Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
On September 13 2017 05:46 Ansibled wrote: I don't understand why Ornn is disabled, it's been out for ages.
Super strange to me. I think Meddler said that while he's been out for awhile he hasn't be enabled for pro play so there's zero competitive games to test his balance on. Overly cautious but I guess after they intentional fucked up so hard that one worlds they swung the caution pendulum pretty far.
Ah yes, Trist and Rakan nerfs, think we're going to see a bit less play from them. They're still good champs, but those Trist E nerfs are pretty massive.
Is Riot buffing Ryze W ratios in the hope that he'll get played a lot again at Worlds? They legit doubled the damage of the ability in the late game.
I think they are buffing Ryze because he hasn't seen pro play and his soloQ winrate is an abomination. Another rework is probably incoming.
Edit, also, new Xin seems ok, but not that much different. Will obviously still steamroll teams if he gets a lead, but with no tenacity bonus on the ult I feel like the same Xin problems will happen.
On September 13 2017 06:01 DarkCore wrote: Ah yes, Trist and Rakan nerfs, think we're going to see a bit less play from them. They're still good champs, but those Trist E nerfs are pretty massive.
Is Riot buffing Ryze W ratios in the hope that he'll get played a lot again at Worlds? They legit doubled the damage of the ability in the late game.
Rakan really deserves to be nerfed more, that champion is absolutely insane. especially with his ultimate.
I appreciate that his shield isn't that strong, nor is his heal, but his w into dash back or w into ult are complete gamechangers. He functions like leona except theres minimal risk to his dash because be can just jump out after proccing CotC
On September 13 2017 19:30 PrinceXizor wrote: Thats technically screwing new players even more. giving them low value shards intentionally.
Makes me even more sure they are trying to squeeze more money out of new accounts..
I don't know wtf you are taking about, I was talking about where it says getting "unlucky" and getting a starter champ shard for your level up will probably come with a 2nd shard to keep a reasonable minimum value to a level up.
Riot: we'll give new players lower value shards but make sure they end up with the same value overall You: it's nice that new players won't get screwed PX: giving new players lower value shards makes me even more sure that Riot is trying to screw new players
I mean it was super likely it was a nerf, and I personally dislike randomness being added. But I accept that I'm not getting what I want in that department because the masses can't control themselves around lootboxes. I was just concerned if rng could screw me on staying ahead of the release schedule, but the FAQ basically made it clear I'm fine.
The lootbox defenders in that thread you linked annoy me so much holy
i find lootboxes unethical and scummy especially when in some games its getting to the point u cant buy parts of the game unless you participate in rng fiesta , it encourages and exploits gambling addiction in kids i wouldn't mind if somebody made law to stop this nonsense.
I hate loot boxes with a passion. I still remember watching this video of a 12yo kid opening a hundred TF2 crates with his birthday money, only to get absolutely nothing and looking absolutely devastated. Gambling is one thing when it involves adults - if you're grown and still pissing away your money, whatever, it's your life choices. But when your primary audience is under 18, it should 100% be illegal.
I guess it is a small comfort that there are only 4 loot-box exclusive skins, and that you can disenchant your crappy loot box winnings into the good stuff. That's better than TF2 and MtG booster packs, at least. But I still don't like it.
Fine tuning of the system aside I am disappointed with this change. To be frank I don't play much anymore but I specifically remember reflecting on all the F2P games I've ever played and thinking "well at least League has IP and First Win rather than the crap that is loot boxes/card packs and stupid quests that force me to play the game in ways I don't want to play". I'm sick of it.
Outside of the ~8 months after legion came out I've maxed out on free lootbox consumption, and I have 3 gems. I have, since I began playing wanted pax Sivir. But having to gamble to get it is just so disappointing to me, I could probably afford it, but I don't want to encourage this type of behavior from riot. I'd rather just pay $50 up front than support making more loot exclusive skins.
Kids aren't going to become gambling addicts, but they can still spend a lot of money on something they don't understand. A gambling addict is someone who plays lottery every week, but a kid buying 20 bucks worth of crates a few times just to have a chance at getting a skin because they think 'next time I'll get it for sure' is a problem, especially if they keep trying.
The cards anecdote is a good example of that. I spent a lot of money on Pokemon cards as a kid, it must be a few hundred dollars. For a kid's amusement, that's pretty insane.
The CSGO YouTube gambling fiasco is a good example of how exploitable children are.
Actually, psychology wise, spending RP vs. Physical dollars is very different. Particularly for youths.
So true. RP is basically an in game currency that Riot has set the value of, and you don't get a real feel for how much it's worth because there's nothing to compare it to. If they wanted to, they could set the prices of everything to actual currency, but I'm pretty sure if you saw Pulsefire Ezreal for 8 dollars you'd hesitate. Idk how much that 400 RP I've had lying around on my account for months is actually worth, but every now and then I get tempted to use it to buy a skin I'll never even use.
On September 14 2017 09:22 Frolossus wrote: my understanding behind RP is that the main reason to have the system is that riot gets your money when you buy RP not when you spend the RP
It's also why they give you "bonus RP" when you buy it in larger amounts, which often sits around unless you think ahead with what you want to buy.
God. Sometimes I hate the way Riot balance champions. Lucian notes might as well have read, "Corki is the only adc type champion we will allow as a strong pick in mid".
Some displacement abilities work weird. My guess is that Alistar headbutt is coded so that you travel the distance from where you were when he started channel or somewhere during it. So Ori flew exceptionally far.
Either that or displacements got added together. Like Ali headbutted her and half of Lee kick changed direction because Alistar headbutt tends to override most other forms of displacement.
On September 15 2017 22:32 Ansibled wrote: I thought knockups cancelled each other or something, shouldn't Fizz ult stop it? I didn't even see Alistar W at first though so lol.
The newest displacement ignores all others before it. There's a period of time after the fish drops off the target and the ult knocks enemies up. Alistar had incredibly poor timing in that he moved Ori out of the way during that time.
I'm not sure how it works exactly. Could also be buffering thing. Like Alistar most likely put the input in before lee kicked and it all aligned super weirdly.
On September 15 2017 22:39 PrinceXizor wrote: Lee kick -> alistar failing his combo -> Fizz Fish changing direction slightly and extending the knock back at the end.
Lee kick, which doesn't matter in the long run. Fish latches to Ori. Fish drops off Ori to do damage. Alistar headbutts, knocking Ori before Fizz's ult does damage. Fizz ult comes up, but now Ori isn't on the knockup area and is in the area around it that pushes people away and slows them, hence why Ori has the tiretrack slow effect following her. Since she got pushed away from the ult in a straight line, the knockback from the ult has the same direction.
Seriously some of the things on this site are hilarious, definitely worth laughing at for 5 minutes imo. It gives you weird pieces of advice, like
CONCLUSION You're in all the important fights and you're putting out the damage your team needs from you, but your positioning is lacking. Having poor positioning can be risky and you can quickly turn a good fight into a bad one.
On September 16 2017 21:15 Ansibled wrote: I'm a huge fan of meme stats websites, and this one just happens to be endorsed by Team Liquid. https://mobalytics.gg/tl/
Seriously some of the things on this site are hilarious, definitely worth laughing at for 5 minutes imo. It gives you weird pieces of advice, like
CONCLUSION You're in all the important fights and you're putting out the damage your team needs from you, but your positioning is lacking. Having poor positioning can be risky and you can quickly turn a good fight into a bad one.
The suggestions are pretty interesting. I need to build more damage items, I guess it's time for that sexy Ludens/Lichbane Janna/Lulu/Nami/Soraka or Infinity Edge Maokai/Malphite/Galio/Poppy!
You got it all wrong, tank Soraka is the way to go. People will always try to focus you because you're a cancer champ, but little do they know it was your plan all along. #Koreanadvice
What do people think of the Veigar PBE changes? The CD decrease for W sounds pretty cool.
On September 16 2017 23:15 DarkCore wrote: You got it all wrong, tank Soraka is the way to go. People will always try to focus you because you're a cancer champ, but little do they know it was your plan all along. #Koreanadvice
What do people think of the Veigar PBE changes? The CD decrease for W sounds pretty cool.
So ehhh. Considering you already want to build CDR on him lategame Veigar is going to turn into a cute little meteor machine gun? Certainly going to be interesting to see, always loved him.
I wonder how much damage Janna will get with her new passive and homeguards active. The teleport assassin Janna!
Is Ezreal jungle really that strong? Watching KR Challenger games, he's legit in every single game, and tends to do extremely well, or at least breaks even. Feels like his Q buffs totally missed the mark.
On September 16 2017 21:15 Ansibled wrote: I'm a huge fan of meme stats websites, and this one just happens to be endorsed by Team Liquid. https://mobalytics.gg/tl/
Seriously some of the things on this site are hilarious, definitely worth laughing at for 5 minutes imo. It gives you weird pieces of advice, like
CONCLUSION You're in all the important fights and you're putting out the damage your team needs from you, but your positioning is lacking. Having poor positioning can be risky and you can quickly turn a good fight into a bad one.
i've been in the beta for like a month now and not found it useful
On September 17 2017 05:40 DarkCore wrote: Is Ezreal jungle really that strong? Watching KR Challenger games, he's legit in every single game, and tends to do extremely well, or at least breaks even. Feels like his Q buffs totally missed the mark.
people say hes graves on steroids, all i know is his clear is ridiculous and hes ganking top lvl3 at 2:40
The single most important League stat remains out there just begging to be analyzed. I have emailed both champion.gg and lolalytics about this and neither have implemented it.
It's very simple: item win rates normalized against your gold lead at that time. How do your choice of items affect your true win rate, measured against a baseline of your expected win rate given your gold lead?
So for example, Mejai's has a high win rate. But usually you build Mejai's when up, say, 1000g on your lane opponent. You already have a high win rate in those situations. Does Mejai's actually make you more likely to win, or less likely to win?
On September 17 2017 05:40 DarkCore wrote: Is Ezreal jungle really that strong? Watching KR Challenger games, he's legit in every single game, and tends to do extremely well, or at least breaks even. Feels like his Q buffs totally missed the mark.
people say hes graves on steroids, all i know is his clear is ridiculous and hes ganking top lvl3 at 2:40
He's pretty stupidly strong and can do really dumb things early on. He can even do some annoying shit like contest opposing buffs if he goes buff to buff into contest/steal opponent's buff if they bother to do a single camp in between. His 2:00 minute gank of mid with red to chunk out mid is really annoying too. He's really strong at boots 2 and jungle item as well as boots 2, sheen, jungle item. I hope get gets reverted because he's just annoying as shit without requiring the play skill a Lee Sin requires.
On September 17 2017 05:40 DarkCore wrote: Is Ezreal jungle really that strong? Watching KR Challenger games, he's legit in every single game, and tends to do extremely well, or at least breaks even. Feels like his Q buffs totally missed the mark.
His kit is pretty much a carry jungler's wet dream. Think of him like Shaco except he can easily farm himself back in the game and is an ADC in lategame.
His biggest strength IMO is his level 2 gank with red and his insanely strong earlygame dueling, making him able to casually chunk/kill the midlaner and have time to invade.
"Your ability to gain gold in the early game is almost as good as legendary solo queue player Apdo/Dopa." B-b-baka random website, why do you say things like that
GET DICKED EUW SQUAD MY EARLY PRESSURE HAS NO RIVAL + Show Spoiler +
lol my toughness says i have an inability to play from behind, then i go to consistency and it says im great at playing from behind and creating comebacks. consistency indeed /sarcasm.
ezreal jungle is basically nidalee with better dueling power, there's an IMT sub playing nothing but ezreal/nid jg and hes climbing like crazy on korean server. It brings back the same stupid problem "why can this guy force me out of jungle early and hes also going to outscale me"
Oh yeah, I've seen that IMT sub on streams too, I thought he was pretty good (but it's Ez jungle, and the champ just seems a bit too strong...).
I have a feeling we're going to see a lot of Ezreal this Worlds, and not in the position you'd have expected a month ago. Just feels really wrong seeing him in the jungle. Either that or he's going to get perma banned.
On September 19 2017 02:39 DarkCore wrote: Oh yeah, I've seen that IMT sub on streams too, I thought he was pretty good (but it's Ez jungle, and the champ just seems a bit too strong...).
I have a feeling we're going to see a lot of Ezreal this Worlds, and not in the position you'd have expected a month ago. Just feels really wrong seeing him in the jungle. Either that or he's going to get perma banned.
At the very least ban it from the KR teams as they seem the most used to it.
On September 18 2017 22:24 VayneAuthority wrote: ezreal jungle is basically nidalee with better dueling power, there's an IMT sub playing nothing but ezreal/nid jg and hes climbing like crazy on korean server. It brings back the same stupid problem "why can this guy force me out of jungle early and hes also going to outscale me"
In my head, I was trying to compare Ezreal with Graves and I felt like Graves was better during the previous patches. But I think Ezreal and Nid is a more apt comparison.
On September 18 2017 22:24 VayneAuthority wrote: ezreal jungle is basically nidalee with better dueling power, there's an IMT sub playing nothing but ezreal/nid jg and hes climbing like crazy on korean server. It brings back the same stupid problem "why can this guy force me out of jungle early and hes also going to outscale me"
In my head, I was trying to compare Ezreal with Graves and I felt like Graves was better during the previous patches. But I think Ezreal and Nid is a more apt comparison.
Nidalee could (can?) clear stupidly fast and Ezreal can't so they end up being pretty different I think.
Well I just got my first honor capsule and it's Ezreal shard. I started to experiment with jungle recently. Riot clearly telling me something. Also the "Your Shop" deals are open. Got some cool ones, Mecha Khz, Infernal WW, Snowland Ori.
Yeah different trade offs, but the fact Ezreal is such a strong pick when he doesn't clear that fast and has no real cc suggests there's something wrong. Next thing you know they'll change him so that his Q only does 50% to jungle creeps or something, don't know how else they could change him.
Although granted Ezreal could get a rework, isn't he the oldest champ to not get a proper rework? Ryze, Annie, Tryn, Warwick, they've all had reworks but Ezreal has only had the effects of his abilities changed.
Ez is pretty healthy so IDK why he'd need a rework. I assume the early CD rework on mystic shot is why he's able to do the jungle now. The reason, IMO, he is getting play is that whenever ranged champions work well at all in the jungle they get a ton of play. Mystic shot proccing red buff is pretty good for jungle EZ. IDK how well it will work out for pros since they rely on junglers for early dives, but its just like when Kindred was good. People always want something other than a banger that becomes a smite/CC bot from the jungle, its just that usually those champs can't get a good first clear.
Passive effect's Attack speed bonus changed from [20 - 35%] to [20 - 40%] Passive damage changed from [20 - 35] to [20 - 40] [New Effect] Unique passive's attack speed/on-hit bonus now also applies to the caster when used on an ally. - [Context]
i dont play botlane so not sure how much it will impact it but at this point i wish they just removed that item -.-
On September 19 2017 06:21 kongoline wrote: PBE changes Ardent Censer [Context]
Passive effect's Attack speed bonus changed from [20 - 35%] to [20 - 40%] Passive damage changed from [20 - 35] to [20 - 40] [New Effect] Unique passive's attack speed/on-hit bonus now also applies to the caster when used on an ally. - [Context]
i dont play botlane so not sure how much it will impact it but at this point i wish they just removed that item -.-
On September 19 2017 06:21 kongoline wrote: PBE changes Ardent Censer [Context]
Passive effect's Attack speed bonus changed from [20 - 35%] to [20 - 40%] Passive damage changed from [20 - 35] to [20 - 40] [New Effect] Unique passive's attack speed/on-hit bonus now also applies to the caster when used on an ally. - [Context]
i dont play botlane so not sure how much it will impact it but at this point i wish they just removed that item -.-
Removal of heal is massive, but the item is still bonkers.
i often play late night and seeing this tilts me to no end, if u plan on playing drunk wasting people time and destroy the game go play normals not ranked -.-
On September 19 2017 06:21 kongoline wrote: PBE changes Ardent Censer [Context]
Passive effect's Attack speed bonus changed from [20 - 35%] to [20 - 40%] Passive damage changed from [20 - 35] to [20 - 40] [New Effect] Unique passive's attack speed/on-hit bonus now also applies to the caster when used on an ally. - [Context]
i dont play botlane so not sure how much it will impact it but at this point i wish they just removed that item -.-
It doesn't heal anymore.
Buffing the damage by removing the heal is not a good trade off, all it means is that Kog and Twitch will buy BotRK again, before they could get away with Guinsoo or Runaans, but the extra AS and dmg will mitigate that. Also don't see why the item should apply to the support, all of a sudden Janna is dishing out 100 dmg AA, and Sona will hit like a god damn truck.
Riot needs to think really long and hard about the place of the item in the botlane, aka if it should be a permanent meta pick that punishes people who don't buy it, or be sub optimal so that people will only buy it when it really synergizes with the champions. After Locket, Redemption and Knight's Vow, now we have to deal with Ardent practically every game. All those items need to be looked at, along with the champs that use them.
If you are going to be that philosophical, its best for them to rework support. I always preferred the ward-slave role from the pre-sightstone era, but if you aren't going to go back to that (and they probably wont) why not just make all warding self-sufficient (everyone gets yellow to start, it upgrades into current sightstone without the HP) and just let "support" be a 4th laner who you can allocate to your weakest laner and invent a mastery that gives you 50%+ of CS within a certain range. The current situation is too middle for my taste.
On September 19 2017 06:34 GrandInquisitor wrote: Ezreal doesn't clear fast? He has the fastest buff-camp-buff clear in the game.
Yes and then you have the other camps. Nidalee kills everything and will get like 100 cs over her opponent, Ezreal isn't going to do that.
I mean no one is going to argue with you that Nidalee does raptors faster than Ezreal. But Ezreal can do buff-camp-buff and show up at your second buff at near-full HP/mana. There's very few junglers that can do that, and even fewer that can win the 1v1.
Don't have a PBE account but how is everyone liking the azir changes?
They seemed pretty good to me from reading them. Not being able to attack wards with soldiers bothers me, and I think it's unfortunate you have to be so close to auto attack with soldiers but frankly Azir shouldn't be completely safe when auto attacking anyways.
I'm guessing his early power might be a little too weak now, but again I can't test the changes for myself.
I'm real bad, but since no one else is saying anything I guess I'll share. I find the new Azir to be really fun. It feels to me like you have 3 phases in your game... the early phase level 1-4 when you have some base number buffs but are more vulnerable to ranged harass and can't shove as well. I think this is the only place where he might be weaker. Then there's middle phase 5-9 when you notice just how much harder your Q hits and the power from reduced cooldowns on Q, W, and R. Finally there's 10-16 when you get your full waveclear capabilities back and you have almost 100% uptime on the 3 soldiers buff (during important moments, anyways).
In terms of "is he good" though I don't think I'm the one to ask. He's definitely fun and IMO did not need any of the things Riot removed from him to be fun to play.
I.... I dont know if its totally terrible, and just feels really fun to play, or it actually has merit. but i've been going Sheen -> Tabi/bramble -> Phage -> Rapidfire -> Trinity + tank up on Ornn.
The attack and movement speed makes him feel really really good. and the extra range of rapid fire helps connect that brittle pop, as well as give him some pushing ability combine with sheen, something he just doesnt have with the sunfire/abyssal stuff.
It sounds terrible looking at the items, but its been working? I dont know. But its the most fun ive had on ornn, and the only continued success ive had on him, even on smurf.
Idk I think Ornn is decent to good since his initial hotfix where his combo actually hit someone hit by q. I think you might be associating getting better at the champ with your item build. Rapid fire adds ~50 range to a melee which isn't that bad, but the reason this is a big part of playing Wukong for instance (q grants similar range) is because it's on demand. Saving FTC for a w proc seems highly unreliable especially when the character isn't very good at nuking waves so you auto minions quite often.
I played the champ probably 10 times in total so I could be wrong but iceborn seems better than triforce in basically every way for him as well. (High mana costs, bad at pushing, bad at sticking)
On September 22 2017 06:03 PrinceXizor wrote: I.... I dont know if its totally terrible, and just feels really fun to play, or it actually has merit. but i've been going Sheen -> Tabi/bramble -> Phage -> Rapidfire -> Trinity + tank up on Ornn.
The attack and movement speed makes him feel really really good. and the extra range of rapid fire helps connect that brittle pop, as well as give him some pushing ability combine with sheen, something he just doesnt have with the sunfire/abyssal stuff.
It sounds terrible looking at the items, but its been working? I dont know. But its the most fun ive had on ornn, and the only continued success ive had on him, even on smurf.
I can somewhat accept the Triforce especially since Sheen and Phage seem like really decent early power spikes while laning and Ornn sure love those powerspikes since he doesn't need to back. But spending 6333 gold on non-tank items on a tank just seem... Ehhh?
Maybe Sheen into anti-laner item (hopefully Iceborn) instead of Trinity?
Never really felt like he has issues with pushing his entire kit is AoE and Q+W is pretty early enough to melt the wave and a full Q+W+E pretty much kill it all (E double hit on melees).
On September 22 2017 06:03 PrinceXizor wrote: I.... I dont know if its totally terrible, and just feels really fun to play, or it actually has merit. but i've been going Sheen -> Tabi/bramble -> Phage -> Rapidfire -> Trinity + tank up on Ornn.
The attack and movement speed makes him feel really really good. and the extra range of rapid fire helps connect that brittle pop, as well as give him some pushing ability combine with sheen, something he just doesnt have with the sunfire/abyssal stuff.
It sounds terrible looking at the items, but its been working? I dont know. But its the most fun ive had on ornn, and the only continued success ive had on him, even on smurf.
I can somewhat accept the Triforce especially since Sheen and Phage seem like really decent early power spikes while laning and Ornn sure love those powerspikes since he doesn't need to back. But spending 6333 gold on non-tank items on a tank just seem... Ehhh?
Maybe Sheen into anti-laner item (hopefully Iceborn) instead of Trinity?
Never really felt like he has issues with pushing his entire kit is AoE and Q+W is pretty early enough to melt the wave and a full Q+W+E pretty much kill it all (E double hit on melees).
Yeah it's totally possible its just terrible. but its working real well for me. And i do run a very tanky set of runes, that is a bit quirky. Just felt when i went tanky, like folk doing with sunfire, abyssal, etc etc. it doesnt matter if he just stands in lane endlessly, if he cant take a tower down without about 3-4 minutes of minions or rift and jungle. He just doesnt generate any pressure, which means the impetus is entirely on what he can do on the map for his team, which in solo queue is kind of a kiss of death, relying on any other lane to get anything done, even with your help.
Item Stat/cost wise: sheen + tabi/bramble and a phage, is only 4k gold, which makes that combination comparable to sunfire + catalyst, which means you are getting 450 less HP, 50 less mana, 5 more armor, 10% more cdr, 20 movespeed, 15 AD, and then tabi/bramble/phage/sheen passives.
And I've found that the Movespeed is soo good at repositioning after half of your abilties lock you in place for a little bit.
The pressure off that spike is real good though. But yes. its possible its bad and being tankier is better. just sharing whats worked for me. Ornn, like most bad champs has the problem where playing him lowers your MMR so its tough to tell if you are winning because your opponents are worse, or you are better.
Though my biggest improvement at ornn came when i stopped buying starting items, and just went 5 pots +250 gold into lane and bought after the first wave.
What runes do you run? I've had the most succes with AD red and quints, his Q has a 100% ratio and given how many autos you usually get off while fighting due to it's slow it feels really good. Early Catalyst (just upgrade it later if you dont need the MR asap) is just feels too good on him to pass up imho. Maybe something like Catalyst into either Iceborn or Mask depending on match up?
Haven't tried MS quints but it do sound tempting. If swifties work against his selfslow it could be interesting to try, but mercs and tabis are just so strong... :-/
Pots and beads is pretty troll on him since he got a pretty good amount of HP/5. Have tried a regen rune setup with 2x beads and pots into Catalyst rush, it was pretty horrible but at the same time horrible fun (if that makes any sense) to meme around never backing.
On September 22 2017 22:37 Jek wrote: What runes do you run?
AD Marks, 5 Scaling health Seals, 4 Scaling Armor Seals, 6 Flat MR Glyphs, 3 Scaling MR Glyphs, 2 Flat Health Quints, 1 Flat Armor Quint. Stats end up with 4.3 Armor, .66 Armor/level, 8.5 AD, 52 HP, 6.67 HP/Level, 8 MR, .5 MR/Level.
Though I'd definitely want to swap out the AD for Mpen if i was going tanky only, since most of his damage is magical when you arent going sheen type stuff.
Considering both Q and E are physical I think hybrid runes would be slightly better than mpen, but I honest dont thing anything can beat scaling health seals +flat resist quints if you're going for a pure tank build.
edit: Tried some kind CDR setup? His ultimate is so strong and honestly the main reason to play him imo. The couple of times I tried him I went for a decent amount of CDR early through items. Having 20% from runes and whatever at level 6 could be pretty interesting.
On September 22 2017 23:16 Jek wrote: Considering both Q and E are physical I think hybrid runes would be slightly better than mpen, but I honest dont thing anything can beat scaling health seals +flat resist quints if you're going for a pure tank build.
Well, going pure tank the damage doesnt seem to line up for hybrid right? At absolutely maximum for pure tank you are looking at like 259 from his Q, or 299 if baron, at lvl 18. his combine damage for his E if he hits both is 300+60% bonus resists, which is like another 200-240 at full item on the very very high end?
So thats at maximum 800-840 physical in a single rotation, plus like 3-4 autos at 159 (assuming baron) for 1476 at most? His W does 25% current health which is between 400 and 750 damage depending on target, with a minimum of 280 if the target is low hp, his Ult does 225 per pass so up to 450 base. so thats between 730 vs low hp, to 850-1150 base vs full hp targets? And then the brittle damage. 16% max hp is 256 vs squishies or up to 480 for tanks? and then you get up to 3 brittle pops in a single rotation for between 256-1440 damage from brittle. So magic damage from a single rotation is 986-2590 magic damage+16 for AP scaling on baron buff? On a single target assuming full tank build and baron buff.
So i guess if only getting a single brittle hit vs low hp targets, hybrid makes sense. but over a fight longer than 10-15 seconds you are going to get way more W and brittle hits off than knockup+charge hits off your E. which drags magic significantly ahead of physical.
In the late game situation any kind of penetration runes on a tank is equally bad imo since flat pen more or less gets worse as the game progress while on the other hand resist runes get stronger due to higher HP pool. I'd only take penetration runes for laning in a situation where you go for an early Bramble Vest or Bami, but even then I think AD runes are better since the lanes you can aggress in I'd imagine most of your damage will be from Q, E and autos.
On September 23 2017 00:20 Jek wrote: In the late game situation any kind of penetration runes on a tank is equally bad imo since flat pen more or less gets worse as the game progress while on the other hand resist runes get stronger due to higher HP pool. I'd only take penetration runes for laning in a situation where you go for an early Bramble Vest or Bami, but even then I think AD runes are better since the lanes you can aggress in I'd imagine most of your damage will be from Q, E and autos.
marks in general arent good on tanks. Mpen at least has the most effectiveness late of any. AD is meaningless, Mpen at least improves % current and %max HP spells. which DO increase in effectiveness over the game.
You run as reds on tanks to have easier time farming with your autos and save mana. Attack speed runes on tanks sounds counter-intuitive but it does work in practice. When I switched to as from mpen on Maokai, it felt like a huge improvement.
On September 23 2017 02:04 Sent. wrote: You run as reds on tanks to have easier time farming with your autos and save mana. Attack speed runes on tanks sounds counter-intuitive but it does work in practice. When I switched to as from mpen on Maokai, it felt like a huge improvement.
Another small bonus for AS on Maokai is it make getting the auto to proc his passive slightly faster, not a lot but it is a secondary benefit nevertheless. Likewise on Malphite and his happyslap active.
Huh, I've always run AS runes on Maokai, it really is strong on him. Think I basically copied some KR account runes, moving from my Mundo health page felt like a world of a difference. It really helps with trading and last hitting, ppl really underestimate the power of being able to get in an extra AA or two because you have considerably faster AS, especially if you're trying to weave them in between abilities. And it's already been mentioned, but his passive is tied to his AA, and that's critical in certain situations.
Honestly my Maokai page has been a staple pick for me whenever I play tanks, and also AA based bruisers, like Jax and Irelia.
anyone else running into the problem where your "Worlds Mission" is "Complete more Missions" but you have no more missions to complete? I assumed it would be like other challengers where completing missions gives you missions but that hasn't been the case
AD lets you be less precise in timing your last hit, but AS makes everything you do smoother. Uhh, it's like AD gives you a shotgun and AS gives you a machine gun in a situation where you need just one bullet to hit.
Yeah, I'd lean towards AD runes if your issue is sucking at last hitting. Hitting faster helps less if you still mistime and creep live with 10 hp and die to your own minions.
On September 24 2017 05:37 NeoIllusions wrote: Yeah, I'd lean towards AD runes if your issue is sucking at last hitting. Hitting faster helps less if you still mistime and creep live with 10 hp and die to your own minions.
If somebody sucks at last hitting, that just means they need to hit that practice tool.
On September 24 2017 05:37 NeoIllusions wrote: Yeah, I'd lean towards AD runes if your issue is sucking at last hitting. Hitting faster helps less if you still mistime and creep live with 10 hp and die to your own minions.
I find it a lot easier with the increased animation speed, and running AD on champions like Orianna is pretty meh compared to attack speed and doesn't really solve the problem I have specifically.
On September 24 2017 05:37 NeoIllusions wrote: Yeah, I'd lean towards AD runes if your issue is sucking at last hitting. Hitting faster helps less if you still mistime and creep live with 10 hp and die to your own minions.
If somebody sucks at last hitting, that just means they need to hit that practice tool.
Last hitting in practice tool is nothing like laning.
On September 24 2017 05:37 NeoIllusions wrote: Yeah, I'd lean towards AD runes if your issue is sucking at last hitting. Hitting faster helps less if you still mistime and creep live with 10 hp and die to your own minions.
I find it a lot easier with the increased animation speed, and running AD on champions like Orianna is pretty meh compared to attack speed and doesn't really solve the problem I have specifically.
On September 24 2017 05:37 NeoIllusions wrote: Yeah, I'd lean towards AD runes if your issue is sucking at last hitting. Hitting faster helps less if you still mistime and creep live with 10 hp and die to your own minions.
If somebody sucks at last hitting, that just means they need to hit that practice tool.
Last hitting in practice tool is nothing like laning.
You should be able to get 100 cs at minute 10 without a lane opponent right? is that the target still or is that outdated from changes to minion spawn long ago.
Not taking cannon minions into account, there's only 96 minions that will hit the outer-to-outer area of a lane in 10 mins, no? Since 1:30 is when the first wave spawns and, I believe, it takes 30 seconds to hit the equilibrium point in side lanes there should only be 16 farmable waves.
On September 24 2017 06:48 Gahlo wrote: Not taking cannon minions into account, there's only 96 minions that will hit the outer-to-outer area of a lane in 10 mins, no? Since 1:30 is when the first wave spawns and, I believe, it takes 30 seconds to hit the equilibrium point in side lanes there should only be 16 farmable waves.
which would mean 101 minions in lane including cannons, right?
Eve rework I see. Did they say whether they are going to go more jungle or AP Caster oriented? I don't think stealth + jungle works anymore, its too much of the power budget for pro play, but I could see it working as a Taliah roaming stealth.
On September 24 2017 08:12 cLutZ wrote: Eve rework I see. Did they say whether they are going to go more jungle or AP Caster oriented? I don't think stealth + jungle works anymore, its too much of the power budget for pro play, but I could see it working as a Taliah roaming stealth.
I think you forgot how broken she was when she was strong enough to lane mid.
Eve has been "strong enough" to lane mid for a long time.
Level 1 Hatespikes all in kills almost everything. Like even oldschool xinzhao. If other laner doesn't just like give up the first couple waves you can roll over them pretty hard. Try it in a normal, its pretty lulzy. Cheesy as shit though. Like a more obscure version of lane shaco, if other guys doesn't respect you can literally just shit all over them.
I tried practice mode and got 91 at 10 minutes wihtout attack speed runes on Orianna, I don't think it really has much relation to normal laning. I average like 70 to 80 in normal games? It's not like attack speed isn't a useful stat or anything so I'm pretty happy running it, though I guess that will come to an end with the runes update.
Playing Eve mid is just asking to hate your life against most common mid laners, walking up against like Ori/Cass/Syndra doesn't sound great to me.
It's all about side brush control my man. Eve fast out of W.
And whether the other guy knows that or not. A lot of kids don't play that game frequently. I had a one trick eve mid buddy who played it up to like Dia3 I think. He'd do silly shit like make the other guy lean away from q brush he was in, then walk all the around to just get on them. Also even really good players wiff a lot when they jumped.
Definitely cheese-y though. If other guy has seen it before it's not very good.
On September 24 2017 06:48 Gahlo wrote: Not taking cannon minions into account, there's only 96 minions that will hit the outer-to-outer area of a lane in 10 mins, no? Since 1:30 is when the first wave spawns and, I believe, it takes 30 seconds to hit the equilibrium point in side lanes there should only be 16 farmable waves.
which would mean 101 minions in lane including cannons, right?
If cannon are every 3rd wave(which I think they are, but don't feel like looking up), yeah.
On September 24 2017 08:12 cLutZ wrote: Eve rework I see. Did they say whether they are going to go more jungle or AP Caster oriented? I don't think stealth + jungle works anymore, its too much of the power budget for pro play, but I could see it working as a Taliah roaming stealth.
I think you forgot how broken she was when she was strong enough to lane mid.
Yes, and? I'm saying if you do a rework, you either can't keep stealth, or have to find a way to shove her into midlane. Stealth junglers simply can't be a thing in pro play without being faceroll op Bronze-D1
I still play Eve mid in soloq if I get autofilled. Dunno about iCanada's claim about that allin, since turrets exist and you'll get traded back on. Attackspeed reds is the best if you're bad, but it's also champ and matchup dependent. Some tanks auto a lot during trades in certain matchups, like Malph vs most melees, so there you want them. On Mao you already have so much spell damage that you don't need them, and you trade less anyway, so there other runes are optimal.
On September 25 2017 23:24 Scip wrote: Get Japanese voices, some of the things they say are quite... interesting Try banning Taric or Annie, depending on your preference
If Annie doesn't call you a baka I'm going to be disappointed in Rie K.
I know it is cost effective to spend your IP on hextech champion shards and disenchant them to get blue essence, but do I have to disenchant the shards now (before the update) ? Don't want to get rid of them if I don't have to, might need them for stuff like unlocking champion mastery or some new stuff riot may introudce in the future.
On September 26 2017 04:33 Sent. wrote: I know it is cost effective to spend your IP on hextech champion shards and disenchant them to get blue essence, but do I have to disenchant the shards now (before the update) ? Don't want to get rid of them if I don't have to, might need them for stuff like unlocking champion mastery or some new stuff riot may introudce in the future.
Okay, now that I'm actually educated on the topic, disenchant them now. After the update they are reducing the amount you get when you disenchant.
So what are we meant to do exactly, buy Hextech champ shards then disenchant those shards into blue essence? Effectively converting IP to Blue essence now but then Blue essence gets increased by a bigger multiplier than IP to Blue will be when update hits?
On September 26 2017 04:33 Sent. wrote: I know it is cost effective to spend your IP on hextech champion shards and disenchant them to get blue essence, but do I have to disenchant the shards now (before the update) ? Don't want to get rid of them if I don't have to, might need them for stuff like unlocking champion mastery or some new stuff riot may introudce in the future.
Okay, now that I'm actually educated on the topic, disenchant them now. After the update they are reducing the amount you get when you disenchant.
To piggy back a bit, only keep a shard if you might want the champion itself. If you have zero desire to have the champ disenchant it now, if not keep it and use your essence you get at the start of the season to upgrade it
On September 26 2017 05:40 Numy wrote: So what are we meant to do exactly, buy Hextech champ shards then disenchant those shards into blue essence? Effectively converting IP to Blue essence now but then Blue essence gets increased by a bigger multiplier than IP to Blue will be when update hits?
Alright, thanks for advice. Got 10.4k blue essence now. Kept 7 for upgrades and mastery unlocks.
On September 26 2017 05:40 Numy wrote: So what are we meant to do exactly, buy Hextech champ shards then disenchant those shards into blue essence? Effectively converting IP to Blue essence now but then Blue essence gets increased by a bigger multiplier than IP to Blue will be when update hits?
I don't have a lot of IP so just throwing this out there hoping it's the case lol. Saving my RP for this eve rework, need to see how lewd her skins are!
Btw how are people finding Kayn. I'm starting to like jungling more. Just sticking with WW,Kha,Ramus mostly as jungle pool isn't too big for me.
On September 26 2017 06:11 Numy wrote: I don't have a lot of IP so just throwing this out there hoping it's the case lol. Saving my RP for this eve rework, need to see how lewd her skins are!
Btw how are people finding Kayn. I'm starting to like jungling more. Just sticking with WW,Kha,Ramus mostly as jungle pool isn't too big for me.
edit: Do I do anything with Skin shards?
Kayn is bloody obnoxious and really strong, his gank patterns are so unique most (including me) fuck up ward placements against him.
On September 26 2017 05:40 Numy wrote: So what are we meant to do exactly, buy Hextech champ shards then disenchant those shards into blue essence? Effectively converting IP to Blue essence now but then Blue essence gets increased by a bigger multiplier than IP to Blue will be when update hits?
Yeah. Some guy on reddit did the math and the conversion comes out to an 8.something% increase in IP/BE after the switch multiplies BE with the change, adjusting for what champion you get(I assume 450 and 1350 pull the # down from being something larger).
On September 26 2017 06:11 Numy wrote: I don't have a lot of IP so just throwing this out there hoping it's the case lol. Saving my RP for this eve rework, need to see how lewd her skins are!
Btw how are people finding Kayn. I'm starting to like jungling more. Just sticking with WW,Kha,Ramus mostly as jungle pool isn't too big for me.
edit: Do I do anything with Skin shards?
I don't own him so can't say if he feels good but playing against him is very annoying when he gets to invade my shit and I can't punish him because he just runs through walls. I also feel powerless when he goes red and outsustains me in duels, though that rarely happens because I mostly play WW, Gragas and Elise (he just runs away if I'm strong or I run away if I'm just a tank). When I feel like playing Diana or Nidalee seeing Kayn on the opposite team makes me shiver. My Nidalee is terrible though, I probably should stop playing her but I'm telling myself I need to practice ap junglers for those games where my team picks full ad.
Don't remember about the update affecting anything about skin shards. I hoard them.
On September 25 2017 23:24 Scip wrote: Get Japanese voices, some of the things they say are quite... interesting Try banning Taric or Annie, depending on your preference
If Annie doesn't call you a baka I'm going to be disappointed in Rie K.
No, it's just orgasm sounds quite a lot of characters do them when you ban them in Japanese. I think Ahri has one too.
The new rune system looks pretty interesting, but they will have to look at every champ closely to make sure some setups aren't busted. Like endlessly scaling Grasp of the Undying sounds like a hilarious bonus for the likes of Cho and would make Stoneplate incredibly strong. In fact Riot seems to have added quite a few 'permanent buff' features if I'm seeing it correctly. Same with endlessly stacking attack damage, it seems skewed towards high AS champs and duelists, someone like Jax could be pretty stupidly strong.
My Nidalee is terrible though, I probably should stop playing her but I'm telling myself I need to practice ap junglers for those games where my team picks full ad.
Why don't you just play Elise then, Nidalee requires actually being good at the champ to get anything done, Elise can win games just by landing cocoons.
My Nidalee is terrible though, I probably should stop playing her but I'm telling myself I need to practice ap junglers for those games where my team picks full ad.
Why don't you just play Elise then, Nidalee requires actually being good at the champ to get anything done, Elise can win games just by landing cocoons.
Rumble jungle is also legit. A good Equalizer against a team building little MR is gonna destroy them.
On September 26 2017 06:55 DarkCore wrote:. Like endlessly scaling Grasp of the Undying sounds like a hilarious bonus for the likes of Cho and would make Stoneplate incredibly strong.
Maybe? The "perfect" grasp would be 75 HP/Minute. which means in a 30 minute game you get 2250 HP, if you never recall and auto someone every 4 seconds. Real top efficiency is likely closer to 1/4 that,, what with recalls, kills, deaths, and pushing, so 560 HPish? And thats a stretch too probably. The .2% HP/10 minions is interesting, even for junglers. a full clear is 24-26 monsters. which means ~ 1% HP every 2 clears, multiplied by cinderhulk it gets interesting i guess, and lane ganking or taxing/covering. probably between 120-200 HP from that rune alone. can snag the inspiration for 205 more, and then maybe 200 from grasp? Neat amount of HP.
I've spent some time reading the masteries and it's really interesting trying to build for my junglers one thing to notice is that sorcery as main path and inspiration as second give more base stats, really important for junglers. IIRC Stopwatch builds into a GA, so that's a good mastery too. Might just be taking secondary inspiration on everybody
i was under the impression junglers like lee, elise etc. would be going domination. you have burst through electrocute or with the jungle mob keystone and you have vision control with poros and zombie wards. everything junglers want to do tbh, unless youre a tank jungler maybe.
On September 26 2017 10:10 dsyxelic wrote: just play tank junglers
sej mao in particular do high amounts of damage for a tank and its all magic. not that rare i do like top 2 damage on my team if i do well on them
top 2 damage with sej/mao building tank? i feel sorry for you
and holy shit why are there so many keystones new stormraiders seems quite easy to proc
here's a prime example from iwd
obviously super extreme case of shit teammates since regardless a maokai should not do that much more than teammates in a 50 minute game, but in shorter games and shit teammates it is fairly trivial to do top 2 damage on team
On September 26 2017 11:59 evilfatsh1t wrote: i was under the impression junglers like lee, elise etc. would be going domination. you have burst through electrocute or with the jungle mob keystone and you have vision control with poros and zombie wards. everything junglers want to do tbh, unless youre a tank jungler maybe.
Yeah, Domination seems like it will be the main path for most at least bruiser and damage junglers. But the extra 3.5 AD from taking Inspiration as second one may seal that as the usual cookie cutter jungler rune setup. I wouldn't underestimate Predator though. At a first glance it seems like maybe the most powerful jungle thing overall. Like a superghost with damage attached to it, if you are going in from the jungle.
Also yeah, doing the most or 2nd most damage is pretty normal as a jungler. Ask the EUW squad xD
On September 26 2017 06:55 DarkCore wrote:. Like endlessly scaling Grasp of the Undying sounds like a hilarious bonus for the likes of Cho and would make Stoneplate incredibly strong.
Maybe? The "perfect" grasp would be 75 HP/Minute. which means in a 30 minute game you get 2250 HP, if you never recall and auto someone every 4 seconds. Real top efficiency is likely closer to 1/4 that,, what with recalls, kills, deaths, and pushing, so 560 HPish? And thats a stretch too probably. The .2% HP/10 minions is interesting, even for junglers. a full clear is 24-26 monsters. which means ~ 1% HP every 2 clears, multiplied by cinderhulk it gets interesting i guess, and lane ganking or taxing/covering. probably between 120-200 HP from that rune alone. can snag the inspiration for 205 more, and then maybe 200 from grasp? Neat amount of HP.
Oh, I didn't see they posted actual numbers with the abilities. You're right, it doesn't seem too bad, except then you remember it's a load of free stats. And like I said, Stoneplate multiplying with that health is pretty dope. For most champs it could be balanced, but some champs can obviously take advantage of certain runes.
My fear is that while Riot is trying to introduce these runes to increase diversity in setups, if they synergize too strong with a champs kit then it can do quite the opposite. If a rune is too strong on one champion, will Riot nerf the rune or the champion? Because if they nerf the champion, then there's a good chance they will become further dependent on the rune to stay relevant.
the new rune system has made me really not interested in worlds. The meta leading up to worlds has been real uninteresting and knowing how completely different it's going to be, more than most preseasons feel like. Meh.
What im most curious about is how armor/mres gets adjusted with the new system though. There is almost no early game armor/MR in the runes. But i guess there is no Penetration either.
This is definitely the first time ive looked at preseason changes and thought. i have absolutely no clue what the game is going to look like after worlds. Usually you can interpret some stuff, because a lot stays the same. but every champs numbers are being changed to fit in the rune system. I just dont know.
its definitely not sky is falling, none of it is really. its just. a total unknown to me. I can look at the runes and think "wow this going to be good because... oh no wait i cant use pen runes etc etc"
Im a little sad that i think my Rapidfire ornn is 100% dead now that Warlords is on that tree.
On tank junglers though. I dont think tanks should have tower de-aggro or nullification abilities, like Maokai W or Sej/zac passive.
Tanks already do well diving because of stats and item choices. they dont need bonus ability to dive.
On tank junglers though. I dont think tanks should have tower de-aggro or nullification abilities, like Maokai W or Sej/zac passive.
Tanks already do well diving because of stats and item choices. they dont need bonus ability to dive.
Idk, I think tower aggro juggling should be a rewarding skill. Sucks when Mao dives you, tanks tower and then uses W to reset it and get away, but considering that those abilities are usually needed to dive you in the first place, he was probably pretty ahead or you were playing too greedy.
Everyone currently on KR soloQ is building Gunsoo, Runaans, Witts End on Kog, people are building similar on Twitch and Varus. Did something change that made Gunsoo so popular? The meta bot lane seems really unhealthy right now, ADC going Targons to rush Ardent on their support, and everyone is playing AS based ADC only, it's like crit has been nerfed or something. Not to mention loads of people running barrier/heal combos, feel like mid lane Karma has also seen a rise in popularity. Ardent is really getting out of hand...
I think deaggroing is a great skillset and fun to use and see, with high risk if you screw it up.
I just dont think tanks should be the one with that ability. since they are already some of the best divers because they can absorb more tower shots anyway. Elise having it is good for the game, Aatrox back when people did that was fine, Kayn is even good because he's much squishier than the tanks. Its fine that vlad, fizz and Ekko and zed can. Just seems excessive for tanks.
Plz no, sounds busted on supports. Bot lane has a lot of matchups that favour one side considerably already, and snow balling can be pretty lopsided, you don't need to make it worse by giving them the chance to dive you easier. Especially because bot lane diving in pro play is already quite common, juggling aggro with 3/4 ppl is a lot easier than just 2 in top lane.
What's wrong with smite stealing major objectives? It makes games more exciting lol, and makes comebacks possible. My bigger problem is with certain champs being able to do more instant damage to baron like Cho/Kalista/Nunu.
On September 27 2017 02:53 DarkCore wrote: Plz no, sounds busted on supports. Bot lane has a lot of matchups that favour one side considerably already, and snow balling can be pretty lopsided, you don't need to make it worse by giving them the chance to dive you easier. Especially because bot lane diving in pro play is already quite common, juggling aggro with 3/4 ppl is a lot easier than just 2 in top lane.
What's wrong with smite stealing major objectives? It makes games more exciting lol, and makes comebacks possible. My bigger problem is with certain champs being able to do more instant damage to baron like Cho/Kalista/Nunu.
A while back i ran Relic shield Vlad support for funsies. i think this was before the rework. specifically for the dive. and it was a lot of fun lol
On September 27 2017 02:53 DarkCore wrote: Plz no, sounds busted on supports. Bot lane has a lot of matchups that favour one side considerably already, and snow balling can be pretty lopsided, you don't need to make it worse by giving them the chance to dive you easier. Especially because bot lane diving in pro play is already quite common, juggling aggro with 3/4 ppl is a lot easier than just 2 in top lane.
What's wrong with smite stealing major objectives? It makes games more exciting lol, and makes comebacks possible. My bigger problem is with certain champs being able to do more instant damage to baron like Cho/Kalista/Nunu.
Smite steals aren't fun, they are cheap. If your game needs that to have comebacks, you need a better comeback mechanic. I'd be ok if it was an anti-snowball mechanic where a smite steal nullified the big monster buff entirely.
EPT
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