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On August 23 2015 12:47 DilemaH wrote:
Are you arguing for or against micro? Injecting is a form of macro which takes micro, so by agreeing that micro should exist, you argue that injects should exist. If you're against micro, you're against player mechanics such as aiming, waveshining, and marine splitting.
Injecting does not take micro...unless you think moving a chess piece or selecting a civ dropdown takes "micro," there's pretty much no micro involved. More 'micro' was involved in writing this post than will be used in an entire game's worth of larvae injects.
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I don´t know how people consider injecting not a visible part of the game. No injects equals no units. Great injects equals the swarm! I feel like injects allow players to really shine with their mechanics and clearly is a visible skill to me.
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i wanted to post these two paragraphs i put into the recent survey on the macro changes patch. i had some thoughts i figured were worth sharing. this is just kinda brainstorming so don't pitchfork me, b/c they are a bit out there, and i'm kinda liking the sound of these:
on macro mechanics:
increasing zerg's larva rate and per hatch natural cap might be the solution as opposed to auto-casting. i would like to see this tested and have the queen simply heal and creep. then ofc go from there. unsure on whether or not weaker macro mechanics should return. some different ones might be in order like terran drop pod marines or protoss portal like a nydus. not macro mechanics per se, but maybe offensive or even defensive macro battle mechanics... i might have gone too far lol... (or is it perfect?) (added post: they are considering the photon overcharge to kinda do something like that. while defensive that could be a battlefield thing...)
on the aug 21 community feedback post:
it's interesting that they took seriously the auto-build idea. this is something that was likely meant as a "slippery slope" kind of thing. and tbh, they could implement it in a way around what they had seen as the error, not that i would want this necessarily. dawn of war 1 had this function, and i think dawn of war 2, and plenty of other great RTS games. this doesn't exactly hinder any kind of play, and managing it wouldn't necessarily be the noobiest thing you could add. that being said it should likely be similar to auto-repair, or interceptors and charge, and off by default. only 1 unit should be able to be auto-built, and zerg would need a unit menu on the hatchery. i know... i can't believe i'm realistically thinking about this....
not on the survey, i also want to add that i think it will be most important to implement miss chance uphill. there is no practical reason to not have a realistic (and visually clear) high ground advantage. dota 2 has it, and is not suffering one bit for it. we should exactly copy the %25 random. any other way could be predictable removes the high ground advantage. that is probably the most important future item for me right now.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
dota 2 has it, and is not suffering one bit for it. we should exactly copy the %25 random
In sc2 if you have vision of a unit on high ground, you can weigh up interactions and make decisions based on how much damage you would deal/take - if it's random to some extent, small exchanges would be much more coinflippy. When you're firing 30 attacks, missing 25% of them isn't a problem - but when you attack twice, you'd have a 1 in 16 chance of doing literally 0 damage with those odds
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the game is better without macro mechanics, the time/apm wasted using chrono, inject larva and mules during battle will be used for a more spectacular micro, thats what makes the game funny to play and watch, not the fucking macro mechanincs.
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On August 23 2015 20:14 nubHunter wrote:
the game is better without macro mechanics, the time/apm wasted using chrono, inject larva and mules during battle will be used for a more spectacular micro, thats what makes the game funny to play and watch, not the fucking macro mechanincs.
Exactly!
I hated to spend so much time with injects (and watching my base) -> it leads too very passive playstyle because injects is/was the most important "job" at zerg.
Now you have more time to think which units/strategie and you scout alot more.
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I've said this before and I'll say it again.
1) Take every single tournament game ever played in front of a live audience.
2) Analyze the times where "OHHH!" and "AHHH!" came from the crowd.
3) Design towards that.
I believe Blizzard has been doing a good job and continues to do a good job in Legacy.
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On August 23 2015 20:38 mishimaBeef wrote:
I've said this before and I'll say it again.
1) Take every single tournament game ever played in front of a live audience.
2) Analyze the times where "OHHH!" and "AHHH!" came from the crowd.
3) Design towards that.
I believe Blizzard has been doing a good job and continues to do a good job in Legacy.
Then blizzard should rather look at big supply fights, these still suck ass to watch in sc2 for the most part
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On August 23 2015 20:38 mishimaBeef wrote:
I've said this before and I'll say it again.
1) Take every single tournament game ever played in front of a live audience.
2) Analyze the times where "OHHH!" and "AHHH!" came from the crowd.
3) Design towards that.
I believe Blizzard has been doing a good job and continues to do a good job in Legacy.
I think the game should focus primarily on the player's experience rather than the viewer's one.
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I'd rather blizzard completely removed auto casting on the queen (as that is the most terrible solution there can possibly be), and instead look to another solution if they really want to remove mechanical difficulty.
How about a drone being able to become a building attached to a hatchery after the spawning pool is made, which doubles larva production (some random number) and facilitates the building of queens from that hatchery. That way there'd be some decision making that needed to be done, queens would be made expressly for transfuses/fighting/creep spread and not just wasted supply to make more units. And it would still require some macro management at each base, particularly as harass is becoming more powerful.
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On August 23 2015 20:14 nubHunter wrote:
the game is better without macro mechanics, the time/apm wasted using chrono, inject larva and mules during battle will be used for a more spectacular micro, thats what makes the game funny to play and watch, not the fucking macro mechanincs.
Please just play dota instead.
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On August 23 2015 23:02 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 20:14 nubHunter wrote:
the game is better without macro mechanics, the time/apm wasted using chrono, inject larva and mules during battle will be used for a more spectacular micro, thats what makes the game funny to play and watch, not the fucking macro mechanincs. Please just play dota instead.
There seems to be a fundamental difference in what people wan´t from SC2. Neither is better than the other but simplifying macro will change the game that is for sure. I don´t really like every game trying to be like Dota. If i liked Dota more i would watch/play Dota. Theres a reason why i prefer Sc2 and making it more like other popular games is something that worries me.
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On August 23 2015 23:02 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 20:14 nubHunter wrote:
the game is better without macro mechanics, the time/apm wasted using chrono, inject larva and mules during battle will be used for a more spectacular micro, thats what makes the game funny to play and watch, not the fucking macro mechanincs. Please just play dota instead.
i have 200+ apm, i can macro in sc2 very decent, but i prefer use that apm and camera time on my army, thanks.
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On August 24 2015 00:27 nubHunter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2015 23:02 bo1b wrote:On August 23 2015 20:14 nubHunter wrote:
the game is better without macro mechanics, the time/apm wasted using chrono, inject larva and mules during battle will be used for a more spectacular micro, thats what makes the game funny to play and watch, not the fucking macro mechanincs. Please just play dota instead. i have 200+ apm, i can macro in sc2 very decent, but i prefer use that apm and camera time on my army, thanks.
200+ is way too much for macro. I play zerg with 40apm and I barely missing any inject until Lategame. Funny things is when I have a fight, it goes over 250apm only for that 5sec fight.
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We realy need the comeback of these macro mechanics, the game is just destroy now; is no more the great SC2 game, So slow, No eco, no fun, no heart and soul this patch is the worst thing ever who happens to Starcraft
I really hope they will remake chronoboost, mules and inject, they just cant do that after 5 years, its non sense and there no hope for a starcraft without that, just delete this patch... 
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Guys, it's been 1 week since the patch, give it some time.
I actually quite like it, but i feel so lost vs Hydra/Lurk/Ling :/
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Russian Federation66 Posts
Give a second rally point to nexus and cc's for auto-chronoboosting on a single building and auto-dropping mule's on a single mineral line with a fixed cooldown should simplify macro mechanics a lot without change meta that much. Good or bad suggestion?
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SoCal8933 Posts
On August 24 2015 00:48 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2015 00:27 nubHunter wrote:On August 23 2015 23:02 bo1b wrote:On August 23 2015 20:14 nubHunter wrote:
the game is better without macro mechanics, the time/apm wasted using chrono, inject larva and mules during battle will be used for a more spectacular micro, thats what makes the game funny to play and watch, not the fucking macro mechanincs. Please just play dota instead. i have 200+ apm, i can macro in sc2 very decent, but i prefer use that apm and camera time on my army, thanks. 200+ is way too much for macro. I play zerg with 40apm and I barely missing any inject until Lategame. Funny things is when I have a fight, it goes over 250apm only for that 5sec fight.
40 apm when there's no action going on? There's actually no way you're doing every thing you need to do then suddenly spike to 200 apm during a 5 second engagement lol
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played a few games with terran; haha lol, terran is completely fucked on this patch. I thought with supply drops still in the game terran would have it best but man was I wrong, lol...
Also cyclones suck balls now, lol. So basically, on the last patch they behaved like a long range/hightech crappy designed unit will behave: it becomes insanely good when massed and it's a bit inefficient before that.
Now it's just bad, start to end. And the antiair damage without the upgrade is a joke. 150/150/3 for the dps of a mothershipcore? Yeah right, that's going to be useful. Totally gonna open cyclones to prevent oracles, prisms, banshees and liberators wrecking me. (not)
Good lord, who came up with this design... Can we please just remove it and go forward with starcraft. I'm starting to consider joining the stupid "give goliath" chants - which is like the most boring and unnecessary unit you could add to terran - just because it's probably the only chance we get to remove this piece of crap.
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I was surprised to see Taeja streaming Legacy of the Void today. Unfortunately for me I was only able to catch his last game. I tell you, it was INTENSE! I am eagerly awaiting more pro players showcasing Legacy of the Void.
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EPT
