EPTLegacy of the Void Beta Patch 2.5.2 - Page 19
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spacemonkeyy
Australia477 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On May 30 2015 21:50 rpgalon wrote: I did, and still don't see it. Have you played with it or watched games with the stasis before this change? It was not only fine but good to watch and fun to play with, the reason blizzard made this change: "We’re seeing certain strategies with the Oracle’s Stasis ability where players are stacking the ability several times, and then manually detonating them over time to indefinitely leave units in Stasis. With our focus on constant combat, this is obviously something that we have no desire for and this change should effectively end this behavior." There is a lot of better ways to resolve this issue without completely removing many interesting mechanics the stasis had. EDIT: few examples of better solutions: -Make stasis ward detonate other stasis in it's radius when it is activated. -Give units a stasis imunity for some time after being affected by it. The Warcraft 3 ability Stasis Trap will destroy other nearby Stasis Traps upon detonation, so there clearly is precedent for your idea. You couldn't activate it manually though, so it's not exactly parallel. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On May 30 2015 21:50 rpgalon wrote: I did, and still don't see it. Have you played with it or watched games with the stasis before this change? It was not only fine but good to watch and fun to play with, the reason blizzard made this change: "We’re seeing certain strategies with the Oracle’s Stasis ability where players are stacking the ability several times, and then manually detonating them over time to indefinitely leave units in Stasis. With our focus on constant combat, this is obviously something that we have no desire for and this change should effectively end this behavior." There is a lot of better ways to resolve this issue without completely removing many interesting mechanics the stasis had. EDIT: few examples of better solutions: -Make stasis ward detonate other stasis in it's radius when it is activated. -Give units a stasis imunity for some time after being affected by it. Do you realize how game breaking Stasis is if you rush Oracle and manage to put one into mineral line before enemy has turrets/spores? If Oracle starts killing workers while you don't have turrets/spores, it will kill few workers but Marines/Stalkers/Queens will chase it away while at the same time you are making those turrets/spores. If you drop Widow Mines into enemy mineral line while he doesn't have turrets/spores, he will bait them with other units and then get workers back to mining. Now if you make stasis being able to activate manually, one stasis will prevent whole base from mining. You can't bait it like Widow Mines, nor you can just chase it away while making turrets/spores, you have to wait for turrets/spores to finish and that is huge income loss for that time. Let alone in PvP, where if you didn't go for Stargate yourself it is basically over as there is no way to prevent Stasis from freezing all of your workers, and you certainly won't have Robotics for Obs at the time first Oracle flies into your base. That's just one example, here is another: You are making a timing push against Zerg, you attack his 3rd/4th/whatever base, and keep using Stasis as Terran use Widow Mines in those Bio pushes. So you are standing over your Stasis traps, enemy can't bait them like Mines nor they can snipe them as they have quite large AoE and they are risking half of their army being trapped into Force Fields, and if they engage at least half of their army will be frozen for 30 seconds by Stasis which is basically auto-loss situation, especially when you consider how cost-effective Protoss units are compared to the Zerg units. There is a ton of things that you could have done that were almost broken with Stasis that was being able to activate manually, they gave only one example. Now if you still want to have manually-activated Stasis you could do it with nerfing a lot of other aspects of that spell and in the end it probably won't be worth using in that state. | ||
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Merkmerk
United States96 Posts
On May 30 2015 17:03 ohmylanta1003 wrote: You are perfectly well aware that if Blizzard messed with the core mechanics, people would also be up in arms. There. Is. No. Pleasing. This. Crowd. That's why Blizzard doesn't listen to us. Because no matter what they do, it's wrong. I really don't see how you guys don't see this. What? It's beta Nobody screamed that they experimented with the econ and worker start. It's beta. People are pissed when they make stupid changes. The fact of the matter is that Blizzard has proven that they don't know what they're doing with SC2. It's not like this is WoL. We've been through WoL and HOTS. HOTS was the worst Blizzard expansion I've ever played in regards to multiplayer. They actually let the Swarm Host make it out of alpha and get released as a unit. This isn't people being reactionary - this is people reading the writing on the wall with how poorly SC2 has turned out. 12 years ago The Frozen Throne completely overhauled armor/damage types and added new units that all had a role to each race. There were only a handful of fumbles. | ||
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rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
On May 30 2015 23:43 Ramiz1989 wrote: Do you realize how game breaking Stasis is if you rush Oracle and manage to put one into mineral line before enemy has turrets/spores? 1-If Oracle starts killing workers while you don't have turrets/spores, it will kill few workers but Marines/Stalkers/Queens will chase it away while at the same time you are making those turrets/spores. If you drop Widow Mines into enemy mineral line while he doesn't have turrets/spores, he will bait them with other units and then get workers back to mining. Now if you make stasis being able to activate manually, one stasis will prevent whole base from mining. You can't bait it like Widow Mines, nor you can just chase it away while making turrets/spores, you have to wait for turrets/spores to finish and that is huge income loss for that time. Let alone in PvP, where if you didn't go for Stargate yourself it is basically over as there is no way to prevent Stasis from freezing all of your workers, and you certainly won't have Robotics for Obs at the time first Oracle flies into your base. That's just one example, here is another: 2-You are making a timing push against Zerg, you attack his 3rd/4th/whatever base, and keep using Stasis as Terran use Widow Mines in those Bio pushes. So you are standing over your Stasis traps, enemy can't bait them like Mines nor they can snipe them as they have quite large AoE and they are risking half of their army being trapped into Force Fields, and if they engage at least half of their army will be frozen for 30 seconds by Stasis which is basically auto-loss situation, especially when you consider how cost-effective Protoss units are compared to the Zerg units. There is a ton of things that you could have done that were almost broken with Stasis that was being able to activate manually, they gave only one example. Now if you still want to have manually-activated Stasis you could do it with nerfing a lot of other aspects of that spell and in the end it probably won't be worth using in that state. 1-move workers, scan the ward, kill it with marines. no worker lost. or, cry to blizzard change stasis to have 1 HP so you can kill it with workers before it is made. 2-This doesn't even make sense, Protoss does not work like Terran, oracle cost 6x times the gas of WM and stasis can't be activated more than one time, one kills other freezes, there is no point in comparing these two. in your example you make it look like zerg only has low tech units, while protoss has Oracles, sentries and an army strong enough to contest zerg bases lol, so it looks like he is going all in on 2 bases. Anyway, if you build a single ravager you can kill Wards in one shot with the raveger skill, and you don't even need detection nor tech for that. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
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ohmylanta1003
United States128 Posts
On May 30 2015 23:46 Merkmerk wrote: What? It's beta Nobody screamed that they experimented with the econ and worker start. It's beta. People are pissed when they make stupid changes. The fact of the matter is that Blizzard has proven that they don't know what they're doing with SC2. It's not like this is WoL. We've been through WoL and HOTS. HOTS was the worst Blizzard expansion I've ever played in regards to multiplayer. They actually let the Swarm Host make it out of alpha and get released as a unit. This isn't people being reactionary - this is people reading the writing on the wall with how poorly SC2 has turned out. 12 years ago The Frozen Throne completely overhauled armor/damage types and added new units that all had a role to each race. There were only a handful of fumbles. Lol. Have you seen the amount of bitching about the economy changes? Even though people know it's a beta, they react all the same. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On May 31 2015 03:18 ohmylanta1003 wrote: Lol. Have you seen the amount of bitching about the economy changes? Even though people know it's a beta, they react all the same. When the economy changes were first unveiled, there was basically unanimous celebration about Blizzard's attempts to try something new. Now, people are bitching because Blizzard has stopped trying new things. It really is that simple. People just want to have visible, physical proof over a sustained period of Beta that Blizzard gives a shit and is willing to test things and see which things the community prefers. Trying one thing and then saying "Well I guess it's good enough, we can probably polish the shit out of this," while the community thinks there are better alternatives that are at least worth trying and experimenting with is just the same old shit. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
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Jason1
9 Posts
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CptMarvel
France236 Posts
Just watched a short video on the Liberator... daaamn it looks ugly ! and the attack animations are so bad I'm lost for words. I don't even feel like the unit is interesting. Uncool stuff Blizzard. Uncool indeed. | ||
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abendrot
14 Posts
Liberator on the other hand is really cool and I like it a lot. Well done. Mech is finally viable. Now change the upgrades back or at least the amor upgrade sould be shared. 4 Armories is a joke. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13408 Posts
On May 30 2015 23:43 Ramiz1989 wrote: Do you realize how game breaking Stasis is if you rush Oracle and manage to put one into mineral line before enemy has turrets/spores? If Oracle starts killing workers while you don't have turrets/spores, it will kill few workers but Marines/Stalkers/Queens will chase it away while at the same time you are making those turrets/spores. If you drop Widow Mines into enemy mineral line while he doesn't have turrets/spores, he will bait them with other units and then get workers back to mining. Now if you make stasis being able to activate manually, one stasis will prevent whole base from mining. You can't bait it like Widow Mines, nor you can just chase it away while making turrets/spores, you have to wait for turrets/spores to finish and that is huge income loss for that time. Let alone in PvP, where if you didn't go for Stargate yourself it is basically over as there is no way to prevent Stasis from freezing all of your workers, and you certainly won't have Robotics for Obs at the time first Oracle flies into your base. That's just one example, here is another: You are making a timing push against Zerg, you attack his 3rd/4th/whatever base, and keep using Stasis as Terran use Widow Mines in those Bio pushes. So you are standing over your Stasis traps, enemy can't bait them like Mines nor they can snipe them as they have quite large AoE and they are risking half of their army being trapped into Force Fields, and if they engage at least half of their army will be frozen for 30 seconds by Stasis which is basically auto-loss situation, especially when you consider how cost-effective Protoss units are compared to the Zerg units. There is a ton of things that you could have done that were almost broken with Stasis that was being able to activate manually, they gave only one example. Now if you still want to have manually-activated Stasis you could do it with nerfing a lot of other aspects of that spell and in the end it probably won't be worth using in that state. The mineral loss of stasis in a min line is actually not worth it. You are better off killing 3 or 4 workers than you are putting a stasis in mineral line. I remember the math being done way back for when it was the mineral blocking ability on the oracle in HotS beta and people just realised it was actually not very impactful. the loss of a worker and its mining time and its replacement cost is far higher than it is to keep them from working the mineral line for even 60seconds | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On May 30 2015 17:56 ETisME wrote: I love watching TvP now, way better than hots one. The nerf to marauder, the Adept with disruptor I think have nailed it. All the engagements are intense and very dynamic I think terran can get a buff somewhere but right now it's awesome to watch. Yeah I think some of the positive stuff Blizzard are doing is not being focused on. What you describe is addressing some long standing problems - Tier 1 unit-interaction. ie. Nerfing maurauder indirectly buffs Protoss gateway units. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
On June 01 2015 10:04 abendrot wrote: I hate the new Eco!!!! plz Blizzard do something about it, it sucks. Liberator on the other hand is really cool and I like it a lot. Well done. Mech is finally viable. Now change the upgrades back or at least the amor upgrade sould be shared. 4 Armories is a joke. WHY does it suck ? | ||
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friendship
32 Posts
Blizzard separates the upgrades and brings in a strong air unit. Not really to compliment mech but to give a mainly air army (besides mass raven) a chance. Since it's beta I guess they want to see how people optimize various unit comps-- i.e. if mostly mech what and how much anti-air do you use or if going airmech how many hellios are in your army etc. The complaints seem to be focused around now 'needing' a ton of armories and upgrades whirling away so that air and mech together are viable-- contrary to what blizzard is saying regarding 2 distinct and viable techpaths. Needing to make certain strategic prioritization has been a part of teching for all 3 races the whole time. This is just trying to squeeze out a 3rd option for terran which is what has been asked for. | ||
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winsonsonho
Korea (South)143 Posts
On May 30 2015 17:03 ohmylanta1003 wrote: You are perfectly well aware that if Blizzard messed with the core mechanics, people would also be up in arms. There. Is. No. Pleasing. This. Crowd. That's why Blizzard doesn't listen to us. Because no matter what they do, it's wrong. I really don't see how you guys don't see this. A fact of life is that you can't please everybody and that perfection does not exist.. But that doesn't mean Blizzard should give up on trying to please the majority and make as many happy as possible. That's why voicing your opinion and debating inadequacies is good, if they realise that the majority of the community have an issue with the game, they should start listening and doing. Otherwise the majority will just keep complaining and/or walk away.. | ||
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Ingvar
Russian Federation421 Posts
On June 01 2015 15:15 winsonsonho wrote: A fact of life is that you can't please everybody and that perfection does not exist.. But that doesn't mean Blizzard should give up on trying to please the majority and make as many happy as possible. That's why voicing your opinion and debating inadequacies is good, if they realise that the majority of the community have an issue with the game, they should start listening and doing. Otherwise the majority will just keep complaining and/or walk away.. Do you understand that people who are displeased are generally the ones who bother to tell their opinion? That's why you see everyone complaining and possibly mistake majority for a vocal minority. What majority of people wants is an enigma. | ||
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BretZ
United States1510 Posts
On June 01 2015 07:34 CptMarvel wrote: Corruptor is one of the units that were wrongly designed up from the get-go. Hard to do anything smart with it now. Just watched a short video on the Liberator... daaamn it looks ugly ! and the attack animations are so bad I'm lost for words. I don't even feel like the unit is interesting. Uncool stuff Blizzard. Uncool indeed. Just saw on patch notes comments from a blue saying that the corrupter should actually still have caustic spray and they did not intend on removing it. | ||
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jotmang-nojem
39 Posts
On June 01 2015 15:52 Ingvar wrote: Do you understand that people who are displeased are generally the ones who bother to tell their opinion? That's why you see everyone complaining and possibly mistake majority for a vocal minority. What majority of people wants is an enigma. You know there's a problem when the silent majority silently leaves. SC2 is lucky it has a vocal minority. When a game doesn't even have them, it is well and truely DED GAEM. | ||
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