Community Feedback Update - August 28 - Page 6
Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
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Ventil
Sweden414 Posts
Same thing with auto rally. Same thing with auto-split workers. Take a chill pill, wait for the changes to hit the beta servers, test it out and then voice your concerns. I've been playing SC2 since WoL Beta, and I find these changes interesting, especially the Chronoboost change seems elegant and simple, and fits perfectly with Blizzards new direction stated in the bluepost. | ||
Aron Times
United States312 Posts
On August 29 2015 04:54 andrewlt wrote: I find it ironic that the master Korean race is the one complaining that the game is too hard while shitty foreigners are raging about the casualization of the game. I gained a lot of respect for the Korean pros for this. I mean, I already put them on a pedestal like the rest of us have, but it's quite commendable that they actually acknowledge the problems in this game, when they could've just continued their dominance if the status quo remained. | ||
Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On August 29 2015 04:55 Creager wrote: OR people are just really confused about the direction Blizz is going with LotV, myself included. Using autocast macroboosters to encourage more micro is a complete joke tbh. I for my part don't want the game to be like this, I've never asked for these kind of changes. They changed the starting workers to 12 and never tried out other options, but some people don't really like having 12 starting workers, myself included. Why don't they test those kind of things, but do shitty stuff like this?! I totally agree that the fact they never tried any other economy models is completely fucking stupid and I'm very disappointed in them for that. I would have at least like to try DH model. But really, what does making these autocast change? Dropping MULEs isn't a skill, and MULEs caused problems in the late game and that is now solved. Chronoboosting is similar enough that it's not that big of a deal, and larva inject was way too important for zerg and was very very frustrating for lower level players. | ||
y0su
Finland7871 Posts
Honestly, it's not that I dislike this change (or the previous "removal")... it's that they didn't anticipate any of the problems nor did they try anything to fix them (I don't count this partial revert as a fix). | ||
ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
On August 29 2015 04:56 ohmylanta1003 wrote: God. Everyone here is so fucking entitled. It's ridiculous. Can we stop with these comments? Lol this is the beta, we are supposed to give feedback, and tons of it. When things are going the wrong way, you better damn voice your opinion, otherwise what's the point of even participating in beta testing?? | ||
Big J
Austria16289 Posts
I understand the argument about making macro hard (even though I don't support it), but I can't understand the stance that abilities must not be automated ever. That just doesn't make sense. | ||
Ej_
47656 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15883 Posts
On August 29 2015 04:56 Eternal Dalek wrote: Do you mean that you're unable to empathize with lesser-skilled players? Are you simply unable to see it from our perspective? A wise man once said that players are generally right about what's wrong with the game, but are generally wrong with how to fix it. The vast majority of Starcraft 2 players, not just the active player base of around 200k, but everyone who bought SC1 and/or SC2, generally agree that the game is too hard and too frustrating to play. Most people are wrong about how to fix it without destroying the core gameplay. I have more faith in someone whose livelihood is based on the success or failure of Starcraft 2 (David Kim, Dustin Browder, etc.) than someone who cannot or will not try to understand how other players feel. David Kim and Dustin Browder acknowledge the actual problems instead of just dismissing them as the signs of unskilled play. you didn't answer my question at all. My point is, in every multiplayer game the difficulty is determined by your opponent not by the game. Making macro mechanics easier doesn't make the game easier it only shifts the things you have to be good at from macro to micro. If you think casual players generally like micro more than macro then you may have a point but as long as you always lose 50% of your games the game will stay as frustrating as it is. | ||
Haighstrom
United Kingdom196 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On August 29 2015 04:57 Eternal Dalek wrote: I gained a lot of respect for the Korean pros for this. I mean, I already put them on a pedestal like the rest of us have, but it's quite commendable that they actually acknowledge the problems in this game, when they could've just continued their dominance if the status quo remained. Well, I do agree that the reasoning behind the changes is good for the game. However, I feel like the autocast solution is an effort to get the game out by December. Removing the unnecessary macro mechanics and rebalancing around that would take too long. So I agree with the disappointment of the older fans as well since the old Blizzard would do what is necessary and just delay the game's release if they need to. | ||
DeepBurrow
49 Posts
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On August 29 2015 04:56 ohmylanta1003 wrote: God. Everyone here is so fucking entitled. It's ridiculous. Actually, Blizzard is not entitled to my money and they've made it clear through these community updates that they appreciate the feedback. It's free information and market data and the only reason we give it is because we love Starcraft. Starcraft's saving grace right now is its devoted community so how about you stop shitting on it? | ||
Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
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Linear
60 Posts
On August 29 2015 04:50 Eternal Dalek wrote: I love how he pretty much proved the quoted poster's point. :D I can't find the articles right now, but over the years, many players have asked Wizards of the Coast why they print bad/gimmicky/silly cards in Magic: The Gathering. None of the pros, who spend thousands of dollars on a single deck every few months or so, will ever pay for any of these cards. Also, some have asked why some useless cards like Browbeat have a higher-than-normal secondary market value. The answer to this is that while the pros spend a considerable amount of money on the game individually, collectively, the rest of us MTG scrubs outspend them by a lot. Basically, WotC makes most of its Magic revenue not from the Magic progamers, but from casual scrubs like Eternal Dalek who can't even get past Gold in Starcraft 2. The pro scene does drive card sales, especially individual card sales, a.k.a. "singles," but it's still only a small fraction of the total Magic sales. The same applies to Starcraft 2 and Blizzard. How many players are there in GM? A thousand, right? How many current players are there in HotS? According to this site: http://nios.kr/sc2/global/1v1/hots/ There are 799 Grandmasters out of 224,600 accounts. That's 0.36% of the active player base. If we add Masters to that (10,972 or 4.89%), we go up to 5.25% of the active player base (those who bothered to play ranked and haven't quit by now). Are you going to ignore 94.75% of the player base just to cater to the top 5.25%? Remember that they all had to pay to play like the rest of us. Are you going to cater to the five people that gave you $1 each, or the 95 people who gave you $1 each? The answer is no, you shouldn't ignore the majority. You should listen to the highly-skilled minority more, but you shouldn't completely ignore everyone else. Remember, the 94.75% of Diamond and below players only represents the active player base. It doesn't count people like me who gave up on the game years ago. We still count. We represent the bulk of revenue Blizzard earned from Starcraft 2. We should not, and cannot be ignored. First off the definition of arrogance is not even close to what I said, valuing a more experienced person opinion isn't an exaggerated position of self worth. Secondly don't people play this game currently at these low leagues, the audience they feel they will attract or gain with these changes is an audience that is yet to have shown itself and they do this at the detriment of the core players they already have seems like a bad idea? You are a perfect case in point, you don't even play this game anymore and you never attained a good knowledge of this game yet you want to discuss key design points that affect the very state of the game? Lower league players are fine for discussing the things that they want achieved (ie lower skill floor, more noticeable/rewarding micro) but when it comes to discussing the implementation I find their input lacking. | ||
Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On August 29 2015 04:59 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I totally agree that the fact they never tried any other economy models is completely fucking stupid and I'm very disappointed in them for that. I would have at least like to try DH model. But really, what does making these autocast change? Dropping MULEs isn't a skill, and MULEs caused problems in the late game and that is now solved. Chronoboosting is similar enough that it's not that big of a deal, and larva inject was way too important for zerg and was very very frustrating for lower level players. I agree that MULES in HotS are indeed kinda problematic, however there is actually skill (well, thought, at least) involved when deciding to scan OR mule if you're low on energy and can't have both. I just don't like that more and more stuff is taken care of automatically (fuck auto worker rally, scan radius etc). Experience is a major factor when playing this game, it can be brutal and devastatingly frustrating to play Starcraft, I think we all know and kinda love that. This will still be an obstacle to overcome for new players and having autocast macro abilities is just less stuff people have to show-off their skill. Leveling the playing field that way is the wrong approach imho. | ||
ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
On August 29 2015 05:02 ffadicted wrote: Can we stop with these comments? Lol this is the beta, we are supposed to give feedback, and tons of it. When things are going the wrong way, you better damn voice your opinion, otherwise what's the point of even participating in beta testing?? Lol. Cause the feedback people are giving back in this thread is so constructive, right? Give me a break. | ||
TheDougler
Canada8302 Posts
I know that sounds like a pretty huge buff to planetary, but as it stands now, the choice will be between getting mules, and your choice of scans or supply drops, and also the ability to lift versus a large, expensive cannon. If PF has mule, there's still plenty of choice there, especially since you're going to want to have a few orbitals in order to lift them in the late game and move them towards resources. Plus, orbitals don't require gas. | ||
Haighstrom
United Kingdom196 Posts
On August 29 2015 05:19 ohmylanta1003 wrote: Lol. Cause the feedback people are giving back in this thread is so constructive, right? Give me a break. The feedback in this thread is overwhelmingly "we want macro back". If enough people say it, maybe they'll listen? | ||
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