Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Maybe its just me, but I don't really care about AP item diversity. I prefer braindead choices, because in the end they will be, its just you have to figure it out again.
Imo eliminate all the AP items but Athenes, Rod, Tear, Cap, Void, and Zhonyas
On February 22 2018 14:13 cLutZ wrote: Maybe its just me, but I don't really care about AP item diversity. I prefer braindead choices, because in the end they will be, its just you have to figure it out again.
Imo eliminate all the AP items but Athenes, Rod, Tear, Cap, Void, and Zhonyas
I don't really care if every champ settles back down into "these are your core items" as long as pretty much *everybody* doesn't default to the same thing like they do with Morello/Liandry/Void currently.
As far as the patch goes, I hate that Tracker's Knife is being taken out and Lost Chapter gets even more busted. =[
I do worry that making the objectives too powerful makes silly mistakes like random steals even more impactful. Wonder if some adjustments to other variables may be more healthy way to do it then just "if you want to end a game you have take these things".
This would also mean that if a team massive ahead gets their first one randomly stolen the game will stall even harder?
On February 22 2018 20:10 Numy wrote: I do worry that making the objectives too powerful makes silly mistakes like random steals even more impactful. Wonder if some adjustments to other variables may be more healthy way to do it then just "if you want to end a game you have take these things".
It's more a "you can't just stall with 3 inhibs down on Azir/Sivir until 90 minutes when your opponent finally makes a critical mistake with death timers long enough to walk all the way across the map" insurance.
This would also mean that if a team massive ahead gets their first one randomly stolen the game will stall even harder?
It will mean that teams that are ahead will assess that taking an objective is too risky because of comebacks, and play the game passively, slow and methodical. Then BAM, someone gets second Baron/Elder, and they steamroll the enemy team. A support with second Elder and like three dragons can practically DPS down a carry if they're not being targeted themselves.
Only good thing is above comment, that stalling in your base for 90 minutes is basically impossible.
I’m sad that the new magic pen item builds in to the new Morellonomicon. Previously spell pen rush was a viable strategy against a squishy lane opponent if your champ had good poke. Then late game your spell pen item did something useful. Now unless they have a major healer or drain tank the spell pen rush will leave you with a subpar item in the mid to late game. I think it reduces your ability to choose a build path based on who you are laneing against.
Yeah. I get that, but what I would want is a spell pen option that is genericly decent rather than good against everyone. Maybe a stat like HP, or combine it with wisp and give a little movespeed. Something where you don’t have to pay for a possibility useless grievous wounds if all you want is spell pen.
Removing green smite is terrible you can't play around all the junglers who took red smite and just lomoed at people and they were already strong in soloqueue.
On February 22 2018 20:10 Numy wrote: I do worry that making the objectives too powerful makes silly mistakes like random steals even more impactful. Wonder if some adjustments to other variables may be more healthy way to do it then just "if you want to end a game you have take these things".
This would also mean that if a team massive ahead gets their first one randomly stolen the game will stall even harder?
I also feel like steals represent a real issue. I already hated them, now they are even less satisfying
Edit: joking aside raising the importantance of buffs raises the importance of champs that can effectively secure them (Cho, Kalista, and Nunu for example). Right now buffs are weak so champs that can waveclear forever like Azir are priorities. Post change buffs will be strong so champs that can contest will be prioritized. I don’t think that’s bad or random. It’s just something to be mindful of in champ selection. If you don’t have a plan you’ll be disadvantaged. That seems ok. Having the must pick lead to fights and secures / steals seems better than having the must picks lead to stall fests.
Is this the best way to help deal with stall fests? I fear it may start even more stall fests as Darkcore mentioned. This is the quickest/easiest fix but it may not be the best long term fix. Hopefully they keep an eye on it.
On February 23 2018 05:28 Numy wrote: Is this the best way to help deal with stall fests? I fear it may start even more stall fests as Darkcore mentioned. This is the quickest/easiest fix but it may not be the best long term fix. Hopefully they keep an eye on it.
I've always felt that Riot has an incorrect view that adding snowball mechanics will shorten competitive game times. They have a very real risk to backfire, because said mechanics discourage 'risky' play and create snooze fest games where teams only go for easy objectives. Who knows, this might work out, but I have a feeling it's going to lead to some hilarious comeback games at the start, mixed in with some incredibly long games.
On February 23 2018 05:28 Numy wrote: Is this the best way to help deal with stall fests? I fear it may start even more stall fests as Darkcore mentioned. This is the quickest/easiest fix but it may not be the best long term fix. Hopefully they keep an eye on it.
I've always felt that Riot has an incorrect view that adding snowball mechanics will shorten competitive game times. They have a very real risk to backfire, because said mechanics discourage 'risky' play and create snooze fest games where teams only go for easy objectives. Who knows, this might work out, but I have a feeling it's going to lead to some hilarious comeback games at the start, mixed in with some incredibly long games.
The other thing is that, like I mentioned in the LCK thread, the game is already very snowbally right now, its just that the snowball starts later, and isn't really based on lane outplays (although sometimes a good gank botlane does seem to create an unstoppable snowball). The snowballs are mostly based on teamcomp, and who gets more people to the fight first. Saying that the game needs more snowball mechanics based on teamfighting is ass-backwards. They need more snowball mechanics that aren't based on fog of war and a lucky CC hitting an out of place carry.
Yeah, I agree that the game does have good snowball mechanics right now, the problem is that teams are afraid of acquiring them because if it fails, the snowball goes the other way. And laning phase has become quite boring, you get solo kills but most of the time it doesn't result in more than one or two kills and maybe a modest cs advantage of 10-30 by the 20 minute mark. Snowballing has become a macro oriented mechanic, the days of Riven shitting so hard on the top laner they can't even lane safely are gone: now top lane eeks out an advantage.
I still think TP needs to be removed and replaced with Dota style consumables which have activation cooldowns. Would make laning a lot more punishing. It might be a positive for split pushers because all of a sudden the enemy laner has to make the decision to either hold a lane they will slowly be pushed out of, or group up and force objectives faster than the split pusher can take turrets.
Yes, and the other thing that there is a serious problem with having 2 neutral objectives on the map for a majority of the game with so few wards available. You can't ward both up properly so everything takes longer.
Plus, it feels like people don't take dragons once baron spawns (unless it is a solo dragon) so you get like a 10 minute dead period until teams have enough items to safely do baron.
So what we need in a sense is more volatility, without adding more snowball potential to it per se? Teams need an incentive to take the risk without being afraid of it backfiring, so more low/moderate risk - low/moderate rewards need to be there in order to make the current assessment of advantage less obvious (first tower gold; giving up kill streak gold; top turret armor) What if TP can only be used on a special item that's bought in the game, for like 150-200 gold? Also, I don't know how I feel about 50/50 barons. On one hand they might be super risky and the initiator (power play/currently ahead team) loses its advantage -> too risky therefore don't do baron (or wait too long); on the other hand: it can reward decisive teamplay (from both sides) and start a potentially unstoppable (counter) snowball. People need to start more fights, need to be more willing to all in, need to do more barons on spawn. What if minions have shit gold rate if you just kill them when being passive, but ramp up if you kill champions in your lane (more gold for you, but also more for the opponent, but like 50% less)?
That’s way more complicated than just shifting ambient gold to minions, but I can’t see Riot implementing that change, because they seem to want support to be powerful, which makes sense but it does have side effects
Just as a threshold matter for minions, reverting the change that moved gold out of them and into the passive Gp5 could give advantages to more decisive play in lane. However, pros will demand more warding options before they go down that route because its too risky to aggressively zone at that level 1v1 unless you have 3 or so paths warded (indeed, doing so just gives away your jungler's location in modern times).
The other thing I think would be a decent option is just lowering the burden on teams doing rift/dragon early (and IMO early dragon rewards are too crappy). At lvl 6 you should be able to force a fight there if you want if that is your powerspike. Currently its also too risky. Part of that is the lack of wards which makes pick comps just worse, and part of it is nerfs to pick champions.
Another thing I think about the "problem" of games going too long is just people complaining about good lategame teamcomps being good in the lategame. There was that super long Jin Air-SKT game where SKT had Kassadin-Ez vs. Sivir-Azir. with 2 super tanks. Guess what hombres? SKT has to win that before those carries get online or else they are gonna have a hard time hitting structures, that is the comp. Ez will never kill Ornn or TK late, Kass hasn't been a lategame champ in 3 seasons.
Maybe, really his problem late is getting the first kill, so its more a win more thing for him lategame. Because of his AOE I'd be happy trading 1-1 as Kass lategame for any of the other team's carries (unless I'm super fed).
out of curiosity, everyone seems to hate stalled games and drawn out games. does that mean everyone would be against the implementation of a buy back mechanic like in dota? ive always thought lol should introduce it, due to the lack of a gold sink in the late game and because its lame as fuck that literally ONE teamwipe after 40mins is just insta lose.
Really like the idea of more consumables in the game. So TP scroll, smite scroll (to cheese your way to an early dragon), clairvoyance scroll, temporary minion buff scroll (like a mini baron buff), there are lots of ways that Riot could add more flavour to the game. These mini items would allow for more flexibility and interesting scenarios in the early/mid game. Riot has basically removed every cheap, T2 final build item in the game, like Wriggle's Lantern, Brutalizer, Haunting Guise before Torment. These items used to be incredibly powerful powerful when you first built them, but because they were only T2, they would fall off late game.
Bringing back elixir starts is also a nice idea I think. They were high risk/reward items that allowed for lane dominance, but if you didn't get a substantial lead they were pretty detrimental.
AP kaisa is kind of hilarious. W poke is less damage than a max range Nid spear, and it has a much longer cd if you miss, but it has an extra 1000 range, reveals fog of war, and travels faster. And it scales with both AD and AP. Probably not good enough to base a build around but it's still funny.
On February 23 2018 12:46 iCanada wrote: I want Volibear to be good so bad, but he is garbage. Zzz...
Just can't clear fast enough at all.
Plz rework.
His winrate massively spiked on this patch.
Idk, he might be relatively strong and is certainly buffed this patch, but he's still a very flawed champ.
He's a level 3 jungler that gets there slowly. You need to snowball at level 3 or at least get ahead eniugh that you can contest the other guys jungle at that point or you lose jungle 100% against anyone that doesnt waste half their time.
That's your win condition; pop off before 15 minutes and get unkillable enough that you can run in and start a fight on one thing without dying.
Compared to WW he's totally garbage. Zero reason to lock him in over Warwick, who does the same thing but gets to 3 like 30s faster, is much more adaptable to random shit in game, snowballs just as hard, can keep up with almost every jungler in farm, and has reliable engage, CC, and real defence steroids.
Sad thing is WW himself isn't even an S tier jungler because of how important wraith camp is and how poorly he kill it. And he kills it better than Voli does AND can afford to buy tiamat because he has defensive steroids, a gapcloser, and an easier time escaping.
With passive up very few champs in the pool can 1v1 him early. And if he can get a lead very few can contest him at all til like 25 minutes. Need to get out of lane with him or he'll smash you. Ha ha.
It's more obnoxious because like you said, you can't trade with him when he flips you either or you take ridiculous minion damage.
Ok. I’ve just spent entirely too much time mathing out the new ap items.
And I’ve turned all that analysis to answering one vital and metagame relevant question... what does AP Cho’Gath need to build to one combo an Alistar who is stacking HP and MR items?
The answer: you need sorcery boots, hat, void staff and three other high AP items. If one of those is a fully stacked spellbinder, then you can be flexible with the other two as long as at least one of those is a hextech trigger or torment. If you don’t have a fully stacked Spellbinder then to one combo Alistar you need a hextech item (like proto belt) and a lichbane and you have to hit both procs.
Hopefully I’ll have some more practical thoughts later on.
Can someone explain just how the remake system work?
We invade get three kills since Veigar, Annie, Cait and Nocturne is a metric fuckton of AoE CC and AoE damage early, they manage to kill me (the spicy support Veigar). Then they remake, all their laners have items and are level 2 so they have at least been within exp range for two waves...
On February 24 2018 22:56 Jek wrote: Can someone explain just how the remake system work?
We invade get three kills since Veigar, Annie, Cait and Nocturne is a metric fuckton of AoE CC and AoE damage early, they manage to kill me (the spicy support Veigar). Then they remake, all their laners have items and are level 2 so they have at least been within exp range for two waves...
If one person didn't connect before you guys got those kills then its irrelevant. That's what I'm assuming happened.
QUINN CHANGES. One of my fav champs. Her rework was complete dogshit btw and I knew from the start that issues were going to be apparent as soon as they failed to address the issue of her passive's clunkiness within her kit, as well as her R just feeling awful to start off with. These are correct moves within her current identity but I will forever miss her counter-AD mid lane assassin playstyle that I honestly wish Riot went all in on. It was my favorite playstyle out of them all. Playing top, you just abused ranged vs melee for the most part which wasn't very fun. Playing bot (haha nice joke). Mid lane, you were pretty screwed vs AP Mages, but vs Talon and Zed and some AP assassins I think she was a very good pick and just a very fun champ to play. Probably never going to get that though
Slated to be long-term, not released next patch at the very least.
On February 24 2018 22:56 Jek wrote: Can someone explain just how the remake system work?
We invade get three kills since Veigar, Annie, Cait and Nocturne is a metric fuckton of AoE CC and AoE damage early, they manage to kill me (the spicy support Veigar). Then they remake, all their laners have items and are level 2 so they have at least been within exp range for two waves...
If one person didn't connect before you guys got those kills then its irrelevant. That's what I'm assuming happened.
Ah. That'd make sense since we never saw their mid during the slaughter not even taking a peek around the corner. Usually getting a DC suck, but I guess sometimes you get to be lucky.
First thing I read about that quinn post is "more late game power, no lane bullying."
Lane bullying has become a weird term. When was the last time a champion became better at bullying in lane following buffs? As far as I can tell aside from cases like Nunu being able to jungle again, all the lane bullies have been champions that were released as such and Riot's default stance is "nerf the laning and buff the ratios."
Quinn was an absolute disgusting monster top lane that just meant if you picked before Quinn and picked something that couldn't handle her then you are removed from the game. You better off just dodging the queue then participating in the game.
I assume that's the dynamic they want to fix. So instead of her being useless pick they can buff her to usefulness without making her instantly remove a player from the game.
That champ still exists though, just not as Quinn.
You could just as easily play like AD leblanc or Vayne in the same spot. Speaking of which, everyone needs to play as A leblanc in to Nasus at least once in their lives. Fun game.
If you take out the 30 AP Leblanc games with a 40% winrate, you can deduce in 30 games AD leblanc has a winrate of like 70%. Leblanc isn't a good AD champion, but she is a champion that exists in the game, unlike the glorified melee minion the Nasus across from her is. Its also much scarier than Jayce in that matchup because you can gank the Jayce, but you can't gank the leblanc. And early game before you get half an item, all of LB's damage is magic so a lot of player will buy a null-magic as their leblanc opponent comes back with a BF sword. I guarantee that lane is 100x worse than anything Quinn could ever do to Nasus.
69% winrate on PTA Leblanc top in 32 games. According to every analysis I can find, thats the same winrate as playing 5v4 for 15 minutes. AD Leblanc is no joke.
On February 25 2018 05:20 iCanada wrote: Lane bullies are bad for the agency of the players they play against. I think thats the buzzword they are using now.
Only if their so overly oppressive that they remove the possibility of counterplay.
Lane bullies and hard counter matchups can be healthy for the game if there is a large web of viable picks that counter each other. But LoL has never reached that point, instead we either have Renekton blowing on everyone, or Gnar. Also if said bullies have real weaknesses, like terrible team fighting.
Vayne top is hilariously hit or miss, really depends on if enemy has a brain and understands he has to camp top.
On February 25 2018 06:04 iCanada wrote: That champ still exists though, just not as Quinn.
You could just as easily play like AD leblanc or Vayne in the same spot. Speaking of which, everyone needs to play as A leblanc in to Nasus at least once in their lives. Fun game.
Cant the Nasus just do what Sion does in the supposedly "hard" match-ups. Start Dorans Ring with Aery instead of Comet and Biscuit Delivery and turn themself into a "poke melee mage" and meme all over the squishy no sustain ranged champ.
With Time Warp Tonic (get Corrupting Potion on first buy) I guess this is going to be even more oppressive.
If you take out the 30 AP Leblanc games with a 40% winrate, you can deduce in 30 games AD leblanc has a winrate of like 70%. Leblanc isn't a good AD champion, but she is a champion that exists in the game, unlike the glorified melee minion the Nasus across from her is. Its also much scarier than Jayce in that matchup because you can gank the Jayce, but you can't gank the leblanc. And early game before you get half an item, all of LB's damage is magic so a lot of player will buy a null-magic as their leblanc opponent comes back with a BF sword. I guarantee that lane is 100x worse than anything Quinn could ever do to Nasus.
69% winrate on PTA Leblanc top in 32 games. According to every analysis I can find, thats the same winrate as playing 5v4 for 15 minutes. AD Leblanc is no joke.
There was an AD LB Top 1-trick in KR that was like high masters at one time haha.
On February 25 2018 06:04 iCanada wrote: That champ still exists though, just not as Quinn.
You could just as easily play like AD leblanc or Vayne in the same spot. Speaking of which, everyone needs to play as A leblanc in to Nasus at least once in their lives. Fun game.
Cant the Nasus just do what Sion does in the supposedly "hard" match-ups. Start Dorans Ring with Aery instead of Comet and Biscuit Delivery and turn themself into a "poke melee mage" and meme all over the squishy no sustain ranged champ.
With Time Warp Tonic (get Corrupting Potion on first buy) I guess this is going to be even more oppressive.
I think Nasus is a bad example. Nasus doesn't even have a bad laning phase anymore. His ult got so overbuffed that as soon as he hits 6 he can survive most things if he has a brain.
So I think Amumu is actually pretty decent right now against level 3 junglers being played that dont take Wraiths. You can reliably get the first 3 spawns. Easy 2-3 level lead, his early game is pretty strong in these scenarios because you get out of it so fast
New AP items are pretty decent on him too. But he gets railed on otherwise, dont pick him into literally anything that can kill the chickens. Realistically like Kayn / Eve / Shyv / Nid / Reksai / Jax all better even against Jungles that can't clear chickens...
On February 25 2018 16:37 iCanada wrote: So I think Amumu is actually pretty decent right now against level 3 junglers being played that dont take Wraiths. You can reliably get the first 3 spawns. Easy 2-3 level lead, his early game is pretty strong in these scenarios because you get out of it so fast
New AP items are pretty decent on him too. But he gets railed on otherwise, dont pick him into literally anything that can kill the chickens. Realistically like Kayn / Eve / Shyv / Nid / Reksai / Jax all better even against Jungles that can't clear chickens...
I am fairly confused by what you are saying aside from the champs not to pick him into.
Amumu is, generally, always good against people that dont shit on him pre-6, what has changed so that Lee and Elise cant just kill you in your jungle?
On February 25 2018 16:37 iCanada wrote: So I think Amumu is actually pretty decent right now against level 3 junglers being played that dont take Wraiths. You can reliably get the first 3 spawns. Easy 2-3 level lead, his early game is pretty strong in these scenarios because you get out of it so fast
New AP items are pretty decent on him too. But he gets railed on otherwise, dont pick him into literally anything that can kill the chickens. Realistically like Kayn / Eve / Shyv / Nid / Reksai / Jax all better even against Jungles that can't clear chickens...
I am fairly confused by what you are saying aside from the champs not to pick him into.
Amumu is, generally, always good against people that dont shit on him pre-6, what has changed so that Lee and Elise cant just kill you in your jungle?
Chickens strong as hell, whoever gets more Chickens wins the jungle almost all the time. Mumu kills chickens very very well.
On February 25 2018 16:37 iCanada wrote: So I think Amumu is actually pretty decent right now against level 3 junglers being played that dont take Wraiths. You can reliably get the first 3 spawns. Easy 2-3 level lead, his early game is pretty strong in these scenarios because you get out of it so fast
New AP items are pretty decent on him too. But he gets railed on otherwise, dont pick him into literally anything that can kill the chickens. Realistically like Kayn / Eve / Shyv / Nid / Reksai / Jax all better even against Jungles that can't clear chickens...
I am fairly confused by what you are saying aside from the champs not to pick him into.
Amumu is, generally, always good against people that dont shit on him pre-6, what has changed so that Lee and Elise cant just kill you in your jungle?
Chickens strong as hell, whoever gets more Chickens wins the jungle almost all the time. Mumu kills chickens very very well.
Thats pretty much my point. Lol.
So you are saying that I can Amumu into Elise because level advantage?
On February 25 2018 16:37 iCanada wrote: So I think Amumu is actually pretty decent right now against level 3 junglers being played that dont take Wraiths. You can reliably get the first 3 spawns. Easy 2-3 level lead, his early game is pretty strong in these scenarios because you get out of it so fast
New AP items are pretty decent on him too. But he gets railed on otherwise, dont pick him into literally anything that can kill the chickens. Realistically like Kayn / Eve / Shyv / Nid / Reksai / Jax all better even against Jungles that can't clear chickens...
I am fairly confused by what you are saying aside from the champs not to pick him into.
Amumu is, generally, always good against people that dont shit on him pre-6, what has changed so that Lee and Elise cant just kill you in your jungle?
Chickens strong as hell, whoever gets more Chickens wins the jungle almost all the time. Mumu kills chickens very very well.
Thats pretty much my point. Lol.
So you are saying that I can Amumu into Elise because level advantage?
I wouldn't. Elise does chickens ok. I don't think Elise just kills you btw, she too overnerfed. That said I havn't actually played the matchups, could be wrong.
I would pick him into like Trundle, Kindred, Shaco, Rengar, Warwick, Graves, Volibear... if I had a duo I'd pick him Khazix as well TBH. So thats like 37% of all jungle picks. I've only played it into Warwick and Rengar, but felt alright. I first ran into it playing as WW, thought I would just ram it up his butthole, but its actually hard to punish because Amumu gets a pretty big XP lead.
I'm pretty sure that start only works in silver soloq because all of those champs will just kill you, especially if the enemy midlaner has half a brain. On top of that he shouldn't get a big xp lead off it if you play it properly either. It's often not even the right thing to do on champs that are stronger 1v1 than Amumu, plus at the end of the day you're playing Amumu instead of Sejuani.
On February 25 2018 18:08 Fildun wrote: I'm pretty sure that start only works in silver soloq because all of those champs will just kill you, especially if the enemy midlaner has half a brain. On top of that he shouldn't get a big xp lead off it if you play it properly either. It's often not even the right thing to do on champs that are stronger 1v1 than Amumu, plus at the end of the day you're playing Amumu instead of Sejuani.
What start exactly?
You either get their chickens because they are making a level 3 play and are way ahead from chickens or they dont make plays than snowball the game before you're in it. I'm not sure what your point is.
They can only just kill you if you don't start opposite to them, and if your laners don't rotate / have priority.
I agree, Sej is 100% better. But Amumu is more fun. Just saying there are a lot of meta junglers right now that dont take Raptors right away, and Raptors are hella good, and Amumu is really good at taking them. I never said anything about some sort of cookie cutter start. I just think this is the most viable Mumu has been in a long time. Solid T3 with a decent amount of winnable matchups.
With start I mean first jungle clear path, and given you're talking about doing this during the level 3 plays the other jungler might make I assume you're taking the enemy chickens during your first clear. If so I'd like to know what that clear exactly is. Now if I read correctly you're taking them again later on, but we'll leave that be for now.
Now in order for them to not kill you, you have to be blue side and your laners have to have priority, which is approximately 10% of games.
On top of that, given that the enemy jungler wasn't planning on taking the chickens anyway you're not really setting them behind, given that they get catchup xp if they do get the second spawn. You're also losing all gank, counter-gank and river pressure for the first four and a half minutes of the game.
Also, jungle matchups are a meme and don't mean anything.
I feel like you're reading a lot more into what I said than what I actually said. I'm not advocating some fixed route.
A lot of junglers buff-camp-buff-gank with no thought in soloqueue, and a lot of these junglers. This is very frequently this means you can safely just interrupt your route and insta-take enemy raptors on Mummy. Getting the extra raptors instead of a different camp gives you a big lead which ameliorates your early game weakness. Thats all I'm saying. I'm not saying go run at their raptors blindly, I'm saying the fact that 37% of soloQ players having a high chance of ignoring raptors then showing on the map means you often just get raptors.
Mumu has no counter-gank or river pressure regardless.
And catchup xp or no, raptors are a big deal. Its why Warwick isn't the best jungler in the game, and definitely why no one ever picks him in competitive. Usually barring huge kill snowballs or plays, the jungler that gets the most raptors is just the biggest and has more influence over the game. Thats the whole jungle role right now, a raptor mini-game.
is spellbinder working as intended atm? i had a game where my spellbinder charges rapidly hit 100 while i was sitting in base and walking to lane. literally climbing like 3 charges/second. other times im actually in fights and the charges dont go above like 30 something
Ok. More math results. The rework changes a lot of items in a way that heightens some specific strengths at the expense of reducing AP and other pure damage outputs. It also changes a lot of build paths so items build out of one highly efficient item and one les efficient item.
The upshot of this is that for champs with high AP ratios the best build path (in terms of maximizing damage and gold efficiency at each point along the path) has changed. You don’t want to rush your first item anymore. I think you want to build the more efficient competent of your first item, then build a needlessly large rod, then finish your first item. The NLR is just a much better damage item then less efficient components or even most completed items post rework. Then after you have your first item you buy a second NLR and get hat. Hat is pretty much always the most efficient second item for damage now.
Edit: rereading that I’m now wondering if you should get two NLRs before finishing first item. I’ll go back and double check math in that.
Hat is pretty much always the most efficient second item for damage now.
I'm pretty sure this was not intended, if raw AP is better than all of the other items that give other stats, then DCap rework is going to be reverted or nerfed.
On February 27 2018 02:40 JimmiC wrote: I've been seeing a lot of mids buying two NLR first, I wondered why, your math will be interesting.
Ok I’ve run the numbers and the answer is yes. If you are trying to maximize your damage with each buy, or your burst damage efficiency (damage dealt by one full spell rotation divided by gold cost of all items) then you buy 1 component, then 2 NLRs, then you finish first item, then you get hat.
So You might buy hextech revolver, then NLR then NLR, then upgrade the revolver to a protobelt, then merge the NLRs into a hat. Somewhere in there you also get sorcery shoes.
Note that this all assumes you are trying to maximize burst damage and maintain kill threat with each purchase (ie no power troughs). If a champ has other urgent needs those could dictate different items. A champ that goes oom would prioritize mana pool or mana regeneration over the AP. Likewise someone with terrible cool downs might need CDR or someone with super short cool downs might be able to stack spellbinder.
I would bet that they probably want to balance it so it prevents around the same amount of damage, but with the support in the center of a visable shield circle. Make moments of power more visable. Make the consequences of play choices more visable. I bet long term they think it will attract more players to the support role.
its a passive, percent based effect. Very low-visibility and not viscerally satisfying which is not going to convince the people who avoid support to try it out.
If anything it feels like moving away from instant oshit shield (usable by all support) and more diver assistance. Not a real big "support" item, but something more along the lines of stoneplate that helps your team when you all pile on.
removes a ton of kiting from the equation so ranged supports and peeling supports don't like it as much.
I'm with kaneh, i think hype shield feels way more satisfying even if the damage reduction stronger. A good DR shield will be barely noticeable will just look like they less fed and your ADC didn't get low, whereas a clutch locket has a very visceral "wow that shield just saved the adcs life."
It's kind of like if you're an IT guy you get more credit if you work 2 weeks of overtime after some dumbass opens xXxT0ta11y_n0t-cryptol0ck3RxXx.exe on an email attachment than if you just make it so .exe files don't go through your email server...
If they really wanted something cool, powerful and obvious for aegis, have it be a skillshot anti-projecticle. Like you target it to intercept a projectile and it nullifies it.
I assume they're doing it because of the insane synergy between redemption/ardent and locket. This way the bonus to heals and shields wouldn't proc as far as I can gather from the text.
I don't agree with their decision and I like the idea of making a separate item that has this ability. But I understand where their logic comes from.
Was listening to “The Dive” on the way to work this morning and the hosts seemed to think that Banner of Command plus the new baron buff was a really big deal. I haven’t seen much banner in any of my games. Have you guys seen it used, or tried it recently?
On March 02 2018 03:16 General_Winter wrote: Was listening to “The Dive” on the way to work this morning and the hosts seemed to think that Banner of Command plus the new baron buff was a really big deal. I haven’t seen much banner in any of my games. Have you guys seen it used, or tried it recently?
It's pretty good. An upgraded cannon shred towers with baron buff now and being immune to magic makes it nearly impossible to kill in the siege. Banner was a super fringe item before now it's a solid option.
The issue is if they nerf the numbers it kills the rune for junglers when it's mostly fine there. Sure there's some sweet spot they can find for it even though it's a bit overtuned right now. So CD hits the laners taking it while keeping it ok in jungle.
On March 02 2018 05:17 Numy wrote: The issue is if they nerf the numbers it kills the rune for junglers when it's mostly fine there. Sure there's some sweet spot they can find for it even though it's a bit overtuned right now. So CD hits the laners taking it while keeping it ok in jungle.
I don't think it's ok in the jungle either. How does a Nautilus outduel Reksai? That's silly. It's like 4k worth of stats at level 3 with the same nearly the same damage as electrocute on a seventh of the CD.
As an aside... I think Reksai probably should take aftershock as well instead of pta/electrocute.
On March 02 2018 03:16 General_Winter wrote: Was listening to “The Dive” on the way to work this morning and the hosts seemed to think that Banner of Command plus the new baron buff was a really big deal. I haven’t seen much banner in any of my games. Have you guys seen it used, or tried it recently?
It's pretty good. An upgraded cannon shred towers with baron buff now and being immune to magic makes it nearly impossible to kill in the siege. Banner was a super fringe item before now it's a solid option.
The issue I see is that most soloQ teams cant defend a baron push anyways.
I just think that until there is ingame voicechat soloQ will generally mean very little for pro play. Like, lets assume NALCS is a 10 on communication, SoloQ without voice chat is a 1, if they added voicechat it would be like a 5-6.
On March 02 2018 15:13 cLutZ wrote: I just think that until there is ingame voicechat soloQ will generally mean very little for pro play. Like, lets assume NALCS is a 10 on communication, SoloQ without voice chat is a 1, if they added voicechat it would be like a 5-6.
High elo players use voice chat at times. Does not seem to do that much. I dont see how it matters in any way what low elo players do.
I'd argue that's mostly fine as is the main difference is there is nothing between pub and pro play. I remember inhouse leagues being a big portion of 1.6, Dota and my CoD days. A way to bridge the gap between a scrim and a more serious competition. While it doesn't differ that much to pub play in function it differs mostly in attitude. People were there to play like it was a proper team. Not all these games had Voip options or even used voip options back then. Sometimes we'd have maybe 1/2 people on TS for the inhouse. It's just people went in there with a fundamentally different mindset so it worked out. Voice chat helps but it doesn't make people change their attitude going in. Comp OW for example is the worst experience I have ever had online gaming in a very long time and it has built in Voip.
Ladder play has made finding games so much easier that inhouse concept has kind of died. Kind of miss it but since I'm not really being a competitive gamer anymore I doubt I'd play much. I know OW has IRC bot still for local scene.
What I think voice van do is reduce toxicity. People are more hesitant to be abusive to people they actually talk to. But then again if they do that in voice it is extra annoying.
Just nearly died to aftershock Nautilus as Reksai at level 3. That's just not okay. They need to look at that scaling because it's frankly ridiculous.
To be fair, Naut does quite a lot of damage early, combined with his CC and red he's a pretty dope champ. Aftershock means he has legit burst potential, but he still has massive weaknesses so it kind of evens out imo.
Riot talking about nerfing jungle sustain and clear speed.
Apparently it's ok for junglers to be pigeonholed into full clearing to not fall horribly behind, but not okay for top laners to ward at 2:45 in order to not die to a stock standard gank timing. It would be horrible for the agency of a top laner to have to ward.
Realistically is a buff to my play style, but I just don't see the logic there. It's not even like warding makes you lose anything... everyone gets ward's and they are free.
On March 03 2018 03:57 iCanada wrote: Riot talking about nerfing jungle sustain and clear speed.
Apparently it's ok for junglers to be pigeonholed into full clearing to not fall horribly behind, but not okay for top laners to ward at 2:45 in order to not die to a stock standard gank timing. It would be horrible for the agency of a top laner to have to ward.
Realistically is a buff to my play style, but I just don't see the logic there. It's not even like warding makes you lose anything... everyone gets ward's and they are free.
On March 03 2018 03:57 iCanada wrote: Riot talking about nerfing jungle sustain and clear speed.
Apparently it's ok for junglers to be pigeonholed into full clearing to not fall horribly behind, but not okay for top laners to ward at 2:45 in order to not die to a stock standard gank timing. It would be horrible for the agency of a top laner to have to ward.
Realistically is a buff to my play style, but I just don't see the logic there. It's not even like warding makes you lose anything... everyone gets ward's and they are free.
On March 02 2018 19:58 Redox wrote: What I think voice van do is reduce toxicity. People are more hesitant to be abusive to people they actually talk to. But then again if they do that in voice it is extra annoying.
It goes both ways. Some people are less abusive. But as I found out when my wife and I played on Xbox Live, some people get way, way more abusive in certain situations.
Opt-out doesn't solve the problem either, because you don't want to be pressuring people to choose between putting up with teenage edgelords or being at a competitive disadvantage. If 4/5 of the team is on voice chat that last person is going to be crazy isolated.
I personally would not use voice chat with the league player base. I'm less worried about the toxic kids, I'm pretty sure I'll be more annoyed by the average player on voice.
I have always enjoyed my voice chat experience in just about every game. Indeed, I wish there was both intra- and inter- team voice chat in league (also Starcraft).
Troll Off-meta jungle pick of the day that works: Irelia.
He clear is actually solid as fuck. You hit Level 3 at 2:40 w/ Buff wolves buff start, and you're good at killing wraiths.
Your ganks kinda hit or miss though, its weird because your jungle clear too healthy to reliably get a stun from equilibrium strike. And your skirmishing is kinda shit. So essentially you are a poor mans jax who can't jump away as well as forward and has a more pronounced power curve (slightly weaker early, stronger later). But fun champ, 10/10 would smurf as again.
On March 02 2018 19:58 Redox wrote: What I think voice van do is reduce toxicity. People are more hesitant to be abusive to people they actually talk to. But then again if they do that in voice it is extra annoying.
It goes both ways. Some people are less abusive. But as I found out when my wife and I played on Xbox Live, some people get way, way more abusive in certain situations.
Well reactions to women in voice chat is a special kind of problem. Now that I think about it it is probably one of the biggest issues with general voice chat, sadly.
CS:GO has voice chat and I was more comfortable playing pubs full of Russians I didn't understand than normal games with people speaking English. For some reason I feel obliged to tryhard when I can hear my teammates' voices, which makes it harder for me to relax. I definitely wouldn't use voice chat if it was implemented in League.
I play on EUW, but I bet EUNE would get even more toxic if it had voice chat.
On March 04 2018 20:06 Sent. wrote: CS:GO has voice chat and I was more comfortable playing pubs full of Russians I didn't understand than normal games with people speaking English. For some reason I feel obliged to tryhard when I can hear my teammates' voices, which makes it harder for me to relax. I definitely wouldn't use voice chat if it was implemented in League.
I play on EUW, but I bet EUNE would get even more toxic if it had voice chat.
Tbh I've found EUW to be worse than EUNE. On EUNE people are like "fuck you" toxic on EUW there's a lot more bigtory and racism.
I haven't noticed it myself. Mostly just people tilting super hard super early. I can't understand anything outside of English so when people start typing I luckily can just ignore it. Otherwise quickly muting helps.
Rakan/Xayah lane is so busted in yoloQ almost as free LP as juggernaut Skarner. It's such a fucking stupid design how much stronger they get together. 11 games 11 wins.............
On March 05 2018 23:16 Gahlo wrote: Supposedly there's a bug with their interaction that makes the combo stronger than it should be and will be fixed next patch.
Would make sense. Currently their level 1-3 is mind-numblingly strong.
On March 05 2018 22:01 Jek wrote: Rakan/Xayah lane is so busted in yoloQ almost as free LP as juggernaut Skarner. It's such a fucking stupid design how much stronger they get together. 11 games 11 wins.............
I find this interesting as someone with a high winrate on Rakan because I personally feel like I tend to lose more when my adc picks Xayah, because more often than not they don't actually know how to play her and just like muh synergy. It could just be a few bad apples clouding my memory but I've ranted many a time to my friends about how much I fucking hate locking in Rakan before my adc picks and have gone as far as no longer hovering Rakan until after they lock in if I'm thinking about it.
On March 05 2018 22:01 Jek wrote: Rakan/Xayah lane is so busted in yoloQ almost as free LP as juggernaut Skarner. It's such a fucking stupid design how much stronger they get together. 11 games 11 wins.............
I find this interesting as someone with a high winrate on Rakan because I personally feel like I tend to lose more when my adc picks Xayah, because more often than not they don't actually know how to play her and just like muh synergy. It could just be a few bad apples clouding my memory but I've ranted many a time to my friends about how much I fucking hate locking in Rakan before my adc picks and have gone as far as no longer hovering Rakan until after they lock in if I'm thinking about it.
I only go Rakan if they insta-picked Xayah, never pick him before the adc if they spend time to think or I pick first I just go Janna or Alistar.
On March 05 2018 22:01 Jek wrote: Rakan/Xayah lane is so busted in yoloQ almost as free LP as juggernaut Skarner. It's such a fucking stupid design how much stronger they get together. 11 games 11 wins.............
Funny, I was thinking the same thing today. They pretty much cover every single desirably ability a bot lane can have, only real problem is that Xayah has no gap closer. They chain CC so incredibly well, and it's also massively AoE, so the potential to carry the whole game by yourself from bot is far easier than any other duo setup. I really like playing Xayah too, she's not really busted by herself, but her synergy with some supports is just crazy good.
Before 8.5 hits this is your final chance to build bandit items in the top lane. I think frost fang Vlad into watchers is pretty great. You get so much gold without having to really do any work for it.
I'm glad that they're making all of those loot changes, but I'm a little upset it wasn't the case already as my hextech annie shard will forever sit in my loot as I'll never ever get the OE required to unlock it
It is nice that they are reverting one of the weirdest reworks ever. I havent ever really understood the motivation the couple of times that they have intentionally made kits slower (the Zed R change, Gragas Q change, LB, etc).
also wtf at that ryze nerf? they chunked his damage like crazy so noobs can last hit with e better? wtf???? edit: nvm. for a sec i thought it was a 50% reduction on overload procs rather than the actual spread. phew
Bad - Samsung Ez & J4 - up until now, champs never had more than one worlds skin, it was nice to see that different champs get to be at the forefront, now some of that magic feels gone if this goes through
On March 07 2018 07:06 cLutZ wrote: It is nice that they are reverting one of the weirdest reworks ever. I havent ever really understood the motivation the couple of times that they have intentionally made kits slower (the Zed R change, Gragas Q change, LB, etc).
In the case of Zed, I think it was justified because it meant that Zed could outplay pretty much everyone so long as you had the mechanics and the ping. When Zed could ult you, hit E and then recast ult faster than every champs AA animation and half the game's abilities, it meant he was just ridiculously slippery.
There was no need for the other champs to be slowed down though, because they were already decently dodgeable. Maybe LB was a bit too fast, but she only needed slight tweaks, not the rework.
On March 07 2018 07:06 cLutZ wrote: It is nice that they are reverting one of the weirdest reworks ever. I havent ever really understood the motivation the couple of times that they have intentionally made kits slower (the Zed R change, Gragas Q change, LB, etc).
In the case of Zed, I think it was justified because it meant that Zed could outplay pretty much everyone so long as you had the mechanics and the ping. When Zed could ult you, hit E and then recast ult faster than every champs AA animation and half the game's abilities, it meant he was just ridiculously slippery.
There was no need for the other champs to be slowed down though, because they were already decently dodgeable. Maybe LB was a bit too fast, but she only needed slight tweaks, not the rework.
I mean, but that "Zed Outplay" isn't the outplay. The outplay is getting you low enough that Ult+1 Spell kills you (R-E at max level is essentially a 245 + 216% AD, roughly equal to 144 AP, pre-mitigation combo).
If that is happening from 80% the champ is just OP, but if you are complaining about getting assassinated by an assassin really fast when you are at 30%, umm ok.
Zed has been OP, but all those times were when his Shurikens were too good at killing minions while poking, or when the items fell in his favor.
The shurikens were made slower and they also couldn't miss because either they were too fast or specifically there W being basically instant made them virtually point'n'click undodgeable abilities. So yeah he just jumps in and Es and gets out, but he's also going to land a double Q on your face and still has W to go back in if needed after dodging all your skillshot reactions (that or he doesn't because you don't react, which is fine with him anyway).
EPT
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