EPT[Patch 7.24] Snowdown General Discussion - Page 2
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Patch 7.24b is live. Small tweaks on various champions. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
edit: Since it seems you don't know Kayn workings or I'm explaining it horribly let's cut the misunderstanding and get on the same page. You start the game in base Kayn. Then after that every melee enemy hero you damage gets you Red orbs. Every ranged enemy you damage gets you blue. The impact of the orbs themselves is not a fixed number nor is it linear. Instead it ramps up over time. That means early orbs are less impactful than later orbs. This own it's own would be fine but there's another issue later The orbs you gather are shown by this little white circle above your hero portrait. Now the tricky part here is that you don't get told what form you are building up to. Instead it's just a generic circle that increases with orb gathering. If you add in the fact that orbs are non-linear then you got an issue here. You can spend most of the early game gaining orbs for the transformation you want only to enter into a teamfight just before transforming and instantly getting the other orb. You also have no way of knowing what exact form you are getting if the game is scrappy early on. This is due again to how the orbs value change over time and how the information on the forms is obscured. This is what I have an issue with. From a design perspective I don't really see how it makes sense to obscure this information. What value does it add to the hero? edit: It's made worse by this comment from the hero designer | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
this patch is basically "so close yet so far" They correctly identify some outliers but then don't fix the problem at all. Or they just randomly murk more melee champs (j4/xin) that always feel perfectly fair to play against because melee champions are easy to deal with in this game. Meanwhile fleet footwork gets a massive buff and the impact of all this frontloaded high damage in ranged vs melee interactions has yet to be addressed. They really are shameless or clueless, pick one | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On December 06 2017 22:20 DarkCore wrote: I was surprised too, there's a lot more concerning champions in the game than Jarvan. I personally think Kayn taking forever to change forms in a slow game is fine, because he's a high damage assassin jungler and fits a niche just like Shaco. There should be a punishment if he just sits in the jungle and farms, or doesn't make plays on the map. It's not like he is completely useless without changing forms. He's only a high damage assassin if you build him that way and take blue form. But getting blue form most of the time is kind of trolling. Might as well take revive/cleanse as summoners. It's also silly to compare him to shaco for a number of reasons. Namely, he has far greater warning time for his ganks. Secondly, before he gets a transform if you use Q to gap close and don't get damage off prior to a transformation you literally do zero damage. Third, shaco has gank assist CC. Shaci also wins most 2v2s because of how un-telegraphed he is, combined with the stealth and gap closer. Finally, shaco is probably the least efficient jungler in the game at farming, while Kayn is one of the fastest farmers in the game. And he's pretty close to useless before the transform after around level 7 to 9 because his stats per level, ability damage per level, and ability scaling in base form are low as balls. Rapidly you just can't really 2v2 and need to be patient for odd man plays or you're pretty much just inting. You have room to force plays a bit early game but you'll never get transformation that early unless you're playing like a league below your actual skill. Kayn is good if you can hard invade and skirmish with support, just like w kindred. If you can't then you're just fucked, like atleast kindred can just farm for late, but Kayn actively needs to start participating in fights where he knows he's weak. It feels bad. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On December 06 2017 12:44 Frolossus wrote: there are plenty of boosted animals in soloq. surely some are monkeys Could you imagine it? A legit ape playing league and perhaps being better than the average bronze guy. This is the world i wanna live in. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On December 07 2017 00:48 Sponkz wrote: Could you imagine it? A legit ape playing league and perhaps being better than the average bronze guy. This is the world i wanna live in. Today I played my first two ranked games in months, I could put those monkeys to shame. Monkeys at least have a brain, I legit face walked into a fed Vayne. Still won both games though  Did Karthus really need AP ratio buffs? I never considered the damage from his ult to be lacking, it still scales incredibly well into the lategame, now he can blow you up with one ability even easier. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
In addition to potentially being legit good, it also has awesome cheese application. Get a leash on blue, smite, then run direct to mid lane and hit binding and pool on a laner that is probably still level one. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On December 07 2017 00:09 VayneAuthority wrote: as if kayn players would make team based decisions anyway lol, the designer doesn't even understand the point of his own champ. Kayn is literally one of the most selfish/carry orientated junglers in the game right now. this patch is basically "so close yet so far" They correctly identify some outliers but then don't fix the problem at all. Or they just randomly murk more melee champs (j4/xin) that always feel perfectly fair to play against because melee champions are easy to deal with in this game. Meanwhile fleet footwork gets a massive buff and the impact of all this frontloaded high damage in ranged vs melee interactions has yet to be addressed. They really are shameless or clueless, pick one Jarvan Jungle OP.GG: WR 1st, PR 2nd Champion.gg: WR 2nd, PR 1st Xin OP.GG WR 2nds, PR 15th Champion.gg: WR 1st, PR 6th They aren't hitting random melee champions "just because." | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On December 07 2017 08:27 Gahlo wrote: Jarvan Jungle OP.GG: WR 1st, PR 2nd Champion.gg: WR 2nd, PR 1st Xin OP.GG WR 2nds, PR 15th Champion.gg: WR 1st, PR 6th They aren't hitting random melee champions "just because." Ya if you want a "just because" case, I'd offer up Malzahar. I don't even play the champion, but still confused why they decided they just HAD to nerf his ult. Maybe it's just because I'm a shit-tier Silver scrub but I've never felt like a Malzahar was particularly unfair in any game of league I've played in my life.... | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8937 Posts
seems like a pretty dumb nerf when you already needed to burn flash to get a solo kill anyway. probably wont even get the kill anyway with the damage nerf now | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
He would definitely be in the running for easiest champ to play in any role at the moment. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
Seriously people, do some minor research or critical thinking. I will say that hitting both the base damage and the ratio as hard as they did was probably not a good idea. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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