EPTIf you define "bot laner"/"support" as a method of allocating gold and cs, then Senna is the support.
If you define "bot laner"/"support" as a class of champions or a role in the teamcomp, then Tahm Kench is the support.
[Patch 10.5] Eternals Release General Discussion - Page 2
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
If you define "bot laner"/"support" as a method of allocating gold and cs, then Senna is the support. If you define "bot laner"/"support" as a class of champions or a role in the teamcomp, then Tahm Kench is the support. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8614 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I get why it’s smart for pro teams to have the players play their better champion rather than role but this “famine style “ is literally as intended. I think this distinction matters a lot because mist needs to be nerfed, I don’t care about how strong she is, even if she was weak, which she isn’t. Having farming actually reduce your potential strength just does not belong in the genre at all in my opinion. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
I think her supporting melee Champions is really cool. I think it opens up all kinds of really cool lanes. Like imagine Senna Pantheon. That's a cool lane; you have a champ that wants farm and has big dick kill pressure and can also poke with Senna. Then Pantheon falls off and relinquishes the carry role and Senna steps into it. On a different note; how do you feel about must pick ban champs in soloqueue draft? Like say release Aphelios or Sett. In competitive it's cut and dry; if you can first pick it, awesome go get your freeloader. If not? Ban it. Ezpz. Soloqueue is more nuanced though, because changes are your last pick wants to play it, but... No one else in the team wants to risk having the unbalanced abomination on your enemies team. Historically I've always just banned it regardless, but often times that tilts the shit out of whatever player on your team wants to play the busted champ, and they frequently just play badly. Am I nuts and I should just allow my top laner to get dicked by a release Sett level pick because my 3rd rotation jungler wants to pick him? Or is banning him the right call? I kind of feel like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Also... The Anivia buffs on pbe right now will make her pick ban. Ult persists through CC. Jesus. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
She needs small but numerous nerfs to become less dominant: - Less range per level - Q shouldn't be able to use own minions. That would be a big nerf, but imo wouldn't destroy her. - Slightly less souls dropped. I'd say 80 souls in 20 minutes should be max, or nerf per soul stats to make 100 fair. If she's very behind (2 souls per minute) buff the spawn rate. Dont think you will see Senna Panth because she really needs someone to protect her, hence why Tahm is all the rage atm. Especially because loads of people forget he's a fairly strong tank, solid damage and nobody is getting to Senna when a 3000 HP Tahm swallow her with W up. His W is fairly similar to Sett actually, temp shield is enough to swing fights in your favour if it let's you soak up a high CD nuke ability. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
That being said, I don't really play bot lane so maybe it's just terrible, but I imagine it's got a way stronger lane phase then SennaKench. https://u.gg/lol/champions/pantheon/duos?role=support&patch=10_4 Also seems to be a pretty strong lane with the limited data available on Pantheon support / bot. 3 straight patches with the configuration being over 55% winrate as a Duo. Which... The average of champions on the list is only an eyeballed 46%. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On March 10 2020 04:29 iCanada wrote: On a different note; how do you feel about must pick ban champs in soloqueue draft? Like say release Aphelios or Sett. In competitive it's cut and dry; if you can first pick it, awesome go get your freeloader. If not? Ban it. Ezpz. Soloqueue is more nuanced though, because changes are your last pick wants to play it, but... No one else in the team wants to risk having the unbalanced abomination on your enemies team. Historically I've always just banned it regardless, but often times that tilts the shit out of whatever player on your team wants to play the busted champ, and they frequently just play badly. Am I nuts and I should just allow my top laner to get dicked by a release Sett level pick because my 3rd rotation jungler wants to pick him? Or is banning him the right call? I kind of feel like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Use http://na.op.gg/multi on your teammates in pregame lobby and ban if they don't play that champion. But if they do play it, have been playing it recently, or they've declared it, don't ban it, wtf, don't be a dick. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Also seems to be a pretty strong lane with the limited data available on Pantheon support / bot. 3 straight patches with the configuration being over 55% winrate as a Duo. Which... The average of champions on the list is only an eyeballed 46%. Lots of kill lanes have high win % because people pick them into favourable matchups. Brand Senna has 56.5% winratio, Darius has low sample size but huge win rates on loads of duos. And Senna has a 55% win ratio, so all those numbers are inflated anyway. Sett is her best duo too, tells you everything about latest releases. My gripe with Panth support is that he can't build support items since he doesn't buff you, and also goes Conquerer instead of Guardian or Aftershock, so he's a super feast or famine support considering he falls off hard as the game goes on. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4103 Posts
 League of Legends Patch 10.6 >>> Systems <<< Teleport Buff (for top) Deaths Dance Rework Funnel Nerf >>> Nerfs <<< Senna Aphelios Garen Darius Shaco >>> Buffs <<< Soraka (support) Anivia Nasus Urgot Kayn Kindred Hecarim Xerath Veigar Draven Morgana >>> Other <<< Autofill Parity Duo Parity Wukong Mini-rework >>> Jungle Pool <<< Brand Zyra Morgana Shen Teemo Yorick Twisted Fate work from 10.5 is in here too. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
That champion is so aids when he's reliably strong. As it is he's kind of disgusting if played well. The graves player in me is sad about the DD rework; it's basically a net nerf for him compared to current DD, and he builds it all the time and it's not exactly like Graves is OP right now. Only other ranged DD user I can think of is Urgot, and he's not exactly a world beater either. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Riot buff him this patch, then his play rate doubled and his winrate dropped slightly... But like... Kayn mains had a winrate buff, and his beginner win rate didn't change. Thing is that new Kayn players don't understand that even though Kayn without form is ass, you need to be fighting and making plays to get form. See first time Karyn players all the time just never fight, or go start fighting and not hold their E to run away, or try to take 2v2 all in crab fights or shit like that. But basically you want to Skirmish and not really commit to farm as many orbs as safely as you can. Need to make plays or you're stuck formless at 12 minutes. But realistically you should be able to get form at 8 minutes reliably just by making safe skirmishes, making strong side plays, and by doing opposite side ganks. At that point SA or Rhaast should just take over the game. And a tough part of that too is tailoring your pathing to get the right form for the game, which is wacky and just requires a lot of games played. I'm not a great Kayn player, but when he's played well he's such a true terror. He's probably the most obnoxious champion to play against when he's fed in the game. One of the hardest 1v9 champs in the game. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Not sure if I'd consider that TP change to be a buff.... 8 minutes CD at the start of the game. Lol. Top wants to be able to impact the map more early, not less. Meanwhile, many top laners take nimbus cloak as is. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9132 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I actuality really dislike the majority of the changes on that list I’ll go into more detail when I have time | ||
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