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Here are the latest balance changes for the Legacy of the Void Beta. Protoss Cyclone Lock-On now deals 400 damage over 20 seconds against both ground and air. Lock-On upgrade increases the damage against armored units by 400 against both ground and air. Carrier build time increased from 90 to 120 seconds. Bug Fixes Fixed an issue that prevented missile attacks from doing damage if their target moved out of attack range. Fixed several issues with the Disruptor involving movement and queuing commands while firing Purification Nova. To learn more about the state of the beta and thoughts behind these changes, head on over to David Kim’s post.
I am certain Blizzard means 64 seconds to 85.3 seconds (real/LotV time). Also that the cyclone is a Terran unit lol
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Looks like they're more or less done with big changes, should see a few more tweaks before release, then maybe big changes in a few months if the top pros discover something broken and abuse it in tournaments.
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On October 17 2015 04:40 jalstar wrote:
Looks like they're more or less done with big changes, should see a few more tweaks before release, then maybe big changes in a few months if the top pros discover something broken and abuse it in tournaments.
Pretty much this, the team is just trying to get everything in a semi non broken state so when the Koreans come in the actual "balance" will be shown.
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They pay so much attention to Starcraft that they don't even know what race has Cyclones anymore.
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Poor poor cyclone. Maybe I'll play some games and try and find a use for it.
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Honestly these last 2 patches decided for me that i'm not going to be pre ordering nor buying the game anytime soon around release date. Reason why ? I'm just going to spectate the shitshow.
I got hots collectors edition and nearly played WOL every day. Definitely a sc2 fan and will continue to be one. This time from the sideline though. Fuck playing with the gutted swarmhost, or the shitty infestor who is supposedly extremely good in extremely situational moments, wow paradox much? If i was good at sc 2 one day a month or a few days, i guess i'm extremely good at the game according to david kim's analogy. It's false lol i'm as good as my average not my best day.
Same goes for the infestor and SH, they still suck. Just cuz they can barely work or can be made useful doesn't equal = "EXTREMELY USEFUL". At this point i just wanna see livestreams and buy the game after 1-6 months for campaign.
Perhaps the game could be redeeming itself but as it currently stands their design policies for zerg sucks. Like literally the only crazy good thing zerg got was the corruptor spray which is still sick dps, ravager is okey/good and can be meh. Almost like a sub spellcaster. The viper PB is cool altho it fails vs all massive air units. Not complaining about balance at all here.
I just think it sucks that zerg got boring SH, boring infestor, boring ultra armor, boring faster roach burrow movement. ( i see the burrow movement once per 30 games so far) As far SH once a 35-50 games? I'm not saying every unit in the game should be used more often but a little bit of a tweak would cause that. How don't they realize that? And if they do why don't they? Ever since the SH burrow move change being removed, this game has gotten more and more boring.
Even the Ravager range nerf? Why not just put it at hive like wtf.
Also balance wise: the mule is still stupid, rallying armies = worse than a-move mentality. It's a passively active queue of rallied units, you don't have to micro them until it's almost to late. The leeway you get as a rallying terran are nicer benefits than any of the other 2 races. This is why i'll watch lotv from the sideline  .
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Netflix presents a David Kim original, "Carriers are the New Zealots", the sequel to "Zealots are the New Bunkers"
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^ Zerg is awesome now mate, my experience has been quite different. Ravager and Lurker were great additions and the new Ultra is boss.
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The buff didn't even do anything though.
All it did was change cyclone damage from being 42.8dps vs armored over 13 seconds to 40 dp over 20 seconds. Nothing survived the 13 second 42.8 barrage given cyclone could continuously fire anyway, so its just numerical change to entice people to play around with it more I feel.
Its inherent problem is still there as I've wrote on my cyclone thread.
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Cyclone is now a protoss unit it seems.
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All it did was change cyclone damage from being 42.8dps vs armored over 13 seconds to 40 dp over 20 seconds. Nothing survived the 13 second 42.8 barrage given cyclone could continuously fire anyway, so its just numerical change to entice people to play around with it more I feel.
It's 14 seconds, 20 seconds is the Blizzard-time number.
They increased anti-armor dps by 33% and reduced the HP by 33% (to 120).
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On October 17 2015 05:17 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +All it did was change cyclone damage from being 42.8dps vs armored over 13 seconds to 40 dp over 20 seconds. Nothing survived the 13 second 42.8 barrage given cyclone could continuously fire anyway, so its just numerical change to entice people to play around with it more I feel.
It's 14 seconds, 20 seconds is the Blizzard-time number. They increased anti-armor dps by 33% and reduced the HP by 33% (to 120).
Doesn't that mean my point stand even more in my thread? Its a 150/150 3 supply unit that has 40 less hp now. It definitely can't go up in direct engagement now.
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It's a nerf to direct engagements against anything non-armored, against armored it's about the same (maybe worse against mech since that has a lot of units with high range and burst damage).
It's a pretty big buff to its use as a poking tool. I guarantee you, in a couple of months you're going to see Korean pros abusing the hell out of this. The unit turns APM directly into damage.
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On October 17 2015 05:29 Athenau wrote:
It's a nerf to direct engagements against anything non-armored, against armored it's about the same (maybe worse against mech since that has a lot of units with high range and burst damage).
It's a pretty big buff to its use as a poking tool. I guarantee you, in a couple of months you're going to see Korean pros abusing the hell out of this. The unit turns APM directly into damage.
Yep, It is pretty damn big buff early-mid game but nerf lategame.
Terran already struggles in lategame but excels in early-mid game already. I feel like David kim is just exacerbating the problem right now. Terran is very strong in the later early to midgame right now with the tools they have, but I think this may tip it over to absurd.
Lategame though, terran is bit lacking and this change on't change any of it.
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Thye fixed the cyclone being a protoss unit typo real quick. Still who writes this stuff, and why don't they proof read it?
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Lategame though, terran is bit lacking and this change on't change any of it.
Lategame is problematic solely because of horrible mass-air balls. Fix that problem directly and Terran is fine, IMO.
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On October 17 2015 05:42 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +Lategame though, terran is bit lacking and this change on't change any of it. Lategame is problematic solely because of horrible mass-air balls. Fix that problem directly and Terran is fine, IMO.
True. But I still don't think buffing cyclone early-mid game was solution, especially when terran is right now very strong in midgame stages.
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damn pvz is going to be a nightmare lol, ground zerg is just sooooooooooo strong
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On October 17 2015 05:29 Athenau wrote:
It's a nerf to direct engagements against anything non-armored, against armored it's about the same (maybe worse against mech since that has a lot of units with high range and burst damage).
It's a pretty big buff to its use as a poking tool. I guarantee you, in a couple of months you're going to see Korean pros abusing the hell out of this. The unit turns APM directly into damage.
I definitely agree with you regarding APM. The Cyclone is a very weird unit and I think it makes sense for it to be underused right now. I always find it funny when people say it's a no-skill unit because it has something called lock-on.
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So what unit comp is the cyclone supposed to be a part of? It is easily countered by Adept+Phoenix if opened with in TvP. At 120 health it has no place standing up to ling/roach/ravager balls. In TvT it is hard countered by Bio and/or tanks. And with its new lower health pool, you can't even mix it into other comps without risking it dying.
Is it supposed to be a hero unit? Sent out 1 by 1 and runs away from every fight?
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On October 17 2015 06:06 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
So what unit comp is the cyclone supposed to be a part of? It is easily countered by Adept+Phoenix if opened with in TvP. At 120 health it has no place standing up to ling/roach/ravager balls. In TvT it is hard countered by Bio and/or tanks. And with its new lower health pool, you can't even mix it into other comps without risking it dying.
Is it supposed to be a hero unit? Sent out 1 by 1 and runs away from every fight?
Its single target damage is actually disgustingly strong. Just that it is better in early-mid game than in lategame. Terran is already very strong in midgame so I feel this update was out of place
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On October 17 2015 06:06 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
So what unit comp is the cyclone supposed to be a part of? It is easily countered by Adept+Phoenix if opened with in TvP. At 120 health it has no place standing up to ling/roach/ravager balls. In TvT it is hard countered by Bio and/or tanks. And with its new lower health pool, you can't even mix it into other comps without risking it dying.
Is it supposed to be a hero unit? Sent out 1 by 1 and runs away from every fight?
How are roaches and ravagers going to catch a Cyclone? It outranges and outpaces them heavily off-creep.
As for what army compositions they'll be used in? Probably a regular mech army of Tank/Hellbat/Mines/Liberators. Siege up your tanks or liberators, lock-on to buildings or units with your Cyclones and run back to the protection of your main army while killing their shit. So either they lose stuff for free, or you force them into a bad engagement.
Two Cyclones will kill a hatchery now, and can do it at siege range once you've locked-on.
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120 seconds are 120 real seconds now right? Isn't the Carrier build time longer than ever now?
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On October 17 2015 06:19 Musicus wrote:
120 seconds are 120 real seconds now right? Isn't the Carrier build time longer than ever now?
No, its in HotS seconds.
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On October 17 2015 06:12 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2015 06:06 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
So what unit comp is the cyclone supposed to be a part of? It is easily countered by Adept+Phoenix if opened with in TvP. At 120 health it has no place standing up to ling/roach/ravager balls. In TvT it is hard countered by Bio and/or tanks. And with its new lower health pool, you can't even mix it into other comps without risking it dying.
Is it supposed to be a hero unit? Sent out 1 by 1 and runs away from every fight? How are roaches and ravagers going to catch a Cyclone? It outranges and outpaces them heavily off-creep. As for what army compositions they'll be used in? Probably a regular mech army of Tank/Hellbat/Mines/Liberators. Siege up your tanks or liberators, lock-on to buildings or units with your Cyclones and run back to the protection of your main army while killing their shit. So either they lose stuff for free, or you force them into a bad engagement. Two Cyclones will kill a hatchery now, and can do it at siege range once you've locked-on.
It may have absurd single target DPS, but when you play mech, I feel its far better to get more dependable unit like Thor or Siege tank. Cyclone at 120hp is quite fragile and siege tank is your main man when you are playing mech most of time aynway. It would be better to have hellbat as a meatshield with thor doing the damage on ground. That 400hp is better investment while packing a decent punch and blocking big area off.
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On October 17 2015 06:24 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2015 06:19 Musicus wrote:
120 seconds are 120 real seconds now right? Isn't the Carrier build time longer than ever now? No, its in HotS seconds.
Ah okay, then it makes more sense.
Edit: If this was live 2 hours ago, it also explains why my Hydra push after scouting double stargate walked for the first time today. He only had 2 carriers out when I arrived  .
On that note, I actually don't like the change, since I don't think you should limit a unit that's just too powerful by making it nearly impossible to get out. I'd rather just have it's power level toned down a bit instead.
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On October 17 2015 06:26 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2015 06:12 Athenau wrote:On October 17 2015 06:06 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
So what unit comp is the cyclone supposed to be a part of? It is easily countered by Adept+Phoenix if opened with in TvP. At 120 health it has no place standing up to ling/roach/ravager balls. In TvT it is hard countered by Bio and/or tanks. And with its new lower health pool, you can't even mix it into other comps without risking it dying.
Is it supposed to be a hero unit? Sent out 1 by 1 and runs away from every fight? How are roaches and ravagers going to catch a Cyclone? It outranges and outpaces them heavily off-creep. As for what army compositions they'll be used in? Probably a regular mech army of Tank/Hellbat/Mines/Liberators. Siege up your tanks or liberators, lock-on to buildings or units with your Cyclones and run back to the protection of your main army while killing their shit. So either they lose stuff for free, or you force them into a bad engagement. Two Cyclones will kill a hatchery now, and can do it at siege range once you've locked-on. It may have absurd single target DPS, but when you play mech, I feel its far better to get more dependable unit like Thor or Siege tank. Cyclone at 120hp is quite fragile and siege tank is your main man when you are playing mech most of time aynway. It would be better to have hellbat as a meatshield with thor doing the damage on ground. That 400hp is better investment while packing a decent punch and blocking big area off.
You don't need that many. Mix 4 or 5 Cyclones into a tank or liberator-based army and now you get to pick off buildings or expensive units at will while still holding ground. Actually, no need to even bother with tanks now, just use liberators with hellbats and mines for splash while cyclones target buildings.
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Terran late game is still garbage. The cyclone change does nothimg to address that it's still not only bad design, but not useful enough to make mech viable especially vs toss. If blizzard just went with the goliath, a reliable ground to air mech fighter, everything would be better. Instead they are trying to balance the cyclone around its abysmal design, and into a role further from what Terran mech needs. The tank is also so bad right now. Every race got new counters to the tank. The only hope for Terran is to win the midgame convincingly with bio. It still remains to be seen if bio ghost can counter ultralisks. I've had some success but I could also see that being a problem down the line.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
I am certain Blizzard means 64 seconds to 85.3 seconds (real/LotV time)
Yeah, played some games earlier and this change was in already.
They now take 2x as long as tempest and 4x as long as reactored libs
Terran late game is still garbage
Ghosts, liberator. Terran late game is pretty damn nice at the moment and it's easier to get there than ever before in beta
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On October 17 2015 07:31 Cyro wrote:Yeah, played some games earlier and this change was in already. They now take 2x as long as tempest and 4x as long as reactored libs Ghosts, liberator. Terran late game is pretty damn nice at the moment and it's easier to get there than ever before in beta
Liberators and Ghosts do not counter Carriers or Broodlord Viper. The best you can hope for is burrowing some mines under them. Outside of that there is no consistent way to beat those armies as Terran. BCs and Thors could be buffed and I think mech and Terran in general would have a real shot in the late game.
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guys, this is not a mistake.
protoss got cyclone and terran got adept.
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On October 17 2015 07:44 nubHunter wrote:
guys, this is not a mistake.
protoss got cyclone and terran got adept.
So Protoss now has both air and ground Phoenixes, while Terran has 2 types of Reapers?
Makes sense I guess.
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Just remove Terran already.
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Man they just don't give a shit anymore do they?
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
On October 17 2015 07:39 coolman123123 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2015 07:31 Cyro wrote:I am certain Blizzard means 64 seconds to 85.3 seconds (real/LotV time) Yeah, played some games earlier and this change was in already. They now take 2x as long as tempest and 4x as long as reactored libs Terran late game is still garbage Ghosts, liberator. Terran late game is pretty damn nice at the moment and it's easier to get there than ever before in beta Liberators and Ghosts do not counter Carriers or Broodlord Viper. The best you can hope for is burrowing some mines under them. Outside of that there is no consistent way to beat those armies as Terran. BCs and Thors could be buffed and I think mech and Terran in general would have a real shot in the late game.
Yes they do. When's the last time you had 10-30 liberators (20-60 supply of them) against a carrier based army? It's also way harder for toss to get there now. Bio with ghosts and a varying amount of liberators is go-to response against most stuff that toss can do.
5 liberators don't do much but against 12 carriers (72 supply) you can literally build 36 liberators or 8-16 liberators plus a bio army. It's a matter of scale that a lot of people just don't seem to "get" yet.
I'm not saying toss army isn't good in a 200/200 game where both sides have 10k/10k banked, i've just never seen that situation in LOTV. Hitting 200/200 and trading armies while being broke is something that comes up over things like base control or trying to keep a potentially stronger army in check
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So no more big changes. LOTV leaves me behind even more worried. Instead of making the game more skillbased it seems to become even more about versality. On every level I watched and played so far, you have even more possible allins coming your way, especially from the already hated toss. While the early adept rush got figured out pretty fast, and i LOVE the change on warpin at pylons, so toss has to babysit his army more from base/main to the opponent, I don't like the warpin time on the warp prism. There are a lot of things I haven't figured out yet, like how to deal with air toss (besides killing him before he gets there), so I will not call anything imba. Have to wait what the meta says and how pros will deal with it. However (non Protoss related):
One of the main problems/reasons why PPL stopped watching is that the game builds up very long and one sec not looking or bad micro its all over for some. The game should be over small mistakes or small better trades not this one move that wins or loses you the game.
They even tried to reduce damage to make fights last longer. I loved the Idea! I also applauded to blizzard that they tried something big like completely changing the economy... but since all the big changes are made and they won't rework other basic mechanics... I am losing hope for the game already. Will of course wait how the meta develops, but if the game really becomes even more versatile, I will stop caring for SC2. It then has nothing to do with progaming/esport since the game should be about tools that give the better player more chance to show their skills and get small advantages, not lesser players chances to do BS moves, win with some crazy strat or cheese or abusing a special ability/unit.
BTW: i still think Widow Mine should be removed or reworked and also I am waiting for terrans get a lategame unit. All new units and abilitiese help terran in early/mid game. Great that will lead to more allins and if they fail or Terrans try to macro the game out, they face the same old problems since 2010.
Zerg seems to be quite allright, besides I don't know yet what to do vs Skytoss.
Toss seems to be more skillbased on the one side(if you play a straight macro game without trying to bullshit), but also has more abilities that can be abused by players with less skill. Cheesed my way up to masters, just to try it out. In a macro game my toss is ridiculously bad (while my Terran and Zerg is ~ Diamond, Toss is more Gold since it bores me to play it and watch it). There shouldn't be such a huge gap
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Looks like Cyclones are Terran's new best bet for building snipe drops:
- 2 Cyclones have more way more dps than 4 stimmed Marauders.
- 2 Cyclones are dropped faster than 4 Marauders.
- Cyclones can move far away to a safer spot once they locked on a target.
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can someone fix the patch note?
The correct version is already on the battlenet page
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Feeling good about no preorder yet. I do feel bad for making a few friends preorder for beta though - it was looking more promising at the time. :|
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Very disappointing. Nothing relevant is happening, do they think the game is suited for competition right now ? Yeah, I'm being negative and all the stuff, but where are the reasons to be positive ? Everything has been going downhill for quite a few patches now. Their failure on the macro mechanics removal (which was a good idea, but needed to be tested sooner) seems to have melted their brains into marshmallow.
I hope they can push out at least some good changes until release. I've given up on the cyclone, they're adamant on the lock-on thing and the unit being equally good vs air and ground -while everyone knows it should be primarily anti-air, a goliath with an ugly skin- but I hope they (at the very least) revert Chronoboost back to the HotS version, remove invincible Nydus, do something about liberators and give P a chance vs Z ground now that carriers aren't as easy to mass.
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If you think, there's less than a month till release, and they still trying to figure out the new units (and account for the screw ups introduced by previous patches, mostly because they seem to like the "shoot first, use your brain later" paradigm)
I've watched HotS beta progress entirely, from its start to gold, and now LotV ... and there's only one conclusion , art and coding (what you may call it as eye candy) still keeps this game floating , while the actual persons in charge with the numbers ... they keep on sporting mind-boggling resolutions, it's like they are thrown inside a black box and the one that has the most ridiculous idea is able to escape. Yes, this is my current view regarding LotV.
As a disclaimer , i'm an analytical person, so to speak, able to grasp and use abstract concepts, but everything done since late WoL beta till now , makes no sense
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it makes perfect sense. HotS beta was, we try to fill holes we created during WoL patching crap and give new units as people wanted. So they came up with rather good ideas that filled holes. But then they realized people are already at their control limit. So they turned everything into a-move type of units.
LotV also makes sense, if you followed all Blizzard games or game development in general. Since the general attention span of humans is around 30 minutes, game developers want their games to not go on for longer. That explains most changes they did.
The rest is what they noticed people disliked about HotS, the lack of abilities on units. Even if they are autocast.
I bet they would have loved to make LotV run on a 2 base economy, but didn't want to risk the outcry it would result in. But it would solve all their problems. I personally wish they would scrap their 30 minutes per game aim, its not going to work out in a rts anyway.
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On October 18 2015 02:04 FeyFey wrote:
it makes perfect sense. HotS beta was, we try to fill holes we created during WoL patching crap and give new units as people wanted. So they came up with rather good ideas that filled holes. But then they realized people are already at their control limit. So they turned everything into a-move type of units.
LotV also makes sense, if you followed all Blizzard games or game development in general. Since the general attention span of humans is around 30 minutes, game developers want their games to not go on for longer. That explains most changes they did.
The rest is what they noticed people disliked about HotS, the lack of abilities on units. Even if they are autocast.
I bet they would have loved to make LotV run on a 2 base economy, but didn't want to risk the outcry it would result in. But it would solve all their problems. I personally wish they would scrap their 30 minutes per game aim, its not going to work out in a rts anyway.
Did people really complain about that? I thought that the general consensus (at least on TL) was that there are too many units with abilities and it reduces the focus on more traditional micro (splitting, positioning, pulling back injured units) simply because of the greater importance of using these abilities.
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On October 18 2015 02:04 FeyFey wrote:
it makes perfect sense. HotS beta was, we try to fill holes we created during WoL patching crap and give new units as people wanted. So they came up with rather good ideas that filled holes. But then they realized people are already at their control limit. So they turned everything into a-move type of units.
LotV also makes sense, if you followed all Blizzard games or game development in general. Since the general attention span of humans is around 30 minutes, game developers want their games to not go on for longer. That explains most changes they did.
The rest is what they noticed people disliked about HotS, the lack of abilities on units. Even if they are autocast.
I bet they would have loved to make LotV run on a 2 base economy, but didn't want to risk the outcry it would result in. But it would solve all their problems. I personally wish they would scrap their 30 minutes per game aim, its not going to work out in a rts anyway.
Speaking for LotV alone , ravagers/liberators/adepts/disruptors(have to see how they behave after this patch)/vipers with parasitic bomb and carriers (more or less since build time got increased, still there's a problem with fire and forget interceptors skill) aren't following the asymmetric warfare syntagm, which, believe it or not, follows the action/reaction law to the letter
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While I agree with (and have known) since the beginning that the real balance will come when the Koreans set the metagame , I am pretty curios/concerned that there is still LOTS of small tweaks that could be made for all races right now that don't need the Korean GM influence.
Infestors are still bad (sorry David but you are way wrong on this one)
Carriers are now still OP but kind of unreachable? Eh, lazy, inelegant change.
Ultralisks are still retarded durable yet totally a move
Ghosts were buffed back into OP while Infestor was left unviable
Invulnerable Nydus? Still here? Why?
Protoss ground sucks so now Protoss just EXTRA turtles to the hated sky toss
I don't know, the team just feels lazy, coming out with a patch for one unit just because balance is 50/50 seems super ridiculous right now, balance should be of zero concern compared to good unit design right now.
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On October 17 2015 05:13 royalroadweed wrote:
Cyclone is now a protoss unit it seems.
all units seems protoss to me
anyway the carrier got a time increase you skipped that apaprently
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
Infestors are still bad (sorry David but you are way wrong on this one)
There was a reddit thread with a bunch of people asking for range 9 back on neural parasite - without realising that it's been back for like 7 months. How would you know if infestor is bad or not if it's never used? I've not seen a single zerg in many many games research neural and when infestors do come out, it's for fungal
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So
How is supposed a Protoss stand a chance aganist Zerg in a evenly skilled match without going skytoss?
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I wish they would just remove the sentry and buff stalker
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Such a stupid patch.
Literally all the Cyclone needs is its AI fixed. It would be perfectly fine if it didn't constantly attempt to run to its regular range to engage whenever lock-on is activated. As it stands it's impossible to micro them properly without spamming hold-position constantly.
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this is just sad. i seen so many other games that never have patches this weak. we had better see some significant plans for the future soon or i may not buy this game.
i was going to pre-purchase for all the fancy junk but the multiplayer will not be worth $60 to me. i will go to my lan center, which may not get many copies either, and play the story mode there. i'm the ONLY one that cares about that game among a decent size population of gamers. i mean starcraft isn't even on anyone else's radar there but mine. ever.
why do i feel like i could easily make a better starcraft 1v1 multiplayer experience in well under the time it takes before release? patches like these and community feedbacks like yesterday's.
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i dont know what blizzard is doing.
this beta was a waste of time.
they have no idea how to make this game better and they dont listen to us, the guys that play this game.
this was their last chance, but nothing has change, they didnt fix the real issues and they have no clue what to do with new units.
protoss is the worst race by far, the msc should be removed, the disruptor should be removed, the adept is not a core, its early game harras unit, after that, its useless, colos are useless and immortals are weak, and the new PO is a joke.
so, its all the same for protoss, tier 1 units that cant compete with the other races, so we have to go all in fast or wait for tier 3 units, but now we have the disruptor, which is the worst unit ever.
and lurkers are really op vs toss.
and this change to the carrier build time is sad, they have no idea how to make the game better.
User was warned for this post
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Carrier change is sooo unsatisfying (
I would rather have a unit that it reasonable to get that is not super strong than a unit that is impossible to reach that is super strong.. Bleeeh it just feels so lazy.
There are stuff that looks pretty interesting with lotv hence why I am still interested enough to stick around and see how it develops, but I wish blizzard would try more new(old) stuff or at least explain why they are not trying out some of the stuff the community often suggest.
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On October 18 2015 17:04 Gullis wrote:Carrier change is sooo unsatisfying ( I would rather have a unit that it reasonable to get that is not super strong than a unit that is impossible to reach that is super strong.. Bleeeh it just feels so lazy. There are stuff that looks pretty interesting with lotv hence why I am still interested enough to stick around and see how it develops, but I wish blizzard would try more new(old) stuff or at least explain why they are not trying out some of the stuff the community often suggest.
It is indeed very lazy, but they may reduce build time and tone down strength a bit in a next patch. Though I'm losing hope.
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I'm hoping they can do something about this because it confuses me so much
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LsYChNz.png)
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the nearer the release comes, the shorter the patch notes, the more mistakes in patch notes
i love it how blizzard pushes their incompetence into everyones face by not even being able to write 3 lines of coherent patch notes
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On October 18 2015 22:24 summerloud wrote:
the nearer the release comes, the shorter the patch notes, the more mistakes in patch notes
i love it how blizzard pushes their incompetence into everyones face by not even being able to write 3 lines of coherent patch notes
Pardon? Where do these patch notes not make sense?
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no changes on ghost? protoss ground still shit compared to terran dps. Ghosts moves to fast >_<
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On October 18 2015 23:02 shin_toss wrote:
protoss ground still shit compared to terran dps
Like in BW right? Wohoo yay lets do a community wide high five
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i played some C&C3 and Kane's Wrath this weekend. then i went back to LotV. i had forgotten how the pace of a C&C game feels.
i know the pace of SC is faster due to the starting working count and camping on minerals is less possible due to the 750 mineral fields.. but damn..
Starcraft feels so much more like a C&C game than i remembered.
HotS and WoL feel like 100% Starcraft.
LotV feels like 70% Starcraft and 30% C&C
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I don't know why I come into these threads looking for constructive discussions anymore. This is a cesspool of negative reinforcement.
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Hiho,
is there any overview of all patches that have been released in LotV? I haven't played the beta for some time now and i don't even know if there is auto-injects or not in the current version^^
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
On October 19 2015 02:30 MyrionSC wrote:
I don't know why I come into these threads looking for constructive discussions anymore. This is a cesspool of negative reinforcement.
Why wouldn't it be? It's the same on reddit. A lot of people are not happy with the direction beta has been changed to
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On October 17 2015 05:49 ROOTFayth wrote:
damn pvz is going to be a nightmare lol, ground zerg is just sooooooooooo strong
Build Disruptors, problem solved.
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On October 19 2015 06:11 Moonsalt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2015 05:49 ROOTFayth wrote:
damn pvz is going to be a nightmare lol, ground zerg is just sooooooooooo strong Build Disruptors, problem solved.
I wish it was that simple
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At this point they only nerf or do stupid changes.
Then cant balance at all.
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On October 19 2015 03:32 Scrubwave wrote:
I, for one, can't wait for LOTV to be released, I'm sure it will be entertaining in its launch. Like all train-wrecks.
Your name fits the game's state pretty well right now. Ironically. Just a bunch of nonsense patches...
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Blizzard should offer a cash incentive/reward if a player can find a real use for the cyclone.
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On October 19 2015 02:30 MyrionSC wrote:
I don't know why I come into these threads looking for constructive discussions anymore. This is a cesspool of negative reinforcement.
Yup. I've had so much fun playing LOTV recently.
There are new strategies to figure out. I guess if you don't like figuring out new strategies, then you might not like LOTV. In which case, I don't know why you are playing a strategy game, but whatever.
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I had some guy in ladder telling me it was fucking stupid that builds weren't figured out and he hated it because he said I had shitty mechanics but I only won because of better build order, to me starcraft becomes a lot more boring when the meta settles and it becomes stale like hots
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On October 19 2015 02:30 MyrionSC wrote:
I don't know why I come into these threads looking for constructive discussions anymore. This is a cesspool of negative reinforcement.
so we are supposed to have constructive discussions about carrier build time or praise the cyclone change?
the community had constructive discussions for months which blizzard chose to ignore. everyone is tired about suggesting stuff since nothing will be implemented anyways.
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Seriously? Still nothing about the 8-armor ultra, parasitic bomb and the lame mothership core?
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On October 19 2015 03:32 Scrubwave wrote:
I, for one, can't wait for LOTV to be released, I'm sure it will be entertaining in its launch. Like all train-wrecks.
heh XD
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I'm already sick of playing vs skytoss and the game isn't even released. Blizzard pls
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Y'know, I see a lot of complaints about skytoss, but I haven't see skytoss is weeks.
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On October 20 2015 02:13 InfCereal wrote:
Y'know, I see a lot of complaints about skytoss, but I haven't see skytoss is weeks.
Stalkers/Sentry/Disruptor all ins
Just camp and throw shots, use FF and Stalker to protect the Disruptors
If the enemy doesn't have alot of Muta or Liberator his fucked.
Disruptors damage is to much
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On October 19 2015 15:31 ROOTFayth wrote:
I had some guy in ladder telling me it was fucking stupid that builds weren't figured out and he hated it because he said I had shitty mechanics but I only won because of better build order, to me starcraft becomes a lot more boring when the meta settles and it becomes stale like hots
Agreed. A stale meta is what kills an RTS for me. Even though I think mechanics should play a huge role.
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On October 20 2015 02:13 InfCereal wrote:
Y'know, I see a lot of complaints about skytoss, but I haven't see skytoss is weeks.
lol what its like the majority of zvps, protoss taking no risk 3rd base and camping with air.
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On October 20 2015 03:56 91matt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 02:13 InfCereal wrote:
Y'know, I see a lot of complaints about skytoss, but I haven't see skytoss is weeks. lol what its like the majority of zvps, protoss taking no risk 3rd base and camping with air.
Guess I'm getting lucky. I've played maybe 3 games against air toss in a few hundred games.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
On October 20 2015 04:02 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 03:56 91matt wrote:On October 20 2015 02:13 InfCereal wrote:
Y'know, I see a lot of complaints about skytoss, but I haven't see skytoss is weeks. lol what its like the majority of zvps, protoss taking no risk 3rd base and camping with air. Guess I'm getting lucky. I've played maybe 3 games against air toss in a few hundred games.
What are toss generally doing V zerg if not air? disruptor vs lurker?
Main reason for playing air every game for me is actually mutalisk, since those of us playing from the UK have a 0.3 second unit control lag (a ping of ~170-250 and then a 0.1 second additional delay from game engine and playing with/against people across the world) to the beta which makes it extremely frustrating to deal with muta styles without pre-emptively stopping them or blobbing them with a ton of air units
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I think it's time the Lurker and Disruptor get a bit toned down, the Lurker is obviously super strong vs. Toss ground armies and the Disruptor was way over buffed so that Protoss ground/robo comps could stand a chance but at the moment Disruptors seem super accessible for how much game ending damage they put out.
I'll play games where 2 shots from them will kill 30 - 40 supply no problem, splitting Roach Hydra vs. the Disruptor shots is like splitting unstimmed bio vs speed banes on creep. They wouldn't need to be THIS strong if the Lurker didn't kind of hard counter Protoss ground.
Any Zergs having better luck vs them then I am? Once 3 - 5 Disruptors hit the field it seems like going for a full Spire/Ling transition is like your only chance.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
They wouldn't need to be THIS strong if the Lurker didn't kind of hard counter Protoss ground.
It's the same situation with terran, though. Protoss without carriers or disruptors is completely shit against terran and probably not very good against zerg (i have no experience there in lotv)
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On October 21 2015 09:40 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +They wouldn't need to be THIS strong if the Lurker didn't kind of hard counter Protoss ground. It's the same situation with terran, though. Protoss without carriers or disruptors is completely shit against terran and probably not very good against zerg (i have no experience there in lotv)
Oh yea I agree with that Disruptors are totally needed vs. Terran at the moment, especially after Adepts got a bit over nerfed in the last patch.
And despite my frustrations, I stand by this statement completely, Disruptors are a WAY better unit then the Colossus, both in terms of the skill ceiling and that the unit pretty much forces counter micro which is always fantastic, it's just too damn strong for how accessible it is at the moment.
If it must be OP due to how badly Lurkers and bio shits on Protoss ground armies then maybe it's time for the balance team to stop being so timid and actually make changes to Gateway unit stats so they can compete better and tone down these high burst damage units that wipes out 40 supply of army in an instant once you have 5+ of them (Lurkers/Disruptors/Carriers)
I still think that Adepts should stay this weak early on but the upgrade should make them effective mid game to late units that should start phasing out Zealots except in terms of Prism drops, they shouldn't have to suck because they were too OP early game, they already sucked past the mid game and now they just really suck.
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On October 21 2015 08:07 jpg06051992 wrote:
I think it's time the Lurker and Disruptor get a bit toned down, the Lurker is obviously super strong vs. Toss ground armies and the Disruptor was way over buffed so that Protoss ground/robo comps could stand a chance but at the moment Disruptors seem super accessible for how much game ending damage they put out.
I'll play games where 2 shots from them will kill 30 - 40 supply no problem, splitting Roach Hydra vs. the Disruptor shots is like splitting unstimmed bio vs speed banes on creep. They wouldn't need to be THIS strong if the Lurker didn't kind of hard counter Protoss ground.
Any Zergs having better luck vs them then I am? Once 3 - 5 Disruptors hit the field it seems like going for a full Spire/Ling transition is like your only chance.
I highly recommend still committing to lurkers even when protoss gets 3-5 disruptors out. If you spread them out a ton, the protoss has to waste 2 disruptor shots just to kill 1-2 lurkers, and if they do this continuously, it means that the protoss basically has no AoE for the actual army cos the shots have to be wasted killing small amounts of lurkers. Combine that with mass overseers to continuously snipe observers or force them into a safe position where they can't see many of the lurkers, and you basically have a strong win condition right there.
In my experience it works similar to how Protoss can be behind in economy and army and everything, but then find a ridiculous position with forcefields and instawin the game regardless. I feel you can do the same with lurkers if you can force the protoss to engage you, you'll make them regret ever building a wall at their natural.
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I can't be the only one to think that blizzard is basically spending all their beta-time nerfing their new features, when the reality was that basically each thing they've nerfed so far was mindboggling off in terms of stats for everyone to see, but for some reason it got implemented nevertheless...
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EPT
