LotV Balance Update Now Live (April 15) - Page 16

On April 18 2015 09:54 ohmylanta1003 wrote:
I would just like to say that I hate this community so incredibly much, I can't even begin to explain it. Fuck all your whining, bitching, and moaning. No wonder Blizzard doesn't give a shit about you guys. This is such an incredible game and the people surrounding the game are just fucking ruining it. If they just never released LOTV, I would say we had it coming to us.

Fuck all your whining, bitching, and moaning.

On April 18 2015 10:10 Spect8rCraft wrote:


To calmly retort your statement with your own words:



The other, undesirable extreme to infinitesimal complaining is blind yesmanning. Fact of the matter is, there are things right about their finagling around this expansion, but there are also things wrong about it.

On April 18 2015 10:27 ohmylanta1003 wrote:


It's not blind, yo. Every time there is a thread even remotely related to Starcraft, it's littered with people complaining about the current state of the game, theorycrafting through there silver league games (not saying I'm good, just saying most people don't have the skill necessary to properly complain), and shouting blasphemies at Blizzard, the worst fucking company in the whole world (or at least that's what I'm led to believe by everyone here). I'm sick of such a beautiful game being surrounded by such an awful community and I know I'm not the only one. It literally pushes people away from the game, which is the last thing we need.

On April 18 2015 03:32 Umpteen wrote:


Thanks for further proving my point - which, if you check, was that it makes no sense to say one game punishes and the other rewards. I'll happily take your examples as further support for that.



This, too, I'm perfectly happy to agree with. If you read my other posts, I was not in any way suggesting otherwise. I can totally get behind the idea that LotV's half patch system makes the game 'all about dat (next) base'.

ALL I was arguing against was the use of 'punish vs reward' because it's a terrible, ambiguous, misleading way to describe what's going on, because it relies entirely on the reader's interpretation of what 'punishment' or 'reward' is relative to. If it happens to match what you intended, understanding will occur. If it doesn't - and it clearly often hasn't - it just gets in the way.

On April 18 2015 09:54 ohmylanta1003 wrote:
I would just like to say that I hate this community so incredibly much, I can't even begin to explain it. Fuck all your whining, bitching, and moaning. No wonder Blizzard doesn't give a shit about you guys. This is such an incredible game and the people surrounding the game are just fucking ruining it. If they just never released LOTV, I would say we had it coming to us.

On April 15 2015 10:03 KrazyTrumpet wrote:

It's ok, no one is even making Tempests anyway. Protoss either dies before they can get there (mostly this) or make Carriers (which are better/more fun)

On April 18 2015 18:11 MrFreeman wrote:


Yep, that is why I have written that it doesn´t help you much, but it is in game and it could be quite frustrating watching your unit slowly die and not being able to do anything about it. Just no chance at all to play the "perfect game" .

On April 18 2015 19:38 Grumbels wrote:

I think that's a good point. Watching your units slowly die without counterplay being available is frustrating, much like how killing free units feels pointless even if it's just a game mechanic. And at least irradiate had some control aspects to it, but with the tempest you'll feel helpless.

On April 18 2015 04:55 BaronVonOwn wrote:
You know... We had aggressive play in WoL because of map design. Look at Xel'Naga Caverns and Metalopolis. Community hates those maps now, mainly because protoss cannot survive without being able to turtle.

In any case I don't see why we can only have one standard for resources in the map pool. I think there ought to be a diversity of maps with scarce resources, as well as maps reflecting the current HOTS standard, and easy money maps like BGH for the unranked queue. Just give people more vetoes to compensate. Maps are the easiest way to rebalance the game and enable/prevent different playstyles. It's crazy to not make full use of the flexibility they give.

On April 18 2015 19:28 TurboMaN wrote:
When is the release of the new Terran unit and what will it be?

On April 18 2015 13:12 BronzeKnee wrote:


Everything everyone writes can be interpreted by people however they want to interpret it, that is free will. My definition of reward and punishment was based purely on behavioral psychology (though it is referred to a reinforcement, not reward, in psychology).



So this isn't really left up to interpretation for anyone who submits themselves to science, there is no relativity in these definitions. People confuse punishment and negative reinforcement all the time, but that doesn't mean behaviorists shouldn't use those terms because people are too stupid to understand them. And everyone is free to think what they want, and do whatever they want and talk about how global warming isn't man made, that evolution is a liberal conspiracy or other dumb things...



...but for people that submit themselves to science, then there is only one way to interpret what I said, based on the definitions of the words I used.

To your other point, a single arbitrary baseline across two games, well seems like a great powerful statement, but this isn't exactly black and white because the games are so incredibly similar. I mean it isn't like we are talking about mini-golf and basketball, this is like we are talking about the NBA and International Basketball which are incredibly similar, though they do have some differences in rules, size of the rim, ect. But the strategies and tactics that work in one, work in the other...

Anyway, in this case we are talking about the changes to Starcraft HOTS that will make it into Starcraft LOTV. In this case I think it makes perfect sense to refer to the mineral node changes as a punishing players who don't expand quickly, because they will be losing something they currently have (minerals) if the changes go through and there ability to win games will suffer.

That fits the definition of (negative) punishment very well. If you want to keep your income decent, you must expand.

And I think the proposed change of the TL Strategy team do the opposite, they reinforce expanding. You don't lose anything you already have in HOTS if you don't expand, but they make it more appealing to expand. If you want to make your income better, you can expand.

What you said, which is exactly this: "You are rewarded for expanding in both games, relative to what would happen if you didn't" is completely untrue. You are rewarded for expanding sometimes if the risk pays off in both games. It is not relative to what happens if you didn't, it is in the context of the strategy the other player plays.

However LOTV, you are also punished for not expanding far more so than in HOTS. Thats the difference. The reward for expanding is the same, but the punishment for not expanding is much harsher in LOTV, because you run out of half your minerals quite quickly.

But that is enough of this semantics argument for me. Take the last word on it.

On April 18 2015 10:28 KeksX wrote:


Why are you still here then? Good riddance.

On April 18 2015 22:27 ohmylanta1003 wrote:


I'M STILL HERE, LOL! And I plan on staying here to refute the ridiculous shit that people post around these forums. It's gonna be a fun ride.

On April 18 2015 22:35 404AlphaSquad wrote:

You wont stay long with this attitude anyway.