EPTCommunity Feedback Update - September 4 - Page 3
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
I felt some serious schadenfreudey "I told ya so" pride after that part. | ||
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johnbongham
451 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On September 05 2015 03:37 jakethesnake wrote: Game is too easy or too difficult due to macro changes discussions The game is always as hard as your opponent. Even if every can macro perfectly (which they absolutely false), so what? Everyone can a-move perfectly too. | ||
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xtorn
4060 Posts
We’d also like to remind everyone that the direction we’ve taken here has come out of the community summit where top-tier Korean pro players nearly unanimously said that even HotS is way too difficult to master in all aspects. As we discussed the topic with them, reducing the clicks and work needed on macro mechanics was the best solution we came up with in that discussion group. We just wanted to point this out, because there does seem to be some disconnect between the Korean pro players’ opinions vs. some crowds of people making conclusions on what they believe Korean pros would think on these changes. I find this paragraph very interesting. Core changes were discussed with the top-tier koreans and they approved them. This is the correct approach they should have taken, and I'm glad they did. It kinda gives me a very cozy feeling now that they did the right thing. On September 05 2015 07:18 Lexender wrote: Or he is telling the truth, after all I'm pretty sure he has talked with more korean progamers than anybody in TL Exactly. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On September 05 2015 17:46 xtorn wrote: I find this paragraph very interesting. Core changes were discussed with the top-tier koreans and they approved them. This is the correct approach they should have taken, and I'm glad they did. It kinda gives me a very cozy feeling now that they did the right thing. I doubt they all thought the same on the issue or that the changes were perfect, still we don't know what they actually think. | ||
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xtorn
4060 Posts
On September 05 2015 17:52 Ansibled wrote: I doubt they all thought the same on the issue or that the changes were perfect, still we don't know what they actually think. It says "nearly unanimously" so your doubt is already correct - not all thought the same, some opposed or were neutral to the idea, but were in the minority. I don't think it's necessary to disect and overthink "but exactly how many of the top-tier koreans agreed to this" or which ones precisely; to me this phrasing points out that they discussed the difficulty topic with a significant portion of top-tiers, since it's in their best interest to not ruin the game for those who use it to make a living. | ||
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Ketch
Netherlands7285 Posts
Just give the corruptors and ability to kamikaze into the ground after being shoot out from the hatchery carry units to battle like those air drops. That will be the Zerg version of warp in, though expensive as the corruptor dies on impact to the ground. Requires vision.  From BlueZero(?) on Battle.net I like this idea for the corrupter -> suicide and destroy ground things - spawn some broodlings maybe | ||
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Penev
28477 Posts
But pls remove the liberator | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 05 2015 19:27 KeksX wrote: I'd love to see how the new patch plays out in ZvP and ZvT, but all I get is ZvZ. Not kidding, just had my thirtiest ZvZ in a row. I started to leave all of them but I still get exclusively ZvZ. Zerg confirmed too much fun for the game without injects. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On September 05 2015 19:33 Big J wrote: Zerg confirmed too much fun for the game without injects. Wouldn't be too bad if they weren't all turtling... Thats the main reason I leave, a ZvZ atm is a sure way to face someone spamming queens and lurkers to tech to ultras. Thats fun once in a while but not 30 times in a row. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On September 05 2015 11:28 johnbongham wrote: Shuda just nerfed all 3 macro mechanics and make them less effective, not completely change the way they work. That way the best macro players will still outshine those who dont macro as well but not overwhelmingly especially at lower levels. Not going to buy lotv if the final version goes the way it is right now. Yea all those poor lower league players who lose games because they didn't Chrono Boost enough! | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
On September 05 2015 06:38 Charoisaur wrote: maybe DK misinterpreted it... Or he just asked a small number of koreans who have another opinion than the other koreans. + Show Spoiler + or he's just lying I remember flash and others complaining multiple times that macro is to easy in sc2 and players can't really differentiate themselves through macro. I doubt they have changed their opinion. none of`em. It is delivered PERFECTLY. | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
On September 05 2015 19:55 ZAiNs wrote: Yea all those poor lower league players who lose games because they didn't Chrono Boost enough! taking in mind that Blizzard already made 12 workers instead of 6, auto rally at the game start, and now auto macro mechanics, everything to make silver scrubs happier even tho it won't help them to play better. why didn't they made everything automatic? auto worker/building/unit creation and so on? this game should be complex and hard in all possible aspects, not easier than previos addons, either the same or even harder. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 05 2015 19:47 KeksX wrote: Wouldn't be too bad if they weren't all turtling... Thats the main reason I leave, a ZvZ atm is a sure way to face someone spamming queens and lurkers to tech to ultras. Thats fun once in a while but not 30 times in a row. play some games against me :D i almost always go muta/ling/queen with heavy harassment into about 10 lurkers to buy time for a brood lord switch (if my opponent is going heavy ground), and let me tell you my lategame zvzs are really really fucking fun. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
=> put back the old macro mechs => cut the ridiculous pylon overcharge : how did that made it past internal testing??? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Techlab requirement on a reactorable unit for terran has always been a semi-viable thing. It works for marines with stim and shields in bio builds that build more than one rax anyways. It works for hellions in mech-builds because you get more than one factory anyways. In TvZ there is this old, semi-viable cheese build with 2factories and blue flame that can transition into mech or bio. And widow mines in TvZ will eventually be upgraded from a second or third factory in bio/mine/thor builds. But the process of getting such an upgrade is always a very commited, or very late play. So I personally feel like this isn't a good solution, I think it will push the liberator far back or maybe even completely out of the metagame. This is of course a bit of theorycrafting and not something tested, but I think there could be nicer solutions. For example, the AG mode could unlock with a fusion core instead of the armory. This would mean that you don't unlock hellbat transformation and liberator AG at the same time, so you don't have the combined rush power. You still have the old hellbat rush, and possibly a new liberator rush. But not the combination of both that is very hard to prepare for. And in a non-rush game, building a 150/150 fusion core is much easier than having a second techlabed starport upgrading for an upgrade that will cost like 150/150 on top of that. And the fusion core also unlocks the underused banshee speed and battlecruiser techs, giving terran more options in the process than the second starport to upgrade does. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On September 05 2015 17:07 SnowfaLL wrote: You are so right.. People seem to think that anything that doesnt let them 3hatch before pool is considered "cheese" Anything that doesnt let terran CC first is cheese. It's sickening that the definition of cheese or all-in is basically anything that doesn't let a player be comfortable. This game NEEDS more aggressive builds to punish the super macro openings. Thats the biggest thing I hate about SC2 - theres too many "safe" macro builds. If you 3 hatch before pool and your opponent doesnt nexus/cc first, you should be punished. Thats what made BW so good, the only person who could consistently do super greedy macro openings and hold it was Flash, because hes super-human.. Thanks. It's a silly, but persistent conversation. Kinda like the skill ceiling one. Both unnecessary, save for maybe philosophical exercise. The professional commentators use the term cheese, of course, perpetuating the negative connotation and pejorative usage here in the community. Any type of qualifiers I see, like high risk, relies on hiding information, easier to execute than it is to hold, etc ... It's all completely subjective and relative, or, in other words, near-meaningless. This, and all-in. Ugh. Anyway ... Big J, They originally had the upgrade on the Tech Lab and then moved it, because it belongs as unlockable via Armory. So the hellbat Liberator rush attack was difficult to hold. Are there not dozens of difficult-to-hold rush attacks in this game? Isn't that kinda the idea of a RTS, no? | ||
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