EPTLotV Balance Update Now Live (April 15) - Page 6
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baabaa101
12 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On April 15 2015 09:04 zeratul_jf wrote: Aren't ppl always complaning to bring back the OPness of units like in BW? Granted the cyclone doesnt require the micro that a reaver did in BW, but siege where freaking strong back then and they had WAY MORE dmg than current siege tanks... and didnt require a lot of micro. I think that cyclones are pretty damn strong but I'm ok with Blizzard making OP units and then buffing other units to combat the OPness rather than nerfing crap into the ground and making them useless, as we have seen before. Even if we were to approach things in that way, which honestly I could care less how we get to a balanced game, it doesn't change the fact that this 'patch' doesn't really address much at all. As TT1 has posted, apparently David Kim knows of some fundamental issues and is working on them, but if they're changing things I don't really understand why this approach is being taken. It seems like a few key issues are being overstepped either in bringing down the OP or making certain units more OP. In either case, the same issues that are present before the patch will remain, and thus, I don't really see what it is going to accomplish. #trustindavidkim #awgawdwegonnadie | ||
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ivancype
Brazil485 Posts
WTF? micro with a 12 range auto attack unit? | ||
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MrFreeman
207 Posts
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Asamu2
7 Posts
On April 15 2015 05:46 TT1 wrote: i like the adept change, its gonna be a much more viable middgame unit vs bio terran (an area where protoss was lacking in after the collo nerf). It MIGHT, but the core problem of gateway units having trash dps is still there. If this change is good enough to make them viable, all it does is make the Adept replace the zealot if you can afford to use the gas on it in PvT, though maybe not because Adepts are still way too slow at base to get around the map in reasonable time. Protoss need DPS so they can actually kill the things that are attacking the bases they are constructing and defend drops/run-bys without committing significantly more resources/supply into defense than the person is using to attack if they want to stop it from doing too much damage. Having more units that can take a lot of damage doesn't really do anything. They already have units for that (Zealots/Stalkers/Archons). Also the cancel makes the teleport too binary. Either you chase the shade and they don't teleport, or you commit to killing the adepts and they do. It should have been a teleport at any point during the shade duration imo. Still waiting on a not Phoenix/ground based answer to mutas. Blink stalkers can delay/deter Mutas for a while, but they don't answer them because their dps is too low to kill the Mutas efficiently once numbers start getting reasonably large. The main problems Protoss has regarding securing bases, defending attacks efficiently, and having all ins that are too strong could largely be resolved by a mobile high DPS gateway unit. Adepts could fill that role with a base statline similar to what they had before, but higher DPS vs armored if the bounce upgrade was on every attack at 50%/25%(muta bounce), and a reasonable base movement rate. The shade wouldn't need to be changed because they would still need an upgrade before they actually have the DPS to be a major threat, and having a higher base movement rate shouldn't cause any major problems with their early harass/damage potential. They could also have their speed increase when charge is researched if they can't have more than 2.25 movement speed early. If necessary, they could reduce the vs light damage to ~19 on a 2.0 attack timer so they don't 2 shot workers and their total HP+shields could be reduced to 120 or so. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:47 imJealous wrote: Agree with this post! The immortal is much weaker now due to the fact that it can be killed. That's fine, the main reason players use them is for their strong damage against armored units anyway. Rather than trying to reinforce the fiction behind the unit (they are 'immortal' hur hur!) they could look to reduce their cost and/or build time proportionately so they can be a more core unit. Would help reduce the risk of going for immortal drops as well. In what universe are 7 range Immortals much weaker vs 4 Range Roaches and 6 (with upgrade) range Hydralisks? Cheaper robo with 7 range Immortals? LOL... Might as well, just make them warpable, that way Protoss could just win every game with a 2 base all-in and as an added benefit, that might make them stop bitching and moaning that they have to actually expand with the new economy. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On April 15 2015 09:14 ivancype wrote: "This change is really aimed towards getting more early-game Cyclone shot-dodging micro. Before things like unit speed upgrades and Blink come into play, the 15 range feels like it’s just a snipe ability. We’d like to try out this change in hopes of seeing more micro on both sides with early Cyclone usage." WTF? micro with a 12 range auto attack unit? Yeah... 12 range is more than nearly every unit. I think it should be more like 4-5 with a max of 15 range after the lock-on. That would be pretty cool compared to what we have now. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20321 Posts
On April 15 2015 09:45 The_Templar wrote: Yeah... 12 range is more than nearly every unit. I think it should be more like 4-5 with a max of 15 range after the lock-on. That would be pretty cool compared to what we have now. 1.5 thermal lance colossi of lock on range :D | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On April 15 2015 09:19 MrFreeman wrote: Oh great, so they added kill any chosen unit button that doesn´t really help you much, but will really frustrate your opponent, gr8 job. It's ok, no one is even making Tempests anyway. Protoss either dies before they can get there (mostly this) or make Carriers (which are better/more fun) | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
Not very encouraging from Blizz. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On April 15 2015 07:22 Hider wrote: Besides Blink Stalkers, what good interactions does a anything above 12 range adds to the game? Tempests and Siege tanks, mostly. Also Carriers, but only in the sense of them pulling back to their leash range after first stepping into their release range. I'm not saying that they absolutely need their huge range, just that it can be worked into the design of the unit with some stat adjustments in other areas. The main reason is simply that the large range gives the controlling player some leeway in which to micro between the Cyclone's range and the targeted unit's range. If the max range is permanently 12, that's a very narrow band against some units, such as Void Rays and Brood Lords. Slight nerf to speed barely change anything here. (going from 2.85 to 2.7 won't matter in 98% of situations). Actually that would double the rate at which Stalkers escape from them or catch up to them. Because their speeds are so close to parity right now, the effects of minor changes are greatly amplified. I like your general Immortal readjustment, btw. Very OneGoalesque. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20321 Posts
On April 15 2015 10:33 Pontius Pirate wrote: Tempests and Siege tanks, mostly. Also Carriers, but only in the sense of them pulling back to their leash range after first stepping into their release range. I'm not saying that they absolutely need their huge range, just that it can be worked into the design of the unit with some stat adjustments in other areas. The main reason is simply that the large range gives the controlling player some leeway in which to micro between the Cyclone's range and the targeted unit's range. If the max range is permanently 12, that's a very narrow band against some units, such as Void Rays and Brood Lords. Actually that would double the rate at which Stalkers escape from them or catch up to them. Because their speeds are so close to parity right now, the effects of minor changes are greatly amplified. I like your general Immortal readjustment, btw. Very OneGoalesque. Yes most people greatly underestimate those effects. If two units are the same speed and suddenly one of them is even 5% faster or slower, it's a huge deal. If you have 2.5 vs 2.7 speed and it's changed to 2.5 vs 2.6, it's a miniscule change on the scope of that one unit but it completely changes the interaction between those two units, halving the movement speed difference | ||
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WhaleOFaTALE1
47 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
On April 15 2015 06:04 Hider wrote: If you can get enough strong Immortals out, you don't need AOE though. Robotics Facility, however, still need a significant cost reduction for that to be the case. protoss needs AoE since stalker dps are pretty shit compared to their counterparts. | ||
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
On April 15 2015 05:49 Talaris wrote: This might sound blasphemous, but why don't they just try to give the Adept that sort of blink, making it the early-harass and blin-unit and just remove blink from Stalkers (and buff their Anti.air-capabilities or give them 1Armor) to make the Stalker fill the Core (anti-AA) unit that they are so desperately looking for ? This is genius. | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
On April 15 2015 10:35 WhaleOFaTALE1 wrote: BLIZZARDF PLEASE READ: This is not an orginal idea, I read from different thread. Design units that are can only be made from a GATEWAY and NOT a warpgate. This would make protoss macro much more interesting and intense. Make a set of only gateway accessible units, such as a dragoon-esque unit or a beefier unit. I can see you taking this a lot of ways. hmm i like this | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
As a terran that thinks the cyclone is a greath unit, the fact that they still can shoot through fog of war is really fucking stupid. On April 15 2015 07:40 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Oh man, I don't understand this patch. How can they not nerf the cyclone and ravager stats... surely that must be number one priority. No reason for the cyclone to have 200 health. No reason for the ravager to have such high damage output. How can people generate proper feedback with those 2 units in their current state... Actually that is because it cost a lot, at 150/150 its more expensive than siege tanks, banshees, medivacs, templars, etc. I think they should nerf both the damage and health of the cyclone but also make them 100/100 or 125/100 or something like that, they are supposed to be mobile map control units that can snipe targets, they shouldn't be the core of mech army itself | ||
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
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