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Community Feedback Update - August 28 - Page 6

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
445 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 23 Next All
ohmylanta1003
Profile Joined February 2015
United States128 Posts
August 28 2015 19:56 GMT
#101
God. Everyone here is so fucking entitled. It's ridiculous.
Ventil
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden414 Posts
August 28 2015 19:57 GMT
#102
We hade the exact same public outcry when blizzard introduced multiple building selection.
Same thing with auto rally.
Same thing with auto-split workers.

Take a chill pill, wait for the changes to hit the beta servers, test it out and then voice your concerns.

I've been playing SC2 since WoL Beta, and I find these changes interesting, especially the Chronoboost change seems elegant and simple, and fits perfectly with Blizzards new direction stated in the bluepost.
Twitter: @VeNtiLSC
Aron Times
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States312 Posts
August 28 2015 19:57 GMT
#103
On August 29 2015 04:54 andrewlt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 04:25 Linear wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:22 Tenks wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:20 Linear wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:12 Charoisaur wrote:
It's hard to give constructive feedback when the balance updates look like some trolls who never played sc2 rolled a dice and put some random changes in the game they thought would be "cool".
I always hope blizzard gets their shit together and makes LotV an awesome game but with every community update I'm getting more and more dissapointed


It's in part due to the fact that some of the most vocal people are gold leaguers or intermittent players. Another problem blizzard forget is that you only stay new for so long this is the final expansion the goal should be longevity of player enjoyment rather than a perceived short term gain because the game is now easier for newer players.
I wish there was a weighted voting system which is based off the percentage of people in a league so a GM or Masters vote is valued more than a gold league player.



The arrogance of this community it honestly astounding at times


You gold league? It's not arrogant to view someone who has more knowledge in the game as a better voice/opinion.
You think that a guy with 200 games knows more about how to send this game in a good direction that a player with 5k games?


I find it ironic that the master Korean race is the one complaining that the game is too hard while shitty foreigners are raging about the casualization of the game.

I gained a lot of respect for the Korean pros for this. I mean, I already put them on a pedestal like the rest of us have, but it's quite commendable that they actually acknowledge the problems in this game, when they could've just continued their dominance if the status quo remained.
"The drums! The drums! The drums! The neverending drumbeat! Open me, you human fool! Open the light and summon me and receive my majesty!"
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
August 28 2015 19:57 GMT
#104
That's very inelegant ... and disappointing.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
August 28 2015 19:59 GMT
#105
On August 29 2015 04:55 Creager wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 04:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:35 Clonester wrote:
Legacy of the Automation


sorry this just a joke. Everything gets automated. Soon Marinesplits, Banelingsplits and everything else, all automated...

Every community update makes me more sick and hoping for Heart of the Swarm will stick forever as main SC II game.

They want to encourage micro. They're not gonna make splits auto or make a split button like this is Red Alert 2. People are overreacting. I can't believe I'm defending Blizzard, but really this is silly.


OR people are just really confused about the direction Blizz is going with LotV, myself included. Using autocast macroboosters to encourage more micro is a complete joke tbh. I for my part don't want the game to be like this, I've never asked for these kind of changes.
They changed the starting workers to 12 and never tried out other options, but some people don't really like having 12 starting workers, myself included. Why don't they test those kind of things, but do shitty stuff like this?!

I totally agree that the fact they never tried any other economy models is completely fucking stupid and I'm very disappointed in them for that. I would have at least like to try DH model.

But really, what does making these autocast change? Dropping MULEs isn't a skill, and MULEs caused problems in the late game and that is now solved. Chronoboosting is similar enough that it's not that big of a deal, and larva inject was way too important for zerg and was very very frustrating for lower level players.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
August 28 2015 20:02 GMT
#106
do you know what's FUN? ... manner mules! Now I'm going to have to fly and land an orbital near my opponent to do so!!

Honestly, it's not that I dislike this change (or the previous "removal")... it's that they didn't anticipate any of the problems nor did they try anything to fix them (I don't count this partial revert as a fix).

ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-28 20:04:15
August 28 2015 20:02 GMT
#107
On August 29 2015 04:56 ohmylanta1003 wrote:
God. Everyone here is so fucking entitled. It's ridiculous.


Can we stop with these comments? Lol this is the beta, we are supposed to give feedback, and tons of it. When things are going the wrong way, you better damn voice your opinion, otherwise what's the point of even participating in beta testing??
SooYoung-Noona!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
August 28 2015 20:04 GMT
#108
I don't understand the hate for the automatization in itself as a mechanic. Something automated is something you don't have to control in the game, it is literally the same thing as not having it to begin with controlwise.
I understand the argument about making macro hard (even though I don't support it), but I can't understand the stance that abilities must not be automated ever. That just doesn't make sense.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
August 28 2015 20:07 GMT
#109
so when are they adding production hacks in?
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15924 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-28 20:10:10
August 28 2015 20:08 GMT
#110
On August 29 2015 04:56 Eternal Dalek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 04:47 Charoisaur wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:34 Eternal Dalek wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:20 Linear wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:12 Charoisaur wrote:
It's hard to give constructive feedback when the balance updates look like some trolls who never played sc2 rolled a dice and put some random changes in the game they thought would be "cool".
I always hope blizzard gets their shit together and makes LotV an awesome game but with every community update I'm getting more and more dissapointed


It's in part due to the fact that some of the most vocal people are gold leaguers or intermittent players. Another problem blizzard forget is that you only stay new for so long this is the final expansion the goal should be longevity of player enjoyment rather than a perceived short term gain because the game is now easier for newer players.
I wish there was a weighted voting system which is based off the percentage of people in a league so a GM or Masters vote is valued more than a gold league player.

The vast majority of players ARE gold leaguers and intermittent players. You cannot build a game for the elite 1% alone. You cannot have a successful game that only casters to Masters and Grandmasters while leaving everyone below the best of the best frustrated and unsatisfied. I think you're forgetting that TL.net is made up of better-than-average players as well as actual progamers, outliers who are alright with the status quo. TL.net posters are the minority. A well-informed, highly-skilled minority, but a minority nevertheless.

Making the game easier will not suddenly make gold scrubs like Eternal Dalek win games against players like you. You will still kick my ass 99% of the time, but the game will be much less frustrating for lesser-skilled players like me. Basically, you'll have much more people to play with if the game is much more accessible.

Also, what they're really lowering is the skill floor, not the skill ceiling. The skill ceiling remains impossibly high. The skill floor is now much lower. This means that more people can play and enjoy the game, but the best of the best remains in their unassailable fortress of skill. I know a lot of people here confuse the skill floor with the skill ceiling; most of the time, when people say that Blizzard/Valve/Riot/whatever is dumbing down Starcraft/DotA/LoL and lowering the skill ceiling, what they really mean is that the skill floor is being lowered and the game is more accessible.


I will never understand what this "more accessable for casuals" means.
As a low level player you always face players at similar skill with equally bad macro/micro.
Making mechanics easier does nothing to decrease their frustration because they will lose 50% of the time regardless.
The only difference will be that they lost because they fucked up their micro or got caught offguard instead of losing because they missed their injects.
Is that less frustrating? I don't think so.

Do you mean that you're unable to empathize with lesser-skilled players? Are you simply unable to see it from our perspective?

A wise man once said that players are generally right about what's wrong with the game, but are generally wrong with how to fix it. The vast majority of Starcraft 2 players, not just the active player base of around 200k, but everyone who bought SC1 and/or SC2, generally agree that the game is too hard and too frustrating to play. Most people are wrong about how to fix it without destroying the core gameplay.

I have more faith in someone whose livelihood is based on the success or failure of Starcraft 2 (David Kim, Dustin Browder, etc.) than someone who cannot or will not try to understand how other players feel. David Kim and Dustin Browder acknowledge the actual problems instead of just dismissing them as the signs of unskilled play.

you didn't answer my question at all.
My point is, in every multiplayer game the difficulty is determined by your opponent not by the game.
Making macro mechanics easier doesn't make the game easier it only shifts the things you have to be good at from macro to micro. If you think casual players generally like micro more than macro then you may have a point but as long as you always lose 50% of your games the game will stay as frustrating as it is.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Haighstrom
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom198 Posts
August 28 2015 20:08 GMT
#111
Sadly I guess DK only looks to Koreans for feedback. RIP zerg macro, RIP soo. SC2: The Frozen Throne is here.
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
August 28 2015 20:10 GMT
#112
On August 29 2015 04:57 Eternal Dalek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 04:54 andrewlt wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:25 Linear wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:22 Tenks wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:20 Linear wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:12 Charoisaur wrote:
It's hard to give constructive feedback when the balance updates look like some trolls who never played sc2 rolled a dice and put some random changes in the game they thought would be "cool".
I always hope blizzard gets their shit together and makes LotV an awesome game but with every community update I'm getting more and more dissapointed


It's in part due to the fact that some of the most vocal people are gold leaguers or intermittent players. Another problem blizzard forget is that you only stay new for so long this is the final expansion the goal should be longevity of player enjoyment rather than a perceived short term gain because the game is now easier for newer players.
I wish there was a weighted voting system which is based off the percentage of people in a league so a GM or Masters vote is valued more than a gold league player.



The arrogance of this community it honestly astounding at times


You gold league? It's not arrogant to view someone who has more knowledge in the game as a better voice/opinion.
You think that a guy with 200 games knows more about how to send this game in a good direction that a player with 5k games?


I find it ironic that the master Korean race is the one complaining that the game is too hard while shitty foreigners are raging about the casualization of the game.

I gained a lot of respect for the Korean pros for this. I mean, I already put them on a pedestal like the rest of us have, but it's quite commendable that they actually acknowledge the problems in this game, when they could've just continued their dominance if the status quo remained.


Well, I do agree that the reasoning behind the changes is good for the game. However, I feel like the autocast solution is an effort to get the game out by December. Removing the unnecessary macro mechanics and rebalancing around that would take too long. So I agree with the disappointment of the older fans as well since the old Blizzard would do what is necessary and just delay the game's release if they need to.
DeepBurrow
Profile Joined August 2015
49 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-28 20:11:37
August 28 2015 20:11 GMT
#113
Im so god damn upset and cringy cuz nothing is said about Infestor and SwarmHost. God dammit.
BaronVonOwn
Profile Joined April 2011
299 Posts
August 28 2015 20:13 GMT
#114
On August 29 2015 04:56 ohmylanta1003 wrote:
God. Everyone here is so fucking entitled. It's ridiculous.

Actually, Blizzard is not entitled to my money and they've made it clear through these community updates that they appreciate the feedback. It's free information and market data and the only reason we give it is because we love Starcraft. Starcraft's saving grace right now is its devoted community so how about you stop shitting on it?
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
August 28 2015 20:13 GMT
#115
definitely not going in a direction I like, so that sucks a lot.. Guess games might still look cool enough but i dont think i'll be playing anymore
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
Linear
Profile Blog Joined August 2015
60 Posts
August 28 2015 20:18 GMT
#116
On August 29 2015 04:50 Eternal Dalek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 04:30 starimk wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:25 Linear wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:22 Tenks wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:20 Linear wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:12 Charoisaur wrote:
It's hard to give constructive feedback when the balance updates look like some trolls who never played sc2 rolled a dice and put some random changes in the game they thought would be "cool".
I always hope blizzard gets their shit together and makes LotV an awesome game but with every community update I'm getting more and more dissapointed


It's in part due to the fact that some of the most vocal people are gold leaguers or intermittent players. Another problem blizzard forget is that you only stay new for so long this is the final expansion the goal should be longevity of player enjoyment rather than a perceived short term gain because the game is now easier for newer players.
I wish there was a weighted voting system which is based off the percentage of people in a league so a GM or Masters vote is valued more than a gold league player.



The arrogance of this community it honestly astounding at times


You gold league? It's not arrogant to view someone who has more knowledge in the game as a better voice/opinion.
You think that a guy with 200 games knows more about how to send this game in a good direction that a player with 5k games?


Um, that kinda is the definition of arrogant Good ideas can come from anywhere.

I love how he pretty much proved the quoted poster's point. :D

I can't find the articles right now, but over the years, many players have asked Wizards of the Coast why they print bad/gimmicky/silly cards in Magic: The Gathering. None of the pros, who spend thousands of dollars on a single deck every few months or so, will ever pay for any of these cards. Also, some have asked why some useless cards like Browbeat have a higher-than-normal secondary market value.

The answer to this is that while the pros spend a considerable amount of money on the game individually, collectively, the rest of us MTG scrubs outspend them by a lot. Basically, WotC makes most of its Magic revenue not from the Magic progamers, but from casual scrubs like Eternal Dalek who can't even get past Gold in Starcraft 2. The pro scene does drive card sales, especially individual card sales, a.k.a. "singles," but it's still only a small fraction of the total Magic sales.

The same applies to Starcraft 2 and Blizzard. How many players are there in GM? A thousand, right? How many current players are there in HotS? According to this site:

http://nios.kr/sc2/global/1v1/hots/

There are 799 Grandmasters out of 224,600 accounts. That's 0.36% of the active player base. If we add Masters to that (10,972 or 4.89%), we go up to 5.25% of the active player base (those who bothered to play ranked and haven't quit by now). Are you going to ignore 94.75% of the player base just to cater to the top 5.25%? Remember that they all had to pay to play like the rest of us. Are you going to cater to the five people that gave you $1 each, or the 95 people who gave you $1 each? The answer is no, you shouldn't ignore the majority. You should listen to the highly-skilled minority more, but you shouldn't completely ignore everyone else.

Remember, the 94.75% of Diamond and below players only represents the active player base. It doesn't count people like me who gave up on the game years ago. We still count. We represent the bulk of revenue Blizzard earned from Starcraft 2. We should not, and cannot be ignored.


First off the definition of arrogance is not even close to what I said, valuing a more experienced person opinion isn't an exaggerated position of self worth.
Secondly don't people play this game currently at these low leagues, the audience they feel they will attract or gain with these changes is an audience that is yet to have shown itself and they do this at the detriment of the core players they already have seems like a bad idea?

You are a perfect case in point, you don't even play this game anymore and you never attained a good knowledge of this game yet you want to discuss key design points that affect the very state of the game?
Lower league players are fine for discussing the things that they want achieved (ie lower skill floor, more noticeable/rewarding micro) but when it comes to discussing the implementation I find their input lacking.
Creager
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1893 Posts
August 28 2015 20:18 GMT
#117
On August 29 2015 04:59 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 04:55 Creager wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:39 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:35 Clonester wrote:
Legacy of the Automation


sorry this just a joke. Everything gets automated. Soon Marinesplits, Banelingsplits and everything else, all automated...

Every community update makes me more sick and hoping for Heart of the Swarm will stick forever as main SC II game.

They want to encourage micro. They're not gonna make splits auto or make a split button like this is Red Alert 2. People are overreacting. I can't believe I'm defending Blizzard, but really this is silly.


OR people are just really confused about the direction Blizz is going with LotV, myself included. Using autocast macroboosters to encourage more micro is a complete joke tbh. I for my part don't want the game to be like this, I've never asked for these kind of changes.
They changed the starting workers to 12 and never tried out other options, but some people don't really like having 12 starting workers, myself included. Why don't they test those kind of things, but do shitty stuff like this?!

I totally agree that the fact they never tried any other economy models is completely fucking stupid and I'm very disappointed in them for that. I would have at least like to try DH model.

But really, what does making these autocast change? Dropping MULEs isn't a skill, and MULEs caused problems in the late game and that is now solved. Chronoboosting is similar enough that it's not that big of a deal, and larva inject was way too important for zerg and was very very frustrating for lower level players.


I agree that MULES in HotS are indeed kinda problematic, however there is actually skill (well, thought, at least) involved when deciding to scan OR mule if you're low on energy and can't have both. I just don't like that more and more stuff is taken care of automatically (fuck auto worker rally, scan radius etc).
Experience is a major factor when playing this game, it can be brutal and devastatingly frustrating to play Starcraft, I think we all know and kinda love that. This will still be an obstacle to overcome for new players and having autocast macro abilities is just less stuff people have to show-off their skill. Leveling the playing field that way is the wrong approach imho.

... einmal mit Profis spielen!
ohmylanta1003
Profile Joined February 2015
United States128 Posts
August 28 2015 20:19 GMT
#118
On August 29 2015 05:02 ffadicted wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 04:56 ohmylanta1003 wrote:
God. Everyone here is so fucking entitled. It's ridiculous.


Can we stop with these comments? Lol this is the beta, we are supposed to give feedback, and tons of it. When things are going the wrong way, you better damn voice your opinion, otherwise what's the point of even participating in beta testing??


Lol. Cause the feedback people are giving back in this thread is so constructive, right? Give me a break.
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8304 Posts
August 28 2015 20:19 GMT
#119
How's this for an idea: If mule is autocast with no energy (only cooldown), then why not also give it to the planetary fortress?

I know that sounds like a pretty huge buff to planetary, but as it stands now, the choice will be between getting mules, and your choice of scans or supply drops, and also the ability to lift versus a large, expensive cannon.

If PF has mule, there's still plenty of choice there, especially since you're going to want to have a few orbitals in order to lift them in the late game and move them towards resources. Plus, orbitals don't require gas.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
Haighstrom
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom198 Posts
August 28 2015 20:21 GMT
#120
On August 29 2015 05:19 ohmylanta1003 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 05:02 ffadicted wrote:
On August 29 2015 04:56 ohmylanta1003 wrote:
God. Everyone here is so fucking entitled. It's ridiculous.


Can we stop with these comments? Lol this is the beta, we are supposed to give feedback, and tons of it. When things are going the wrong way, you better damn voice your opinion, otherwise what's the point of even participating in beta testing??


Lol. Cause the feedback people are giving back in this thread is so constructive, right? Give me a break.


The feedback in this thread is overwhelmingly "we want macro back". If enough people say it, maybe they'll listen?
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