EPTLotV Balance Update Now Live (April 15) - Page 2
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Topin
Peru10076 Posts
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nubHunter
Spain44 Posts
-we want to force our ideas no matter how terrible they might be. -we refuse to use brood war units and ideas. -we still wont try eco changes. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
On April 15 2015 05:51 Teoita wrote: It's not bad per se, it's just beyond insane that it's the only thing we get along the immortal buff (which is not important since you can still count to two after the shield activates and focus the immortal later). Adepts are cute and all but they certainly cant make up for how terrible protoss overall is in the current economic model. I mean, the balance is so horrible that many protoss as well as players of other races are outright refusing to play the beta... Hmm, Immortal buff --> Better core army vs armored units. Adept buff --> Better core army vs light units. Not the change I would have liked to see with the Immortal, but I don't agree that it isn't a pretty large step in the right direction. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
Take that spot and put the Arbiter back in the game. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On April 15 2015 06:01 Hider wrote: Hmm, Immortal buff --> Better core army vs armored units. Adept buff --> Better core army vs light units. Not the change I would have liked to see with the Immortal, but I don't agree that it isn't a pretty large step in the right direction. Problem is, we still need tech, upgrades and aoe to fight most armies, which we can't get to still. The immortal change is ok i suppose, but it really doesn't address the fact that protoss sucks because we rely on tech, which is not viable currently. On April 15 2015 06:02 Lunareste wrote: I really don't think we need Tempests in the game anymore if Carriers are viable. Take that spot and put the Arbiter back in the game. We have it in the form of the Oracle more or less. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
Problem is, we still need tech, upgrades and aoe to fight most armies, which we can't get to still. If you can get enough strong Immortals out, you don't need AOE though. Robotics Facility, however, still need a significant cost reduction for that to be the case. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On April 15 2015 06:04 Hider wrote: If you can't get enough strong Immortals out, you don't need AOE though. Robotics Facility, however, still need a significant cost reduction for that to be the case. Yes you do need aoe. Mass immortals doesnt beat bio, and isn't versatile enough to compete vs zerg. If they were good enough on their own we would be massing them in HotS, or would have massed them in WoL, where their shield is even stronger. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On April 15 2015 05:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Thank you for playing, watching, and giving feedback during the beta. Your help continues to be a vital part of making Legacy of the Void awesome! This last sentence makes you feel like Blizzard is trolling you! People write essays of high quality, and analyse potential alternatives for the current economy which is still shitty (subjective I know) in LotV. I mean even if they said that they would rather stick with the current system, that would be better than not even mentioning anything at all about the current discussions. It feels like a large part of the community is ignored or that they dont care/know about it. Absolutely disgusting! To all the people that care about the game the most and want it to be the best it can be, I salute you for your passion and hours of hard work, that seems to be ignored by Blizzard. I personally see this as a big "fuck you" towards the community. | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
Also, whatever happened to the idea about slowing the game down from the terrible, terrible damage that ensures fights are over in 2 seconds? | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
Adept Health changed from 80/60 to 90/90. Adept upgrade changed to a health upgrade instead of the bounce damage: adds 50 Shields to Adepts. Adept can cancel the Shade ability at any time. When you cancel, the Shade disappears and you don’t teleport. Feel that the adept needs this to be a core army unit. Don't know if health changes alone do it. Ultra combat shields is kinda weird, but whatever. Don't like the cancel on the shade because it can create weird situations where there's no counterplay. A bunch of shades run to somewhere important while posturing with the army somewhere else important. Opponent splits to counter the shades, shades cancel, engage the now weakened other portion. Immortal Barrier ability absorbs 200 (up from 100). It was too weak, needed something like this. Cyclone after lock-on range down from 15 to 12, but after the range upgrade, lock-on range goes back up to 15. I actually really like the cyclone in theory, but don't like how it's playing out in practice. This doesn't really change how it's being used at all, just a straight nerf. I think it will make an impact in early game cyclones vp though, which is the goal. Lurker starts off with 9 range, and upgrade is removed. Lurker attack is also more responsive after burrowing. More anti-bio changes  I don't want Legacy to default to mech tvz. Maybe this means an eventual buff to the tank so that it could see use with bio again? Maybe this is an internal change based on their thoughts on the siege valk? I think the lurker is primarily not being used because ravagers and other units are amazing, not necessarily because lurkers are bad. It would be like buffing tanks and bio in HotS beta because everyone is massing warhounds.Tempest disintegration ability damage increased to 550, and units under the effect of disintegration can’t regenerate, heal, or repair health. I despise this. It's encouraging an ultra defensive setup where the now pretty quick tempests dart out and zap important things and then fall back. The opponent has to either just eat it or attack into that defensive setup while the protoss is super cost efficient. I think this will undercut some of the design goals in legacy. Not that it matters in ZvP because what protoss is going to be allowed to reach tempests  | ||
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
Yes you do need aoe. Mass immortals doesnt beat bio Incorrect. They beat Maurauders (esp with recent buff)., not Marines. Hence, why the Adept is in the game. When mixed with Guardian Shield and Zealots to tank, the situation further favors protoss. The issue is however twofold: (1) Immortals too slow and easily get outdropped and has no countermicro vs Concussive Shell). (2) Your produce too slowly which mean that in reality your army will consist more of Stalkers, which doesn't do a whole lot vs bio. Solution to midgame protoss - Reduce Robo cost to 100/75 - Increase movement speed of Immortals to 2.75 and remove damage point. - Remove shield from Immortals (lame design) - Increase range to 7 (hence making them scale better and furhter reward focus fire). - Reduce cost, BT and supply of Immortals - Remove/redesign Concussive Shell. Result --> You don't need AOE anymore. You can now produce a strong and bigger core army vs Roaches and you have Adept vs Marines and Lings + you have better escape mechanic and more countermicro. Problem for protoss right now is that they get behind ecowise and their tech/infastructure costs are also pretty high, which makes them rely on AOE. However, reducing infastructure costs and boosting the mobility of the Immortal can fix that. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
I fully expect Lurkers to stay a mediocre unit for a long time. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On April 15 2015 05:36 Teoita wrote: Lurker change is pointless. Cyclones are still dumb. Adepts are still worthless. I dont know how the fuck they decided to change the Tempest of all things since Protoss cant survive to late game anyway How long did you play the new beta version to be so sure of that opinion? | ||
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wongfeihung
United States763 Posts
Overall, I have a negative opinion of this proposed balance update. That's about as simple as I can put it. Seems like they made Adepts even more boring. As for Cyclones, maybe give them some kind of a strafe ability instead of this obscene lock-on attack. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
cyclone is still broken as fuck, the problem hasn't been adressed at all, Terran doesn't even have any reason to do anything else than cyclones every game, in every match ups | ||
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THERIDDLER
Canada119 Posts
Protoss fixed | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On April 15 2015 06:20 [F_]aths wrote: How long did you play the new beta version to be so sure of that opinion? I've played of the current version enough to know adepts don't hold a candle to well...anything, and that cyclones stopping evyerthing that flies is overboard | ||
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padiseal2
Austria721 Posts
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