You'd Q -> ult with Ryze 2 if you wanted to nuke the entire enemy team before they started scattering during a teamfight.
Otherwise one rotation -> R -> 2nd rotation was better, notably against a single target.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

June 02 2019 10:15 GMT

#43

On June 02 2019 07:24 Alaric wrote:
You'd Q -> ult with Ryze 2 if you wanted to nuke the entire enemy team before they started scattering during a teamfight.
Otherwise one rotation -> R -> 2nd rotation was better, notably against a single target.

IIRC E could bounce off yourself, and shredded MR so dropping E early with multi-bounces(+R damage), could be fine.

The champ honestly had a fair amount of depth, riot just didn't like the point and click aspect of the champ in combination with the amount of damage he could deal.

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

June 02 2019 14:15 GMT

#44

I wasn't a mid laner back then, so I barely remember his combo. All I do know is that ultimate was being used as part of the combo to reduce the CD on his other abilities.

The champ honestly had a fair amount of depth, riot just didn't like the point and click aspect of the champ in combination with the amount of damage he could deal.

The only depth was in how proficient you were at button smashing the right combo for the situation. In a game where control mages were basically the only thing in mid lane, he was different but his build path was so stupid. Building FH and Banshee, which used to be so much better, meant he was a half tank with extreme damage and the only AP champ with spell vamp that was viable (I think Vlad was trash in S2, no?). He was also so much easier to play than most other champs, while having a high skill ceiling.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

June 02 2019 15:31 GMT

#45

To be honest I thought my own post was being too picky but this one is the same thing that agitated me in the first place. If you break it down outside of the game with no pressure this game is just easy in general. Saying that champ is easy all you have to do is read the situation and press the right buttons is hella reductive.

And yes this was full tank banshees, literally the only thing that “sucks” about this build compared to today was archangels didn’t have an active.

A lot of people were building wota on everything back in s2 and I’m not really sure in hindsight if it was good or bad. Spellvamp is significantly worse than we thought it was at the time, but the first iteration of wota was insanely cheap.

Jek

Denmark2771 Posts

June 02 2019 16:45 GMT

#46

On June 03 2019 00:31 Slusher wrote:
A lot of people were building wota on everything back in s2 and I’m not really sure in hindsight if it was good or bad. Spellvamp is significantly worse than we thought it was at the time, but the first iteration of wota was insanely cheap.

The real strength of WotA was honestly it was aura based and iirc it dropped out of popularity almost immediately when the aura was removed. If it was re-introduced in the aura version I'm 99.9% it'd be popular even in today's game. Imagine something like Ezreal with a free +30 AP and 15% spell vamp, that's pretty nasty.

All the old aura items were lowkey insane.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

June 02 2019 17:13 GMT

#47

yea I think your right, but it's crazy to imagine this was a t3 item that literally costed 2100g

but my memory of it falling out of the meta was basically someone asked Froggen why he never built it after the cost increase and he said because spellvamp was useless and people thought about it objectively for the first time and were like oh yea, it does kinda suck

but that might just be my personal experence

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

June 02 2019 18:09 GMT

#48

That's not how I wanted to come across. My point was that old Ryze was a lot more about muscle memory rather than smart play. For example, Ahri predicting her charm, or Malphite flash ulting for a big engage. The new Ryze requires a lot more brain as well, like using minions to spread E to get Q dmg, the conditional long root etc. There is undoubtedly skill involved in chaining abilities rapidly and in the right order for the needed situation, but he was aimed to be a 'noob' champ since he was 450 IP, so one of the first champions any new player could buy.

And yes this was full tank banshees, literally the only thing that “sucks” about this build compared to today was archangels didn’t have an active.

His build path was stupid to play against, ironically I think a small reason the holy trinity of ADC did so well was because they weren't AS reliant so FH being built like every game meant they didn't suffer as badly.

Spellvamp did suck outside of WotA, but that's why Ryze ult was so incredibly strong.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

June 02 2019 18:22 GMT

#49

I had never considered that point about the troika but it makes sense.

cLutZ

United States19574 Posts

June 02 2019 20:19 GMT

#50

Im pretty sure the bigger advantage for them came before anyone built FH. Early on they pushed so much harder in lane and could 2v3 if the jungler came against someone like Vayne or Kog.

AdsMoFro

Japan4761 Posts

June 02 2019 20:21 GMT

#51

Speaking of throwbacks. I was reminded of my Diana 1-trick days. Crystalline flask into double dorans into abyssal mask. What a classic build. Playing Diana now feels so bad ;(

What are everyone's fav old items/old iterations of items?

Sent.

Poland9247 Posts

June 02 2019 20:28 GMT

#52

It's not that old and not exactly optimal but rushing the old Banner of Command against Singed was quite fun.

Uldridge

Belgium4960 Posts

June 02 2019 20:30 GMT

#53

Don't want to be a nitpicker, but it was an abyssal scepter.

I really loved Deathfire grasp. Using it on midlane Eve or Akali, with gunblade. It was so much fun trying to blow people up.

JimmiC

Canada22817 Posts

June 02 2019 20:31 GMT

#54

--- Nuked ---

chipmonklord17

United States11944 Posts

June 02 2019 20:32 GMT

#55

I miss dirty Banner of Command Sion mid days tbh

Sent.

Poland9247 Posts

June 02 2019 20:33 GMT

#56

On June 03 2019 05:31 JimmiC wrote:
My fav time even though it was so short lived was full AP mao after the update. having adc's 100-0 when your not even around was fucking hilarious.

Hahaha yeah, the bushes were really scary back then

Ansibled

United Kingdom9872 Posts

June 02 2019 20:50 GMT

#57

On June 03 2019 05:21 AdsMoFro wrote:
Speaking of throwbacks. I was reminded of my Diana 1-trick days. Crystalline flask into double dorans into abyssal mask. What a classic build. Playing Diana now feels so bad ;(

What are everyone's fav old items/old iterations of items?

Honestly think Diana is in a decent place. She's not release level broken or even close to it but it doesn't seem like a struggle to play.