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Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
Patch 10.12: Live on June. 10. 2020
Team Fight Tactics Patch 10.12 Live on June. 10, 2020
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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I just thought about it... does the Tribunal even exist anymore? Should that be removed from the thread opener? 
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Tribunal was the funniest tool ever, I can't tell you how many hilarious chat logs I read. I'll go look for my favorite one, Mundo's Shoes Shop, but the old subreddit has some gems. The forum posts have disappeared I think, so the very best memes are long gone.
Please keep the thread opener, maybe someone will ask about it.
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Speaking of, did people see the Hai chat ban? Incredible. But it also explains some of my chat bans a while back. There is nothing that pisses me off more than a guy who trolls champ select cus he didn't get the role he wanted then AFKs. Apparently Riot thinks "reported" is a slur of some sort.
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One of my old roommates calls our team trash/garbage/etc when they're trolling and yet is honor level 5, the worst I've ever done is ask what my teammates expected to happen when they do X and I've gotten chat restricted 3 or 4 times. The reporting/honor system is broken and doesn't actually accomplish the mission Riot set out for it. What's the point of even talking in a game if someone can troll you and YOU get punished for calling them out? Also it takes 100 years to get honor levels
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It's social over-engineering all over again, and arbitrary standards. It reminds me of the fiasco a few years ago where the Rioter responsible for player behavior had all sorts of wonderful stats and interpretations of toxicity in the game, and was fired for being toxic himself. Can't remember his name...The ban system is in need of a rethink. I actually liked the Tribunal, it gave you a glimpse of what constitutes being toxic from an outsider's view, so you could (hopefully) bring it into your own games. I would also be surprised if it had more false positives than the bot system.
PB report system is finally coming out, and people have been asking for it for almost 10 years. There are so many ways to subvert the automated system, super toxic people only get caught if they don't care. But it also punishes for fairly tame bad words: imo I couldn't care less if some edgy kid thinks he's cool because he spouts racial slurs, I just mute him and report after game. But the Jax who flames our team and starts split push inting because he got ganked at level 3 and decides he wants to sabotage a game where everyone else is winning hard? That's 30 minutes where 4 people are having their game ruined, and he ofc doesn't get punished.
One of my old roommates calls our team trash/garbage/etc when they're trolling and yet is honor level 5
You can get honor 5 simply by never typing, except for once every 10 games where you can flame as hard as you like (without using the banned words). You get honor for playing good, and punished for being toxic, and those things are not opposite traits.
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I definitely disagree, I switched to jungle a few weeks ago and lost count at 23 of my first 25 games MVP or ACE from op.gg, yet I have yet to get the most honors on my team. So playing well is definitely not enough to get honors.
But I do agree that its super easy to bypass the automated system, I played with an Udyr named "the n words are bad" (or some other adjective but you get the idea) but used some numbers instead of letters and just ran around being super toxic. It was ranked so he obviously had played this account past level 30 lmao
Also is there some form of lower priority queue, either known or rumored? Since I got chat restricted the number of trolls in my games have shot up dramatically or is this season just extra troll?
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On June 11 2020 15:21 cLutZ wrote:
Speaking of, did people see the Hai chat ban? Incredible. But it also explains some of my chat bans a while back. There is nothing that pisses me off more than a guy who trolls champ select cus he didn't get the role he wanted then AFKs. Apparently Riot thinks "reported" is a slur of some sort.
I think it's based on people announcing/asking for reports for stupid reasons so often that Riot decided to add the word to the list of automatically actioned words. The logic would be A (player asks for a report) + B (that player is reported therefore he might be doing something wrong) = C (that player likely asked for a false report).
I never got chat restricted and I announce my reports quite often, so if I had to jump to conclusions I'd either say that Hai types way too much and his teammates find him annoying, or that he keeps playing against the same shitty people who keep reporting him out of spite. Could be both too.
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Also is there some form of lower priority queue, either known or rumored?
I think there is, when I was temp banned (first time in over 5 years, just from one single game for using bad words), it did feel like I was being placed with generally toxic people. Very fun considering I went from Honor 5 to 'toxic player' in one game... And I've never been chat restricted either, which I would've considered a fair punishment for what I said, temp ban was a shocker.
I think it's based on people announcing/asking for reports for stupid reasons so often that Riot decided to add the word to the list of automatically actioned words.
I don't think 'reported' is a trigger word, I've used it loads of times. Maybe if you type it and people report you, it triggers?
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That's what I meant. Similarly I think you can use the n word and be safe as long as nobody reports you. Obviously the system gives the n word a bigger weight (fewer reported violations needed to trigger a penalty), but the mechanism is the same. If there is no report, there will be no action.
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On June 11 2020 22:25 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I definitely disagree, I switched to jungle a few weeks ago and lost count at 23 of my first 25 games MVP or ACE from op.gg, yet I have yet to get the most honors on my team. So playing well is definitely not enough to get honors.
Just play Soraka or Janna for around a week or so. Broken soloQ supports and ez honor 5. :^)
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On June 12 2020 03:17 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2020 22:25 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I definitely disagree, I switched to jungle a few weeks ago and lost count at 23 of my first 25 games MVP or ACE from op.gg, yet I have yet to get the most honors on my team. So playing well is definitely not enough to get honors. Just play Soraka or Janna for around a week or so. Broken soloQ supports and ez honor 5. :^)
At the rate I'm being trolled I'd literally be in bronze lmao, but before I switched from Support to jungle I did have a mean Raka win rate
On June 12 2020 02:14 DarkCore wrote:I think there is, when I was temp banned (first time in over 5 years, just from one single game for using bad words), it did feel like I was being placed with generally toxic people. Very fun considering I went from Honor 5 to 'toxic player' in one game... And I've never been chat restricted either, which I would've considered a fair punishment for what I said, temp ban was a shocker. Show nested quote +I think it's based on people announcing/asking for reports for stupid reasons so often that Riot decided to add the word to the list of automatically actioned words. I don't think 'reported' is a trigger word, I've used it loads of times. Maybe if you type it and people report you, it triggers?
Same, I went from Honor 5 to literally being trolled in 8 of 10 games, sometimes worse.
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I literally only ever honor good support players, if our support player was bad I hit the arrow
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My biggest issue with Riot is their inconsistency (or should I say hypocrisy) in doing things. Like in the Hai case, if saying "reported" and whatever else mild he said is considered a punishable offense, so be it, these are the limits Riot sets, so everyone who mention these in chat should be banned, but they are not. No one is and then some are and then in this sever in this elo someone else is, but his teammate who said absolutely the same things in the same game is not and so and so on. Everything Riot does is on the fly, punishments, bans, tool-tips, updates, bug fixes, everything vary based on server, elo, region, sunny day, rainy day and they are not even really strictly based on these criteria, its like however they feel like for whatever its on their mind now. Not to mention how many things they "officially" promise with posts, replies, videos etc. and then they dont even announce that they gave up (lied or whatever). Its like nothing happened, we just write stuff here and there, it will happen in 5 years, maybe 10 or not. Corrupted politicians have more decency in following up on their promises.
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The Hai case is exactly what we've come to expect from Riot, i.e. lots of double standards and arbitrary treatment. At the end of the day, there are no laws that govern how they deal with major community personalities, that's why we have so many toxic big streamers who do unranked to Challenger marathons while flaming scrubs go unpunished, and Hai gets put under review. Riot looks at profit first.
It does sometimes feel like Riot is pretty disorganized in the background. Most of those 'broken promises' were made years ago when the company was arguably smaller and more inexperienced, but well, a lot of those promises are features that this game desperately needs even now...
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I think the Hai situation is probably something closer to sent’s speculation in that he’s actually just mad annoying and so he probably gets reported like by at least one teammate per game. So when the bot looks at his account it’s seeing a pattern of “bad behavior “.
Now that he was able to get suspended from LPP, either there’s a second game we aren’t seeing or Riot doesn’t even have manual oversight of their streamer outreach program with <100 members? Seems mega troll, but at the same time LPP already felt mismanaged as fuck.
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Speaking of that LPP drama, mad respect to Tyler1 for straight up telling Riot to either remove him too or stop fucking with Hai.
They took option A
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He doesn't need LPP, and Riot loses a chance to showcase skins. It's honestly a lose for them.
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Would explain why they dropped their promise to rework ap bruiser items some time ago. They're going to rework everything instead. Well, almost everything, they said they want to retain 34% of the items in their current form.
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Changing so many items will have a very big effect on game balance, wonder how it will pan out.
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Did they just say their item system is difficult to understand? Oh boy, they're out of touch if they think so. Or I'm vastly overestimating the average intelligence of the people playing the game. The item system always felt like one of the easiest aspects of the game to understand. Certain champion interactions are more difficult to grasp than the entire item shop.
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On June 13 2020 17:59 Uldridge wrote:
Did they just say their item system is difficult to understand? Oh boy, they're out of touch if they think so. Or I'm vastly overestimating the average intelligence of the people playing the game. The item system always felt like one of the easiest aspects of the game to understand. Certain champion interactions are more difficult to grasp than the entire item shop.
I will say, as an outside observer who has played like 2 games ever but follows the proscene, the items feel more complicated than say DotA and the way items are discussed it seems like most champions have what is essentially an obviously optimal base item build. That is very different to items that function like "okay I'm an ADC, what attack damage item fits my playstyle?" and I imagine is somewhat offputting to new players.
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On June 13 2020 17:59 Uldridge wrote:
Did they just say their item system is difficult to understand? Oh boy, they're out of touch if they think so. Or I'm vastly overestimating the average intelligence of the people playing the game. The item system always felt like one of the easiest aspects of the game to understand. Certain champion interactions are more difficult to grasp than the entire item shop.
I think it's because you're looking at it from the perspective of someone with experience. For instance my brother and nephew both with no MOBA experience just recently started playing League and the item (and rune) system is what they are/were the most confused about.
They enjoy discovering or seeing new champion interactions and combos. Basically learning how to actually play the game is fun, learning to read what's essentially a spreadsheet is not.
Should be noted both have a ton of high Elo Overwatch so it's natural for them champions function completely different have unique patterns and playstyles. A pretty fun note is my nephew a dirty Tracer main loves playing support especially Lulu or jungle Ivern, he feels like it need more snap reactive creative play (like Tracer) than the other roles, while my Brother a tank main only play dive champions. Hardly surprised by my brother but I'm baffled by my nephew not being a Lee Sin main: he even bought him and learned a ton of the combos so fast it's stupid.
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Masteries are definitely difficult to understand, I needed over half a season to really have a grasp of all the different pages, simply because I wasn't playing with them. But the item shop always felt fairly straight forward, maybe because I've been playing so long?
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I assume that what they're talking about isn't the shop interface but the differences in items themselves. For example, unironically, Morellos vs Liandries or Thornmail vs Frozen Heart vs Randuins. I know I still spend time in my games debating whether or not the enemy adc has enough crit to justify randuins over thornmail's grevious wounds or frozen heart's attack speed debuff, these things are all often game specific and really really nuanced
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I don't know. For me, since I've had some RPG experience before I started League it felt really intuitive. The most fun part about champions and items and masteries/runes is finding something with really wonky synergy that an enemy team doesn't know how to handle and hasnt really hit mainstream yet (zz rot, banner Yorick for example lol, that shit was hilarious)
On June 14 2020 02:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I assume that what they're talking about isn't the shop interface but the differences in items themselves. For example, unironically, Morellos vs Liandries or Thornmail vs Frozen Heart vs Randuins. I know I still spend time in my games debating whether or not the enemy adc has enough crit to justify randuins over thornmail's grevious wounds or frozen heart's attack speed debuff, these things are all often game specific and really really nuanced
Yeah I get that, but it's mostly a gut feeling right? If you see a lot of life steal on the adc + on the enemy team (or the adc is super fed and lifestealing) you go thornmail, otherwise I go Randuin's. I almost never take FH because of the zero hp on it, and my gut might be very wrong here (400 or 500? mana and 20% cdr is a big deal).
There's probably strong cut offs with math to back up which situations require which items, but I'd be interested to see if I'd buy the actual correct item more often than not or if I'm just a total moron in itemization.
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That's the issue, its a gut feeling for US, but that's after 100s of games. I can't begin to describe to you the amount of games where people see Mundo/Yuumi/Vlad etc and I'm the only one building grevious wounds as an example. The average person is either an idiot, or doesn't have the time to actually build up a gut feeling or both
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On June 14 2020 02:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I assume that what they're talking about isn't the shop interface but the differences in items themselves. For example, unironically, Morellos vs Liandries or Thornmail vs Frozen Heart vs Randuins. I know I still spend time in my games debating whether or not the enemy adc has enough crit to justify randuins over thornmail's grevious wounds or frozen heart's attack speed debuff, these things are all often game specific and really really nuanced
I rarely felt that in LoL in the last couple years I played, and right now in pro play it looks like people are set in item builds from the second team comps are locked in, rarely deviating either items built or even their order, no matter what happens in the game.
On the contrary I've felt like that happens a lot more in the DotA tournaments I watch, when a carry is behind and needs to make an impact now over going for the powerful but still far away big item.
Even something as simple as finishing a mid-tier item right before a baron siege to get the power spike, as opposed to just buying the basic component needed for the big item you're currently buying, is something we almost never see.
And since the champs played in pro play (and, bigger than that, the patterns they follow as groups of champions) have so little diversity, knowing that no more will come from the item choice or ability leveling order in the games themselves participates to making them even blander.
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That's because pro players are beyond stubborn, hence why the Liandries vs Morellos conversation has become such a meme. Either way pro players make up what 0.001% of the league player base? Items have to be intuitive for the average player, who is in mid silver or gold if I remember correctly.
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people are set in item builds from the second team comps are locked in
This is very true: People ping champs in the first 2 min of the game and say stuff like 'build heal reduction, they have Vlad and Soraka', or 'they are AD heavy, build armor'. It is unlikely that building those items is wrong. And a lot of roles have fairly strict item choices, like AD carries never build BT to win lane (except Draven, and he's trended away from BT first item) at the cost of poor mid game scaling.
something as simple as finishing a mid-tier item right before a baron siege to get the power spike
That's because Riot removed mid tier items which don't build further, like Wriggle's lantern and Brutalizer. These items were incredibly gold efficient but not slot efficient. Now everything builds into a T3 item, and T2 items are less efficient than them.
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Item reworks are way low on my list unless jungle items and wholesale remake of dragon is included. Jungle is still the games biggest problem.
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On June 14 2020 17:50 DarkCore wrote:
That's because Riot removed mid tier items which don't build further, like Wriggle's lantern and Brutalizer. These items were incredibly gold efficient but not slot efficient. Now everything builds into a T3 item, and T2 items are less efficient than them.
Not even that, I meant something as simple as finishing Zeal over buying the Pickaxe because you already have BFS for your IE/BT/whatever, for example.
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On June 12 2020 03:17 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2020 22:25 chipmonklord17 wrote:
I definitely disagree, I switched to jungle a few weeks ago and lost count at 23 of my first 25 games MVP or ACE from op.gg, yet I have yet to get the most honors on my team. So playing well is definitely not enough to get honors. Just play Soraka or Janna for around a week or so. Broken soloQ supports and ez honor 5. :^)
Just a fun update related to this, I just went 8/0/33 on Yuumi, said literally nothing all game, and got 1 honor lmao
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I don't understand why Riot thinks items are complicated. Then again, out of the old runes and masteries system they decided to axe runes and keep the convoluted random abilities and effects of masteries.
Imagine how much easier the game would be if Riot wasn't constantly having to deal with rotating strengths of Keystones and kits. Like how much of a hassle has trying to balance just Ezreal with Keystones been?
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Ezreal is inherently a problematic champion (just like Lee Sin) because of his mobility. And his long ass poke is actually insane. He's both incredibly safe and has high playmaking ability, which shouldn't ever happen honestly.
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Well and the onhit / auto attack component of his Q fucks with everything too. But that wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't items and Keystones that it broke and was just items. Adds just so many levers. But even stuff like Vlad / Swain, Jax, Kindred, etc... Riot spends so much time balancing Champions around busted Keystones, then nerfing Keystones and then having to rebuff Champions etc.
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This is a bit of a topic change but I really dislike the way Senna warps champion select and I honestly wish it was considered bad etiquette to pick her as support. It wouldn’t be so bad if she wasn’t extremely strong when you are que’d duo, but if we are picking Senna I want to be the Senna player. But at the same time I don’t want that shit in my lane at all if both players are picking ranged so it gets really awkward for me every time she is hovered.
I normally just bit the bullet and pick Maokai w/o complaining but with the exception of like 1in10 I think the adc player would play out the lane better . Anyone else have a way they deal with this or ideas?
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Just pick an ADC like you would normal? Senna functions just fine as a support, plenty of "acceptable" supports offer way less utility.
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On June 16 2020 03:52 iCanada wrote:
Well and the onhit / auto attack component of his Q fucks with everything too. But that wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't items and Keystones that it broke and was just items. Adds just so many levers. But even stuff like Vlad / Swain, Jax, Kindred, etc... Riot spends so much time balancing Champions around busted Keystones, then nerfing Keystones and then having to rebuff Champions etc.
Yeah that's the nature of Riot's systems team which I think has gotten worse. Conqueror in particular is just not healthy for the game. Press the attack for example is just overshadowed by conq in every way, because they both let you do more damage, except one also heals you and is easier to proc at the same time, and doesn't need to be restacked in teamfights. Off the top of my head, only renekton and quinn really even use the rune, and for renekton it's generally only better than conq in ranged matchups where you can't initiate with some stacks built up, and also might not get conq stacked for attacks.
Good keystones should enable playstyles. Things like hail of blades(bard, reksai) or aftershock lissandra for example.
IMO they need to put more into the flat stats(and more variety) in the runes, rather than the masteries themselves. Leave the masteries for playstyle affecting stuff rather than simply a statstick.
Lifesteal, spellvamp should be runed stats, where picking it trades early game power for mid-lategame utility for example. Don't put these in a tree where there isn't a meaningful choice.
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I think (cc) tanks perhaps have a good niche for press the attack since they can reliably stick to champ and proc it. Thing is that grasp and aftershock are so good (individually and in tf) that it's not worth it. Perhaps on Sion?
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PtA is still good, but it's become more niche on melee champions. Renekton might run it if he wants to win 1vs1 early for example, it's a super strong mastery combined with BotRK proccing off his W 2-3 times. I don't like how Conqueror has become the preferred rune for ADC either, it's too easy to proc and it synergizes too well with most kits.
Most of the good masteries like spammabble kits. I guess it's more correct to say that a lot of champs with spammy kits can make much better use of certain masteries, but the masteries are what create the problems in the first place, so...
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On June 16 2020 22:05 Uldridge wrote:
I think (cc) tanks perhaps have a good niche for press the attack since they can reliably stick to champ and proc it. Thing is that grasp and aftershock are so good (individually and in tf) that it's not worth it. Perhaps on Sion?
Nah. Watch a bunch of teamfights and count the number of autoattacks melee champions get off. Its super low, and most of them are usually after the teamfight was already decided and it is in the cleanup phase.
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On June 16 2020 22:09 DarkCore wrote:
I don't like how Conqueror has become the preferred rune for ADC either, it's too easy to proc and it synergizes too well with most kits
Adc is probably the most diverse role in terms of keystone with conq(ez), hob(Kaisa,Draven ), pta(Vayne), comet(Varus), grasp(Senna) and tempo(Ashe,xayah) all being the best depending.
Edit: forgot Jhin players have been moving to fleet
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I could see maybe some weird niche of top lane tanks that could use glacial augment just to stick onto players better, but idk why you would when the tank masteries are just better
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On June 17 2020 01:53 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2020 22:09 DarkCore wrote:
I don't like how Conqueror has become the preferred rune for ADC either, it's too easy to proc and it synergizes too well with most kits Adc is probably the most diverse role in terms of keystone ...
You serious ? Mages can go Aery, Phase, Comet, Electro, Dark, Conq, Aftershock, Fleet, Glacial, Spellbook and I am not sure I did not miss one or two. And although some of these runes are applicable to just some mages, most of the mages can go with each of these runes without fucking up or actually losing power. My advice will be, everytime you wanna use words like best, most, superior, op etc. for a class of champions, first check with the mages xD
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Fair enough I guess, i highlighted my my argument poorly which is simply that conq being too generally good hasn’t negatively effected the adc role (yet)
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Idk, I think being able to run Conquerer is a big advantage some ADC have over the rest: Ezreal and Aphelios can make use of it in small trades, meanwhile everyone else needs to either proc Lethality beforehand or get a longer trade with PtA. And once Conquerer fullys stacks, it is just as good as the other two masteries. Especially because Lethality only becomes effective if you're able to AA the entire time you proc it, and PtA requires focusing one target, they are both less flexible.
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Took me a while to realize you meant lethal tempo
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Well if you think about pta the 2 adcs that take it get all of their early damage from abilities that require you to pick a target, so it’s just an emphasis on a strengths rather than filling a weakness. Similarly Ashe and Xayah can pre proc tempo with a poke.
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PtA is in a pretty decent spot I think, it has a nice niche. It's a nice rune on early game junglers that can proc it nicely like Voli, WW, and Trundle; strong early and gives a more multiplier to scale your carries damage when you start to fall off.
It's definitely a bit outclassed as a keystone for carries though.
I'd definitely prefer to get rid of the whole masteries thing entirely, just give raw stats like old runes to help you gear for hard matchups or jungle clear. But that's just me, I guess Keystones and masteries provide an interesting twist to the game that wouldn't exist otherwise which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I just think they make true balance a fucking nightmare because of how some kits just inherently hard scale with the extra effects. Adds what I would call an unnecessary burden of knowledge to an already fairly complex game.
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I hard agree with Removal
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the biggest benefit to masteries is not having to fucking buy runes with a new account when you already gotta buy champs.
i mean having to buy champs already is fking dumb but buying runes on top was super stupid.
i dunno maybe im too privileged coming from dota
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I\'ve said it before and I'll say it again. They should have removed the masteries, kept the old rune system (maybe with some QoL changes) but with all runes free and available to everyone. So, people can have some liberty to do some cheese rune pages such as all ad runes on the cost of having a lot of secondary runes or just do regular AP, Tank, Ad pages or extra MR vs Syndra etc., but at the end its only raw stats that are not too little to not be felt at all and not too much to cause abominations like Katarina with conqueror or Lissandra with Aftershock, Veigar with Glacial and so on.
However, all of this will only make sense in a game where the competitive integrity is a primary goal. League's primary objectives are gimmicks, band aids and new shiny stuff to appeal for the masses and for the nowadays kids born in a world where things like competitiveness, trying to be the best, failures and the strive to overcome them are considered something bad and toxic. However, league is the most played game in the world, not dota so I guess it makes sense from the right point of view angle
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On June 18 2020 15:59 M2 wrote:
However, all of this will only make sense in a game where the competitive integrity is a primary goal. League's primary objectives are gimmicks, band aids and new shiny stuff to appeal for the masses and for the nowadays kids born in a world where things like competitiveness, trying to be the best, failures and the strive to overcome them are considered something bad and toxic. However, league is the most played game in the world, not dota so I guess it makes sense from the right point of view angle
I don't think DotA is a great example of competitive integrity over "flavour of the month" shinies to keep interest up. Every time I log on (like, once every month or two) there is some new bullshit gimmick (admittedly mostly cosmetic, but many of these are outright distracting and some look like abilities going off), and recently they added randomly dropping items in the jungle. I can't speak to how much random items have affected professional play, but it sits real badly with me to have that in a supposedly competitive game.
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On June 18 2020 16:20 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2020 15:59 M2 wrote:
However, all of this will only make sense in a game where the competitive integrity is a primary goal. League's primary objectives are gimmicks, band aids and new shiny stuff to appeal for the masses and for the nowadays kids born in a world where things like competitiveness, trying to be the best, failures and the strive to overcome them are considered something bad and toxic. However, league is the most played game in the world, not dota so I guess it makes sense from the right point of view angle I don't think DotA is a great example of competitive integrity over "flavour of the month" shinies to keep interest up. Every time I log on (like, once every month or two) there is some new bullshit gimmick (admittedly mostly cosmetic, but many of these are outright distracting and some look like abilities going off), and recently they added randomly dropping items in the jungle. I can't speak to how much random items have affected professional play, but it sits real badly with me to have that in a supposedly competitive game.
Well, truth is I haven't touched dota for a few years, so I was talking about the dota I knew from the past. I guess they are trying to get on the gimmicks train as well. Its where the money are
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yeah i also havent touched dota for a long time but i can say with absolute certainty that dota until at least 2016 was hands down THE moba esport. competitve integrity is what made dota
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Old runes were definitely designed to make you spend money so it’s unfortunate they will be forever linked to that, because they added fun nuance to customization that was both lesss game breaking than keystones while also having more match up variance than keystones.
With regards to random items in dots google team nigma + repair kit lol
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Riots shift from raw stats on runes/masteries to baking more and more power into them have led us to stupid shit like tank Ekko/Viktor/Fizz, drain-tank Katarina, Aftershock Lissandra. The only keystone I likeOmnistone and it's literally only for the dank situations it can allow.
I'd honestly love to see runes be completely cut, it'd open so much design space for items and champions. While Riots balance team have their blunders their design team have some pretty brilliant and creative workers.
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I would be up for removal of masteries and the return of runes that just give raw stats. Runes are boring but masteries are a big reason why random champions suddenly rise or drop in power, you can't buff a mastery for one group of champs and expect other ones to not use it. I mean, Senna is currently abusing grasp, don't think Riot saw that one coming. Only way to balance her tank build is to either nerf grasp for ranged champs, or remove parts of her kit just because of a single interaction.
They could also heavily limit the number of masteries you can pick, and only give them small (non scaling, no % buff) effects. Bone plating isn't broken but it's very useful, letting people pick from an unrestricted list of small effects is also meaningful. Masteries could have early impact but fall off late, that way scaling is truly champion dependent.
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I think either certain masteries should scale with range (for ex. give flash a bigger gap for melee than for ranged), they've already done so with grasp and conqueror kinda, why not also for everything else?
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for a game that has such a hard on for mobility skills and skillshots i dont understand how we dont have blink dagger or force staff in this game yet.
would make the game immensely more fun
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Blink dagger would be interesting for sure. Although double flash does sound a bit OP.
ex. give flash a bigger gap for melee than for ranged
The game is literally balanced around flash range atm, and giving melee a bigger size than ranged might backfire because suddenly all melee champs can stick to ranged champs even better than they already do.
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double flash might sound op but i could think of a lot of champs that would think twice about giving up an item slot and significant gold for another flash (even if blink dagger was only like 1min cd).
either way i think itd be awesome. would certainly make pro games more interesting when teams arent stalling games for flash cds to come back
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Yeah the shakedown on wait for sums when both teams blew alot of stuff really sucks for viewers.
This is why China is so much more fun to watch I guess.
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Blink daggers best feature is it only works when you aren't in combat . Can lol even code that?
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On June 20 2020 01:51 cLutZ wrote:
Blink daggers best feature is it only works when you aren't in combat . Can lol even code that?
Blink dagger IIRC is time from last damage instance from a champ.
Should be doable. Hexflash works like that for example.
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Combat flag definitely already exists in league, but a more accurate flag would be whatever is used for Garen passive because neutral damage does not trigger blink dagger mini cd
Also proto belt is leaguafied force staff, kinda like how thresh lantern is their answer to pudge save. Riot has no interest in non voluntary friendly movement
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why would lols blink dagger have to be bound by dotas item rules?
just let people use it whenever they want (including in combat).
blink in dota was actually like this for a very long time before people started to realise it was broken.
i think it was more broken in dota than it would be for lol though, especially if were only giving lols blink dagger flashs range
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My assumption would be that blink would cost something like 1000g, and then upgraded blink (-50% CD or +25% range) would be another 800g. Item should not give stats, because the active is so strong.
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But that could lead to ult bot support meta with stuff like Annie being a warding cannon minion with (almost) guaranteed aoe engage once every few minutes.
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I mean... Isn't that what we want? Kiting has been too strong in pro play for like 4 years.
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I would assume most support players don't want that because that kind of gameplay sucks
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Why not just make the game 4v4 if you think that?
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League doesnt have slot inefficient items. In a sense that you can get something for 1300-2000k gold that is quite good for what it costs for lets say a specific phase of the game or a specific strat, but then you cant upgrade it anymore and if falls off hard. We had some attempt of items like that in the past - season 1-3 if I remember correctly, but now more or less items are just extra stats that are equally efficient and equally good throughout the game and rarely strategic choices are required such as I'll sell this for that unless full build.
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On June 20 2020 05:12 cLutZ wrote:
Why not just make the game 4v4 if you think that?
I would vote with two hand for 4v4 switch if the removed role is the jungle. I was lucky to play 4-5 ranked games in the last 6-7 seasons where both jungles disconnected at the beginning (more or less) and you have no idea how much more fun, competitive, challenging and back and forth these games were.
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On June 20 2020 04:01 Sent. wrote:
I would assume most support players don't want that because that kind of gameplay sucks
an item like blink dagger is almost exactly the kind of thing riot would want if theyre pushing their "make support more fun to play" agenda.
blink dagger would be a core item for literally every support because it increases their survivability and utility so much more than any other item they could possibly get. how many non blink holders would want to blow their flash to kill a support who flashed with blink?
On June 20 2020 16:46 M2 wrote:
League doesnt have slot inefficient items. In a sense that you can get something for 1300-2000k gold that is quite good for what it costs for lets say a specific phase of the game or a specific strat, but then you cant upgrade it anymore and if falls off hard. We had some attempt of items like that in the past - season 1-3 if I remember correctly, but now more or less items are just extra stats that are equally efficient and equally good throughout the game and rarely strategic choices are required such as I'll sell this for that unless full build.
precisely why it would be a good item imo. rather than fiddling with masteries and failing repeatedly at getting players to make strategic decisions about how to play their champions, why not get them to make that decision in game by having a slot inefficient but situationally very useful item.
maybe im still too attached to dotas design (which ive always said was better than lol), but id love to see more items that have bigger active effects than what lol has now.
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Why not go a step further and replace summoner spells with items? Summoners stall the game when they're down, they let people who get caught escape more easily, or suddenly engage out of nowhere, etc etc... That is something that should warrant an item slot. The items for these don't need to be expensive, the item slot would be the real investment.
I fully agree with replacing masteries with hard stat runes.
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The only downside is having too many actives at that point. For example imagine a support that now has: flash item, exhaust/ignite item, Crucible, Redemption, Sightstone that's five actives to keep track of which is extremely not casual friendly. Plus item management would become a nightmare, at that point you'd "need" boots, sightstone, flash item, exhaust/ignite item which is 4 of your item slots already, compared to the two (boots and sightstone) that are "needed" now
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I already struggle with 2-3 support items and potions, plus trinket. Probably because I developed the habit of having my fingers on Tab-Q-W-E, so I have to reach for the R key (because most ADC don't need to quickly use their ult), and that's extra distance I need to reach for the 5-6-7 keys. Should probably bind those keys to my mouse, but I don't take this game serious enough for that.
Summoners are a key balance point in the game, it's what separates us from Dota. Most of the game, like ability ranges and MS, is balanced around Flash, and it's pretty much the only thing stopping certain kill lanes from straight up annihilating specific matchups. Removing or moving it to item slots would be a gigantic change, imo the biggest the game has ever seen.
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The summoners are few, all champions/people mostly use the same ones, all champions benefit ( give or take ) the same from them, so summoners are fine imo and dont create chaos like the runes/masteries do
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I’m actually fuming that reddit got little legends in ARAM saved
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what is this difference in terms of crowd controlling between camille's and morde's ults that makes one of them QSS-able and the other not?
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I know you can QSS Fizz utlt, but can you QSS Vi ult? Perhaps it's kind of like that?
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You haven’t been able to qss Fizz ult for like 5 years
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QSS only hits cc now, not special effects or debuffs. I'm not sure whether it even works on suppression anymore?
I think because Vi's ult is a displacement effect you could dodge it like Alistar's headbutt, with a QSS (maybe even Cleanse?) followed by a Flash to overwrite the movement? Not sure if it works with current QSS.
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On June 24 2020 05:47 Alaric wrote:
QSS only hits cc now, not special effects or debuffs. I'm not sure whether it even works on suppression anymore?
I think because Vi's ult is a displacement effect you could dodge it like Alistar's headbutt, with a QSS (maybe even Cleanse?) followed by a Flash to overwrite the movement? Not sure if it works with current QSS.
QSS: Works on suppression
Cleanse: Does Not
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EPT
