EPT[Patch 8.16] NERF.ZOE. General Discussion - Page 2
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
What riot should do to get back players is revert Rek'sai rework. Thanks. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 17 2018 06:27 AdsMoFro wrote: I think runes needed to change. I think the rune rework as an idea was a success even though it obviously missed the mark. What riot should do to get back players is revert Rek'sai rework. Thanks. Meh, customization was not needed. A rune rework, if one were to exist at all, should have just been a 100% elimination of all pregame champ customization. There are so many champs that all these things do is cause balancing of one champion to blow out the problems of another (just like a 2nd form of item balancing). | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
I still don't see the problem with just giving stats. Stats can be cool by themselves, you don't need to add ridiculously contrived things to them for them to be fun or interesting. I also don't think there's too much damage in the game, just too much unpunishable damage, if that makes sense. There are a bunch of situations where the correct counterplay is not playing the game, which makes the game sometimes quite annoying. Most of this is just coming from playing vs new Akali though. | ||
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
On August 17 2018 06:42 cLutZ wrote: Meh, customization was not needed. A rune rework, if one were to exist at all, should have just been a 100% elimination of all pregame champ customization. There are so many champs that all these things do is cause balancing of one champion to blow out the problems of another (just like a 2nd form of item balancing). I think the runes and customizing make the game a lot more approachable for people who don’t have the time to grind a million games. I can pick a champ and play it. If someone picks a champ that beats me up in lane, I can go resolve primary to survive and gathering storm secondary to scale. If it’s someone non threatening I can pick a greedy rune choice and punish that way. Instead of needing to learn three champs, I learn one champ and vary the runes. It makes the game more playable for busy people. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
New runes exacerbate strengths and make the game much more counter heavy imo. I think just removing pregame customization would be better and more easily balanced.... because let's be real there is no real customization with the current set up regardless. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 17 2018 08:02 General_Winter wrote: I think the runes and customizing make the game a lot more approachable for people who don’t have the time to grind a million games. I can pick a champ and play it. If someone picks a champ that beats me up in lane, I can go resolve primary to survive and gathering storm secondary to scale. If it’s someone non threatening I can pick a greedy rune choice and punish that way. Instead of needing to learn three champs, I learn one champ and vary the runes. It makes the game more playable for busy people. That was more a function of the old runes. Against renekton? Full Armor runes. Scaling matchup? Gp5 or scaling runes. The new runes don't really do that at all. Most champions have an optimal build or 2, and its not particularly matchup dependent. Instead, the matchups are rune dependent with every rebalancing of the runes wildly changing which matchups work and who are meta champions. If I am a Singed 1-trick my runes wont change if I am facing Kennen top vs. warwick top my runes will be the same. Just look at Impact's runes, they are the same vs. Poppy & Malz. https://www.probuilds.net/pros/details/impact Plus, if we are talking about making the game more approachable. There are few things more stressful in this game than trying to make sure your runes are correct as the champ-select timer ticks down, and new players aren't doing that at all. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
As a top laner I only really ever changed if I wanted second wind or that other minor rune. Each champ basically has one optimal rune setup and that's it. A few have a 2nd option like GP but even then Grasp just outperforms klepto in most instances. Runes/masteries essentially fill the niche of the starting items you buy in dota. The new runes do a bit more than those small items but in a way they are far less interesting because of how little choice you actually have. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 18 2018 08:03 Numy wrote: The problem with the old runes was that most people didn't do any of that customization because spending your IP buying runes felt bad compared to grabbing a new flashy champ. Removing runes as an IP sink was definitely a good idea, customization should not be behind some form of paywall. However the new system reduced a lot of the possible customization and really missed the mark in what they wanted to achieve. As a top laner I only really ever changed if I wanted second wind or that other minor rune. Each champ basically has one optimal rune setup and that's it. A few have a 2nd option like GP but even then Grasp just outperforms klepto in most instances. Runes/masteries essentially fill the niche of the starting items you buy in dota. The new runes do a bit more than those small items but in a way they are far less interesting because of how little choice you actually have. I agree. The IP cost of runes sucked. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On August 18 2018 05:26 cLutZ wrote: That was more a function of the old runes. Against renekton? Full Armor runes. Scaling matchup? Gp5 or scaling runes. The new runes don't really do that at all. Most champions have an optimal build or 2, and its not particularly matchup dependent. Instead, the matchups are rune dependent with every rebalancing of the runes wildly changing which matchups work and who are meta champions. If I am a Singed 1-trick my runes wont change if I am facing Kennen top vs. warwick top my runes will be the same. Just look at Impact's runes, they are the same vs. Poppy & Malz. https://www.probuilds.net/pros/details/impact Plus, if we are talking about making the game more approachable. There are few things more stressful in this game than trying to make sure your runes are correct as the champ-select timer ticks down, and new players aren't doing that at all. To be fair he was against Mundo in the Malzahar game. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On August 18 2018 10:56 Bladeorade wrote: I think they need to revert single target spells drawing minion aggro so Pantheon is playable again And give Teemo back his 700 base damage with +100% AP shrooms too while we're at it. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On August 18 2018 11:29 Jek wrote: And give Teemo back his 700 base damage with +100% AP shrooms too while we're at it. Sure whatever Did they really use to be 700 base damage? That sounds wrong edit: So they did but we're talking April 2011 lmao. I didn't quit SC2 until August 2011 so I never even played versus 700 damage shrooms. Pantheon change was recent and killed him in lane. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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Ethelis
United States2400 Posts
On August 18 2018 10:56 Bladeorade wrote: I think they need to revert single target spells drawing minion aggro so Pantheon is playable again Riot: In oUr TeStInG nO cHaMp WaS nEgAtIvElY ImPaCtEd | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 18 2018 10:56 Bladeorade wrote: I think they need to revert single target spells drawing minion aggro so Pantheon is playable again I disagree. Its actually smart. All they need to do is balance him around minion aggro, like ADCs are. This would have the benefit of giving them cover to bring back old Ryze, aka single target Q, movespeed AOE ult Ryze | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
On August 18 2018 11:41 Bladeorade wrote: Sure whatever Did they really use to be 700 base damage? That sounds wrong edit: So they did but we're talking April 2011 lmao. I didn't quit SC2 until August 2011 so I never even played versus 700 damage shrooms. Pantheon change was recent and killed him in lane. i've been having really good success with him in jungle though I think he's an underrated pick there especially vs squishy teams | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On August 18 2018 11:41 Bladeorade wrote: Sure whatever Did they really use to be 700 base damage? That sounds wrong edit: So they did but we're talking April 2011 lmao. I didn't quit SC2 until August 2011 so I never even played versus 700 damage shrooms. Pantheon change was recent and killed him in lane. It was beyond cancer. Squishy supports could die by literally just stepping on a single shroom. Was the minion aggro change really that big of a hit to pantheon, didn't the rune changes make up for it? | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 19 2018 08:27 Jek wrote: It was beyond cancer. Squishy supports could die by literally just stepping on a single shroom. Was the minion aggro change really that big of a hit to pantheon, didn't the rune changes make up for it? Says the Janna player. X_X | ||
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