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dswarm
United States73 Posts
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knOxStarcraft
Canada422 Posts
On May 04 2015 21:04 DinoMight wrote: Protoss in general just feels really week. Seems like you have to play better than your opponent to win. That's how it should be lol | ||
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Ronski
Finland266 Posts
But I want it to be like HOTS where I can win games while playing worse than my opponent RIP | ||
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
The idea of cyclone is just uninspiring. Zerg units are pretty cool but the lurkers don't t quite _feel_ right. It could be a physics thing? | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On May 05 2015 07:44 Beelzebub1 wrote: I actually did not know that the Viking was just a reworked Goliath. Believe me I am a HUGE supporter of buffing Viking ground mode substantially perhaps to eliminate the need of the Cyclone, some people on various forums have posted lots of awesome ideas. I am a Zerg player (should probably just change my pic) but I just want to see mech and sky Terran be awesome and viable, really wish there could be some Tank buffs down the line so they can hold ground better. I think than MechTerran / Skyterran is more than viable.... The problem is that many units are quite uninspiring or very limited, needing some rework, and some units can't get their role properly working since they are balance around other aspects, like Hellbats and Banshees. Hellbats may need tweaks, Viking in ground mode or the transition time itself needs tweaks, BC's need to be more interesting and usable..and of course Siege tanks in tank mode. But mech already has a very good kit. - Faster unit ingame with linear AoE that melts light units and morphs into - "meele" meatshield unit with AoE and big damage than can be healed by medivacs. - Money shot mines, that can achieve a brutal cost efficiency, considering how easy they 1-shot things. - Siege tanks that can now be picked and fly with the medivacs (overcoming the weakness of a siege unit) - Cyclones, which are broken, easy to use, and it's really cost efficient (mark unit, unit will be killed 90% of the time) - A walking mass that even if clunky, is good AA vs mutas and has the highest DPS ingame. - Speedyvacs that can drop and press a key to get out of danger with you valuable units. - Long range AA with decent damage. - A good air to ground fighter with decent DPS that can cloak - Air support that blocks the shots of other units. - The damn biggest air tanky unit. - A new unit about to come designed to counter all the air units that were problematic to Mech (mutas, Phoenixes) I think the aspect that fails in most mech armies is production speed and the utility of some units. If banshees were a core unit of Mech (reactored or at least with low production time, like a marauder to bio) they would be even morea amazing to use and that would be a buff to mech. But banshees are balanced around the idea of a harass optimized unit, and more oriented towards lategame where they can be massed in groups of 5-7. More mobile Hellbats that weren't balanced around the idea of 1-shot/2-shot things would be also interesting, and of course tracking turrets for Tanks. | ||
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TurnipThrowingPeach
United States151 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
Vikings have exactly the same or better stats than Goliaths, except ground movement speed, and have the advantage of being able to fly and escape danger, something that they couldn't do in BW. Vikings are less cost efficiency on the ground than the Goliath, and when combined with the buff to production speed toss and zerg received in the late game (relative to BW), your much more penalizied for overproducing AA than in BW. The real issue, however, is that all of the Vikings interactions in the game are extremely boring. IMO it makes more sense to have the anti-armored air unit on the ground and the anti-air light unit on the air. A more mobile Viking with moving shot would feel wonders vs Mutas or perhaps Phoenix for instance while its boring as hell vs Broodlords/Vipers/Carriers. On top of that its also good at preventing stuff from happening such as Overlord drops or Warp Prism drop play. Prior to HOTS, it also made medivacs quite inefficient. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
On May 04 2015 12:49 knOxStarcraft wrote: I'm actually shocked this many of you don't like the beta. I've only played ~45 games but so far it's way way more fun than hots. It feels harder to keep up for sure, but this is a good thing obviously. What issues are you guys seeing that are game breaking right now? Don't know about game-breaking, but the issues that I have with the game are the following ones: (note this isn't compared to HOTS, but rather LOTV compared to how I ideally see the game). General - The damage point of most ranged units is 0.16 instead of 0 - Too many delays in the game. E.g when you burrow, lift, lower supply depots, transform. Terran - Raven is unfun to use and play against. - Cyclones... Worst unit in the game. Its not even about balance, but the fact that it interacts awfully with a lot of units. - Mech lacks some type of mobile AA, without this it will be forced to turtle vs air openings. This might be temporary ofc as the new terran air unit can fix that. - I want a defensive late game mech style to be viable (as in BW where you are spread out all over the map and the opponent has the tools to trade vs you). - Ghosts are boring to play with and play against. - Reaper Bombs are balanced around being spammy with no proper reward, which makes them pretty boring. - BC's are still boring Protoss - Sentry is unfun to use and play against. - Protoss lacks a strong core army - Colossus useless and boring - Immortal is now a boring amove unit with a press-a-button ability in order to "micro". - Oracle still needs a moving shot instead of slow acceleration, weird turn rate and super high DPS vs light. - Void Ray is boring. - Carrier "free units" are dumb. - Mothership Core is unfun to use and unfun to play against. - Zealots are too slow and charge should be replaced with a movement speed buff in order to make them better vs 0 damage point ranged units. Zerg - Ravager got overnerfed into uselessness - Abduct lacks counterplay - Ultralisk is a boring unmicroable unit that is now a hardcounter unit. - New Corrupter ability has boring interactions (gimme unit vs unit interactions instead of structure vs units) and too little counterplay. - Swarm Hosts still spawns free units and therefore prevents any unit vs unit interactions from being created. - Nydus Network is awfully designed. - Overlord drops are underpowered. - Broodlords a big deathball a-move unit that only can be countered by a critical mass of unit. Good stuff LOTV adds relative to HOTS - Disruptors (though Warp Prism pick up range might be too large as it removes counterplay in some situations). Also not sure about such an expensive unit only being usefull every 30th Sc2 second. - Siege Tank pickups are pretty fun - Lurkers are fun. - Ravager skillshots are also fun. The could have been so much better but instead is meh'ish - Adept --> Should be balanced alot more around active shadow useage, so much potential there. - Mech transformations --> Should be a bigger part of the game and frequent useage should be reward during engagements. - 12 worker start. Would have been great if scouting tools became easier accessible as well. - Kinda like the economy. At least I believe that the game - with proper unit design/balance - could be reall good. But I would have prefered this economy along with faster build times on bases + infastructure. TLDR Given how many complaints I have with this game, I don't think I am gonna buy it. Blizzard will surely adress some of the points, but given their track-record there is no reason to expect this game to get significicantly better. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 04 2015 12:49 knOxStarcraft wrote: I'm actually shocked this many of you don't like the beta. I've only played ~45 games but so far it's way way more fun than hots. It feels harder to keep up for sure, but this is a good thing obviously. What issues are you guys seeing that are game breaking right now? Played a lot in the last 3days: 12 worker start: game accelerates too fast with too little information and too little tension between teching and pumpin economy. reduced minerals: hardly any difference to HotS economy. Not sure if this is the 100/60 and it was like this with 100/50, but so far most of my games end on 2-4 mining bases, exactly the same as in HotS. The panick that you need to expand a lot sounds vastly exaggerated. The new stuff is great fun to figure out, but most of it doesn't feel principally fun to play with: lurkers lead to turtle play, besides being quite fun otherwise. Just need a few light nerfs imo. ravagers are very pidgeonholed and I hardly ever see them, nor do I make them Irradiate is just that, one click all your stuff dies hahahahaha Playing against cyclones... let's say it doesn't feel different wheter you visit the bathroom or whether you try to micro; your clicks do nothing Disruptors are between useless and completely broken. Mass Adept and mass Reaper feels like it is either stopped very early, or it just spirals out of control. I guess proper openings with those units are still to be figured out. Ah, and non-Zerg players really need to step up their passion. It's ZvZvZvZvZvZvZ... I feel like I got LotV ZvZ completely figured out at this point, but I don't even know what to do past hatch first in the other two match ups. My impression so far is that it is a ton of fun because it is new, but that would also be true if I tried to pick up WC3 today and had already good WC3 mechanics. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On May 05 2015 23:48 Big J wrote: My impression so far is that it is a ton of fun because it is new, but that would also be true if I tried to pick up WC3 today and had already good WC3 mechanics. Having good WC3 mechanics would imply that WC3 wasn't something new for you so I don't really get your point. I get that there's a lot of novelty involved with the fun of LotV, but objectively the games are different. If they stay different, then thats great. If they don't, then it's bad. Also, my personal impression with every matchup: Lurkers.  | ||
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wongfeihung
United States763 Posts
Challenge accepted. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On May 05 2015 23:48 Big J wrote:I feel like I got LotV ZvZ completely figured out at this point, but I don't even know what to do past hatch first in the other two match ups. What do you do in ZvZ? I'm doing 17/17/17 into roach into lurker into get more bases. I'm not sure what to build lategame. | ||
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Creager
Germany1893 Posts
On May 05 2015 18:12 TurnipThrowingPeach wrote: My BF got a key on an alt account that has no Blizzard games purchased on it. This discovery has led me to believe that sometimes invites are truly randomly dispersed. I'm sure they do take the top 20% mmr into consideration, and add those people wave by wave, but it's really weird how they go about it. There's no reason why my BF's main account wouldn't get it first because he has every Blizzard game on it, a WoW subscriber, and plus we are in the pool of Blizzcon attendees that are suppose to have priority. Just cross your fingers and hope for the best, folks. One friend of mine who's still frequently playing SC2 (diamond) got an invite last week while another who hasn't played ladder for ages got one as well, unfortunately I've been too lazy/unmotivated to play for quite some time until they announced changes with the new season (didn't exactly benefit from the mmr decay system ) so I was stuck in gold and now am just slowly crawling back into diamond, currently platinum. Regarding random invites I really seem to be out of luck when it comes to those...But I really hope they'll do something similar at the end of season 2, though, as having a goal like this is a really nice motivating factor to push myself again after such a long period of lurking around only playing few games every season  | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 06 2015 05:10 Tuczniak wrote: What do you do in ZvZ? I'm doing 17/17/17 into roach into lurker into get more bases. I'm not sure what to build lategame. Those are just my thoughts on it, could be completely wrong but here it goes: Ling/bling openings, because ravagers are crap against it and though burrow move is good it isn't that good to break the meta (I guess?). Especially since with the new timings gasless looks pretty much impossible to pull of, so you need speed and when you go speed I think ling/bling is just way more solid (or rather much less costly) than ling/roach early. From there I'm going mutas, because from mutas you can go right into lurkers and you can skip all the roach and fast upgrade investments. Like 8 lurkers + any form of ling/bling/hydra/muta should deal with anything pretty easily, meanwhile your opponent still has to go spore+infestor+hydra+roach when you open mutalisks and could go mass muta/ling/bling but any ground midgame composition is completely garbage because your lurkers kill 1290741258972189752978 supply of ground units in 2shots. I'm not really sure what to do from there, but if it played out like this I'm usually just ahead and go Broodlords+lurkers with lings and mutas for counter attacks. I guess Vipers could be good too. The exact opening I'm using is double extractor trick, 16hatch, 15overlord, 15pool, 15gas, 20queen, 22queen, 24overlord (don't build an overlord to extend the 22supply limit, the superfast finishing hatch will do that). The interesting follow up question is if I'm right with muta openings being best, can you transition into parasitic bombs or do you have to do the degenerate muta wars again. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On May 06 2015 05:59 Big J wrote:... Ok, thanks. Maybe I will experiment with mutas more again. Although I don't like going broodlords lategame and utlras didn't work for me against hydra/lurker. So far it often came to state where both sides split some part of map with lurkers and usually both sides went after mutas, but that's little risky. | ||
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TronJovolta
United States323 Posts
I think it's really great as a top Diamond T that Colossi are weaker. I don't like the marauder nerf however, at least coupled with how strong Ultras are now. The cyclone is really really lame. It sucks that it seems like it will definitely be in the final game. Also, the invincible nydus is literally the stupidest thing they've ever done with the game. The more I play the more I like the eco changes. I'm not experienced or smart enough to really speak on the LOTV eco VS double harvester eco though. My assessment so far. Overall, it seems fun, I just hope bio remains viable. | ||
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RyuuZer0
Australia36 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
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korrekter
1 Post
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