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Thanks to Reddit sleuths, everyone can try the LotV test maps by following instructions here. Note: This is not a beta key, it is simply access to Vs. AI and a Unit Tester. I have no idea how cool with this Blizzard is or is not, use at your own risk. |
On March 20 2015 02:33 Tenks wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 02:27 renkin wrote:
If I get the Adept right, wouldn't that mean you could mass adept, blindly a-move into the enemy blob and then teleport them to insta-flank ? I imagine their cost and flimsiness will mean this isn't really possible. I imagined them more like WoL reapers. Good for harass but pretty bad in straight engagements.
On March 20 2015 03:09 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 02:27 renkin wrote:
If I get the Adept right, wouldn't that mean you could mass adept, blindly a-move into the enemy blob and then teleport them to insta-flank ? Well the way I understood it is that the teleport shade thing only activates after 10 seconds, so I reckon a blind A-move without sending the shades out before the battle, and into the perfect position, gets all your adepts killed. At least against stimmed bio it would.
That sounds reasonable. Although I'm wondering what kind of future reading skills you'll need to precisely flank a stimmed bioball.
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On March 20 2015 03:29 renkin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 02:33 Tenks wrote:On March 20 2015 02:27 renkin wrote:
If I get the Adept right, wouldn't that mean you could mass adept, blindly a-move into the enemy blob and then teleport them to insta-flank ? I imagine their cost and flimsiness will mean this isn't really possible. I imagined them more like WoL reapers. Good for harass but pretty bad in straight engagements. Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 03:09 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2015 02:27 renkin wrote:
If I get the Adept right, wouldn't that mean you could mass adept, blindly a-move into the enemy blob and then teleport them to insta-flank ? Well the way I understood it is that the teleport shade thing only activates after 10 seconds, so I reckon a blind A-move without sending the shades out before the battle, and into the perfect position, gets all your adepts killed. At least against stimmed bio it would. That sounds reasonable. Although I'm wondering what kind of future reading skills you'll need to precisely flank a stimmed bioball.
I mean, flanking isn't the best against bio anyway, right? Bio just stims, turns and shoots. If mech was a thing against Protoss more than once a year (except for Goody), adepts would be awesome against sieged tanks.
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For the Adept once you send the shade out is teleporting to the shade mandatory? Or do you have the option of staying put?
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Adept is a shit unit and I, as protoss, disapprove of it. Every unit needs to have a counter. How do you counter something that can't be hit? Positioning? Yes, but can your focus be consumed with following adepts? I don't think this is the main goal in game. Better core unit please.
Edit: The unit also promotes luck. If you miss its crucial timing when it teleports or is still going somewhere before teleport, then gg. When will Blizzard realise protoss doesn't need more gimmicky units? We need stable, solid units. Oracle was another gimmick when it comes to harassment. Medivac? Now that stuff serves its purpose and is solid for harassment.
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On March 20 2015 03:45 darkness wrote:
Adept is a shit unit and I, as protoss, disapprove of it. Every unit needs to have a counter. How do you counter something that can't be hit? Positioning? Yes, but can your focus be consumed with following adepts? I don't think this is the main goal in game. Better core unit please.
I mean the hard counter to this unit is just to move you Units where this unit is Moving.
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On March 20 2015 03:52 DERASTAT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 03:45 darkness wrote:
Adept is a shit unit and I, as protoss, disapprove of it. Every unit needs to have a counter. How do you counter something that can't be hit? Positioning? Yes, but can your focus be consumed with following adepts? I don't think this is the main goal in game. Better core unit please. I mean the hard counter to this unit is just to move you Units where this unit is Moving.
A unit can change its direction many times. It's kind of like football. The real shit comes when you split those adepts to a few per enemy base. How are you going to tell they're going to 2nd base and main base? You can't until the last minute. Your focus has to be 100%. It's a shit unit, realise that.
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On March 20 2015 03:32 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 03:29 renkin wrote:On March 20 2015 02:33 Tenks wrote:On March 20 2015 02:27 renkin wrote:
If I get the Adept right, wouldn't that mean you could mass adept, blindly a-move into the enemy blob and then teleport them to insta-flank ? I imagine their cost and flimsiness will mean this isn't really possible. I imagined them more like WoL reapers. Good for harass but pretty bad in straight engagements. On March 20 2015 03:09 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2015 02:27 renkin wrote:
If I get the Adept right, wouldn't that mean you could mass adept, blindly a-move into the enemy blob and then teleport them to insta-flank ? Well the way I understood it is that the teleport shade thing only activates after 10 seconds, so I reckon a blind A-move without sending the shades out before the battle, and into the perfect position, gets all your adepts killed. At least against stimmed bio it would. That sounds reasonable. Although I'm wondering what kind of future reading skills you'll need to precisely flank a stimmed bioball. I mean, flanking isn't the best against bio anyway, right? Bio just stims, turns and shoots. If mech was a thing against Protoss more than once a year (except for Goody), adepts would be awesome against sieged tanks.
One cannot flank that which has no sides. Pretty sure Sun-Tzu said that.
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I'd prefer to see how the unit actually plays out before making broad statements about how it functions
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On March 20 2015 03:43 Tenks wrote:
For the Adept once you send the shade out is teleporting to the shade mandatory? Or do you have the option of staying put?
You can stay put. That's the way I understood it anyway, a mindgame unit.
But as Elentos said who cares if you have a stimmed bioball in front of you..
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On March 20 2015 03:54 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 03:52 DERASTAT wrote:On March 20 2015 03:45 darkness wrote:
Adept is a shit unit and I, as protoss, disapprove of it. Every unit needs to have a counter. How do you counter something that can't be hit? Positioning? Yes, but can your focus be consumed with following adepts? I don't think this is the main goal in game. Better core unit please. I mean the hard counter to this unit is just to move you Units where this unit is Moving. A unit can change its direction many times. It's kind of like football. The real shit comes when you split those adepts to a few per enemy base. How are you going to tell they're going to 2nd base and main base? You can't until the last minute. Your focus has to be 100%. It's a shit unit, realise that.
Make walls and it doesn't get into your base. Done.
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On March 20 2015 03:56 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 03:54 darkness wrote:On March 20 2015 03:52 DERASTAT wrote:On March 20 2015 03:45 darkness wrote:
Adept is a shit unit and I, as protoss, disapprove of it. Every unit needs to have a counter. How do you counter something that can't be hit? Positioning? Yes, but can your focus be consumed with following adepts? I don't think this is the main goal in game. Better core unit please. I mean the hard counter to this unit is just to move you Units where this unit is Moving. A unit can change its direction many times. It's kind of like football. The real shit comes when you split those adepts to a few per enemy base. How are you going to tell they're going to 2nd base and main base? You can't until the last minute. Your focus has to be 100%. It's a shit unit, realise that. Make walls and it doesn't get into your base. Done.
You realise this only works for terran and partially for protoss? What is zerg going to do?
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On March 20 2015 03:57 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 03:56 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2015 03:54 darkness wrote:On March 20 2015 03:52 DERASTAT wrote:On March 20 2015 03:45 darkness wrote:
Adept is a shit unit and I, as protoss, disapprove of it. Every unit needs to have a counter. How do you counter something that can't be hit? Positioning? Yes, but can your focus be consumed with following adepts? I don't think this is the main goal in game. Better core unit please. I mean the hard counter to this unit is just to move you Units where this unit is Moving. A unit can change its direction many times. It's kind of like football. The real shit comes when you split those adepts to a few per enemy base. How are you going to tell they're going to 2nd base and main base? You can't until the last minute. Your focus has to be 100%. It's a shit unit, realise that. Make walls and it doesn't get into your base. Done. You realise this only works for terran and partially for protoss? What is zerg going to do?
If the shades dont ignore unit collision, speedling surround. Ezpz. Even if they do, speedlings are pretty quick to react to that sort of distance.
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My Terran unit suggestions:
(1) Kill the Thor. 250 tons of the Thor go unused in combat. The only utility they were bringing in the field were high velocity fragmenting missiles.
(2) Add the Goliath. Thor high velocity fragmenting missiles (anti-light) have been adapted to the more mobile and much cheaper Goliath platform. Goliath remains distinct from Viking as Goliath is anti-light, Viking anti-armor.
(3) Kill the widow mine. It is crazy unreliable and adds an uncontrollable element to the game. Terrans can't actually aim these things even at the pro level. But when it connects, it ruins the game (kill Oracle, 4 mine slam on mutas, giant Friendly fire on marines to kill 6 lings).
(4) Replace Seeker Missile on Raven with "Place Widow Mine". For a large chunk of energy, the Raven can place a one use Widow mine that times out.
(5) Kill the Helbat. It is only used for gimmics and has been nerfed into irrelevance as a main unit. Yes Innovation has a timing with it in TvZ, but it only works if Zergs elect to skip queens.
(6) Add "Flame slick" to the hellion. For an upgrade, the hellion can lay down a trail of burning gas in its wake, igniting units that walk over it and also burning units that stay in it. Hellions are immune to the ignite, but still take the "stay in it" damage. This gives hellions space control and keeps them relevant later in the game.
(7) Kill the battlecruiser. It has had zero place in competitive play for 4 years. It is not about to start having one because you add a gimmic teleport that does nothing to address its inability to actually defeat any comps.
(8) Add in a new unit: "Assault Frigate". The "Assault Frigate" is like the battlecruiser, but 300 health, 4 supply, and significantly faster. Armed with Valkyrie-like scattering AA weapons and BC-like rapid fire short range anti ground lasers.
(9) Add in a new unit: "New Battlecruiser". "New Battlecruiser" is a limit 1 unit just like the mothership. It is like a Battlecruiser, but longer range and better stats and significantly higher cost.
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On March 20 2015 03:57 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 03:56 Elentos wrote:On March 20 2015 03:54 darkness wrote:On March 20 2015 03:52 DERASTAT wrote:On March 20 2015 03:45 darkness wrote:
Adept is a shit unit and I, as protoss, disapprove of it. Every unit needs to have a counter. How do you counter something that can't be hit? Positioning? Yes, but can your focus be consumed with following adepts? I don't think this is the main goal in game. Better core unit please. I mean the hard counter to this unit is just to move you Units where this unit is Moving. A unit can change its direction many times. It's kind of like football. The real shit comes when you split those adepts to a few per enemy base. How are you going to tell they're going to 2nd base and main base? You can't until the last minute. Your focus has to be 100%. It's a shit unit, realise that. Make walls and it doesn't get into your base. Done. You realise this only works for terran and partially for protoss? What is zerg going to do?
Problematic yes, if the Zerg notices they can also close a wall at their natural with a queen, have units go to other bases. Then the adept shouldn't get anything except maybe some scouting info, and if it dies that probably wasn't worth it. And unless the shade outruns speedlings I think Zerg should be fine in general. For the adept, I'm more interested to see how it does in an actual battle, the gimmick is just a nice secondary thing.
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Last time we saw ravarger it sucked. The attack was never on target. On other side cyclone was imba there was no zerg unit that could take down cyclones. I think the same will happen with the adept. Terran and protoss have to many harass units while zerg has none
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On March 20 2015 04:04 TheAnarchy wrote:
Last time we saw ravarger it sucked. The attack was never on target. On other side cyclone was imba there was no zerg unit that could take down cyclones. I think the same will happen with the adept. Terran and protoss have to many harass units while zerg has none
I don't think the Ravager is meant to kill anything tbh. I see it more as a unit which is designed to zone out armies and force favorable engagements (basically when you see that you're going to get sandwiched by your opponent's army, you do a barrage shot with Ravagers to prevent one side of the sandwich. Kinda like a Zerg forcefield, spiritually).
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On March 20 2015 04:04 TheAnarchy wrote:
Last time we saw ravarger it sucked. The attack was never on target. On other side cyclone was imba there was no zerg unit that could take down cyclones. I think the same will happen with the adept. Terran and protoss have to many harass units while zerg has none
The ravager is amazing, it doesn't do much worse in a regular fight than a roach (at least in the fan alpha) and its attack has a lot of utility: it hits air targets, it will influence where the opponent moves, it can kill static defense and break forcefields. Honestly, I think it's more likely that it's going to be completely overpowered against Protoss at first.
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On March 20 2015 04:08 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 04:04 TheAnarchy wrote:
Last time we saw ravarger it sucked. The attack was never on target. On other side cyclone was imba there was no zerg unit that could take down cyclones. I think the same will happen with the adept. Terran and protoss have to many harass units while zerg has none The ravager is amazing, it doesn't do much worse in a regular fight than a roach (at least in the fan alpha) and its attack has a lot of utility: it hits air targets, it will influence where the opponent moves, it can kill static defense and break forcefields. Honestly, I think it's more likely that it's going to be completely overpowered against Protoss at first.
I have no idea what they are going to do with the Cyclone. I am putting it down here: they kill the Cyclone. Factory already has like 6 or 7 units. The Cyclone will either be mad over powered, or require such clicking as to preclude it being useful sub masters level. The nerfs they will have to apply to the unit will eventually break it to the point to the point of having no utility. How do you ever balance something that does such weird scaling damage? Did they not learn from the Void Ray?
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On March 20 2015 04:08 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2015 04:04 TheAnarchy wrote:
Last time we saw ravarger it sucked. The attack was never on target. On other side cyclone was imba there was no zerg unit that could take down cyclones. I think the same will happen with the adept. Terran and protoss have to many harass units while zerg has none The ravager is amazing, it doesn't do much worse in a regular fight than a roach (at least in the fan alpha) and its attack has a lot of utility: it hits air targets, it will influence where the opponent moves, it can kill static defense and break forcefields. Honestly, I think it's more likely that it's going to be completely overpowered against Protoss at first.
It sucked against air units because it hits to slow. I think it will work against forcefields. But it is necesary a unit to deal with forcefields? I think zvp is already balanced. On the other hand protoss gets two more usefull units the adept and the disruptor. Also they get more harass with the warp prism and have stasis ward.
I think the new meta in zerg will necessarily be air units
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feels like oracle is gonna be OP as fuck haha
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EPT
