• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:19
CEST 01:19
KST 08:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)8Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over2New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!38Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles3
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 Which box art did your first copy of StarCraft 1 have? BW General Discussion New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6434 users

[Patch 10.7] Fiddlesticks VGU Release Discussion - Page 2

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 08 2020 23:22 GMT
#21
On April 05 2020 10:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I've got a new theorycraft build that has felt really good so far: Ivern-style Jungle Morgana. Key runes are Glacial Augment, free boots, Future's Market, Ingenious Hunter. Start Hunter's Talisman + refillable. Your first back is Fiendish Codex + Dark Seal, but you don't finish Runic Echoes. Instead you first build Twin Shadows/GLP (in either order) before getting Runic Echoes/Zhonya's (in either order).

The point is that you're basically playing Morgana support but with jungle income. You spec heavily into utility and gratuitously abuse Glacial, but you still bring damage with the Dark Seal (which you aren't at much risk of losing stacks on if you play sensibly). In teamfights, you definitely aren't doing any Flash-ult plays, but you bring ridiculous long-range engage / utility / pick potential.

Only thing to be aware of is that losing Runic Echoes does hurt in terms of missing out on mana, so you need blue buff badly.


Jungle Morg is definitely legit but I kinda feel like both Shadows and GLP rush is too much. How much additional gank assist is a second slow when you should have a slow on R and 3.5+ seconds of hard CC anyways?
Freeeeeeedom
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-10 18:55:58
April 10 2020 18:40 GMT
#22
I don't mind the lag spikes, I understand that that's largely out of Riots control. Just means I have to pick Reksai offstage of Lee Sin. Haha.

The client being this bad though bothers me. I had an error log created this patch that was 26gb in size. Like what the actual fuck.

On April 09 2020 08:22 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2020 10:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I've got a new theorycraft build that has felt really good so far: Ivern-style Jungle Morgana. Key runes are Glacial Augment, free boots, Future's Market, Ingenious Hunter. Start Hunter's Talisman + refillable. Your first back is Fiendish Codex + Dark Seal, but you don't finish Runic Echoes. Instead you first build Twin Shadows/GLP (in either order) before getting Runic Echoes/Zhonya's (in either order).

The point is that you're basically playing Morgana support but with jungle income. You spec heavily into utility and gratuitously abuse Glacial, but you still bring damage with the Dark Seal (which you aren't at much risk of losing stacks on if you play sensibly). In teamfights, you definitely aren't doing any Flash-ult plays, but you bring ridiculous long-range engage / utility / pick potential.

Only thing to be aware of is that losing Runic Echoes does hurt in terms of missing out on mana, so you need blue buff badly.


Jungle Morg is definitely legit but I kinda feel like both Shadows and GLP rush is too much. How much additional gank assist is a second slow when you should have a slow on R and 3.5+ seconds of hard CC anyways?


I'd agree with this, and add that as legit as Morg jungle is, her big weakness is an inability to 1v1, and forgoing runic echoes for twin shadows / GLP exacerbates that. I think you're probably just straight stronger building RE then rushing Zhonya's / Abyssal mask (or SV). You'll farm faster, be tankier in fights due to farming faster, gank just as well due to having more downtime due to farming faster, and you'll have less mana issues and have an earlier power spike in comparison to either of those items.

That being said, I think Gragas in general just kind of does Morg's job better in this early game jungle meta as an AP teamfight initiator. Stronger early, can safely duel, skirmish, evade and contest objectives against the Olafs of the world where as Morg is kind of just a sitting duck. Being in the river with an Olaf or something posturing around Drake 1 thru 3 as Morg is just impossible, but Gragas can posture and poke while having the escape and same hard engage. Morg probably better late game, but Gragas has more say in creating a lategame with gold on his team's win conditions whereas morg is kind of just stuck playing wherever the other guy isn't, imo.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 12 2020 11:24 GMT
#23
So yesterday I dodged an ARAM game well before the lock in. Check op.gg today and see that the game still happened and I was afk. In similar light, two games yesterday I again experienced the annoying bug where the client doesn't show available ARAM choices and your team's picks, it bugs out after one or two people reroll. So someone on my team looked like they had Zoe, but actually played Jayce, and I wasn't able to pick her like I would have liked to.

Client is garbage. At the very least, I have not had any lag spikes for the last few days, but other people in my games have complained, so it's still there.

I understand that that's largely out of Riots control

I don't think the EUW lag spikes are due to ISP routing entirely, maybe in NA. I think the servers are under too much load, that's why people lag one game and not the next, server prioritizes certain games. But these problems started happening before the lockdown...
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 13 2020 01:39 GMT
#24
Is the high load really riots fault? They have higher server load than ever, and they have less people to throw at server maintenance.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 13 2020 08:10 GMT
#25
These problems starting appearing shortly before EU lockdowns, and if the client is lagging/bugging out because of increased server load, then that implies poor design. UI behavior should not break because the server is slow. When I press a button, I expect it to do what it's supposed to, even slow response would be better than right now, where features are just broken.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 14 2020 02:22 GMT
#26
Oh yeah, I agree the client is fucked.

I was saying the ping spikes in game kind of is what it is, I don't blame riot for that. I do blame riot for the atrocities that must be occurring in that clients code, 100%.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 14 2020 09:49 GMT
#27
A few years ago, Riot made a big fuss in NA about streamlining ISP routing between players and servers, i.e. people living in San Francisco might see their data bounce to New York, then back to LA, before reaching the servers in Chicago, resulting in big ping fluctuations and packet loss. That was something I wouldn't blame Riot for, but they still managed to solve it by talking with providers.

The EUW problem right now seems to be server overload: one game people have their normal ping and its stable, the next game they seem to be put in lower priority, where they have 500 ping and packet loss. That's what was happening to me up until a week ago, I could literally see the lag, 1-2 second input delays every minute: now I still see two kinds of games, where I have 19 ping (something I haven't had in over 5 years lol, usually sit at 21-25) but op.gg doesn't see the game, or 27 ping with matches being recorded, and usually 1-2 people sitting on 500-1200 ping.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 172
PiGStarcraft148
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 10803
Artosis 533
Counter-Strike
minikerr141
Super Smash Bros
PPMD123
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi3162
C9.Mang0366
Day[9].tv190
XaKoH 169
ViBE84
UpATreeSC32
Temp015
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21844
Other Games
• imaqtpie1354
• Scarra520
• Day9tv190
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
41m
Kung Fu Cup
11h 41m
RotterdaM Event
16h 56m
Replay Cast
1d
The PondCast
1d 10h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
OSC
4 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
4 days
Mixu vs TBD
Spirit vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Soma vs Shuttle
BeSt vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Proleague 2026-09-01
RSL Revival: Season 6
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.