• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:26
CEST 03:26
KST 10:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End6Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!44Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement!
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) 2026 GSTL Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
[Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO BW General Discussion Rush's Odyssey Controversy [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group B [ASL22] Ro24 Group A Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5342 users

[Patch 10.7] Fiddlesticks VGU Release Discussion - Page 2

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 08 2020 23:22 GMT
#21
On April 05 2020 10:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I've got a new theorycraft build that has felt really good so far: Ivern-style Jungle Morgana. Key runes are Glacial Augment, free boots, Future's Market, Ingenious Hunter. Start Hunter's Talisman + refillable. Your first back is Fiendish Codex + Dark Seal, but you don't finish Runic Echoes. Instead you first build Twin Shadows/GLP (in either order) before getting Runic Echoes/Zhonya's (in either order).

The point is that you're basically playing Morgana support but with jungle income. You spec heavily into utility and gratuitously abuse Glacial, but you still bring damage with the Dark Seal (which you aren't at much risk of losing stacks on if you play sensibly). In teamfights, you definitely aren't doing any Flash-ult plays, but you bring ridiculous long-range engage / utility / pick potential.

Only thing to be aware of is that losing Runic Echoes does hurt in terms of missing out on mana, so you need blue buff badly.


Jungle Morg is definitely legit but I kinda feel like both Shadows and GLP rush is too much. How much additional gank assist is a second slow when you should have a slow on R and 3.5+ seconds of hard CC anyways?
Freeeeeeedom
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-10 18:55:58
April 10 2020 18:40 GMT
#22
I don't mind the lag spikes, I understand that that's largely out of Riots control. Just means I have to pick Reksai offstage of Lee Sin. Haha.

The client being this bad though bothers me. I had an error log created this patch that was 26gb in size. Like what the actual fuck.

On April 09 2020 08:22 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2020 10:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I've got a new theorycraft build that has felt really good so far: Ivern-style Jungle Morgana. Key runes are Glacial Augment, free boots, Future's Market, Ingenious Hunter. Start Hunter's Talisman + refillable. Your first back is Fiendish Codex + Dark Seal, but you don't finish Runic Echoes. Instead you first build Twin Shadows/GLP (in either order) before getting Runic Echoes/Zhonya's (in either order).

The point is that you're basically playing Morgana support but with jungle income. You spec heavily into utility and gratuitously abuse Glacial, but you still bring damage with the Dark Seal (which you aren't at much risk of losing stacks on if you play sensibly). In teamfights, you definitely aren't doing any Flash-ult plays, but you bring ridiculous long-range engage / utility / pick potential.

Only thing to be aware of is that losing Runic Echoes does hurt in terms of missing out on mana, so you need blue buff badly.


Jungle Morg is definitely legit but I kinda feel like both Shadows and GLP rush is too much. How much additional gank assist is a second slow when you should have a slow on R and 3.5+ seconds of hard CC anyways?


I'd agree with this, and add that as legit as Morg jungle is, her big weakness is an inability to 1v1, and forgoing runic echoes for twin shadows / GLP exacerbates that. I think you're probably just straight stronger building RE then rushing Zhonya's / Abyssal mask (or SV). You'll farm faster, be tankier in fights due to farming faster, gank just as well due to having more downtime due to farming faster, and you'll have less mana issues and have an earlier power spike in comparison to either of those items.

That being said, I think Gragas in general just kind of does Morg's job better in this early game jungle meta as an AP teamfight initiator. Stronger early, can safely duel, skirmish, evade and contest objectives against the Olafs of the world where as Morg is kind of just a sitting duck. Being in the river with an Olaf or something posturing around Drake 1 thru 3 as Morg is just impossible, but Gragas can posture and poke while having the escape and same hard engage. Morg probably better late game, but Gragas has more say in creating a lategame with gold on his team's win conditions whereas morg is kind of just stuck playing wherever the other guy isn't, imo.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 12 2020 11:24 GMT
#23
So yesterday I dodged an ARAM game well before the lock in. Check op.gg today and see that the game still happened and I was afk. In similar light, two games yesterday I again experienced the annoying bug where the client doesn't show available ARAM choices and your team's picks, it bugs out after one or two people reroll. So someone on my team looked like they had Zoe, but actually played Jayce, and I wasn't able to pick her like I would have liked to.

Client is garbage. At the very least, I have not had any lag spikes for the last few days, but other people in my games have complained, so it's still there.

I understand that that's largely out of Riots control

I don't think the EUW lag spikes are due to ISP routing entirely, maybe in NA. I think the servers are under too much load, that's why people lag one game and not the next, server prioritizes certain games. But these problems started happening before the lockdown...
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 13 2020 01:39 GMT
#24
Is the high load really riots fault? They have higher server load than ever, and they have less people to throw at server maintenance.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 13 2020 08:10 GMT
#25
These problems starting appearing shortly before EU lockdowns, and if the client is lagging/bugging out because of increased server load, then that implies poor design. UI behavior should not break because the server is slow. When I press a button, I expect it to do what it's supposed to, even slow response would be better than right now, where features are just broken.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 14 2020 02:22 GMT
#26
Oh yeah, I agree the client is fucked.

I was saying the ping spikes in game kind of is what it is, I don't blame riot for that. I do blame riot for the atrocities that must be occurring in that clients code, 100%.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 14 2020 09:49 GMT
#27
A few years ago, Riot made a big fuss in NA about streamlining ISP routing between players and servers, i.e. people living in San Francisco might see their data bounce to New York, then back to LA, before reaching the servers in Chicago, resulting in big ping fluctuations and packet loss. That was something I wouldn't blame Riot for, but they still managed to solve it by talking with providers.

The EUW problem right now seems to be server overload: one game people have their normal ping and its stable, the next game they seem to be put in lower priority, where they have 500 ping and packet loss. That's what was happening to me up until a week ago, I could literally see the lag, 1-2 second input delays every minute: now I still see two kinds of games, where I have 19 ping (something I haven't had in over 5 years lol, usually sit at 21-25) but op.gg doesn't see the game, or 27 ping with matches being recorded, and usually 1-2 people sitting on 500-1200 ping.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#95
CranKy Ducklings82
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 151
ProTech74
RuFF_SC2 30
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3451
GuemChi 2171
MaD[AoV]38
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Counter-Strike
summit1g9076
Fnx 989
minikerr58
taco 0
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox590
Other Games
shahzam568
Artosis477
C9.Mang0368
ViBE171
Maynarde103
Trikslyr54
Mew2King36
Temp026
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1081
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta21
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP9
• OhrlRock 3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 13
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21938
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 34m
Afreeca Starleague
8h 34m
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
9h 34m
Replay Cast
22h 34m
The PondCast
1d 8h
KCM Race Survival
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Escore
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
Patches Events
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
The Patches Monday
5 days
GSL
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.