• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:09
CEST 08:09
KST 15:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier3Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League50Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164Rollback Netcode in Brood War146
StarCraft 2
General
Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins Server Blocker
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion SOOP Announces New Women's Monthly Tournament [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals [Women's StarCraft] Tier 8 CK 2026-10-20 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7558 users

[Patch 10.7] Fiddlesticks VGU Release Discussion - Page 2

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 08 2020 23:22 GMT
#21
On April 05 2020 10:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I've got a new theorycraft build that has felt really good so far: Ivern-style Jungle Morgana. Key runes are Glacial Augment, free boots, Future's Market, Ingenious Hunter. Start Hunter's Talisman + refillable. Your first back is Fiendish Codex + Dark Seal, but you don't finish Runic Echoes. Instead you first build Twin Shadows/GLP (in either order) before getting Runic Echoes/Zhonya's (in either order).

The point is that you're basically playing Morgana support but with jungle income. You spec heavily into utility and gratuitously abuse Glacial, but you still bring damage with the Dark Seal (which you aren't at much risk of losing stacks on if you play sensibly). In teamfights, you definitely aren't doing any Flash-ult plays, but you bring ridiculous long-range engage / utility / pick potential.

Only thing to be aware of is that losing Runic Echoes does hurt in terms of missing out on mana, so you need blue buff badly.


Jungle Morg is definitely legit but I kinda feel like both Shadows and GLP rush is too much. How much additional gank assist is a second slow when you should have a slow on R and 3.5+ seconds of hard CC anyways?
Freeeeeeedom
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-10 18:55:58
April 10 2020 18:40 GMT
#22
I don't mind the lag spikes, I understand that that's largely out of Riots control. Just means I have to pick Reksai offstage of Lee Sin. Haha.

The client being this bad though bothers me. I had an error log created this patch that was 26gb in size. Like what the actual fuck.

On April 09 2020 08:22 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2020 10:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I've got a new theorycraft build that has felt really good so far: Ivern-style Jungle Morgana. Key runes are Glacial Augment, free boots, Future's Market, Ingenious Hunter. Start Hunter's Talisman + refillable. Your first back is Fiendish Codex + Dark Seal, but you don't finish Runic Echoes. Instead you first build Twin Shadows/GLP (in either order) before getting Runic Echoes/Zhonya's (in either order).

The point is that you're basically playing Morgana support but with jungle income. You spec heavily into utility and gratuitously abuse Glacial, but you still bring damage with the Dark Seal (which you aren't at much risk of losing stacks on if you play sensibly). In teamfights, you definitely aren't doing any Flash-ult plays, but you bring ridiculous long-range engage / utility / pick potential.

Only thing to be aware of is that losing Runic Echoes does hurt in terms of missing out on mana, so you need blue buff badly.


Jungle Morg is definitely legit but I kinda feel like both Shadows and GLP rush is too much. How much additional gank assist is a second slow when you should have a slow on R and 3.5+ seconds of hard CC anyways?


I'd agree with this, and add that as legit as Morg jungle is, her big weakness is an inability to 1v1, and forgoing runic echoes for twin shadows / GLP exacerbates that. I think you're probably just straight stronger building RE then rushing Zhonya's / Abyssal mask (or SV). You'll farm faster, be tankier in fights due to farming faster, gank just as well due to having more downtime due to farming faster, and you'll have less mana issues and have an earlier power spike in comparison to either of those items.

That being said, I think Gragas in general just kind of does Morg's job better in this early game jungle meta as an AP teamfight initiator. Stronger early, can safely duel, skirmish, evade and contest objectives against the Olafs of the world where as Morg is kind of just a sitting duck. Being in the river with an Olaf or something posturing around Drake 1 thru 3 as Morg is just impossible, but Gragas can posture and poke while having the escape and same hard engage. Morg probably better late game, but Gragas has more say in creating a lategame with gold on his team's win conditions whereas morg is kind of just stuck playing wherever the other guy isn't, imo.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 12 2020 11:24 GMT
#23
So yesterday I dodged an ARAM game well before the lock in. Check op.gg today and see that the game still happened and I was afk. In similar light, two games yesterday I again experienced the annoying bug where the client doesn't show available ARAM choices and your team's picks, it bugs out after one or two people reroll. So someone on my team looked like they had Zoe, but actually played Jayce, and I wasn't able to pick her like I would have liked to.

Client is garbage. At the very least, I have not had any lag spikes for the last few days, but other people in my games have complained, so it's still there.

I understand that that's largely out of Riots control

I don't think the EUW lag spikes are due to ISP routing entirely, maybe in NA. I think the servers are under too much load, that's why people lag one game and not the next, server prioritizes certain games. But these problems started happening before the lockdown...
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 13 2020 01:39 GMT
#24
Is the high load really riots fault? They have higher server load than ever, and they have less people to throw at server maintenance.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 13 2020 08:10 GMT
#25
These problems starting appearing shortly before EU lockdowns, and if the client is lagging/bugging out because of increased server load, then that implies poor design. UI behavior should not break because the server is slow. When I press a button, I expect it to do what it's supposed to, even slow response would be better than right now, where features are just broken.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 14 2020 02:22 GMT
#26
Oh yeah, I agree the client is fucked.

I was saying the ping spikes in game kind of is what it is, I don't blame riot for that. I do blame riot for the atrocities that must be occurring in that clients code, 100%.
DarkCore
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany4194 Posts
April 14 2020 09:49 GMT
#27
A few years ago, Riot made a big fuss in NA about streamlining ISP routing between players and servers, i.e. people living in San Francisco might see their data bounce to New York, then back to LA, before reaching the servers in Chicago, resulting in big ping fluctuations and packet loss. That was something I wouldn't blame Riot for, but they still managed to solve it by talking with providers.

The EUW problem right now seems to be server overload: one game people have their normal ping and its stable, the next game they seem to be put in lower priority, where they have 500 ping and packet loss. That's what was happening to me up until a week ago, I could literally see the lag, 1-2 second input delays every minute: now I still see two kinds of games, where I have 19 ping (something I haven't had in over 5 years lol, usually sit at 21-25) but op.gg doesn't see the game, or 27 ping with matches being recorded, and usually 1-2 people sitting on 500-1200 ping.
Fixed a bug where LeBlanc could lose
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 51m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft550
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2877
GuemChi 1300
Mind 92
Barracks 66
NotJumperer 56
Aegong 39
ZergMaN 38
ToSsGirL 33
Bale 30
ProTech20
[ Show more ]
Icarus 8
Dota 2
Fuzer 17
Other Games
summit1g6560
C9.Mang0317
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick573
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2219
League of Legends
• Stunt497
Other Games
• Shiphtur619
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 51m
Kung Fu Cup
4h 51m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 4h
Reynor vs Zoun
Neeb vs Rogue
FEL
3 days
Patches Events
3 days
AI Arena Tournament
3 days
FEL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.