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Active: 1801 users

LotV Balance Update Now Live (April 15)

Forum Index > Legacy of the Void
338 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-15 21:33:47
April 14 2015 20:30 GMT
#1
[image loading]

UPDATE: THE PATCH IS LIVE. FULL INFORMATION HERE




Additional thoughts on future updates in the original article.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/18753758/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-preview-4-14-2015




  • Adept

    • Health changed from 80/60 to 90/90.
    • Adept upgrade changed to a health upgrade instead of the bounce damage: adds 50 Shields to Adepts.
    • Adept can cancel the Shade ability at any time. When you cancel, the Shade disappears and you don’t teleport.


    Our goal for this unit remains unchanged. We want a unit that’s good in early game harassment, which can also serve as a core army unit in the mid/late-game. The health change is because the Adept is much weaker than we expected out of the box. We want smaller numbers of Adepts to be viable in the early-game depending on how the opponent opens the game. We also hope that with this change, Protoss can take expansions a bit quicker and keep up with the other two races in terms of economy.

    The change to the Adept upgrade is because the bounce attack wasn’t getting the micro interactions we were looking for. What we really want out of this upgrade is for Adepts to function well as a core part of the army. The current ability is too pointed towards low health units, but we wanted a more general combat buff. Therefore, we would like to try out something more straightforward.

    The final change is to provide more decision making and power to the player using the Adept’s Shade ability without making it similar to Blink. The most common feedback we hear in this area is that players want to be able to control when the teleport happens, but we’d like to avoid that as that would make this ability more like Blink.


  • Immortal Barrier ability absorbs 200 (up from 100).

    Our goal for the Immortal is for it to be more committed to in-combat situations depending on what the opponent is building. For example, if the Zerg player is going heavy Roach/Ravagers, Protoss can potentially opt to use multiple Robotics Facilities and use the Immortal as the core unit. We also would like to encourage more Immortal drop play in combination with the Warp Prism. Therefore, we decided to buff the Barrier ability to reward Protoss players who are able to utilize this ability properly, as well as reward the opposing player who is able to get around the shields during their short duration by focusing on units in combat.


  • Cyclone after lock-on range down from 15 to 12, but after the range upgrade, lock-on range goes back up to 15.

    This change is really aimed towards getting more early-game Cyclone shot-dodging micro. Before things like unit speed upgrades and Blink come into play, the 15 range feels like it’s just a snipe ability. We’d like to try out this change in hopes of seeing more micro on both sides with early Cyclone usage.

  • Lurker starts off with 9 range, and upgrade is removed. Lurker attack is also more responsive after burrowing.

    The Lurker feels buried at the moment, especially in ZvZ vs. Roaches where we’d really love to see more Lurker play. Against other races the steps needed to start using Lurkers also feels like too much. Hydralisk Den has to be upgraded to the Lurker Den, which also competes with the Hydralisk upgrade, Lurkers then need to be morphed and also research the upgrade before Lurkers are useful. We’d like to try out this change in order to see what happens when Lurker timing is sped up.

  • Tempest disintegration ability damage increased to 550, and units under the effect of disintegration can’t regenerate, heal, or repair health.

    We’re seeing a lot of cool things with many of the end-game units, but the Tempest just doesn’t seem to have a clear role right now, especially vs. Terran as they can just repair through the damage. We really want to see how our initial direction with the new Tempest turns out and this change helps us further evaluate that. Once your units are tagged with Disintegration, you really have to decide if you’ll cut that loss and gain advantages elsewhere, engage in combat, or just decide to go for skirmish attacks during the 80 seconds you have.





What’s next?


In addition to reviewing your feedback after this update, we’re also looking into these areas:

  • Protoss ability to take later bases in larger maps
    • We’re considering having specific units that warp-in faster. Maybe the Adept.
    • Overall, we like the change to warp-in being dependent on position, but maybe we could have specific units that are more resilient to getting picked off quickly.

  • Splitting mech upgrades
    • Internally, we’ve been playing with splitting these upgrades again, and we believe the commitment in upgrades makes for much more interesting pure mech games or bio supported by mech games.
    • Our concern is that we don’t yet know how strong or weak mech is currently. We’d like to first make mech more viable before making this change.

  • Transition late-game units
    • While we feel like we’re doing well in this area, we’d like to evaluate all three races again to confirm.
    • Examples of strong late-game transition units we’re seeing now are: Carriers, Battlecruisers, Banshees with speed, Ultralisks, etc.


We want to be as detailed as possible with sharing our thoughts so that you are all in the loop and can contribute more meaningfully to the testing process. Thank you for playing, watching, and giving feedback during the beta. Your help continues to be a vital part of making Legacy of the Void awesome!


Poll: Adept Changes Overall?

All good! (314)
 
72%

Cancel is good, but health changes no (44)
 
10%

Health changes good, cancel meh (41)
 
9%

Don't like it (36)
 
8%

435 total votes

Your vote: Adept Changes Overall?

(Vote): All good!
(Vote): Health changes good, cancel meh
(Vote): Cancel is good, but health changes no
(Vote): Don't like it


Poll: Immortal Barrier Change?

All good! (252)
 
65%

Not Enough! (79)
 
20%

Too much! (56)
 
14%

387 total votes

Your vote: Immortal Barrier Change?

(Vote): All good!
(Vote): Too much!
(Vote): Not Enough!


Poll: Cyclone Lock-on Change

Why isn't this unit removed yet? (321)
 
55%

Not Enough Decrease! (148)
 
26%

All good! (89)
 
15%

Too much Change! (22)
 
4%

580 total votes

Your vote: Cyclone Lock-on Change

(Vote): All good!
(Vote): Too much Change!
(Vote): Not Enough Decrease!
(Vote): Why isn't this unit removed yet?


Poll: Lurker Range Change?

All good! (311)
 
78%

Too much Increase, change it back! (63)
 
16%

Still not useful! (26)
 
7%

400 total votes

Your vote: Lurker Range Change?

(Vote): All good!
(Vote): Too much Increase, change it back!
(Vote): Still not useful!


Poll: Tempest Ability Change?

Who cares? (223)
 
52%

Too much Increase, change it back! (83)
 
19%

All good! (71)
 
17%

Still not useful! (51)
 
12%

428 total votes

Your vote: Tempest Ability Change?

(Vote): All good!
(Vote): Too much Increase, change it back!
(Vote): Still not useful!
(Vote): Who cares?


Poll: Do you like the general direction of these changes?

No, we need to focus on other aspects. (285)
 
52%

Hard to say at this point. (190)
 
35%

Yes, these are good. (73)
 
13%

548 total votes

Your vote: Do you like the general direction of these changes?

(Vote): Yes, these are good.
(Vote): No, we need to focus on other aspects.
(Vote): Hard to say at this point.



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Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Pontius Pirate
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United States1557 Posts
April 14 2015 20:33 GMT
#2
Ugh, stop trying to make the Tempest ability happen. It's not going to happen.

I mean, it will eventually happen, it's just a terrible idea and should be removed.
"I had to close the door so my parents wouldn't judge me." - ZombieGrub during the ShitfaceTradeTV stream
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3301 Posts
April 14 2015 20:34 GMT
#3
I know this is a balance update, but I sure hope they have not already dismissed changing the economy.

After all, the economic system should be the first thing that is solidified.
T P Z sagi
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3484 Posts
April 14 2015 20:34 GMT
#4
I'm frustrated they didn't push more changes through. Like do they need more feedback, to see that the Ravager/Cyclone is broken?
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
April 14 2015 20:36 GMT
#5
Lurker change is pointless. Cyclones are still dumb. Adepts are still worthless. I dont know how the fuck they decided to change the Tempest of all things since Protoss cant survive to late game anyway
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
royalroadweed
Profile Joined April 2013
United States8301 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 20:42:21
April 14 2015 20:36 GMT
#6
I'm surprised the ravager wasn't nerfed. I like that blizzard is taking their time though rather follow knee jerk community reactions and nerf things into the ground as per usual.

Really don't like the immortal change. Even with the 100 shield they still owned tanks in lower numbers.
"Nerfing Toss can just make them stronger"
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
April 14 2015 20:40 GMT
#7
They're opting to buff toss instead of nerfing the ravager or completely destroying the cyclone, which I like. I'd rather they do this than outright remove them because people don't know how to deal with them in the first public build.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 21:00:58
April 14 2015 20:41 GMT
#8
Cool changes but not everything I expected. Also I disagree that making you able to choose when to teleport to the shade would make that ability close to blink
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
April 14 2015 20:43 GMT
#9
Turn off autocast for cyclones, otherwise i think these are steps in the right direction
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
Talaris
Profile Joined March 2011
Switzerland755 Posts
April 14 2015 20:45 GMT
#10
On April 15 2015 05:36 Teoita wrote:
Lurker change is pointless. Cyclones are still dumb. Adepts are still worthless. I dont know how the fuck they decided to change the Tempest of all things since Protoss cant survive to late game anyway

What's even more saddening is that we got more of this "you cant do anything against this"-1-button-sh1T =/
Stuff dies with Disintegration now, no matter if you bring Queens, Medivacs etc... even MOBA's got more micro-counterplay...
Where's the interaction ? Right next to the interaction that Cyclones or Ravagers provide, hiding in a corner sobbing about it's miserable non-existence ? =(

-= Jaedong // HerO // HasuObs // Best // Rush =-
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10024 Posts
April 14 2015 20:46 GMT
#11
i like the adept change, its gonna be a much more viable middgame unit vs bio terran (an area where protoss was lacking in after the collo nerf).
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
April 14 2015 20:46 GMT
#12
This is painful to read
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9433 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 20:52:26
April 14 2015 20:48 GMT
#13
This change is really aimed towards getting more early-game Cyclone shot-dodging micro. Before things like unit speed upgrades and Blink come into play, the 15 range feels like it’s just a snipe ability. We’d like to try out this change in hopes of seeing more micro on both sides with early Cyclone usage.


15 range is still too much post upgrade. Yes in the exact scenario where you have blink you have a bit of countermicro, but what about in all other scenarios? Speed Roaches and Speed Roaches still can't escape it. Immortals, Colossus???

Anything above 12 range is just a bad idea here, regardless of the point in time.
Talaris
Profile Joined March 2011
Switzerland755 Posts
April 14 2015 20:49 GMT
#14
Adept

Health changed from 80/60 to 90/90.
Adept upgrade changed to a health upgrade instead of the bounce damage: adds 50 Shields to Adepts.
Adept can cancel the Shade ability at any time. When you cancel, the Shade disappears and you don’t teleport.


Our goal for this unit remains unchanged. We want a unit that’s good in early game harassment, which can also serve as a core army unit in the mid/late-game. The health change is because the Adept is much weaker than we expected out of the box. We want smaller numbers of Adepts to be viable in the early-game depending on how the opponent opens the game. We also hope that with this change, Protoss can take expansions a bit quicker and keep up with the other two races in terms of economy.

The change to the Adept upgrade is because the bounce attack wasn’t getting the micro interactions we were looking for. What we really want out of this upgrade is for Adepts to function well as a core part of the army. The current ability is too pointed towards low health units, but we wanted a more general combat buff. Therefore, we would like to try out something more straightforward.

The final change is to provide more decision making and power to the player using the Adept’s Shade ability without making it similar to Blink. The most common feedback we hear in this area is that players want to be able to control when the teleport happens, but we’d like to avoid that as that would make this ability more like Blink.


This might sound blasphemous, but why don't they just try to give the Adept that sort of blink, making it the early-harass and blin-unit and just remove blink from Stalkers (and buff their Anti.air-capabilities or give them 1Armor) to make the Stalker fill the Core (anti-AA) unit that they are so desperately looking for ?

-= Jaedong // HerO // HasuObs // Best // Rush =-
MoosyDoosy
Profile Joined November 2014
United States4519 Posts
April 14 2015 20:50 GMT
#15
YES Lurker buff. :D Hydra Lurker beginning to make a comeback.
"Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-14 20:51:33
April 14 2015 20:51 GMT
#16
On April 15 2015 05:46 TT1 wrote:
i like the adept change, its gonna be a much more viable middgame unit vs bio terran (an area where protoss was lacking in after the collo nerf).


It's not bad per se, it's just beyond insane that it's the only thing we get along the immortal buff (which is not important since you can still count to two after the shield activates and focus the immortal later). Adepts are cute and all but they certainly cant make up for how terrible protoss overall is in the current economic model. I mean, the balance is so horrible that many protoss as well as players of other races are outright refusing to play the beta...
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Skynx
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Turkey7150 Posts
April 14 2015 20:51 GMT
#17
Wat
"When seagulls follow the troller, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much" - King Cantona | STX 4 eva
404AlphaSquad
Profile Joined October 2011
839 Posts
April 14 2015 20:51 GMT
#18
Tldr: Balance update:

-we want to force our ideas no matter how terrible they might be.
-we removed interesting unit interactions.
-we still wont try eco changes.
aka Kalevi
Spect8rCraft
Profile Joined December 2012
649 Posts
April 14 2015 20:53 GMT
#19
None of the changes are giving me a higher opinion of the tempest. It just doesn't seem to add much flavor to Protoss other than filling an anti-massive gap in their ranks. I don't know if Protoss needs a specifically anti-massive unit.
MrMatt
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada225 Posts
April 14 2015 20:58 GMT
#20
I was hoping for at least a mention of all the economy discussion happening lately.
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