I personally think that jungle should be a support type of role with little carry potential. Its the main reason why so many games snowball in one direction without any chance for comebacks. Its the only asymmetrical role where its not clear what the direct enemy does, hard to track it while carrying so much agenda and power in every decision. If not this then at least the ganks should be reworked in a way to be very hard to execute properly and end with a kill. A regular gank should not be easier than a master yi ganking a garen lane. Overall the role should not have so much agenda over the other lanes while being asymmetrical (both junglers can never do the same thing and definitely not with the same success) and so hard to track or be controlled by the other jungler, not to mention how the lanes cannot fight back and pressure the junglers in a similar fashion

p.s. and to answer the previous posts about why riot tries to stick darius, zed etc in the jungle and why my thoughts about the role (right or wrong) are completely irrelevant. Riot is not trying to make the game competitive and balanced, this is neither broodwar, nor warcraft 3 nor even dota, Riot's primary goal is to make the game as attractive as possible to as many kids as possible so they can play more games in every possible role and feel good while doing it. Thus popular for the masses champions put in an unpopular role (its a role that requires learning and understanding, not just good micro and flashy plays) looks like a fair way to get to this primary goal imo

Dandel Ion

Austria17960 Posts

April 06 2021 23:51 GMT

#22

I don't really see a viable way to make it a more supportish role while also making ganks harder (enough) to execute.

If you normalize clear speeds and health (this part is easily done by giving most camps the krug treatment and nerfing their damage) champions with insane CC are going to dominate. Junglers are now basically supports, sure, but they gank better than ever.

If you want actual master yi's, you'll always have carry (or off-carry, w/e semantics) junglers because to make playing champions without much in the way of CC worth it at all, farming has to do something for you.

imo the only way to 'solve' the issues junglers come with is to literally delete the jungle and have people play two lane supports, which probably creates a lot more other issues overall.

inb4 the solution is destructible rocks and blizzard was just lightyears ahead of everyone.

cLutZ

United States19573 Posts

April 07 2021 21:00 GMT

#23

Ganks certainly are too strong. Part of that, IMO, is that burst damage has gotten much higher I think. There should be like no point in ganking a Maokai because you just shouldn't be able to kill a Maokai with 2 people before he waddles back to the tower (towers should be buffed in damage too by the way, dives are way too easy).

Fildun

Netherlands4122 Posts

April 10 2021 22:31 GMT

#24

Getting kinda sick of every queue taking 20 minutes when i just wanna play some league, but I guess dodging is pretty attractive with the current system.

starkiller123

United States4029 Posts

April 13 2021 21:21 GMT

#25

wow actually nerfing ARAM Akali, incredible

Sent.

Poland9132 Posts

April 13 2021 21:29 GMT

#26

Is Viego not getting any bugfixes or changes in 11.8 a sign that Riot gave up on him or that they believe he's fine already?

On a sidenote, I'm surprised by how much I hate Viego's everything. In total, Seraphine is a lot more wrong than Viego, but when you're playing a game against a Viego, he's the one who invokes more negative impressions. His taunts or the way he holds his sword make me eyeroll.

To be clear, I'm not talking about balance here. His passive is certainly frustrating to deal with, but I don't think he's overloaded or overpowered. I'm only trying to say that the champ is very unlikeable in game, and that it's mind-boggling that Riot decided to build a longer story around something like him. Is there anyone who likes that guy? Even as a villain?

On April 14 2021 06:21 starkiller123 wrote:
wow actually nerfing ARAM Akali, incredible

Akali +20% damage dealt, -20% damage taken ⇒⇒⇒ +5% damage dealt, -5% damage taken

I know they don't do that but I wish I could have their justifications for these Akali changes. Firstly for giving her +20/-20% in the past and secondly for reducing both of those values by 15% in a single patch.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

April 14 2021 05:43 GMT

#27

On April 14 2021 06:29 Sent. wrote:
Is Viego not getting any bugfixes or changes in 11.8 a sign that Riot gave up on him or that they believe he's fine already?

On a sidenote, I'm surprised by how much I hate Viego's everything. In total, Seraphine is a lot more wrong than Viego, but when you're playing a game against a Viego, he's the one who invokes more negative impressions. His taunts or the way he holds his sword make me eyeroll.

To be clear, I'm not talking about balance here. His passive is certainly frustrating to deal with, but I don't think he's overloaded or overpowered. I'm only trying to say that the champ is very unlikeable in game, and that it's mind-boggling that Riot decided to build a longer story around something like him. Is there anyone who likes that guy? Even as a villain?

Show nested quote +

Yeah the ARAM thing is like taking a sledgehammer to the problem. I don't really think the riot balance team really understands the ramifications of doing both an ehp and damage buff/nerf at the same time when combined with champs that heavily rely on vamp. With Riftmaker, at 20/20 buff gave her effectively +50% omnivamp effectiveness. The survivability chart is asymptotic on champs with regeneration mechanics, so at some point she is just impossible to kill, and it seems like 20/20 was just about there. I fully expect her winrate to crater though, because that's a massive nerf.

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

April 14 2021 07:43 GMT

#28

How I would balance ARAM:

- Remove damage taken changes, only buff/nerf damage done. This would solve the stacking balance problem. Buffing Akali by 20% might balance her winrate across a large set of games, but totally skews balance in individual matchups (Teemo doing 0.8*0.85 0 = 68% of his normal damage is not OK).
- Remove Moonstone, it completely dictates the meta right now. The downsides of buying it in SR do not exist in ARAM, and it can be bought by multiple champs. This would nerf enchanter supports and ADC too.
- Return the vision item, the only reason Teemo doesn't have a 95% winrate is because half the player base does not understand that all you need to do is place shrooms in the minion path and kill creeps, thus preventing your opponent from ever reaching the tower. I have experienced many games where Teemo's team was losing every single fight, but because they focused the vision creep, we could not walk outside our own turret range. It's like being stuck in the Truman Show, everything on repeat until they manage to slowpush the inhibitor tower. Bonus points if they have a Shaco.
- Alternatively, either give us a vision trinket with a moderately high cooldown, or can only be used to clear 1 or 2 traps, or give us ARAM specific vision items, they can be slot ineffective for the benefit of giving vision.