are effects like phage which is the same thing - it affects movespeed for your benifit.
Then corki needs to attack only when he can get away with it, or he takes too much damage and dies. Sheen helps with this, because it gives more powerful attacks when corki attacks, which is always less than what your attackspeed allows.
triforce maximizes the amount of stuff corki does while playing passively which is the correct way to play in solo.
then I'd say build cleaver because it benefits from attack speed and you have a lot of it at that point.
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heh people justifying an item choice by saying it's not that bad early on, and it gets to be average later.
items for convenience I guess. when you justify an item because it gives you mana when mana was proven to be a near useless stat god knows how many patches ago, you know that you're running into issues.
you may as well grab philo instead of getting manamune. at least it pays for itself and gives you hp regen in lane.
also,i think a major point of why BC > LW is cause it's more of a one item package deal for corki. with trinity+BC, his damage is good to go for a long time, so you can build banshees or whatever next. with trinity+LW, it's not quite good enough. partially cause your thoerycraft doesn't include the extra 15 dmg and 30%AS.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
ive tried just about every corki build and manamune/triforce/veil/mercs is just the best core by far, no other build even compares.
starting with a bf sword isnt that great due to corki's weak range, you barely auto attack.
going straight up tri-force leaves you out of mana in 5 seconds if you are playing corki properly and spamming your long range pokes whenever you can
?? not sure what else there is to go so ill leave it at that, only different route I ever take is if im facing a hard lane I will get extra doran blades before building the tear.
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If you don't get manamune you either forfeit poking and godmode-farming (bad) or having mana in teamfights (worse).
I played BC/IE Corki for a while, then Ghostblade/IE and neither had enough mana. I even ran double mp5pl and it wasn't enough. Corki burns through mana really really fast.
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Man I don't know what runes you guys run but if you have mp5/l seals and glyphs then you don't need to waste money on manamune.
Its like the absolute worst item in the game
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And I'm sure you're the absolute best Corki in the game with an amazing Elo and KDA and no room for improvement... right?
The only way you don't need Manamune is if you're not using your spells and just autoattacking. At that point, just pick someone else. On the other hand, if you are using your spells properly, or at least frequently enough for Triforce procs, you DO need either Manamune or blue buff. Not only does Manamune allow blue buff to go to someone that needs it more, it's cost-effective when maxed and if you spec strength of spirit and 21 utility, you have great regen as well.
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On June 17 2011 09:39 RoieTRS wrote:
Man I don't know what runes you guys run but if you have mp5/l seals and glyphs then you don't need to waste money on manamune.
Its like the absolute worst item in the game
Why would you run mp5/lvl seals and glyphs -.-
those are terrible runes on corki and if you're spamming your spells whenever they're off cooldown they will never give you nearly enough mana regen. philo stone does sound like a pretty good substitute for manamune, although manamune has the added benefit of giving some AD, and philo stone would require 2 slots not one (as I doubt 1 philo will do enough); not to mention upcoming philo stone nerf.
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Solo lane: Get manamune.
Bot lane: Manamune optional.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 17 2011 09:39 RoieTRS wrote:
Man I don't know what runes you guys run but if you have mp5/l seals and glyphs then you don't need to waste money on manamune.
Its like the absolute worst item in the game
You know that makes no sense, right?
Mp5 covers long-term sustainability, with regen over time. Flat mana helps in giving you enough of a mana buffer to spam in short-term situations like a teamfight. This is exactly the issue that Manamune is designed to cover--that if Corki goes crazy and spams everything, he burns through an insane amount of mana in a very short time. Manamune doesn't actually give you a ton of regen--what it does is it creates a huge buffer that makes it so that you have a lot of short-term spam room in a fight.
Basically, mp5 barely helps with the "if you don't have Manamune, you will run out of mana in teamfights" issue, because over a period of time as short as a teamfight, the regen from mp5 will not be that big.
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high elo corki
21/0/9
exhaust/flash (ghost over exhaust if u suck at positioning)
take a fucking solo lane dont ever duo as corki
armorpen reds
armor or attackspeed yellows
mr or attackspeed blues
flat ad quints
dont ever fucking get manaregen on corki
max q,1 in W at 2,max e,get ult whenever
boots x 3 pots->1~2 doran->manamune->sheen->cleaver
after that
ie if u want mad deeps
banshee if ap raping u
trinity if it's even and u cant build ie cuz games gonna be decided before than
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On June 17 2011 22:08 locodoco wrote:
high elo corki
21/0/9
exhaust/flash (ghost over exhaust if u suck at positioning)
take a fucking solo lane dont ever duo as corki
armorpen reds
armor or attackspeed yellows
mr or attackspeed blues
flat ad quints
dont ever fucking get manaregen on corki
max q,1 in W at 2,max e,get ult whenever
boots x 3 pots->1~2 doran->manamune->sheen->cleaver
after that
ie if u want mad deeps
banshee if ap raping u
trinity if it's even and u cant build ie cuz games gonna be decided before than
We will thank you later 
One question: isn't it better to be duo laning with a support? You get all the farming and solo-lanes can be quite hard vs some mages.
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On June 17 2011 23:50 napo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2011 22:08 locodoco wrote:
high elo corki
21/0/9
exhaust/flash (ghost over exhaust if u suck at positioning)
take a fucking solo lane dont ever duo as corki
armorpen reds
armor or attackspeed yellows
mr or attackspeed blues
flat ad quints
dont ever fucking get manaregen on corki
max q,1 in W at 2,max e,get ult whenever
boots x 3 pots->1~2 doran->manamune->sheen->cleaver
after that
ie if u want mad deeps
banshee if ap raping u
trinity if it's even and u cant build ie cuz games gonna be decided before than
We will thank you later One question: isn't it better to be duo laning with a support? You get all the farming and solo-lanes can be quite hard vs some mages.
IMO corki, unlike other dps like ashe and MF, really benefits from the lvs.
Therefore solo lane is better.
Plus corki doesn't really have a bad matchup, as he can always just sit back and farm with Q + rocket (with a manamune, ofc)
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godamn loco and his advice not applying to EU meta.. solo lane for a AD carry just won't happen in solo queue, you'll get flamed, trolled and reported.
Might pull a guardsman bob and just play US after season 1 ends, EU meta is so lame and boring.
I mean the latency wont be any different, you already play with 120 ms+ on EU because it gets re-routed to US anyway.
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From what i've seen when watching the top tier EU teams if there's any AD sent to a solo lane - then it's corki.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On June 18 2011 03:10 Senx wrote:
godamn loco and his advice not applying to EU meta.. solo lane for a AD carry just won't happen in solo queue, you'll get flamed, trolled and reported.
Might pull a guardsman bob and just play US after season 1 ends, EU meta is so lame and boring.
I mean the latency wont be any different, you already play with 120 ms+ on EU because it gets re-routed to US anyway.
I thought when EU runs Corki they go double AD carry with Corki solo top, AP mid and someone like Ashe duo bot.
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EPT
