• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:21
CEST 05:21
KST 12:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out4RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 5/8 Protoss AoE skill expression August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
Michaelbg appreciation thread BW General Discussion How FlaSh Nearly Forfeited MSL Finals being late ASL22 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread Diablo 2 thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Are High-Level Gamers more A…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6804 users

[Patch 10.7] Fiddlesticks VGU Release Discussion - Page 2

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 08 2020 23:22 GMT
#21
On April 05 2020 10:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I've got a new theorycraft build that has felt really good so far: Ivern-style Jungle Morgana. Key runes are Glacial Augment, free boots, Future's Market, Ingenious Hunter. Start Hunter's Talisman + refillable. Your first back is Fiendish Codex + Dark Seal, but you don't finish Runic Echoes. Instead you first build Twin Shadows/GLP (in either order) before getting Runic Echoes/Zhonya's (in either order).

The point is that you're basically playing Morgana support but with jungle income. You spec heavily into utility and gratuitously abuse Glacial, but you still bring damage with the Dark Seal (which you aren't at much risk of losing stacks on if you play sensibly). In teamfights, you definitely aren't doing any Flash-ult plays, but you bring ridiculous long-range engage / utility / pick potential.

Only thing to be aware of is that losing Runic Echoes does hurt in terms of missing out on mana, so you need blue buff badly.


Jungle Morg is definitely legit but I kinda feel like both Shadows and GLP rush is too much. How much additional gank assist is a second slow when you should have a slow on R and 3.5+ seconds of hard CC anyways?
Freeeeeeedom
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-10 18:55:58
April 10 2020 18:40 GMT
#22
I don't mind the lag spikes, I understand that that's largely out of Riots control. Just means I have to pick Reksai offstage of Lee Sin. Haha.

The client being this bad though bothers me. I had an error log created this patch that was 26gb in size. Like what the actual fuck.

On April 09 2020 08:22 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2020 10:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I've got a new theorycraft build that has felt really good so far: Ivern-style Jungle Morgana. Key runes are Glacial Augment, free boots, Future's Market, Ingenious Hunter. Start Hunter's Talisman + refillable. Your first back is Fiendish Codex + Dark Seal, but you don't finish Runic Echoes. Instead you first build Twin Shadows/GLP (in either order) before getting Runic Echoes/Zhonya's (in either order).

The point is that you're basically playing Morgana support but with jungle income. You spec heavily into utility and gratuitously abuse Glacial, but you still bring damage with the Dark Seal (which you aren't at much risk of losing stacks on if you play sensibly). In teamfights, you definitely aren't doing any Flash-ult plays, but you bring ridiculous long-range engage / utility / pick potential.

Only thing to be aware of is that losing Runic Echoes does hurt in terms of missing out on mana, so you need blue buff badly.


Jungle Morg is definitely legit but I kinda feel like both Shadows and GLP rush is too much. How much additional gank assist is a second slow when you should have a slow on R and 3.5+ seconds of hard CC anyways?


I'd agree with this, and add that as legit as Morg jungle is, her big weakness is an inability to 1v1, and forgoing runic echoes for twin shadows / GLP exacerbates that. I think you're probably just straight stronger building RE then rushing Zhonya's / Abyssal mask (or SV). You'll farm faster, be tankier in fights due to farming faster, gank just as well due to having more downtime due to farming faster, and you'll have less mana issues and have an earlier power spike in comparison to either of those items.

That being said, I think Gragas in general just kind of does Morg's job better in this early game jungle meta as an AP teamfight initiator. Stronger early, can safely duel, skirmish, evade and contest objectives against the Olafs of the world where as Morg is kind of just a sitting duck. Being in the river with an Olaf or something posturing around Drake 1 thru 3 as Morg is just impossible, but Gragas can posture and poke while having the escape and same hard engage. Morg probably better late game, but Gragas has more say in creating a lategame with gold on his team's win conditions whereas morg is kind of just stuck playing wherever the other guy isn't, imo.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 12 2020 11:24 GMT
#23
So yesterday I dodged an ARAM game well before the lock in. Check op.gg today and see that the game still happened and I was afk. In similar light, two games yesterday I again experienced the annoying bug where the client doesn't show available ARAM choices and your team's picks, it bugs out after one or two people reroll. So someone on my team looked like they had Zoe, but actually played Jayce, and I wasn't able to pick her like I would have liked to.

Client is garbage. At the very least, I have not had any lag spikes for the last few days, but other people in my games have complained, so it's still there.

I understand that that's largely out of Riots control

I don't think the EUW lag spikes are due to ISP routing entirely, maybe in NA. I think the servers are under too much load, that's why people lag one game and not the next, server prioritizes certain games. But these problems started happening before the lockdown...
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 13 2020 01:39 GMT
#24
Is the high load really riots fault? They have higher server load than ever, and they have less people to throw at server maintenance.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 13 2020 08:10 GMT
#25
These problems starting appearing shortly before EU lockdowns, and if the client is lagging/bugging out because of increased server load, then that implies poor design. UI behavior should not break because the server is slow. When I press a button, I expect it to do what it's supposed to, even slow response would be better than right now, where features are just broken.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 14 2020 02:22 GMT
#26
Oh yeah, I agree the client is fucked.

I was saying the ping spikes in game kind of is what it is, I don't blame riot for that. I do blame riot for the atrocities that must be occurring in that clients code, 100%.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 14 2020 09:49 GMT
#27
A few years ago, Riot made a big fuss in NA about streamlining ISP routing between players and servers, i.e. people living in San Francisco might see their data bounce to New York, then back to LA, before reaching the servers in Chicago, resulting in big ping fluctuations and packet loss. That was something I wouldn't blame Riot for, but they still managed to solve it by talking with providers.

The EUW problem right now seems to be server overload: one game people have their normal ping and its stable, the next game they seem to be put in lower priority, where they have 500 ping and packet loss. That's what was happening to me up until a week ago, I could literally see the lag, 1-2 second input delays every minute: now I still see two kinds of games, where I have 19 ping (something I haven't had in over 5 years lol, usually sit at 21-25) but op.gg doesn't see the game, or 27 ping with matches being recorded, and usually 1-2 people sitting on 500-1200 ping.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#94
PiGStarcraft568
CranKy Ducklings77
EnkiAlexander 56
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft568
WinterStarcraft357
RuFF_SC2 150
ProTech67
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3885
GuemChi 2321
Dota 2
febbydoto66
League of Legends
JimRising 573
Counter-Strike
summit1g8888
taco 426
minikerr83
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1941
Mew2King230
Other Games
C9.Mang0557
Maynarde135
ViBE104
ROOTCatZ50
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick941
BasetradeTV63
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH203
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 164
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra2085
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 39m
Kung Fu Cup
7h 39m
Replay Cast
20h 39m
The PondCast
1d 6h
OSC
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Escore
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
OSC
4 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
The Patches Monday
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-10
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
META DYMY #4
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.