TRM wins easily with teemo because it is his main champion and if he was playing seriously he wouldn't be diamond 2. I too can play teemo in diamond 2 that doesn't make him a good champ.

His ap build was olafd and that is fact. Just look at the numbers and compare them with any other ap ability nerf (not counting supports because obviously teemo is a damage dealer).

That is why i advise an ad/as splitpush because this one wasn't nerfed that much.

Ente

Germany1795 Posts

October 12 2014 12:20 GMT

#422

as someone who used to play a lot of teemo in other seasons I agree that he is just incredibly underwhelming at the moment, my statement when the trinkets where first introduced that sweepers are far better to deal with a teemo than oracles I still believe holds true and people got better and more comfortable using trinkets.

And obviously the nerf which just made it way harder for him to lane.
In addition to that looking at top lane with the likes of maokai, nidalee, ryze, rumble, gnar etc which all have a very good matchup versus teemo because they have range and/or good sustain. We could also add the rammus/j4 jungles which are popular and hard to deal with as teemo.

So a lot of things which make him way weak(er) than before

Tooplark

United States3977 Posts

October 12 2014 14:33 GMT

#423

Teemo wrecks Maokai, barring serious early ganks. Just don't cast spells. You outrange Q, you can dodge E, and if he Ws onto you you just Q him and fight him.

krndandaman

Mozambique16569 Posts

October 12 2014 16:04 GMT

#424

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Tooplark

United States3977 Posts

October 12 2014 16:14 GMT

#425

On October 13 2014 01:04 krndandaman wrote:

Show nested quote +

not really. maokai can safely farm under tower and has enough sustain to last the lane. he'll eventually outscale teemo and be able to 1v1 him easy. teemo isn't going to get zoned or anything during laning but its not a matchup I'd particularly pick into.

Maokai's sustain is entirely dependent on casting spells and autoattacking creeps. Teemo doesn't have to cast spells to harass Mao; if Maokai casts spells, Maokai pushes the lane; when Maokai eventually gets 5 stacks on his passive and goes to auto a creep, Teemo can punish him with autos and Q.

krndandaman

Mozambique16569 Posts

October 12 2014 16:43 GMT

#426

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RouaF

France4121 Posts

October 13 2014 09:52 GMT

#427

Add to this the fact that if the jungler comes teemo won't survive because mao can slow/root him easily. This is the problem with most teemo matchups, 1v1 he's kinda fine (if not vs ranged) but when you add a fucking leesin or khazix things change.

Tooplark

United States3977 Posts

October 13 2014 15:48 GMT

#428

Yeah, krndandaman actually tested it with me yesterday, and our conclusion was that the matchup is probably Teemo-favored, but not as much as I thought. However, we only played one game, and there's a bit of a skill gap between us, so take this with a grain of salt.
We both agreed that if there were a jungler, Teemo's life would have been much harder, and even if Teemo does beat Maokai, an underfarmed tree is still useful to his team. So I guess I should make it clear that I'm not advocating Teemo as a counterpick.

bmn

886 Posts

October 13 2014 16:41 GMT

#429

Thanks for the replies and the lively discussion.

RouaF: When you say go full as/split push, does this mean 'bruiser type' BotRK/fmallet build or something even more push-oriented? What would that look like?

I've tried the BotRK/FMallet build a few more times, but really without any luck. I still don't understand how people make it work: BotRK takes so long to build (I'm probably just horrible at farming) that by the time I complete it, and definitely before I complete FMallet, my enemies seem outscale me in one of two ways: The damage to 100-0 me (e.g. Jax/Darius/) if I ever get in range, or they have enough sustain to outtrade me heavily if I get in range (e.g. Ryze/Mao). The AP build deals with this through shroom+Q harrass that gets people low before they get into AA range.

How does one play a bruiser build? Any good examples? Maybe I just don't realize how to kite effectively.

Since BotrK is so expensive to complete, it feels like I miss my chance to punish the opponents pre-6 and around 6-9, while the haunting guise -> liandry's build-up seems a lot smoother (haunting guise seems a lot better than cutlass).

RouaF

France4121 Posts

October 13 2014 19:04 GMT

#430

You have to understand that teemo's strength is bullying melees early. The splitpush build works by getting ahead, if you want to splitpush it's obviously way better if you can 1v1 your direct opponent. For this you need to get ahead, in gold but also more importantly in XP ! So the most important thing you should be focusing on is winning your lane hard.

This means either killing your opponent or just making him recall way too often and denying him XP by shoving into his tower while he backs. In the meantime you also need to be taking as much cs as possible, as Teemo you should miss very few of them. I admit that for a beginner this is really hard to do but that's how Teemo plays.

As for the best build I don't know you'd have to look it up on probuilds.net or TRM's stream. I played mainly AP teemo back then. If you want to play ap splitpush (which is kinda meh but you seem more comfortable playing AP) just start doran ring 2 pots -> haunting guise -> sorc shoes -> nashors. Don't forget to buy potions when you have spare money after buying when you back, Teemo has no sustain and he needs to win the lane as said above.

RouaF

France4121 Posts

October 21 2014 12:27 GMT

#431

Just updating because for great science I've been playing Teemo on my smurf (smurf mmr is around plat while i'm D1/masters on main). While I don't have too much trouble in lane (expected against weaker opponent) I maintain that ap teemo is really bad because even when you get ahead you don't deal that much damage. The damage output is just overall too low compared to what it should be.

OmegaKnetus

Germany431 Posts

October 22 2014 13:23 GMT

#432

It's sadly true. Teemo was my main before he was even popular in s4 but after the nerfs he is just underwhelming. Even when I get fed it's super hard to actually carry, I'd win games with Zero effort on certain other Champions with the same score.

I hate to say it but teemo is only viable as a niche pick vs some melee carrries and even then he isn't the best pick for the job. By playing heimerdinger top you get everything teemo has combined with more damage and cc, pick that guy if you want an ap splitpusher with objective control

nobodywonder

United States848 Posts

October 24 2014 19:44 GMT

#433

Teemo is a great niche pick to counterpick champions such as Tryndamere.

Pulimuli

Sweden2766 Posts

October 27 2014 11:36 GMT

#434

On October 25 2014 04:44 nobodywonder wrote:
Teemo is a great niche pick to counterpick champions such as Tryndamere.

there are other counters to trynda that is actually useful, like Irelia

GolemMadness

Canada11044 Posts

October 28 2014 01:25 GMT

#435

Irelia is definitely not a counter to Tryndamere...

nobodywonder

United States848 Posts

December 27 2014 05:31 GMT

#436

Actually Teemo forever...Teemo jungle, support, adc, top, or middle. Teemo works in any situation.

Sell your soul for elo. Hail Satan.

On October 28 2014 10:25 GolemMadness wrote:
Irelia is definitely not a counter to Tryndamere...

Skill matchup but Tryndamere will outscale in 1v1 duels eventually. Irelia much more useful in teamfights with that wtf-forever stun though.

ItsFunToLose

United States776 Posts

December 27 2014 10:53 GMT

#437

On December 27 2014 14:31 nobodywonder wrote:
Actually Teemo forever...Teemo jungle, support, adc, top, or middle. Teemo works in any situation.

Sell your soul for elo. Hail Satan.

Show nested quote +

Skill matchup but Tryndamere will outscale in 1v1 duels eventually. Irelia much more useful in teamfights with that wtf-forever stun though.

at no point does tryndamere ever outscale teemo. unless you're getting 50 cs per 10, or letting him go even. The best i've seen a tryndamere do vs my teemo was to literally abandon lane, and gank bottom 4v2 with his jungler several times. they'd get a double kill + dragon + tower for my tower. rinse repeat a few times and my team was just ready to surrender. the only way to beat teemo is to not 1v1 him. interpret as necessary; 2v1 or 0v1.

Uldridge

Belgium5183 Posts

December 27 2014 15:38 GMT

#438

I feel the baron control with shrooms is really, REALLY strong though, even with his ap ratios nerfed.
Also, they should've made the lifespan of the shrooms go up with the ap reduction, would've been fun to completely cover their jungle + river with the mushrooms.