EPTLotV Balance Update Preview - May 11 - Page 7
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AssyrianKing
Australia2116 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On May 12 2015 07:17 Big J wrote: Protoss has those options in the form of early game stalker pokes before stim is done, or oracle phoenix play. But sure, I fully agree that Protoss is lacking some solid mapcontrol unit, in particular against zerglings. But instead of that, blizzard has given Protoss in those two expansions: - the MsC with recall and PO to make up for mobility issues - the oracle, a flying spellcaster that can kill zerglings but not consistently - the adept, a unit that can combat zerglings somewhat but cannot run because they are again designed around a gimmick, instead of just having ~4movement speed. (HotS value; not so familiar with the LotV ones) On top of the already gimmicky forcefield+cater all maps towards protoss walling solution. What bothers me with your argumentation is that blizzard is running circles around the Zergling vs Protoss issue, then introduces and buffs gimmicks to make up for that and then you come in and pretend it's "what Protoss needed". No, what Protoss needed is a well-designed adept. No superroach, but some form of a Protoss hellion. I mean you gotta realize that MsC 50energy recall is not just going to be used to be out on the map with 3stalkers early. People are going to teleport their deathball around all game long if it only takes 64seconds to regain recall energy and you can store up to four of them. How that is a solution to "early game" mobility issues is beyond me. It's a solution to Protoss ever losing a combat when on the offense, which I'm afraid, is just stupid. I agree with Zergling vs. Protoss being a huge issue. I don't want 4 get out of jail free cards (as the MsC recall is being called) but rather just a unit that I can build in response to Zerglings for map control. 50 may be too low. I was thinking decreasing from 100 to 75 might be better. EDIT - also another issue I jsut realized is that any early game poke by Protoss forces Zerglings instead of drones, but then you have nothing to deal with those same Zerglings when you want to take your 3rd.... So yeah basically some kind of more reliable way of killing/zoning out Zerglings early would be nice. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
On May 12 2015 04:57 DinoMight wrote: People are talking like Protoss isn't the weakest race at the moment. Protoss needs to be buffed. It is the weakest race right now. And that buff has to go to a unit or another. There isn't a single Protoss unit that Terran/Zerg don't hate: Zealots (too strong, charge is bullshit,A-move unit) Stalkers (Blink imba etc) Adepts (broken as hell in high nubmers vs Terran right now) Templar (storm OP omg) - edit: apparently feedback OP too now (there is a thread about it) DTs (no explanation needed). Mothership core (imba, protoss doesn't need any defense photon overcharge OP) Disruptor (OP omg it becomes invincible!) Colossus (Dumb A-move unit, no skill) Observer (unlimited vision everywhere, map hacks) Warp Prism (warp in 25 units at a time anywhere on the map?? stupid pickup range) Immortal (Mech isn't viable, hard counter unit, stupid etc.) Oracles (coinflippy bullshit) Void Rays (OP) Tempests ("unbeatable in high numbers" why does a unit need so much range???) Carriers (dump all the interceptors whatttt??) Sorry.. I guess the Phoenix is okay. But seriously... Protoss is underperforming. So ONE of these units has to be buffed, at the very least. Would you rather an extra recall or two, or double damage Storm? More Colossus range? Void Ray upgrade vs Light? Bigger disruptors. Think about it...... If the units are the problem maybe whats wrong isn't the balance but the design. You can buff/nerf anything you want, but if the design is bad, the gameplay will always be bad. Theres more to the game than just balance, its important to have well designed units/races/etc to have good gameplay. But I'm not surprised you think this way, you were one of the persons that was the most vocal about HotS being perfect the only problems being SH/WM/medivacs boost (big surprise) | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
Even though i dont see msc energy as so problematic I still dont like it. (recall is good, but retreating units still take damage) think of recall more of a Medivac - boost escape, as soon as you retreat, you will lose things in return. Im also a little surprised blizzard would introduce a change, that promotes deathball play. Theres no reason in the msc beeing in the game at all, in a multi expand, less deathball goal game. - defending with MSC, above "balanced", defending without msc "garbage" | ||
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jubil
United States2602 Posts
I do understand why automated tournaments would require a time limit for games, but I vehemently object to a universal time limit - it's the very definition of a band-aid fix to a problem. If the players are having boring drawn out games, ideally let them figure out how to fix it, if not incentivize them to shorten games through gameplay mechanics, don't simply force the game to be over - players will exploit it or at the very least be forced to alter their strategies around it. | ||
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
On May 12 2015 07:33 EleanorRIgby wrote: so negative, maybe wait to play with the new changes before being so overly critical. What we are criticizing is the overall design. We don't want protoss to be even more dependent on the mothership core. In fact, I don't like the existence of the core at all. People said it countless times during the HOTS beta, but hero units you can only build one of have no place in SC2, those belong in Warcraft. But if protoss was a race that could move out of their base without forfeiting it altogether, we wouldn't need it. So, yes, we're being critical, but only because they're not addressing the basic problems, Blizz is treating the symptoms rather than the illness, if that makes it any clearer to you. | ||
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FT.aCt)Sony
United States1048 Posts
We’re exploring ways to give more power to Terran bio play. We’re trying new ability ideas for the Raven’s PDD and Ghost’s Snipe. We’re developing the new Terran unit We’re getting comfortable with the air unit we’ve been exploring. Here’s how it currently operates: Two attack modes: Fast movement with spash-damage vs air Can enter a stationary-mode where it changes to attack vs ground. This attack targets an area where any units within that area receive high single-target damage. Sure sounds like a Valkryie to me except it can land on the ground like a viking at the same time. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10705 Posts
On May 12 2015 08:26 FT.aCt)Sony wrote: As a final update, we wanted to let you know more about the areas we’re testing internally. We’re exploring ways to give more power to Terran bio play. We’re trying new ability ideas for the Raven’s PDD and Ghost’s Snipe. We’re developing the new Terran unit We’re getting comfortable with the air unit we’ve been exploring. Here’s how it currently operates: Two attack modes: Fast movement with spash-damage vs air Can enter a stationary-mode where it changes to attack vs ground. This attack targets an area where any units within that area receive high single-target damage. Sure sounds like a Valkryie to me except it can land on the ground like a viking at the same time. Good point! | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
The modified stalemate detection seems reasonable for automated tournaments. I don't want to see it on ladder however, where games that players have invested an hour and a half into just end because blizzard thinks the game should be over... | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
On May 12 2015 03:38 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: >Mass Recall cost reduced from 100 energy to 50 energy Because why should a protoss player ever have to worry about good army positioning and movement? Let's just make it so they can have all their units anywhere they want at any time with no consequence! With recall and photon overcharge, there's no need to ever have defensive units at all and you can always move out without worry of being punished ever. They say they want to discourage deathball play, then they make units like the mothership core encourage it in every way. I'm at a loss for words at how dumb this is. Lol photon overcharge is irrelevant from mid game to late game. The fact that protoss army needs to be always complete composition to fight is already hard.. Terran and Z can just got drop or muta harass and leave and the protoss army isnt halfway there. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 12 2015 08:47 Terranist wrote: The new terran unit sounds exciting. The modified stalemate detection seems reasonable for automated tournaments. I don't want to see it on ladder however, where games that players have invested an hour and a half into just end because blizzard thinks the game should be over... Exactly, long games aren't a problem, long AND boring games are though. If you have to battle 2 hours with non stop action all over the map, that's pretty much the most awesome thing which can happen imo | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
This is honestly pretty fucking silly at this point. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On May 12 2015 09:07 -Kyo- wrote: How have you still not decided to fix cyclones or ravagers? This is honestly pretty fucking silly at this point. Well they just took ravagers out of the game, maybe a bit early too put them back. They still want to see more of the other zerg units I guess. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 12 2015 09:11 Musicus wrote: Well they just took ravagers out of the game, maybe a bit early too put them back. They still want to see more of the other zerg units I guess. Hey, I would like to try that roach unit. Do you have any experience with that one? I only ever used infestors, swarm hosts and ravagers. I think there is still room to innovate with that unit. Any Vods I can watch to see that one in action? | ||
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NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
Recall to any base Photon Overcharge 0 Supply Cannons Warp in wherever inb4 next patch photon canons 25 minerals... On May 12 2015 08:56 shin_toss wrote: Lol photon overcharge is irrelevant from mid game to late game. The fact that protoss army needs to be always complete composition to fight is already hard.. Terran and Z can just got drop or muta harass and leave and the protoss army isnt halfway there. Crap! You're right!! If only Protoss had a flying unit that could drop units into other players bases as well!! On May 12 2015 08:26 FT.aCt)Sony wrote: As a final update, we wanted to let you know more about the areas we’re testing internally. We’re exploring ways to give more power to Terran bio play. We’re trying new ability ideas for the Raven’s PDD and Ghost’s Snipe. We’re developing the new Terran unit We’re getting comfortable with the air unit we’ve been exploring. Here’s how it currently operates: Two attack modes: Fast movement with spash-damage vs air Can enter a stationary-mode where it changes to attack vs ground. This attack targets an area where any units within that area receive high single-target damage. Sure sounds like a Valkryie to me except it can land on the ground like a viking at the same time. Should just add a Viking splash (Valkyrie) upgrade somewhere! | ||
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[Erasmus]
Australia286 Posts
On May 12 2015 04:06 bObA wrote: Sounds like good but I am really not sure about splitting again mech ground and air upgrades for terran. When you play tanks hellbats thors you need vikings and banshees. That's absolutely not possible to play mech without air so their idea to play mech ground OR mech air is not viable I would be fine with this if, and a fucking huge if, I didn't have to tech all the way to fusion core to get my cyclones to help shoot up. Thors are clunky and making one or two vs clumped air is fine, but yes either upgraded vikings or cyclones shooting up are absolutely necessary for mech. So maybe just requiring an armory and making the air upgrade for cyclones take twice as long or something would be more practical. Cause fusion cores are not something a ground meching player is going to want (without combined upgrades). | ||
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Dvriel
607 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
Crap! You're right!! If only Protoss had a flying unit that could drop units into other players bases as well!! Oh yeah bec Distruptors can destroy bases.. riigght. | ||
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