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Thanks to Reddit sleuths, everyone can try the LotV test maps by following instructions here. Note: This is not a beta key, it is simply access to Vs. AI and a Unit Tester. I have no idea how cool with this Blizzard is or is not, use at your own risk. |
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55566 Posts
On March 19 2015 23:56 ejozl wrote:
Yeah it's no copy, but I don't think they're distinct enough. It would feel kind of forced. They would have to make Hellbat mode a static bunker mode or something, or give the Herc energy and some spells I feel.
Frankly, I'd rather hellbats get the ability to enter a bunker but take up the entire space of an unupgraded bunker alone than making them into a stationary turret. So making the HERC slightly more distinct is probably the better option.
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12 worker shit going on :'(. Killing a good chunk of early proxies isn't good for the game, only herO's biggest fanboy didn't liked sOs genius :'(
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On March 19 2015 22:00 c0ldfusion wrote:
I was skeptical of the Adept but apparently the pros love it.
So fine by me...
the pros who've a trouble with the 3rd base concept :D
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So, because I dislike not coming up with a proper solution when complaining about something, here is my new and hyperinteresting Snipe change! Let me know what you think ^_^
Snipe (50 Energy)(5 second Cooldown):
- Biological: Deals 75 damage to Biological units, -15 Massive, +15 Psionic (secures the 1shot on High Templar, 2shot on Viper, 2shot on Queen,
- Mechanical: Deals 0 damage to Mechanical units. Unit gets stunned for 15 seconds. Unit cannot move, attack or use abilities, but can be repaired, moved through dropships and be attacked.
In case a unit is both Biological and Mechanical (SCV/Hellbat), Biological damage is done.
Essentially, Lockdown and a buffed version of Snipe in one!
For comparison, 2 WOL Snipe vs 2 HOTS Snipe vs 1 LOTV Snipe (all 50 energy):
90 Damage vs 50 damage Bio, 100 damage Psionic vs 75 damage Bio, 90 damage Psionic, 60 damage Massive
I really think this is the kind of thing you could experiment with. Ghost are extremely vulnerable and expensive units. They become excellent specialist units in all matchups.
TvP - Ghost can now deal with HT throuh EMP, but also with poorly positioned Collosi. This allows for changes to the Viking as Ghost can take the Anti- Collosus role in late game. Additonally, they can now deal with Disruptor Flanks if you respond fast enough (should NOT be able to fire through the invulnerability, but can now zone Disruptors out). Concerns: If the Adept and Disruptor Flanks are not able to compete with Bio armies somewhat properly and Tempest Disintegration isn't usable as a counter, Mass MMM Ghost might be too powerful.
TvZ - As the economy is going to force the battles to be even more spread out, Ghosts now pose a threat to Zerg through insane single target burst damage in Snipe. This allows Ghost to A) quickly neutralize potential Zerg threats (Infestors, Vipers) but also B) deal high burst damage to Ultralisk, Broodlords, Mutalisk or Corruptors. Through Lurker traps, Infestor range and mobility advantages, Zerg should be able to deal with this renewed Snipe.
TvT - Ghost can become the transition for Bio armies to force a way through the split up Terran Mech ball. By using Snipes secondary effect, small numbers of unprotected Siege Tanks (having suboptimal vision, no detection) can easily be disabled and dispatched of. This forces Terran Mech players to remain very mobile.
Note:
- Increase Infestor health by 5 to prevent the 1-shot kill.
- Increase Feedback range to 10 to ensure HT can win the Snipe/Feedback war 100% (given Feedback is instant, Snipe has an animation)
- The 5 second cooldown ensures Ghost Snipe will not be used as a spammable ability where you can simply mass a high Ghost count and kill/disable everything. Additionally, experimentation with raising the supply cost to 3 might be worthwhile.
- Ghost are very expensive units, so it's not like you'll have to deal with 20 Rambo Ghosts all of a sudden, this is really a potential lategame transition for the Terran!
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Doesn't a wall-off pretty much negate Adepts?
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On March 20 2015 00:23 Tenks wrote:
Doesn't a wall-off pretty much negate Adepts?
You don't have to use them as a dedicated harass/runby unit. They seem to be good in a straight fight, and the ability can also be used for flanks and mid-battle aggressive repositioning.
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On March 20 2015 00:23 Tenks wrote:
Doesn't a wall-off pretty much negate Adepts?
It only negates their ability to run into a mineral line with immunity. Which I suppose is a pretty good thing 
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On March 20 2015 00:25 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 00:23 Tenks wrote:
Doesn't a wall-off pretty much negate Adepts? It only negates their ability to run into a mineral line with immunity. Which I suppose is a pretty good thing
yep, that's already what blink stalkers are for 
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On March 20 2015 00:13 sAsImre wrote:the pros who've a trouble with the 3rd base concept :D
HuK i feel might go crazy with bases in legacy
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I fail to see why invincibility / immunity is even a thing outside of spells like stasis.
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On March 20 2015 00:23 SC2Toastie wrote:
So, because I dislike not coming up with a proper solution when complaining about something, here is my new and hyperinteresting Snipe change! Let me know what you think ^_^
Snipe (50 Energy)(5 second Cooldown):
[*]Biological: Deals 75 damage to Biological units, -15 Massive, +15 Psionic (secures the 1shot on High Templar, 2shot on Viper, 2shot on Queen,
[*]Mechanical: Deals 0 damage to Mechanical units. Unit gets stunned for 15 seconds. Unit cannot move, attack or use abilities, but can be repaired, moved through dropships and be attacked.
In case a unit is both Biological and Mechanical (SCV/Hellbat), Biological damage is done.
Essentially, Lockdown and a buffed version of Snipe in one!
For comparison, 2 WOL Snipe vs 2 HOTS Snipe vs 1 LOTV Snipe (all 50 energy):
90 Damage vs 50 damage Bio, 100 damage Psionic vs 75 damage Bio, 90 damage Psionic, 60 damage Massive
I really think this is the kind of thing you could experiment with. Ghost are extremely vulnerable and expensive units. They become excellent specialist units in all matchups.
TvP - Ghost can now deal with HT throuh EMP, but also with poorly positioned Collosi. This allows for changes to the Viking as Ghost can take the Anti- Collosus role in late game. Additonally, they can now deal with Disruptor Flanks if you respond fast enough (should NOT be able to fire through the invulnerability, but can now zone Disruptors out). Concerns: If the Adept and Disruptor Flanks are not able to compete with Bio armies somewhat properly and Tempest Disintegration isn't usable as a counter, Mass MMM Ghost might be too powerful.
TvZ - As the economy is going to force the battles to be even more spread out, Ghosts now pose a threat to Zerg through insane single target burst damage in Snipe. This allows Ghost to A) quickly neutralize potential Zerg threats (Infestors, Vipers) but also B) deal high burst damage to Ultralisk, Broodlords, Mutalisk or Corruptors. Through Lurker traps, Infestor range and mobility advantages, Zerg should be able to deal with this renewed Snipe.
TvT - Ghost can become the transition for Bio armies to force a way through the split up Terran Mech ball. By using Snipes secondary effect, small numbers of unprotected Siege Tanks (having suboptimal vision, no detection) can easily be disabled and dispatched of. This forces Terran Mech players to remain very mobile.
Note:
[*]Increase Infestor health by 5 to prevent the 1-shot kill.
[*]Increase Feedback range to 10 to ensure HT can win the Snipe/Feedback war 100% (given Feedback is instant, Snipe has an animation)
[*]The 5 second cooldown ensures Ghost Snipe will not be used as a spammable ability where you can simply mass a high Ghost count and kill/disable everything. Additionally, experimentation with raising the supply cost to 3 might be worthwhile.
[*]Ghost are very expensive units, so it's not like you'll have to deal with 20 Rambo Ghosts all of a sudden, this is really a potential lategame transition for the Terran!
Other ideas?
Ravens receiving a Silent Ward. Silence means NO unit abilities can be used, passive or active (excluding form changes). The ward should be active for only a short time (20s?) and have pretty small range, but be an excellent defense against Tempest Disintegration or Psionic Storm/Fungal in chokes.
the fact that you are willing to buff other units to prevent imbalance really adds legitimacy to this, thus I think this could work!
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On March 20 2015 00:30 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 00:23 SC2Toastie wrote:
So, because I dislike not coming up with a proper solution when complaining about something, here is my new and hyperinteresting Snipe change! Let me know what you think ^_^
Snipe (50 Energy)(5 second Cooldown):
[*]Biological: Deals 75 damage to Biological units, -15 Massive, +15 Psionic (secures the 1shot on High Templar, 2shot on Viper, 2shot on Queen,
[*]Mechanical: Deals 0 damage to Mechanical units. Unit gets stunned for 15 seconds. Unit cannot move, attack or use abilities, but can be repaired, moved through dropships and be attacked.
In case a unit is both Biological and Mechanical (SCV/Hellbat), Biological damage is done.
Essentially, Lockdown and a buffed version of Snipe in one!
For comparison, 2 WOL Snipe vs 2 HOTS Snipe vs 1 LOTV Snipe (all 50 energy):
90 Damage vs 50 damage Bio, 100 damage Psionic vs 75 damage Bio, 90 damage Psionic, 60 damage Massive
I really think this is the kind of thing you could experiment with. Ghost are extremely vulnerable and expensive units. They become excellent specialist units in all matchups.
TvP - Ghost can now deal with HT throuh EMP, but also with poorly positioned Collosi. This allows for changes to the Viking as Ghost can take the Anti- Collosus role in late game. Additonally, they can now deal with Disruptor Flanks if you respond fast enough (should NOT be able to fire through the invulnerability, but can now zone Disruptors out). Concerns: If the Adept and Disruptor Flanks are not able to compete with Bio armies somewhat properly and Tempest Disintegration isn't usable as a counter, Mass MMM Ghost might be too powerful.
TvZ - As the economy is going to force the battles to be even more spread out, Ghosts now pose a threat to Zerg through insane single target burst damage in Snipe. This allows Ghost to A) quickly neutralize potential Zerg threats (Infestors, Vipers) but also B) deal high burst damage to Ultralisk, Broodlords, Mutalisk or Corruptors. Through Lurker traps, Infestor range and mobility advantages, Zerg should be able to deal with this renewed Snipe.
TvT - Ghost can become the transition for Bio armies to force a way through the split up Terran Mech ball. By using Snipes secondary effect, small numbers of unprotected Siege Tanks (having suboptimal vision, no detection) can easily be disabled and dispatched of. This forces Terran Mech players to remain very mobile.
Note:
[*]Increase Infestor health by 5 to prevent the 1-shot kill.
[*]Increase Feedback range to 10 to ensure HT can win the Snipe/Feedback war 100% (given Feedback is instant, Snipe has an animation)
[*]The 5 second cooldown ensures Ghost Snipe will not be used as a spammable ability where you can simply mass a high Ghost count and kill/disable everything. Additionally, experimentation with raising the supply cost to 3 might be worthwhile.
[*]Ghost are very expensive units, so it's not like you'll have to deal with 20 Rambo Ghosts all of a sudden, this is really a potential lategame transition for the Terran!
Other ideas?
Ravens receiving a Silent Ward. Silence means NO unit abilities can be used, passive or active (excluding form changes). The ward should be active for only a short time (20s?) and have pretty small range, but be an excellent defense against Tempest Disintegration or Psionic Storm/Fungal in chokes. the fact that you are willing to buff other units to prevent imbalance really adds legitimacy to this, thus I think this could work!
Might be preferable to not quote the entire post.
Thanks for the feedback. I want to see a balanced game, not a TvT roflstomp fest. We've seen how an age of only mirrors play out for each of the three races (MVP TvT age, Patchzerg era, Power of Protoss), so balance is good!
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On March 20 2015 00:29 Gnosis wrote:
I fail to see why invincibility / immunity is even a thing outside of spells like stasis.
Was about to post that as well. So many extreme things in SC2, why does it have to be immunity, teleport, onehit damage etc...
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55566 Posts
On March 20 2015 00:31 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 00:30 Cricketer12 wrote:On March 20 2015 00:23 SC2Toastie wrote:
So, because I dislike not coming up with a proper solution when complaining about something, here is my new and hyperinteresting Snipe change! Let me know what you think ^_^
Snipe (50 Energy)(5 second Cooldown):
[*]Biological: Deals 75 damage to Biological units, -15 Massive, +15 Psionic (secures the 1shot on High Templar, 2shot on Viper, 2shot on Queen,
[*]Mechanical: Deals 0 damage to Mechanical units. Unit gets stunned for 15 seconds. Unit cannot move, attack or use abilities, but can be repaired, moved through dropships and be attacked.
In case a unit is both Biological and Mechanical (SCV/Hellbat), Biological damage is done.
Essentially, Lockdown and a buffed version of Snipe in one!
For comparison, 2 WOL Snipe vs 2 HOTS Snipe vs 1 LOTV Snipe (all 50 energy):
90 Damage vs 50 damage Bio, 100 damage Psionic vs 75 damage Bio, 90 damage Psionic, 60 damage Massive
I really think this is the kind of thing you could experiment with. Ghost are extremely vulnerable and expensive units. They become excellent specialist units in all matchups.
TvP - Ghost can now deal with HT throuh EMP, but also with poorly positioned Collosi. This allows for changes to the Viking as Ghost can take the Anti- Collosus role in late game. Additonally, they can now deal with Disruptor Flanks if you respond fast enough (should NOT be able to fire through the invulnerability, but can now zone Disruptors out). Concerns: If the Adept and Disruptor Flanks are not able to compete with Bio armies somewhat properly and Tempest Disintegration isn't usable as a counter, Mass MMM Ghost might be too powerful.
TvZ - As the economy is going to force the battles to be even more spread out, Ghosts now pose a threat to Zerg through insane single target burst damage in Snipe. This allows Ghost to A) quickly neutralize potential Zerg threats (Infestors, Vipers) but also B) deal high burst damage to Ultralisk, Broodlords, Mutalisk or Corruptors. Through Lurker traps, Infestor range and mobility advantages, Zerg should be able to deal with this renewed Snipe.
TvT - Ghost can become the transition for Bio armies to force a way through the split up Terran Mech ball. By using Snipes secondary effect, small numbers of unprotected Siege Tanks (having suboptimal vision, no detection) can easily be disabled and dispatched of. This forces Terran Mech players to remain very mobile.
Note:
[*]Increase Infestor health by 5 to prevent the 1-shot kill.
[*]Increase Feedback range to 10 to ensure HT can win the Snipe/Feedback war 100% (given Feedback is instant, Snipe has an animation)
[*]The 5 second cooldown ensures Ghost Snipe will not be used as a spammable ability where you can simply mass a high Ghost count and kill/disable everything. Additionally, experimentation with raising the supply cost to 3 might be worthwhile.
[*]Ghost are very expensive units, so it's not like you'll have to deal with 20 Rambo Ghosts all of a sudden, this is really a potential lategame transition for the Terran!
Other ideas?
Ravens receiving a Silent Ward. Silence means NO unit abilities can be used, passive or active (excluding form changes). The ward should be active for only a short time (20s?) and have pretty small range, but be an excellent defense against Tempest Disintegration or Psionic Storm/Fungal in chokes. the fact that you are willing to buff other units to prevent imbalance really adds legitimacy to this, thus I think this could work! Might be preferable to not quote the entire post. Thanks for the feedback. I want to see a balanced game, not a TvT roflstomp fest. We've seen how an age of only mirrors play out for each of the three races (MVP TvT age, Patchzerg era, Power of Protoss), so balance is good!
I think that snipe costing 50 and being that strong might be imbalanced. Feedback only kills units when they have as much/more energy compared to their HP, that snipe always insta-kills an HT for the same energy cost. Additionally, I'd consider moving the "Lockdown" effect to EMP, because that's what an EMP does <.<
I also don't like the raven idea, 20 seconds of no abilities is broken and ungodly good imo.
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On March 20 2015 00:39 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 00:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On March 20 2015 00:30 Cricketer12 wrote:On March 20 2015 00:23 SC2Toastie wrote:
So, because I dislike not coming up with a proper solution when complaining about something, here is my new and hyperinteresting Snipe change! Let me know what you think ^_^
Snipe (50 Energy)(5 second Cooldown):
[*]Biological: Deals 75 damage to Biological units, -15 Massive, +15 Psionic (secures the 1shot on High Templar, 2shot on Viper, 2shot on Queen,
[*]Mechanical: Deals 0 damage to Mechanical units. Unit gets stunned for 15 seconds. Unit cannot move, attack or use abilities, but can be repaired, moved through dropships and be attacked.
In case a unit is both Biological and Mechanical (SCV/Hellbat), Biological damage is done.
Essentially, Lockdown and a buffed version of Snipe in one!
For comparison, 2 WOL Snipe vs 2 HOTS Snipe vs 1 LOTV Snipe (all 50 energy):
90 Damage vs 50 damage Bio, 100 damage Psionic vs 75 damage Bio, 90 damage Psionic, 60 damage Massive
I really think this is the kind of thing you could experiment with. Ghost are extremely vulnerable and expensive units. They become excellent specialist units in all matchups.
TvP - Ghost can now deal with HT throuh EMP, but also with poorly positioned Collosi. This allows for changes to the Viking as Ghost can take the Anti- Collosus role in late game. Additonally, they can now deal with Disruptor Flanks if you respond fast enough (should NOT be able to fire through the invulnerability, but can now zone Disruptors out). Concerns: If the Adept and Disruptor Flanks are not able to compete with Bio armies somewhat properly and Tempest Disintegration isn't usable as a counter, Mass MMM Ghost might be too powerful.
TvZ - As the economy is going to force the battles to be even more spread out, Ghosts now pose a threat to Zerg through insane single target burst damage in Snipe. This allows Ghost to A) quickly neutralize potential Zerg threats (Infestors, Vipers) but also B) deal high burst damage to Ultralisk, Broodlords, Mutalisk or Corruptors. Through Lurker traps, Infestor range and mobility advantages, Zerg should be able to deal with this renewed Snipe.
TvT - Ghost can become the transition for Bio armies to force a way through the split up Terran Mech ball. By using Snipes secondary effect, small numbers of unprotected Siege Tanks (having suboptimal vision, no detection) can easily be disabled and dispatched of. This forces Terran Mech players to remain very mobile.
Note:
[*]Increase Infestor health by 5 to prevent the 1-shot kill.
[*]Increase Feedback range to 10 to ensure HT can win the Snipe/Feedback war 100% (given Feedback is instant, Snipe has an animation)
[*]The 5 second cooldown ensures Ghost Snipe will not be used as a spammable ability where you can simply mass a high Ghost count and kill/disable everything. Additionally, experimentation with raising the supply cost to 3 might be worthwhile.
[*]Ghost are very expensive units, so it's not like you'll have to deal with 20 Rambo Ghosts all of a sudden, this is really a potential lategame transition for the Terran!
Other ideas?
Ravens receiving a Silent Ward. Silence means NO unit abilities can be used, passive or active (excluding form changes). The ward should be active for only a short time (20s?) and have pretty small range, but be an excellent defense against Tempest Disintegration or Psionic Storm/Fungal in chokes. the fact that you are willing to buff other units to prevent imbalance really adds legitimacy to this, thus I think this could work! Might be preferable to not quote the entire post. Thanks for the feedback. I want to see a balanced game, not a TvT roflstomp fest. We've seen how an age of only mirrors play out for each of the three races (MVP TvT age, Patchzerg era, Power of Protoss), so balance is good! I think that snipe costing 50 and being that strong might be imbalanced. Feedback only kills units when they have as much/more energy compared to their HP, that snipe always insta-kills an HT for the same energy cost. Additionally, I'd consider moving the "Lockdown" effect to EMP, because that's what an EMP does <.< I also don't like the raven idea, 20 seconds of no abilities is broken and ungodly good imo.
The Raven was just an additional ramble on my part, I removed it.
As for the Snipe, why do you think it is imbalanced? For the same energy cost, Ghosts currently have a 1 range advantage over HT and instantly kill it. Notice, I proposed +1 range to Feedback, which gives Protoss a 100% winrate in Feedback vs Snipe. EMP would be way too powerful with a Lockdown effect as it is AOE. Having it on Snipe makes more sense design wise, though the names are somewhat confusing, probably.
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On March 20 2015 00:45 sorrowptoss wrote:
wait is this a joke?
Is this real life?
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55566 Posts
On March 20 2015 00:44 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 00:39 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2015 00:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On March 20 2015 00:30 Cricketer12 wrote:On March 20 2015 00:23 SC2Toastie wrote:
So, because I dislike not coming up with a proper solution when complaining about something, here is my new and hyperinteresting Snipe change! Let me know what you think ^_^
Snipe (50 Energy)(5 second Cooldown):
[*]Biological: Deals 75 damage to Biological units, -15 Massive, +15 Psionic (secures the 1shot on High Templar, 2shot on Viper, 2shot on Queen,
[*]Mechanical: Deals 0 damage to Mechanical units. Unit gets stunned for 15 seconds. Unit cannot move, attack or use abilities, but can be repaired, moved through dropships and be attacked.
In case a unit is both Biological and Mechanical (SCV/Hellbat), Biological damage is done.
Essentially, Lockdown and a buffed version of Snipe in one!
For comparison, 2 WOL Snipe vs 2 HOTS Snipe vs 1 LOTV Snipe (all 50 energy):
90 Damage vs 50 damage Bio, 100 damage Psionic vs 75 damage Bio, 90 damage Psionic, 60 damage Massive
I really think this is the kind of thing you could experiment with. Ghost are extremely vulnerable and expensive units. They become excellent specialist units in all matchups.
TvP - Ghost can now deal with HT throuh EMP, but also with poorly positioned Collosi. This allows for changes to the Viking as Ghost can take the Anti- Collosus role in late game. Additonally, they can now deal with Disruptor Flanks if you respond fast enough (should NOT be able to fire through the invulnerability, but can now zone Disruptors out). Concerns: If the Adept and Disruptor Flanks are not able to compete with Bio armies somewhat properly and Tempest Disintegration isn't usable as a counter, Mass MMM Ghost might be too powerful.
TvZ - As the economy is going to force the battles to be even more spread out, Ghosts now pose a threat to Zerg through insane single target burst damage in Snipe. This allows Ghost to A) quickly neutralize potential Zerg threats (Infestors, Vipers) but also B) deal high burst damage to Ultralisk, Broodlords, Mutalisk or Corruptors. Through Lurker traps, Infestor range and mobility advantages, Zerg should be able to deal with this renewed Snipe.
TvT - Ghost can become the transition for Bio armies to force a way through the split up Terran Mech ball. By using Snipes secondary effect, small numbers of unprotected Siege Tanks (having suboptimal vision, no detection) can easily be disabled and dispatched of. This forces Terran Mech players to remain very mobile.
Note:
[*]Increase Infestor health by 5 to prevent the 1-shot kill.
[*]Increase Feedback range to 10 to ensure HT can win the Snipe/Feedback war 100% (given Feedback is instant, Snipe has an animation)
[*]The 5 second cooldown ensures Ghost Snipe will not be used as a spammable ability where you can simply mass a high Ghost count and kill/disable everything. Additionally, experimentation with raising the supply cost to 3 might be worthwhile.
[*]Ghost are very expensive units, so it's not like you'll have to deal with 20 Rambo Ghosts all of a sudden, this is really a potential lategame transition for the Terran!
Other ideas?
Ravens receiving a Silent Ward. Silence means NO unit abilities can be used, passive or active (excluding form changes). The ward should be active for only a short time (20s?) and have pretty small range, but be an excellent defense against Tempest Disintegration or Psionic Storm/Fungal in chokes. the fact that you are willing to buff other units to prevent imbalance really adds legitimacy to this, thus I think this could work! Might be preferable to not quote the entire post. Thanks for the feedback. I want to see a balanced game, not a TvT roflstomp fest. We've seen how an age of only mirrors play out for each of the three races (MVP TvT age, Patchzerg era, Power of Protoss), so balance is good! I think that snipe costing 50 and being that strong might be imbalanced. Feedback only kills units when they have as much/more energy compared to their HP, that snipe always insta-kills an HT for the same energy cost. Additionally, I'd consider moving the "Lockdown" effect to EMP, because that's what an EMP does <.< I also don't like the raven idea, 20 seconds of no abilities is broken and ungodly good imo. The Raven was just an additional ramble on my part, I removed it. As for the Snipe, why do you think it is imbalanced? For the same energy cost, Ghosts currently have a 1 range advantage over HT and instantly kill it. Notice, I proposed +1 range to Feedback, which gives Protoss a 100% winrate in Feedback vs Snipe. EMP would be way too powerful with a Lockdown effect as it is AOE. Having it on Snipe makes more sense design wise, though the names are somewhat confusing, probably.
Snipe doesn't insta-kill a HT right now, you need at least 2 queued Snipes, that's 100 energy to kill a HT. As for the Feedback vs Snipe thing, yes the range change is nice, but if your ghosts are below 100 energy Feedback can't kill them. Then they get healed up by medivacs and can at least still fight, compared to HTs without energy who can only help the Protoss anymore by becoming archons and buffering.
Imo, EMP needs a redesign. It makes no sense for it to drain HTs Psionic energies. Rather, it should weaken shields and disable mechanical units in the target area for a short period of time. Then you can use Snipe as a counter for all biological spellcasters and EMPs against sentries and ravens (and the like), while giving the EMP the added utility of breaking TvT tank lines and being useful against many other Protoss units. To balance that, you can decrease the radius of the EMP or make it so only one mechanical unit will be disabled per EMP used so that you can't lock down an entire army with 2 EMPs. Maybe, to balance it out a bit, make it so that units with the "Massive" tag don't get completely disabled but only incapable of moving (huge tech units like carriers would have backups in case of an EMP, it would make total sense). Would also encourage spreading and toning down deathball play.
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On March 20 2015 01:00 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 00:44 SC2Toastie wrote:On March 20 2015 00:39 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2015 00:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On March 20 2015 00:30 Cricketer12 wrote:On March 20 2015 00:23 SC2Toastie wrote:
So, because I dislike not coming up with a proper solution when complaining about something, here is my new and hyperinteresting Snipe change! Let me know what you think ^_^
Snipe (50 Energy)(5 second Cooldown):
[*]Biological: Deals 75 damage to Biological units, -15 Massive, +15 Psionic (secures the 1shot on High Templar, 2shot on Viper, 2shot on Queen,
[*]Mechanical: Deals 0 damage to Mechanical units. Unit gets stunned for 15 seconds. Unit cannot move, attack or use abilities, but can be repaired, moved through dropships and be attacked.
In case a unit is both Biological and Mechanical (SCV/Hellbat), Biological damage is done.
Essentially, Lockdown and a buffed version of Snipe in one!
For comparison, 2 WOL Snipe vs 2 HOTS Snipe vs 1 LOTV Snipe (all 50 energy):
90 Damage vs 50 damage Bio, 100 damage Psionic vs 75 damage Bio, 90 damage Psionic, 60 damage Massive
I really think this is the kind of thing you could experiment with. Ghost are extremely vulnerable and expensive units. They become excellent specialist units in all matchups.
TvP - Ghost can now deal with HT throuh EMP, but also with poorly positioned Collosi. This allows for changes to the Viking as Ghost can take the Anti- Collosus role in late game. Additonally, they can now deal with Disruptor Flanks if you respond fast enough (should NOT be able to fire through the invulnerability, but can now zone Disruptors out). Concerns: If the Adept and Disruptor Flanks are not able to compete with Bio armies somewhat properly and Tempest Disintegration isn't usable as a counter, Mass MMM Ghost might be too powerful.
TvZ - As the economy is going to force the battles to be even more spread out, Ghosts now pose a threat to Zerg through insane single target burst damage in Snipe. This allows Ghost to A) quickly neutralize potential Zerg threats (Infestors, Vipers) but also B) deal high burst damage to Ultralisk, Broodlords, Mutalisk or Corruptors. Through Lurker traps, Infestor range and mobility advantages, Zerg should be able to deal with this renewed Snipe.
TvT - Ghost can become the transition for Bio armies to force a way through the split up Terran Mech ball. By using Snipes secondary effect, small numbers of unprotected Siege Tanks (having suboptimal vision, no detection) can easily be disabled and dispatched of. This forces Terran Mech players to remain very mobile.
Note:
[*]Increase Infestor health by 5 to prevent the 1-shot kill.
[*]Increase Feedback range to 10 to ensure HT can win the Snipe/Feedback war 100% (given Feedback is instant, Snipe has an animation)
[*]The 5 second cooldown ensures Ghost Snipe will not be used as a spammable ability where you can simply mass a high Ghost count and kill/disable everything. Additionally, experimentation with raising the supply cost to 3 might be worthwhile.
[*]Ghost are very expensive units, so it's not like you'll have to deal with 20 Rambo Ghosts all of a sudden, this is really a potential lategame transition for the Terran!
Other ideas?
Ravens receiving a Silent Ward. Silence means NO unit abilities can be used, passive or active (excluding form changes). The ward should be active for only a short time (20s?) and have pretty small range, but be an excellent defense against Tempest Disintegration or Psionic Storm/Fungal in chokes. the fact that you are willing to buff other units to prevent imbalance really adds legitimacy to this, thus I think this could work! Might be preferable to not quote the entire post. Thanks for the feedback. I want to see a balanced game, not a TvT roflstomp fest. We've seen how an age of only mirrors play out for each of the three races (MVP TvT age, Patchzerg era, Power of Protoss), so balance is good! I think that snipe costing 50 and being that strong might be imbalanced. Feedback only kills units when they have as much/more energy compared to their HP, that snipe always insta-kills an HT for the same energy cost. Additionally, I'd consider moving the "Lockdown" effect to EMP, because that's what an EMP does <.< I also don't like the raven idea, 20 seconds of no abilities is broken and ungodly good imo. The Raven was just an additional ramble on my part, I removed it. As for the Snipe, why do you think it is imbalanced? For the same energy cost, Ghosts currently have a 1 range advantage over HT and instantly kill it. Notice, I proposed +1 range to Feedback, which gives Protoss a 100% winrate in Feedback vs Snipe. EMP would be way too powerful with a Lockdown effect as it is AOE. Having it on Snipe makes more sense design wise, though the names are somewhat confusing, probably. Snipe doesn't insta-kill a HT right now, you need at least 2 queued Snipes, that's 100 energy to kill a HT. As for the Feedback vs Snipe thing, yes the range change is nice, but if your ghosts are below 100 energy Feedback can't kill them. Then they get healed up by medivacs and can at least still fight, compared to HTs without energy who can only help the Protoss anymore by becoming archons and buffering. Imo, EMP needs a redesign. It makes no sense for it to drain HTs Psionic energies. Rather, it should weaken shields and disable mechanical units in the target area for a short period of time. Then you can use Snipe as a counter for all biological spellcasters and EMPs against sentries and ravens (and the like), while giving the EMP the added utility of breaking TvT tank lines and being useful against many other Protoss units. To balance that, you can decrease the radius of the EMP or make it so only one mechanical unit will be disabled per EMP used so that you can't lock down an entire army with 2 EMPs. Maybe, to balance it out a bit, make it so that units with the "Massive" tag don't get completely disabled but only incapable of moving (huge tech units like carriers would have backups in case of an EMP, it would make total sense). Would also encourage spreading and toning down deathball play.
OMG I mixed energy/damage up. 50 energy for 20 damage is even more pathetic.
I think Snipe in imbalanced and the Ghost is poorly designed in it's current form because Snipe has EXACTLY ONE use in the entire game - To be used against a single HT when there's 2 or more Ghosts nearby. Nothing else. Ghost are non-existent in TvT and TvZ. I think that's stupid. Especially considering there's a severe lack of lategame transitions for Terran and P/Z are only getting stronger.
You don't get a 200m/100g/3 supply unit for it's DPS, Ghost attack is pretty fucking poor.
What you are proposing is changing Snipe into a more powerful version vs Psionic and changing EMP to lockdown radius. But that takes the use vs Protoss out pretty much.
Notice again, HT will ALWAYS win vs Ghost in this way. Maybe 50 energy is on the low hand and the new Snipe needs to be 75 energy. Maybe? Maybe not. Maybe experiment before shutting everything down because you are afraid of a single unit interaction becoming harder.
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