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Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
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[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24193 Posts
May 02 2015 14:59 GMT
#281
On May 02 2015 23:42 Aocowns wrote:
Is there any rationale whatsoever for the weird minimap?

I don't know how there can be any, but even if there were, it's ugly and impossible to read on some maps. It baffles me how such a change can still be in the beta.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9376 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-02 17:30:55
May 02 2015 17:09 GMT
#282
Honestly the game is in a much worse state than I expected. Even if the game ges balanced and new terran units + small design tweaks, I don't see any reason why we should expect inactive players to come back. All of the flaws of HOTS are still prevalent and then they added new lame stuff such as Cyclones and let's be clear here. AA removal fixes nothing. The unit is so ridiclous dumb with its max range. And Reaper ability? Seems so incredibly pointless.
Garbels
Profile Joined July 2010
Austria653 Posts
May 02 2015 17:33 GMT
#283
On May 03 2015 02:09 Hider wrote:
Honestly the game is in a much worse state than I expected. Even if the game ges balanced and new terran units + small design tweaks, I don't see any reason why we should expect inactive players to come back. All of the flaws of HOTS are still prevalent and then they added new lame stuff such as Cyclones and let's be clear here. AA removal fixes nothing. The unit is so ridiclous dumb with its max range. And Reaper ability? Seems so incredibly pointless.


is this how inactive players are feeling? Because it is incredibly far from what I am am feeling as still active hots player.
You are terran right?
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24193 Posts
May 02 2015 17:41 GMT
#284
I think design flaws are even MORE prevalent here than in HotS. The "harass everywhere", "action all over the map" motto is obtained by making the attacker's advantage so ludicrous you just cannot play defensive anymore (not just turtle which is despised for good reasons, but even defensive play has become absurdly hard). Which sounds good, but is bad in the end, because it virtually removes all strategy and depth -and makes Protoss so weak it's funny, but that's secondary for the time being. Choosing to invest into tech has never seemed so vain. Those problems need to be addressed because a knife fight meta doesn't favor the most skilled, it just puts a lot of luck and randomness into the equations. Probably good for spectators, but absolutely terrible if you're trying to create a solid competitive game.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9376 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-02 21:05:23
May 02 2015 17:49 GMT
#285
On May 03 2015 02:33 Garbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2015 02:09 Hider wrote:
Honestly the game is in a much worse state than I expected. Even if the game ges balanced and new terran units + small design tweaks, I don't see any reason why we should expect inactive players to come back. All of the flaws of HOTS are still prevalent and then they added new lame stuff such as Cyclones and let's be clear here. AA removal fixes nothing. The unit is so ridiclous dumb with its max range. And Reaper ability? Seems so incredibly pointless.


is this how inactive players are feeling? Because it is incredibly far from what I am am feeling as still active hots player.
You are terran right?


I think most active players will be satifised with better balance, while most inactive players want a lot more.

It's hard for me to identify areas where I can truly say "that part wasn't good in HOTS, but !@#$%^&* is it fun in LOTV".... Perhaps the exception is tier 3 splash protoss as the Disruptor is much more fun than Colossus. But toss is just fucked so much anyway, and nerfing the Collosus (and keeping the design) and still having Forcefields and an adding a active shild to the Immortal... just makes me not want to play the race at all.

Anyway, the only fun I had so far (after 12 or so) was one game with Siege Tank drops vs Ravager/Lurkers. That's a great interaction. High micro skillcap and lots of counterplay. Gimme me a lot more like that while removing all hardcounters and infitnitive kiting + redesign spellcasters such as Ravens, Ghosts and Sentries + give toss a proper core army --> I am really to evaluate LOTV once again. But untill that point, I don't see any strong reason to play it.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10671 Posts
May 02 2015 17:50 GMT
#286
Welp, if LOTV Beta fails, i'm going back to BW.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
May 02 2015 18:00 GMT
#287
Man, I'm having a really hard time in the beta.

Protoss seems weak. On top of that, it's the 20% basically that are in so everyone is really good. Got STEAMROLLED by a couple of Terrans/Zergs today.

I'm about Diamond level but haven't been playing for a while so it's tough. But so far I find the beta to be a lot of fun, even if it's not quite balanced yet.

I think the macro is a little TOO fast though. I don't think you should start with 12 workers or have to expand THAT quickly. Maybe something this and WoL.

"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
SpiZe
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada3640 Posts
May 02 2015 18:01 GMT
#288
This minimap is straight out of a 360p video wtf
Magnifico
Profile Joined March 2013
1958 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-02 19:54:30
May 02 2015 19:46 GMT
#289
On May 03 2015 02:41 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I think design flaws are even MORE prevalent here than in HotS. The "harass everywhere", "action all over the map" motto is obtained by making the attacker's advantage so ludicrous you just cannot play defensive anymore (not just turtle which is despised for good reasons, but even defensive play has become absurdly hard)


I think its too early to tell. Good players aren't even playing LotV yet. Any definitive judgment has to be based on korean play.

My personal impression so far is that the new worker count has more cons than pros. Today MC stole two gases from Patience, leading to a unique early-mid game. That's dead now.

The new economy in general makes you feel like you are playing against the clock, but something had to be done to end the turtle madness.

I have no words to describe how retard that minimap is, though.

LotV will be better than HotS, that's for sure.
Ovid
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom948 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-02 20:56:57
May 02 2015 20:56 GMT
#290
On May 03 2015 04:46 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2015 02:41 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I think design flaws are even MORE prevalent here than in HotS. The "harass everywhere", "action all over the map" motto is obtained by making the attacker's advantage so ludicrous you just cannot play defensive anymore (not just turtle which is despised for good reasons, but even defensive play has become absurdly hard)


I think its too early to tell. Good players aren't even playing LotV yet. Any definitive judgment has to be based on korean play.

My personal impression so far is that the new worker count has more cons than pros. Today MC stole two gases from Patience, leading to a unique early-mid game. That's dead now.

The new economy in general makes you feel like you are playing against the clock, but something had to be done to end the turtle madness.

I have no words to describe how retard that minimap is, though.

LotV will be better than HotS, that's for sure.



[image loading]

When my match history looks like than you know it's the case.
I will make Yogg Saron priest work...
Beelzebub1
Profile Joined May 2015
1004 Posts
May 02 2015 21:59 GMT
#291
The macro is super fast, I can see the direction that Blizzard is going to go and honestly cutting out the initial "boring" minutes with the 12 worker thing feels like the issue, bringing the minerals to 100/60 was a good move but it's just so many workers right from the get go it's like playing with a super charged economy out of the gates. Perhaps the 100/60 and bring the initial worker count down to 10? I definitely appreciate the boring part of the early game being eliminated but it just feels a bit too fast at the moment.

The minimap also is kind of strange it's really hard to see, turning on colorblind mode helped the slightest bit but it's really hard to see pylons and drops at the moment D:

KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-03 00:01:04
May 02 2015 23:56 GMT
#292
On May 03 2015 02:50 GGzerG wrote:
Welp, if LOTV Beta fails, i'm going back to BW.


I don't want to sound cynical but anyone that expects LotV to make it "just like BW" or something similar was ... not delusional but naive from the beginning.

Be it Blizzard's stubborness in some design philosophies(dumbing down AI in favor of game mechanics for example) or the fact that people don't actually want BW style of difficulty(people find SC2 too hard already - at least if we're talking about the "casuals" we want to get back into the game), there are a lot of reasons why it's not gonna happen.

Best we can hope for is for some, not all, HotS flaws to be fixed. But don't expect SC2 to be like BW - ever. You'll just end up disappointed.


@[PkF] Wire:

I get your point about defensive play to be problematic. But there are multiple approaches to designing aggressive/defensive mechanics. One is to give aggressive options first, analyse those, then give appropriate defensive responses.
Remember, we're still super early in Beta. Nothing has really happened yet apart from a balance patch that fixed some "super obvious" flaws.

You have to remember that you guys are talking about dynamics. You simply cannot design those. All Blizzard can do is give mechanics, see how players work with that(what kind of dynamics emerge) and then respond to that. This takes time. Lots of.

DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
May 03 2015 00:41 GMT
#293
I have had a lot of fun playing LotV

It's refereshing to play something new, and the metagame is like a wild west of unexplored build orders and strategies.

That said, i feel like it's a little bit TOO fast and it punishes you for not expanding instead of REWARDING you for expanding. THe new units are nice and add a complexity to the game that was lacking from HotS.

Will definitely keep playing more and hopefully Blizzard will take some of the community's feedback on the economy.

Also, wtf is this new minimap bullshit? I don't even know why things are different colors... at least if it were consistent I'd appreciate it but right now it's just seemingly random.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
PresenceSc2
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4032 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-03 12:51:40
May 03 2015 12:31 GMT
#294
Holy shit this game is hard for Protoss.

Feel like going back to Hots. Can't believe i'm saying that after only 3 days @_@

The econ change seems to have hit Protoss hard. Zerg gets up to 4 base while Protoss is still struggling to to take a 3rd.
Stephano//HerO//TaeJa//Squirtle//Bomber
PresenceSc2
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4032 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-03 12:34:07
May 03 2015 12:33 GMT
#295
On May 03 2015 05:56 Ovid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2015 04:46 Tiaraju9 wrote:
On May 03 2015 02:41 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I think design flaws are even MORE prevalent here than in HotS. The "harass everywhere", "action all over the map" motto is obtained by making the attacker's advantage so ludicrous you just cannot play defensive anymore (not just turtle which is despised for good reasons, but even defensive play has become absurdly hard)


I think its too early to tell. Good players aren't even playing LotV yet. Any definitive judgment has to be based on korean play.

My personal impression so far is that the new worker count has more cons than pros. Today MC stole two gases from Patience, leading to a unique early-mid game. That's dead now.

The new economy in general makes you feel like you are playing against the clock, but something had to be done to end the turtle madness.

I have no words to describe how retard that minimap is, though.

LotV will be better than HotS, that's for sure.



[image loading]

When my match history looks like than you know it's the case.

Defiantly a zerg player
Stephano//HerO//TaeJa//Squirtle//Bomber
HwiiyiG
Profile Joined March 2010
United States25 Posts
May 03 2015 20:21 GMT
#296
Any confirmation on whether it's MMR or points 20%? I've been mid-high plat and am wondering if I should keep my hopes up for the beta.
Ovid
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United Kingdom948 Posts
May 03 2015 22:23 GMT
#297
On May 04 2015 05:21 ReMaDe wrote:
Any confirmation on whether it's MMR or points 20%? I've been mid-high plat and am wondering if I should keep my hopes up for the beta.


mmr not sure you made the cut
I will make Yogg Saron priest work...
HwiiyiG
Profile Joined March 2010
United States25 Posts
May 03 2015 22:48 GMT
#298
Yeah probably did not. Oh well. thanks!

On May 04 2015 07:23 Ovid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2015 05:21 ReMaDe wrote:
Any confirmation on whether it's MMR or points 20%? I've been mid-high plat and am wondering if I should keep my hopes up for the beta.


mmr not sure you made the cut

knOxStarcraft
Profile Joined March 2012
Canada422 Posts
May 04 2015 03:49 GMT
#299
I'm actually shocked this many of you don't like the beta. I've only played ~45 games but so far it's way way more fun than hots. It feels harder to keep up for sure, but this is a good thing obviously. What issues are you guys seeing that are game breaking right now?
knOxStarcraft
Profile Joined March 2012
Canada422 Posts
May 04 2015 03:53 GMT
#300
On May 02 2015 22:12 darkness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2015 21:24 Matt` wrote:
this beta needs a ladder pretty desperatly


I don't care about ladder as long as they fix speed. It feels so slow, and I don't mean slower because of my hardware because it's superb.

It's default running on the new 64 bit version right now. In the Bnet client settings you can tick a box that will launch the game on the 32 bit version. This helps with the lag apparently.
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