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Suggestion Macro Mechanic Compromise

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
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MechE_
Profile Joined August 2015
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-10 12:34:02
August 10 2015 12:11 GMT
#1
Background
If you're in this thread, you already know that Blizzard plans to "trial" heavily modified macro mechanics in the upcoming Legacy of the Void patch. This change has caused a rather large response from the Starcrfat 2 community, with a number of people passionately supporting the change and many others decrying it even more passionately. (If you aren't intimately familiar with Blizzard's suggested changes and their implications, please excuse yourself from this thread and do your research before posting.)

About Me: (Spoilered for ease of skipping.) + Show Spoiler +
I've been a TL lurker since WoL Beta and though I haven't laddered SC2 since then, I've watched thousands of hours of streams and professional matches (HerO, Snute, Demuslim, Grubby back in the day, Dreamhack, Homestory Cup, GSL, GSTL, and MLGs of old). I am by no stretch of my own imagination an expert, but I am knowledgeable and I've got a lot of #passion for the game. I also dabble in game design and though I'll never do it for money (I'm a far better engineer...), I enjoy tweaking things and testing them until they feel JUST right. In short, I'm just a fan who likes to hear himself talk, lol. But I've lurker TL for over 5 years, and this is the first topic that I have had a strongly enough feeling about to emerge from the shadows.


My Idea
Blizzard plans to nerf inject and turn it into an auto cast ability while eliminating the chrono boost and drop mule abilities. I suggest that instead, we leave all three abilities as is and make them all autocast abilities with the caveat that they only activate when the energy reaches a level high enough to cast it twice. (Of course these abilities could be set to not autocast, just as many abilities functioned in Warcraft 3.) For example, if Drop Mule is set to autocast, your orbital drops 1 mule at the nearest mineral patch with an SCV on it when it reaches 100 energy. When a nexus has 100 energy, it casts chrono boost on the the nearest producing (or cooling down) building, most likely itself in the early/mid game. Queen hits the nearest uninjected hatchery (within a set distance)when it reaches enough energy for two injects.

Implications
By doing this, we preserve the decision making of mule vs scan, or the boost vs risk of having your chronoed twilight council give away your fast blink. For Zerg, macro mechanics still absolutely matter, but if you slip up on injects in diamond league during a 2 minute drop heavy mid game, you are punished, but not dead. In professional play, the Zerg is probably still dead. But that's the idea, a smoother skill curve. And if this change proves too good for Zerg in the mid or late game, then a minor adjustment such as making inject take 5 seconds longer for 5 more energy, while also adding a point or two of queen attack damage could be trailed to balance it back out at a later date. Keep in mind that at the highest level of play, these abilities would probably never be set to autocast. But at the lower end for casual players who aren't atop their macro, it's a no brainer to activate. The orbital will still have enough for an emergency DT scan if you don't manually mule, the Queens will still have an emergency transfuse to save their sisters from hellion harass, and each nexus will always keep one chrono in reserve for when you really want to push out that +2 attack upgrade.

Your Thoughts
I'm just going to drop a quick poll here to tally up opinions on the idea of a compromise. If you have deeper feedback, obviously feel free to post it. (That is what forums are for, after all.) My hope is that enough voices come out in support of compromise to get Blizzard's attention. I'd like to think that out of the nearly infinite number of possible solutions, one can be found that doesn't heavily alienate X% of the community.
Poll: Macro Mechanics (mule, chronological, inject) - what to do?

Get rid of them. They are an unnecessary barrier to entry for new players. (23)
 
62%

Leave them alone. For the love of God, David Kim, don't ruin LotV already! (8)
 
22%

Compromise is good. There must be a way to smooth the skill curve with something other than a sledge (6)
 
16%

37 total votes

Your vote: Macro Mechanics (mule, chronological, inject) - what to do?

(Vote): Leave them alone. For the love of God, David Kim, don't ruin LotV already!
(Vote): Get rid of them. They are an unnecessary barrier to entry for new players.
(Vote): Compromise is good. There must be a way to smooth the skill curve with something other than a sledge


Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
August 10 2015 12:22 GMT
#2
I don't fit in any of the categories you have listed.. I'm not an avid fan of the change coming in the beta but I would like to see how they play out.... It's an indirect nerf to a lot and an indirect buff to a few strategies so I'm very curious to see what it does....

I'll be very blunt with you because I applaud your attempt with coming up with a solution I don't agree with it though for a couple good reasons... the biggest is that it removes options for players to save energy for queens and save more than one scan which is a strategic move so I don't agree with the "compromise".
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2647 Posts
August 10 2015 12:30 GMT
#3
I don't really think this solution works at all, after all the intention is not to make the game easier for new player but rather to shift the difficulty form certain aspects of the game to others and also to nerf their impact on the game. After all these mechanics where created in a time where people expand much slore and the maps had a lot less bases.
The biggest part of these changes are that they tone down the macro so that the other aspects that come with faster and more expansion and more harras become more important than perfecting these specific macro mechanics.
MechE_
Profile Joined August 2015
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-10 12:34:47
August 10 2015 12:31 GMT
#4
On August 10 2015 21:22 Pirfiktshon wrote:
I don't fit in any of the categories you have listed.. I'm not an avid fan of the change coming in the beta but I would like to see how they play out.... It's an indirect nerf to a lot and an indirect buff to a few strategies so I'm very curious to see what it does....

I'll be very blunt with you because I applaud your attempt with coming up with a solution I don't agree with it though for a couple good reasons... the biggest is that it removes options for players to save energy for queens and save more than one scan which is a strategic move so I don't agree with the "compromise".

I neglected to specifically state that all autocast abilities can be deactivated from autocasting (by right clicking on the ability) , thus allowing the saving of energy if desired. This is the way such abilities worked in Warcraft 3, so I thought that didn't need to be mentioned... I'll update the OP to clarify.
i_am_Nite
Profile Joined February 2012
Russian Federation66 Posts
August 10 2015 12:37 GMT
#5
removing mules => no mass oc = no spam scans for free, no "zero scv" plays, ob is no longer priority over normal cc/planetary => no need to spend 150 to orbital at start, lesser income at mid-lategame.
reducing injection larva to 2 => build more hatcheries and no "ez sd to replace dead drones" => less drones at start, early 3 hatch (less queens mb coz of less minerals).
removing chrono => no boost probes (but it's ok while no mules and inj nerfed) and no fast warp/blink/colossus => harder to 1-2base allin, but better lategame eco.

as for host it's good to be toss with changes, but in lotv we'll see
TokO
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway577 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-10 12:51:32
August 10 2015 12:48 GMT
#6
I think a lot of these suggested changes subvert the biggest benefits of removing macroboosters.

One obvious one is that, I don't want a resource investment that is mandatory to get at the earliest possible time because having it unlocked trumps every other investment. This obviously applies to Queens and Orbitals. Both these investments should be geared towards something more defensive and in the Orbitals case, it's an information gathering tool that caters to the lategame. So that getting a queen and orbital might sometimes be unnecessary if you are doing an all-in for example. Right now, there is no strategic choice to whether to get it or not.

The other one is that it slows down the game progress. Less units, slower tech. This should translate to bigger timing windows, which hopefully translates into more action in each stage of the game trying to exploit those timing windows. This might very well make the game more difficult and decisive as you can much more easily straight out die without having macroboosters compensate the edges you lose throughout the game when you make mistakes.

EDIT: Hopefully it becomes an opportunity to nerf units like WM and adepts and buff core iconic units.
Krikkitone
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1451 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-10 15:46:51
August 10 2015 15:44 GMT
#7
I think Compromise is good...
The way is to make the macromechanics optional and/or have tension.

ie make MULEs /inject worse [possibly make drop supply better], move Mass Recall and Photon Overcharge to the Nexus (or move Chronoboost to the MSC/Mothership)

So Hatcheries v. Queens and Planetary Fortress + Turret v. Orbital are valid choices
as well as the other uses of the macro energy

Then I would probably slow down the game overall (only 3 or 4 minerals per trip, and/or increase the cost/time of key buildings/upgrades)

If they are willing to rebalance the game for 0 macromechanics, they can rebalance it for a slowed economy+more interesting macromechanics.
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