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United States37500 Posts
Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Non-League of Legends discussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
There is no new champion this patch.
Patch 7.15: Live on July 26th, 2017
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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Shiiit Gragas and Zac are my go-to junglers and both are getting nerfed. I hope halving Zac's rank 1 W damage won't make his first clear as bad as I think it will.
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On July 26 2017 04:17 JimmiC wrote:
Sivir is gonna be S tier for ADCs she was already moving up the list.
I don't think she needed a buff but she's still a super risky blind pick at the moment with Kalista and Draven being popular ATM, but she's already a great pick vs trist or jihn pre buff.
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Urgot getting pick/ban status in ranked is going to be fun to watch.
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akali buff = insignificant but also unnecessary, still a good counter to the ranged tops that infest high elo and out sustains tanks easily. still good.
azir = negligible, too many good midlaners right now to matter
Cho'gath slightly slower early clear, same champion once he completes cinderhulk. maybe a 53% winrate this patch now that people have experience against him?
mundo - slowly creeping in as a viable solo q jungler, still a relatively trash top except as a niche against heavy AP comps.
ekko - overbuff on his mid lane, probably brings him back as a general meta pick and ekko players already like shiphtur will embarass people even harder. Bad buff here.
Elise - worse then it looks, but the AP aggro pool of champions is so empty that it doesnt matter, she has her own specific niche in league.
ezreal - meta still doesnt favor him, cant be strong when crit is top tier.
gangplank - hard to determine. could swing some matchups more in his favor I dont know much about this champ
gragas - way worse then elise' nerf but doesnt affect his 1-5 so probably still a staple in competitive. could have an affect on his solo q though.
Irelia - really needless buff, was already rising up in high elo as another counter to the gnar/jayce/kennen triad that also decimates tanks. This buff is the definition of why silver/gold players shouldn't be leading the balance team, appalling. Meaningless in competitive but adds more snowball power to a difficult champion to contain.
jinx - seems fairly meaningless, not an expert on the champ
kayn - with the bugfixes rhaast is probably pretty strong now. Could become a problem if they do another buff, seems like this is where they should leave it.
lissandra - poster child for meaningless number changes. feel bad for lissandra players
lux - annoying champ that sells a lot of skins and always finds a way to get buffed again. Will always suffer from her pattern of KDA play where she either destroys your team with her long CDs or gets murked before she can do anything or misses her one rotation.
nami - already lowkey good in marksman meta but held back by blitz/thresh popularity. Gives more uptime on her single defense which is a significant buff.
nasus - loses even more early game power then he already had at expense for 2 more lategame toys. Not sure how it will play out but I probably still wouldnt take him top, might be able to jungle him again not sure.
nautilus - lot of strong tanks right now, might throw him in the support mix when thresh/blitz are banned?
shyvana - lol farming junglers in 2017
singed - bugfixes, still cancer
sivir - now top tier, another balance change brought to you by the silver 3 masterminds at riot games
twisted fate - was viable in solo q, still viable in solo q. Taliyah is TF for competitive.
xerath - similar to lux but more relentless, good xerath players and scripters alike will rejoice. Solidly tier 2, probably already was.
zac - significant nerfs when other champs in his expertise were already on the rise like maokai and sejuani. Not weak but definitely no reason to pick him competitively now i'd think.
ziggs - pretty much meaningless, wont see a return on this buff until its too late
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Irelia buff was literally just a revert her ult nerf when Trinity was meta
also thats a huge buff on Nasus rank 5 spirit fire does 35% armor reduction now
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nasus buff on q is absolutely stupid they are making him insane in his strong case (bopping people in melee) but no better in his weak cases (getting kited)
he's just gonna be freelo against melee heavy teams
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Nasus change is a lot of "Why?" overbuffing that Riot does when they want to force a champion into the meta.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
eyoo did someone say nerf all the meta junglers, dont touch olaf and skarner?
looks like scip is gonna get masters soon xD
the strategy of maining mediocre but not shit tier champs works out once again
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That stealth thresh nerf in the bug fixes. goodbye .25 second stun on flay.
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I think Lux might show up as Support a bit more now. Increasing her shield is pretty strong. The problem is her ult does nothing for a support. I'm curious if it's good enough.
The Nasus E change is insane. Sure it's a landing nerf; but it's a bigger debuff than BC. That's a massive change.
I really don't get the Zac nerf. I'm pretty sure he was fine already and this brings him back to mostly bad.
The problem I have with most of the changes is that riot doesn't seem to understand why a champ doesn't see play currently. E.G. Ezreal as a Caster ADC who doesn't really benefit from crit is bad because crit is both cheap and good currently; also his first back of Tear/Sheen is much harder to get than BF, Tier 2 boots, or Scimitar. So those buffs will sit until he gets enough direct or indirect bugs to make him playable. For being close to worlds patch; this is not the sort of fuckery I like to see.
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On July 26 2017 10:25 Scip wrote:
eyoo did someone say nerf all the meta junglers, dont touch olaf and skarner?
looks like scip is gonna get masters soon xD
the strategy of maining mediocre but not shit tier champs works out once again
Tfw this is my time to shine but I'm on vacation for another 2 weeks.
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On July 26 2017 15:24 geript wrote:
I think Lux might show up as Support a bit more now. Increasing her shield is pretty strong. The problem is her ult does nothing for a support. I'm curious if it's good enough.
The Nasus E change is insane. Sure it's a landing nerf; but it's a bigger debuff than BC. That's a massive change.
I really don't get the Zac nerf. I'm pretty sure he was fine already and this brings him back to mostly bad.
The problem I have with most of the changes is that riot doesn't seem to understand why a champ doesn't see play currently. E.G. Ezreal as a Caster ADC who doesn't really benefit from crit is bad because crit is both cheap and good currently; also his first back of Tear/Sheen is much harder to get than BF, Tier 2 boots, or Scimitar. So those buffs will sit until he gets enough direct or indirect bugs to make him playable. For being close to worlds patch; this is not the sort of fuckery I like to see.
Nasus change strikes me as weird, but might actually end up making him must-ban in the 2nd phase of pro games at some point. The ways he could potentially counter entire comps are interesting, if speculative as a result of meta shifts and buffs. IMO it makes him a less healthy champ.
I totally, agree, however with the sentiment about Riot not understanding the meta and why certain champs have disappeared. IMO they should have never let EZ's reliance on the "Blue Build" become a thing. The most fun EZ was the IPL 5 TF into IE version. Now all of his power is in Q spam because of blue and it means he is a slave to itemization.
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I think Lux might show up as Support a bit more now. Increasing her shield is pretty strong. The problem is her ult does nothing for a support. I'm curious if it's good enough.
I think Zyra is a better support in pretty much every way. Only thing Lux has going for her is shields, but Zyra is a much better tank buster, which is also where the meta is.
Uh, did Kayn get even stronger? I don't like that at all, even if it's just bug fixes.
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I really enjoy Urgot's Dash/throw. the flash timing for the ideal use is so strict I love it. It'll be changed as a"bugfix" in a patch or two to be easier no doubt.
Unsure if Ult -> Flash just has a visual bug or actual range change though.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On July 26 2017 18:08 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +I think Lux might show up as Support a bit more now. Increasing her shield is pretty strong. The problem is her ult does nothing for a support. I'm curious if it's good enough. I think Zyra is a better support in pretty much every way. Only thing Lux has going for her is shields, but Zyra is a much better tank buster, which is also where the meta is. Uh, did Kayn get even stronger? I don't like that at all, even if it's just bug fixes.
The two are not remotely similar ... Zyra is definitely a stronger support but Lux has much stronger single-target CC + damage. Lux level 6 combo is over 600 damage and a 2.5 AP ratio plus a 2s root; Zyra is nowhere close to that.
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On July 26 2017 20:00 GrandInquisitor wrote: Zyra is definitely a stronger support but Lux has much stronger single-target CC + damage. Lux level 6 combo is over 600 damage and a 2.5 AP ratio plus a 2s root; Zyra is nowhere close to that.
Uhhhh zyra full combo is 370 + 1.8AP 1.25 Root 1s Knockup. Pre Plant. And Each plant adds 54+.15AP x 3 attacks for the duration of the CC. which with 2 plants (assuming none are laid down prior. means Zyra combo does 694+2.7AP and 2.25s of CC. and thats assuming the planst only get the 3 guaranteed hits and nothing else.
I assume you arent including thunderlords for either champ. because its pretty much identical
Lux does more base damage if she pops her passive all 3 times. but her scaling is 5% lower, not that 5% matters out of support.
720 Base + 2.65AP for lux if you pop every passive, but 650+2.45AP if you only get 2.
so 26 more base damage - 1 for every 20 AP. Assuming only the 2 seeds and 3 hits during the cc for the plants. a single plant hit more means zyra does more outright even ideal lux scenario.
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The only way I see the nasus buffs get abused is through AP nasus again. That would cover up the weak early game since AP nasus didnt give a shit about the flat debuff to trade anyway, and then you give your team an insane debuff later and get free extra damage on Q even though its pretty meaningless.
These changes are very meh for top nasus unless you are facing a tank top, which you won anyway. Its not like you are getting off a billion q's in teamfights, it just makes his split push/skirming even stupider but his teamfight is still horrid.
The armor debuff is an interesting change but that ult change is really dumb.
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I remember a long time ago that maxing E early and building Sheen first would let Nasus truck a few lanes because it'd make his trading quite strong, as the expense of building up q stacks slower.
I assume with masteries and shit and the amount of tanks and stuff like Gnar and Fiora it doesn't matter anymore though.
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Best change in this patch is we can finally bind left click! I dont think I've ever used it for something outside of A-move.
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On July 26 2017 22:52 Jek wrote:
Best change in this patch is we can finally bind left click! I dont think I've ever used it for something outside of A-move.
i use it to select my lane opponents so I can see at the upper corner all buff/debuffs that are active on them
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On July 26 2017 22:45 Alaric wrote:
I remember a long time ago that maxing E early and building Sheen first would let Nasus truck a few lanes because it'd make his trading quite strong, as the expense of building up q stacks slower.
I assume with masteries and shit and the amount of tanks and stuff like Gnar and Fiora it doesn't matter anymore though.
i think it needed to be followed by zz rot rush which made nasus pushing power out of control, however, after several nerfs on zz rot the strat fell off. But it was still what was working if you want to play nasus at all until this patch. No idea what will happen now
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On July 27 2017 00:34 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2017 22:45 Alaric wrote:
I remember a long time ago that maxing E early and building Sheen first would let Nasus truck a few lanes because it'd make his trading quite strong, as the expense of building up q stacks slower.
I assume with masteries and shit and the amount of tanks and stuff like Gnar and Fiora it doesn't matter anymore though. i think it needed to be followed by zz rot rush which made nasus pushing power out of control, however, after several nerfs on zz rot the strat fell off. But it was still what was working if you want to play nasus at all until this patch. No idea what will happen now
Im surpised ZZrot w/ a focus on Herald isn't a thing. It's probably not super reliable, but I thought I would see it once or twice.
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On July 27 2017 00:34 M2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2017 22:45 Alaric wrote:
I remember a long time ago that maxing E early and building Sheen first would let Nasus truck a few lanes because it'd make his trading quite strong, as the expense of building up q stacks slower.
I assume with masteries and shit and the amount of tanks and stuff like Gnar and Fiora it doesn't matter anymore though. i think it needed to be followed by zz rot rush which made nasus pushing power out of control, however, after several nerfs on zz rot the strat fell off. But it was still what was working if you want to play nasus at all until this patch. No idea what will happen now
I'm 90% sure that was before zzrot was an item. Used to go jungle Nasus maxing E back in the day. It was some hilarious shit.
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I miss Zzrot. It was like Herald in that it forced action on the map, something that a stonewall defensive playstyle had to answer other than "stall the game out until 50 minutes and then win the game off a teamfight.", but wasn't limited to 22:55 on the gameclock.
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On July 27 2017 01:23 Gahlo wrote:
I miss Zzrot. It was like Herald in that it forced action on the map, something that a stonewall defensive playstyle had to answer other than "stall the game out until 50 minutes and then win the game off a teamfight.", but wasn't limited to 22:55 on the gameclock.
Did it though? Because 90% of Zzrot's were just used to avoid all interaction possible by split pushing then leaving it and avoiding fights. I've never had a game with less fights than one with zzrot nasus or udyr or whatever.
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E max Nasus kinda abused double dring passive I thought? Might have to rush glacial or something now? Idk I haven't played the character since the removed the original vo.
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On July 27 2017 01:36 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2017 01:23 Gahlo wrote:
I miss Zzrot. It was like Herald in that it forced action on the map, something that a stonewall defensive playstyle had to answer other than "stall the game out until 50 minutes and then win the game off a teamfight.", but wasn't limited to 22:55 on the gameclock. Did it though? Because 90% of Zzrot's were just used to avoid all interaction possible by split pushing then leaving it and avoiding fights. I've never had a game with less fights than one with zzrot nasus or udyr or whatever.
I'm talking more "okay, we can't actually siege the tower because our comp can't break through their defense, so lets get a Zzrot on our support and have it splitpush a lane for us."
I don't discuss the game on a soloq level because it's all monkey business.
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idk fam, zzrot is just kind of annoying but you can always clear the wave when you kill the wave they are sieging
might be helpful to get a wave shoved quicker but you still need a split pusher to get any work down
never seen zzrot active used too effectively tbh
i saw banner of command siege minion basically 1v1 a rumble though LOL
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One of my favorite things I've ever seen in League is a baron/bannered seige minion plinking at a tower while the team huddles around it daring the enemy team to come out and try to kill it.
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On July 26 2017 20:00 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2017 18:08 DarkCore wrote:I think Lux might show up as Support a bit more now. Increasing her shield is pretty strong. The problem is her ult does nothing for a support. I'm curious if it's good enough. I think Zyra is a better support in pretty much every way. Only thing Lux has going for her is shields, but Zyra is a much better tank buster, which is also where the meta is. Uh, did Kayn get even stronger? I don't like that at all, even if it's just bug fixes. The two are not remotely similar ... Zyra is definitely a stronger support but Lux has much stronger single-target CC + damage. Lux level 6 combo is over 600 damage and a 2.5 AP ratio plus a 2s root; Zyra is nowhere close to that.
Someone else already answered it, but yeah, Zyra support does more damage (forget about ratios, Zyra plants are just far more reliable for lane harass), and is more reliable with her damage (massive AoE ult, plants). Lux has the range, but that's not exactly Zyra's weak point either. A fed Zyra support can practically 1vs1 the enemy ADC in early/mid game. Plus with Liandries she's a decent tank shredder, there have multiple instances in LCK where Zyra support did the most damage on her team.
How exactly does Lux have better single target CC? Her binding can only go through one unit (probably the biggest reason Lux isn't top tier), and Zyra can chain her ult knockup.
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Even if Lux were better than Zyra, noone plays Zyra anyway right now, so it doesn't really matter whether a champ is better than her.
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comparing lux and zyra is stupid anyway, lux doesn't have plants to block hooks which is a big reason why shes even viable bot in the first place
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I feel like galio is increasingly mediocre but people play him because they know him.
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Dunno why sup lux is even discussed. She sucks. Itll just help mid lux buff up her maokais and carries
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On July 27 2017 05:47 cLutZ wrote:
I feel like galio is increasingly mediocre but people play him because they know him.
I hate new Galio so much, He feels like a character designed for playing against more than playing as if that makes sense. Riot just gave him crazy numbers out of the gate to garuntee a pickrate they could point to to call the rework a success
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I mean...
Did anyone think that was a good idea?
o.O
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On July 27 2017 06:38 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2017 05:47 cLutZ wrote:
I feel like galio is increasingly mediocre but people play him because they know him. I hate new Galio so much, He feels like a character designed for playing against more than playing as if that makes sense. Riot just gave him crazy numbers out of the gate to garuntee a pickrate they could point to to call the rework a success
I didn't play old Galio so I don't really care, but you are right that they reworked him with crazy numbers, and now that they toned him down the kit is pretty lame. That said, he will probably stay in the pro meta for a while because pro teams crazy crave supportive solo lane champions that can "go even" and buff up ADCs. Solo lane Lulu kinda sucks, and Ori is not a perfect fit for every team.
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On July 27 2017 10:33 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2017 06:38 Slusher wrote:On July 27 2017 05:47 cLutZ wrote:
I feel like galio is increasingly mediocre but people play him because they know him. I hate new Galio so much, He feels like a character designed for playing against more than playing as if that makes sense. Riot just gave him crazy numbers out of the gate to garuntee a pickrate they could point to to call the rework a success I didn't play old Galio so I don't really care, but you are right that they reworked him with crazy numbers, and now that they toned him down the kit is pretty lame. That said, he will probably stay in the pro meta for a while because pro teams crazy crave supportive solo lane champions that can "go even" and buff up ADCs. Solo lane Lulu kinda sucks, and Ori is not a perfect fit for every team.
given my general attitude toward reworks I can see where flaming the winrate could distract from my point but I'm just saying I really dislike new Galio in the sense that his skills are so "fair". As if it was designed by the kind of player who sends you hate mail after a loss in a fighting game. Luckily Kayne has dispelled my concerns that this was a design philosophy going forward. Even though blue form sucks (on last patch) for instance he has plenty of "cheap" stuff thats fun to use.
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On July 27 2017 11:39 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2017 10:33 cLutZ wrote:On July 27 2017 06:38 Slusher wrote:On July 27 2017 05:47 cLutZ wrote:
I feel like galio is increasingly mediocre but people play him because they know him. I hate new Galio so much, He feels like a character designed for playing against more than playing as if that makes sense. Riot just gave him crazy numbers out of the gate to garuntee a pickrate they could point to to call the rework a success I didn't play old Galio so I don't really care, but you are right that they reworked him with crazy numbers, and now that they toned him down the kit is pretty lame. That said, he will probably stay in the pro meta for a while because pro teams crazy crave supportive solo lane champions that can "go even" and buff up ADCs. Solo lane Lulu kinda sucks, and Ori is not a perfect fit for every team. given my general attitude toward reworks I can see where flaming the winrate could distract from my point but I'm just saying I really dislike new Galio in the sense that his skills are so "fair". As if it was designed by the kind of player who sends you hate mail after a loss in a fighting game. Luckily Kayne has dispelled my concerns that this was a design philosophy going forward. Even though blue form sucks (on last patch) for instance he has plenty of "cheap" stuff thats fun to use.
I don't think his skills are fair. They're horribly abusive at a team level, which is why pro teams like him so much, and why he needed his numbers nerfed.
Also, its not like his old skills were particularly interesting. 2 generic nukes with speedup/slow, a buff, and the same taunt, but worse. His ult got a major buff in the 'unfair' department. I would call this rework a success because now galio has an interesting ult, and they removed a dead and uninteresting skill.
Its just tanks are inherently boring because they're stat balls.
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It's all subjective but I think there are a lot of tanks that are fun to play that don't jump backwards before there dash saying "HERE I COME GUYS"
I guess it's just a stupidly arbitrary topic, because I find Voli fun and he's one of the most "fair" champs in the game, but Galio Q and E and even w to an extent feel as though they are designed to be fun for the opponent and not the player.
(This opinion is independent of the removal of old galio)
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On July 27 2017 10:33 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2017 06:38 Slusher wrote:On July 27 2017 05:47 cLutZ wrote:
I feel like galio is increasingly mediocre but people play him because they know him. I hate new Galio so much, He feels like a character designed for playing against more than playing as if that makes sense. Riot just gave him crazy numbers out of the gate to garuntee a pickrate they could point to to call the rework a success I didn't play old Galio so I don't really care, but you are right that they reworked him with crazy numbers, and now that they toned him down the kit is pretty lame. That said, he will probably stay in the pro meta for a while because pro teams crazy crave supportive solo lane champions that can "go even" and buff up ADCs. Solo lane Lulu kinda sucks, and Ori is not a perfect fit for every team.
Old Galio actually would be really good in this meta, barring an issue with numbers maybe. QWQWQR Old Galio could hold down a lane vs pretty much anyone who wasnt fiora. I feel like that new galio could have been a new champ (like most reworks) and we wouldnt have had to lose a champ from the game.
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On July 27 2017 14:01 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2017 10:33 cLutZ wrote:On July 27 2017 06:38 Slusher wrote:On July 27 2017 05:47 cLutZ wrote:
I feel like galio is increasingly mediocre but people play him because they know him. I hate new Galio so much, He feels like a character designed for playing against more than playing as if that makes sense. Riot just gave him crazy numbers out of the gate to garuntee a pickrate they could point to to call the rework a success I didn't play old Galio so I don't really care, but you are right that they reworked him with crazy numbers, and now that they toned him down the kit is pretty lame. That said, he will probably stay in the pro meta for a while because pro teams crazy crave supportive solo lane champions that can "go even" and buff up ADCs. Solo lane Lulu kinda sucks, and Ori is not a perfect fit for every team. Old Galio actually would be really good in this meta, barring an issue with numbers maybe. QWQWQR Old Galio could hold down a lane vs pretty much anyone who wasnt fiora. I feel like that new galio could have been a new champ (like most reworks) and we wouldnt have had to lose a champ from the game.
Speaking purely from the pro meta perspective, how good was he at damage reduction? From what I recall he had serious issues like ult being cancelled by just about everything and his shield thing being weird.
The reason current Galio (aka not overpowered numbers Galio) is getting played still in the pros is because of his early waveclear, semi-global, and DR.
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his shield was actually really good, his Q was about the same as now, good waveclear, not easy to hit champs unless CC'd, but if you hit one you could psuedo chain them. Mostly his E was an ability that did the damage of a utility spell with the utility of a damage spell if that makes sense lol. His Taunt was better in some ways but worse in others, he got nerfed when he was meta way back in s2 where the damage was heavily based on channel duration, and someone had suggested going back to the old way, which maybe could have made him meta, but probably not? Samsung seemed to think he was good in s4 for some reason that to this day nobody knows, but he was a heavily contested pick in blue vs white matches, which is like the only play he's seen since s2.
Moreso than other reworks I hate this one less in the sense that I think old Galio also would have needed absurd numbers to see play with that kit, but I'm just not a fan of removing champs from the game even though I had exactly 1 game on Galio last season. (it was actually my best game of the season according to that end of the season report thingy that riot did lol)
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On July 27 2017 14:26 cLutZ wrote:
Speaking purely from the pro meta perspective, how good was he at damage reduction? From what I recall he had serious issues like ult being cancelled by just about everything and his shield thing being weird.
The reason current Galio (aka not overpowered numbers Galio) is getting played still in the pros is because of his early waveclear, semi-global, and DR.
His Bulwark gave him (or an ally) 50/60/70/80/90 MR/Armor, and he healed on each damage instance dealt to his target. His Passive giving him AP for MR also worked with the W.
He was pretty much unkillable with QWQWQ. Stuff like Rumble/Maokai/Shen in the current meta would struggle vs old Galio. He literally would heal from OLD flamespitter, so newer weaker flamespitter is even worse, shen does damage too slowly, and new maokai vs old galio would be a war of who gets bored first. Cho would cause some issues for old galio, but i mean.... Cho is overtuned a bit still. Oh geez I know its not pro meta, but i rememer darius vs Galio top was hilarious, because once you disengaged your Bulwark would heal you back to full off his passive.
Old Galio Wavecleared at roughly the same speed, but slower for cannon waves because new passive is so strong for that. He's missing out on the long range ult, Damage reduction is roughly the same as new as galio (25/30/35/40/45% EHP on his Bulwark, and an additional 50% damage reduction when channeling his ult)
Old galio is kind of a defensive rumble, in that he provided a lot of damage, but his skillset was focused on counter-initiating, rather than initiating
Old Galio did have mobility issues, as his old E was pretty much just the secondary effect of kled ult but weaker and with damage attached, But New Righteous glory would go a long way in fixing that. His ult would get cancelled if you used it poorly, or vs like Udyr. But the current pro meta especially doesnt have too many ways to stop his ult, outside of the support role or like ashe
his shield was actually really good, his Q was about the same as now, good waveclear, not easy to hit champs unless CC'd, but if you hit one you could psuedo chain them.
Bulwark was top tier in terms of self survival, and really really good at protect the ally type comps, especially with pre-channeling his ult vs stuff like zed ult or leblanc or lee sin. His Q, Functioned pretty similar to how Soraka Q does. but the animation style is totally different, and it gets windwalled. If you used smite at your feet it was instant after the windup, and a guaranteed hit, barring a predictive flash or insane reaction speed flash. I miss that champ. He'd be totally functional if his base movespeed was 10 higher and his mana costs were modernized. (90/80/80/150 is very old school for current league). He might need a 15 damage bump on his Q, because of minion health changes since then though.
A lot of galios would use that instant Q thing to break his ult channel. and deal ~1000 burst.
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Q base damage was def not the problem lol
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lol PX his ult would be canceled by anything that had Merc treads...
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On July 27 2017 16:46 iCanada wrote:
lol PX his ult would be canceled by anything that had Merc treads...
Errr, well yes. tenacity exists. But like, Mercs is not a common thing these days Like it was the default boots half the time when old galio was popular. and also like if you are playing a champ that uses CC for timing and not playing around the tenacity of your opponent you are fucking up. AOE CC for 1.75 Seconds with Merc treads is still really solid. It's comparable to every CC immune to Tenacity.
And mostly the galio ult peak use wasn't group CC. though the flash ult is neat, the big thing was setting up a field of CC that your carries cant be dove inside.
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I mean, wouldn't Syndra be a problem for his old Ult?
What I remember was he was basically the best champ in the game vs. double AP, except his ult was hard to use properly. Again, all my EXP with Galio is basically from watching pro play. I never say a good old galio except in S2 when he was used in early laneswaps with like Hotshot playing him.
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On July 27 2017 16:51 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, wouldn't Syndra be a problem for his old Ult?
What I remember was he was basically the best champ in the game vs. double AP, except his ult was hard to use properly. Again, all my EXP with Galio is basically from watching pro play. I never say a good old galio except in S2 when he was used in early laneswaps with like Hotshot playing him.
Yeah Syndra is The big threat really. but then again Syndra kinda fucks with current galio too.
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My experience with OLD Galio is that most of the game was just frustrating because your Ult never worked, honestly.
I used to play him quite a bit in soloqueue, but especially after they added tenacity to masteries was just pointless.
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Old Galio had his ult often cancelled because Udyr and Xin Zhao were meta the last time he was heavily played.
You'd just pick him against Talon bot because level 1 Bulwark was enough to heal off of his q.
He more or less stopped being playable top when Chalice got hit with nerfs because if was his first item even against a full AD comp, non-negotiable, with his high costs and low-ish mana pool (I think I remember his innate mp5 being decent tho).
And his ult used to not suffer as much from Mercury Threads, riot changed something under the hood at some point and then you could straight walk out of it if you spammed right-clicks away with Mercs. Also mobility creep when he needs his flash to initiate (man I remember the good old days of solo lane Morgana).
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On July 27 2017 21:31 Alaric wrote:
Old Galio had his ult often cancelled because Udyr and Xin Zhao were meta the last time he was heavily played.
You'd just pick him against Talon bot because level 1 Bulwark was enough to heal off of his q.
He more or less stopped being playable top when Chalice got hit with nerfs because if was his first item even against a full AD comp, non-negotiable, with his high costs and low-ish mana pool (I think I remember his innate mp5 being decent tho).
And his ult used to not suffer as much from Mercury Threads, riot changed something under the hood at some point and then you could straight walk out of it if you spammed right-clicks away with Mercs. Also mobility creep when he needs his flash to initiate (man I remember the good old days of solo lane Morgana).
yeah, I did not know what it was, but the last thing I remember from playing the old galio was that somehow some people were either breaking the ult or going out of it for no particular reason as much as I could assess. Champs like jinx, jarvan etc.
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On July 27 2017 16:54 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2017 16:51 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, wouldn't Syndra be a problem for his old Ult?
What I remember was he was basically the best champ in the game vs. double AP, except his ult was hard to use properly. Again, all my EXP with Galio is basically from watching pro play. I never say a good old galio except in S2 when he was used in early laneswaps with like Hotshot playing him. Yeah Syndra is The big threat really. but then again Syndra kinda fucks with current galio too.
Disagree. I like galio into syndra whether in lane or out. In lane I can just adaptive helm easy peasy and if not in lane can deny so much of her damage or pick potential with ult.
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Galio discussions are particularly jarring to me while skimming.
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So uh, Does anyone even buy the new Zekes item? it feels worse than the old one in every way.
Though i guess it's kinda okay for like.... Junglers? I guess you could go Cinderhulk -> Knights -> Zekes -> Locket on tank junglers, and snag a bunch of armor/mres/HP/CDR. Kayn is the only champ that uses the bonus effectively outside of alistar and it seems not great on him.
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I've not seen a good consistent use case. I think they effectively killed it with the rework. Stat distribution is decent, but leaves a lot to be desired.
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On July 28 2017 01:29 Gahlo wrote:
I've not seen a good consistent use case. I think they effectively killed it with the rework. Stat distribution is decent, but leaves a lot to be desired.
Its like they had a cool effect, but technical limitations prevented them from both allowing you to select an ally AND activate the item to activate it at will, so they tied it to your ultimate, without figuring out if there were any champs that WANT to use their ultimate and then stand next to an opponent.
the definition of forcing a design into a place it doesnt belong. It would have been strictly better to just be an offensive locket. give % AP/AD xD
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That item should be the most optimal on Leona and Leonas never buy it. Dunno how Riot could buff it without making it broken.
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I just don't see how it's ever better than Knights Vow, Aegis, Redemption, Mikaels, or other options.
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On July 28 2017 02:22 Sent. wrote:
That item should be the most optimal on Leona and Leonas never buy it. Dunno how Riot could buff it without making it broken.
don't know about that one.
like leona dives in on squishies zekes is an item that helps you focus the front line with your adc
I have a diamond leona one trick on my flist (we won a legit 4v5 with adc dc at 3 minutes) who goes ward item-->locket-->knights vow--> some combo of thornmail/frozen heart/randuins with mobo boots as full build
i don't know why people think knights vow/zekes are optimal on tanks. The people who want the knights vow healing the most are usually bruisers who need to stay healthy to do damage, Tanks like leona braum malphite or something are already really tanky and tend to be looking to buy utility or cdr.
Tanks supports usually want the knights vow for the 12% less dmg on their AD, but usually the AD doesn't take that much damage anyway, so the healing is really nice on bruisery champs.
Similarly with zekes it's really nice on juggernaught type champs who like to have the slow and like to boost their adcs damage so they can manfight tanks favourably.in tfs.
The main problems with zekes are
1: Doesn't give any HP when its the hardest stat to get. Loads of really good resist items locket/stoneplate
2: Lots of insanely broken other tank items to compete with e.g locket, knights vow, RG
With leona who already gets free resists it seems like you want to favour stuff like
-the anti healing thornmail so you dont give free healing to ads
-randuins for the slow and drastically reduced dmg from ads
-other utility items like locket RG
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On July 28 2017 02:42 Slayer91 wrote:
Similarly with zekes it's really nice on juggernaught type champs who like to have the slow and like to boost their adcs damage so they can manfight tanks favourably.in tfs.
But like, what Juggernaut uses their ult in a way that would even benefit from a 20% slow, who wouldnt just rather Righteous glory for the bigger slow, speed boost and better stats?
Darius, Garen both prefer using ults to kill not set up fights, Mundo Maybe? but no health, and mana instead, Volibear? no Health, Yorick's Ult isn't really used that way, Trundle? but Trundle prefers a different bit of stats, Olaf? no, Shyv? Manaless. Illaoi maybe? Nasus? i guess, but he likes different items first so it'd be pretty late....
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the numbers don't lie, best place to test that shit is ARAM. go buy zeke's in aram and see for yourself how useless it is. Then you buy vow and its like what is this insanely broken item? Vow is so good that I sometimes forego sightstone for it if my adc is really good
if you want to do that playstyle just run janna/sona/nami and get ardent instead, way better
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ive had good numbers on zekes on udyr
but stopped getting it because you lack hp, maybe okay with cinderhulk build though, forgot about it a bit because new RG is too good
aram isnt the best testing ground.. otherwise sona would be a god
zekes is a hard engage item which is exactly whats terrible in aram
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I used to go cinderhulk RG zekes Skarner
probably your best bet to use that item, but not sure if thats ideal either. Gargoyles probably just better buy in most situaitons.
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On July 28 2017 03:24 Slayer91 wrote:
ive had good numbers on zekes on udyr
but stopped getting it because you lack hp, maybe okay with cinderhulk build though, forgot about it a bit because new RG is too good
aram isnt the best testing ground.. otherwise sona would be a god
zekes is a hard engage item which is exactly whats terrible in aram
sona is god though, at least on NA.
highly abused support in higher elo here by mains/semi mains like consensualclown
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everyone plays blitz/thresh now i cba to play sona anymore lol
janna way more broken
sona is the highest wr champ until like platinum
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Every Blitz in my game makes me think of the Shaco syndrome: my Blitz is terrible, but the other one is godly. Last game their Blitz managed to hook me at max range from a brush three times, and he did fantastic roams. The last one I had supporting me was a worse caster minion, at least they get agroe'd when you take harass from the enemy champ.
If people ban Zac and Kayn before me, I tend to ban him as well. Especially because I feel half my supports have no idea how to play against him in lane (if he misses hook, please harass him.)
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On July 28 2017 04:07 DarkCore wrote:
Every Blitz in my game makes me think of the Shaco syndrome: my Blitz is terrible, but the other one is godly. Last game their Blitz managed to hook me at max range from a brush three times, and he did fantastic roams. The last one I had supporting me was a worse caster minion, at least they get agroe'd when you take harass from the enemy champ.
If people ban Zac and Kayn before me, I tend to ban him as well. Especially because I feel half my supports have no idea how to play against him in lane (if he misses hook, please harass him.)
why would anyone ban kayn? am I missing something? also zac ban is kind of doable too, but I can understand that more or less
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Because kayn is annoying. Hes like a jungle aurelion sol with his ridicuous gank paths. I ban him sometimes even if I generally win vs him cause hes that annoying.
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btw the secret pro way to hit galio E without being super obvious is to get close and E behind you
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On July 28 2017 11:21 Slayer91 wrote:
btw the secret pro way to hit galio E without being super obvious is to get close and E behind you
says teutonica after demoting me in duoQ, forcing me to play some solo games to get back to dia2
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You are saying skarner all day is not going well?
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Goes 1/8/3, blames Teut. Typical behaviour.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On July 28 2017 16:28 Fildun wrote:
Goes 1/8/3, blames Teut. Typical behaviour.
I am allergic to playing CUCK jungler playstyles. I went back to my roots afterwards and did great.
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nothing wrong with skarner if your team can make it to teamfights. i got a pretty good winrate with him this season, new RG is busted on him
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Arg looks like I have to start banning Kayn since people keep picking him top lane or just picking him in general when he's garbage. Mainly top lane though, holy shit why would you ever think that's a good idea.
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Keep in mind that scips definition of cuck jungling is "getting the ward item" and otherwise nothings changed.
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On July 28 2017 22:05 Numy wrote:
Arg looks like I have to start banning Kayn since people keep picking him top lane or just picking him in general when he's garbage. Mainly top lane though, holy shit why would you ever think that's a good idea.
Top is the edgelord position. Scythes, I swear in everything, are the edgelord weapon.
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It's real real bad when you arent snowballing, but duskblade Shadow Kayn is pretty much like Peak Khazix in terms of one shot ability, since they fixed his passive to work with thunderlords and duskblade.
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The problem is going top you get assblasted by every single hero in the game even top Janna! At least jungle Kayn can rely on his teammates doing most of the winning and him just being there to pick up the snowball.
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On July 28 2017 22:40 PrinceXizor wrote:
It's real real bad when you arent snowballing, but duskblade Shadow Kayn is pretty much like Peak Khazix in terms of one shot ability, since they fixed his passive to work with thunderlords and duskblade.
Yeah, that's one of his problems. My main problem with him though is he's like prerework Rek, his potential to be anywhere on the map is too damn high past mid game. I had a game where Draven was able to 1vs2 the lane simply because we couldn't risk pushing in to get the turret or else Kayn would come and destroy us (though granted, my support didn't ward either).
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On July 28 2017 15:57 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2017 11:21 Slayer91 wrote:
btw the secret pro way to hit galio E without being super obvious is to get close and E behind you says teutonica after demoting me in duoQ, forcing me to play some solo games to get back to dia2
as if it wasnt the fact that one our team mates refuesd to play in all the games we lost that weren't you getting severly outjungled
AND i was trying to practice galio and ended up against the biggest fucking one tricks who also are strong against my champion in lane
playing at 3 am is seriously toxic LOL
out of about 7 games had 3 games where a guy was pushing one lane and refusing to play for some minuscule micro aggression such as taking one wave and the guy didn't like the response to the flame for taking one wave
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Shiiiit I just got my first honor capsule, it had a champion shard and 5 (five) key fragments. Hope these will drop as often as normal key fragments did when I was on honor 2
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You hit honor 3? Never got a capsule.
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Got it yesterday and the capsule dropped when I logged on today
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That's pretty cool. Thought it'd not give anything. Nice little bonus. The system itself seems to not solve much as whoever carries the most just tends to get the honor and people still rage flame 24/7 in EU anyway :<. But hey I'm not complaining if they give free shit lol.
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On July 26 2017 05:28 VayneAuthority wrote:
zac - significant nerfs when other champs in his expertise were already on the rise like maokai and sejuani. Not weak but definitely no reason to pick him competitively now i'd think.
Maybe now Zac isn't banned in 95%+ of games? That's my metric for how OP a champion is lol
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I think there was a hotfix to honor required around ~130am cst last night. Everyone in my post game lobby hit rank 3 for the first time.
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On August 01 2017 02:46 Numy wrote:
That's pretty cool. Thought it'd not give anything. Nice little bonus. The system itself seems to not solve much as whoever carries the most just tends to get the honor and people still rage flame 24/7 in EU anyway :<. But hey I'm not complaining if they give free shit lol.
lol pretty much, except I guess "stayed cool" is a low key flame for feeding in na challenger
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Any tips for csing while pushing as zilian. As in 1-2 item timing needing to clear the wave quickly while going at least 5/6 non cannon wave.
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On August 01 2017 02:37 Sent. wrote:
Shiiiit I just got my first honor capsule, it had a champion shard and 5 (five) key fragments. Hope these will drop as often as normal key fragments did when I was on honor 2
I've been honor level 3 for about a week and havent gotten one so I assume its really random
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On August 01 2017 08:22 Slusher wrote:
Any tips for csing while pushing as zilian. As in 1-2 item timing needing to clear the wave quickly while going at least 5/6 non cannon wave.
usually just having them as clustered as possible then double bombing while autoing the cannon minion gets the job done
one of the easier champs to do so with lol
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I mean specifically when you have to choose between front and back, hence the no cannon
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qwq on front and then q on back.
its a little slower but if you cant one shot melee minions with 1 q then u cant help it i think.
otherwise u just throw 1 q each and let your autos and minions bring the melee minions' hp down
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On August 01 2017 10:19 Slusher wrote:
I mean specifically when you have to choose between front and back, hence the no cannon
what do you mean choose between front and back? can't you just overlap the bombs on both?
if you have no time to have them cluster and have to kill immediately as they are walking in a straight line and have to stay at a distance (for ex when getting sieged) you have no choice but to just aim one at the front and one at back unless you have someone else helping with waveclear.
back requires just 1 q
if you want a more specific scenario, give more details since there are just too many different situations here
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maybe I just need more games
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overlapping bombs on both is pretty difficult sometimes. if u chuck a q into the middle it ends up latching on to a minion on the front or back and the radius doesnt reach far enough usually to hit all minions, which is where slusher gets his "choosing" scenario from
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catch up exp in action, idk what is riot balance team thinking
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I mean if you spent your time clearing graves jungle then he gets bonus xp for being under level when new camp spawns. If you spent your time killing graves and opening up towers to make his jungle unsafe he gets nothing. can't just mindlessly clear and say you win.
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"We've already hamstrung this position in terms of gold, let's not make it so the player is absolutely useless after 10 minutes."
Do think it's tuned a little too high though.
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Jungle is by far the least fun role to me right now and I find myself getting filled to it more and more often so I guess people agree
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On August 01 2017 21:55 Gahlo wrote:"We've already hamstrung this position in terms of gold, let's not make it so the player is absolutely useless after 10 minutes." Do think it's tuned a little too high though.
I'm not really sure why this is suddenly becoming such a big community thing. League has had catchup mechanics for so long. This seems just like another fad that the community decides to be outraged by. It may be a little overtuned but it's inline with how league has been for years.
Hell we just had an LCK game this morning show how a good jungler can absolutely destroy his opponent in terms of XP and gold.
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yea I don't really see the issue. It's really obvious when some one get outjungled and ive never been like "dang that 0-5 reksai that is the same level as everyone is just as strong still wtf!" no they usually feel behind in gold and everything. The only people that complain about this are the 5-5-4 lee sins that sure they helped their team quite a bit early, but you also died a lot and are playing lee now. You didn't do well enough to offset the other jungler powerfarming after getting behind for it to matter.
Before this was implemented it was the literal reason you could only play lee/elise/reksai/gragas because losing the level 1-5 meant gg for the rest of the game for good players since they just track you at all times and all you can do is sit in your jg and cry with your "lategame"
Now we actually see a variety of picks because both playstyles are viable
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On August 02 2017 00:49 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2017 21:55 Gahlo wrote:"We've already hamstrung this position in terms of gold, let's not make it so the player is absolutely useless after 10 minutes." Do think it's tuned a little too high though. I'm not really sure why this is suddenly becoming such a big community thing. League has had catchup mechanics for so long. This seems just like another fad that the community decides to be outraged by. It may be a little overtuned but it's inline with how league has been for years. Hell we just had an LCK game this morning show how a good jungler can absolutely destroy his opponent in terms of XP and gold.
Majority of things are viewed from a laner's standpoint. Crush an opposing laner and assuming they farm decently, they're behind in levels and slightly in itemization. With the way the jungle is, it's reversed. They're behind in gold and slightly in levels.
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yep getting ahead in jungle xp can be really wonky
they get so much xp from assists so catch up +a few assists vs higher level guys instantly catches them up
but he can never reclaim the 160 gold that you stole from his golem camps huehuehue
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On August 02 2017 02:16 VayneAuthority wrote:
yea I don't really see the issue. It's really obvious when some one get outjungled and ive never been like "dang that 0-5 reksai that is the same level as everyone is just as strong still wtf!" no they usually feel behind in gold and everything. The only people that complain about this are the 5-5-4 lee sins that sure they helped their team quite a bit early, but you also died a lot and are playing lee now. You didn't do well enough to offset the other jungler powerfarming after getting behind for it to matter.
Before this was implemented it was the literal reason you could only play lee/elise/reksai/gragas because losing the level 1-5 meant gg for the rest of the game for good players since they just track you at all times and all you can do is sit in your jg and cry with your "lategame"
Now we actually see a variety of picks because both playstyles are viable
well tarzaned and silas complain about it a lot and neither of them is lee player
tarzaned even made reddit thread about it
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6qvxdg/jungle_is_in_a_terrible_spot_right_now/
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i mean catchup xp is clearly way overtuned if you lose a lane you're often 1-2 levels behind but as a jungler its very easy to stay close to the same level even with much less farm
its not the problem with the 5-5-4 lee players its about the 1-1-12 mobos maokai/sejuani player who hasn't done golem camp all game and doesn't care about being 1-2 k behind in farm because they can just camp lanes
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On August 02 2017 02:53 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2017 02:16 VayneAuthority wrote:
yea I don't really see the issue. It's really obvious when some one get outjungled and ive never been like "dang that 0-5 reksai that is the same level as everyone is just as strong still wtf!" no they usually feel behind in gold and everything. The only people that complain about this are the 5-5-4 lee sins that sure they helped their team quite a bit early, but you also died a lot and are playing lee now. You didn't do well enough to offset the other jungler powerfarming after getting behind for it to matter.
Before this was implemented it was the literal reason you could only play lee/elise/reksai/gragas because losing the level 1-5 meant gg for the rest of the game for good players since they just track you at all times and all you can do is sit in your jg and cry with your "lategame"
Now we actually see a variety of picks because both playstyles are viable well tarzaned and silas complain about it a lot and neither of them is lee player tarzaned even made reddit thread about it https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6qvxdg/jungle_is_in_a_terrible_spot_right_now/
It's gotten to a point where supports have a better chance at impacting the map than you do.
lol
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i mean jungle is probably still the most impactful role in solo q for the most part, although middle laners with good roam are probably stronger if they can win lane
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eh gotta look at it in perspective. Tarzaned was a graves abuser last season to get high rank and now hes still high elo but pretty irrelevant. Of course hes gonna blame it on the jg and not himself given his nature.
If I recall the silas guy fairly toxic as well and was a zac/rek 2 trick or something? and both got reworked/have see a lot of bans lately.
Im not surprised both of them hate jg for reasons they are improperly externalizing.
There is a lower amount of jungle mains then usual at the top of the ladder, but still a significant amount. This is what happens when you're used to being by far the strongest role and then oh no! its somewhat balanced now and you don't have a massive impact on every game.
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from what what i know silas wasnt even chat restricted, i follow few jungle mains on twitter (mostly pro players) and they all complained about catch up xp even crumbz during todays lck match said he isnt happy with it.
Yes jungle was OP for 1 season idk how u keep complain about that and yet be fine with mid being broken 6 season in row, also if u havent noticed they dont want jungle role buffs but changes to the way it works right now.
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Role mains are always the clearest and most reasonable about their position. Just like how ADC mains were completely justified in their constant whining of being underpowered.
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I don't think mid can ever not be op based on location. Case in point the role isn't even considered weak when stuff like lulu karma and zilian are being played.
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On August 02 2017 05:13 Slusher wrote:
I don't think mid can ever not be op based on location. Case in point the role isn't even considered weak when stuff like lulu karma and zilian are being played.
Riot's game design is also a lot more favorable to AP champions
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On August 02 2017 05:21 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2017 05:13 Slusher wrote:
I don't think mid can ever not be op based on location. Case in point the role isn't even considered weak when stuff like lulu karma and zilian are being played. Riot's game design is also a lot more favorable to AP champions
I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori.
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Yea the short lane def gives you an advantage in viability again another advantage related to it's location.
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Tarzaned is really good, but listening to his stream with all the whining and dripping sarcasm is tiring, honestly not surprised he made that reddit thread. It's interesting that he doesn't play Lee Sin and still made it so far up the ladder, proof that you don't actually need to be a Lee god to dominate soloQ (except now his own champion pool has been nerfed).
I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori.
I don't think mid lane is particularly dominated by any one item right now, that's exactly why we see so many different champions there. The last 'meta-defining item' in the mid lane I can think of is Morellos, back when everyone had to get it first item.
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Had LCs not been played on a hotfix you would have seen duskblade mid priority
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On August 02 2017 06:31 DarkCore wrote:Tarzaned is really good, but listening to his stream with all the whining and dripping sarcasm is tiring, honestly not surprised he made that reddit thread. It's interesting that he doesn't play Lee Sin and still made it so far up the ladder, proof that you don't actually need to be a Lee god to dominate soloQ (except now his own champion pool has been nerfed). Show nested quote +I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori.
I don't think mid lane is particularly dominated by any one item right now, that's exactly why we see so many different champions there. The last 'meta-defining item' in the mid lane I can think of is Morellos, back when everyone had to get it first item.
Yes for sure. Like what slushey said, the short lane means there isn't a "requirement" for viability like there are for the jungle and top. Although, waveclear is a sort of bar, and its a shame that champs like Ryze and Leblanc have continued to be reworked into reliable waveclearers when that was kind of the charm of them.
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On August 02 2017 06:31 DarkCore wrote:Tarzaned is really good, but listening to his stream with all the whining and dripping sarcasm is tiring, honestly not surprised he made that reddit thread. It's interesting that he doesn't play Lee Sin and still made it so far up the ladder, proof that you don't actually need to be a Lee god to dominate soloQ (except now his own champion pool has been nerfed). Show nested quote +I think, to the contrary, that its strength is its the only position that can always shift champs to take advantage of the strongest items. ARP is in, so are Zed & Talon. AP Burst? There are assassins. DPS? Cassio. Crit is strong, support your AD with Ori. I don't think mid lane is particularly dominated by any one item right now, that's exactly why we see so many different champions there. The last 'meta-defining item' in the mid lane I can think of is Morellos, back when everyone had to get it first item.
i mean the guy is literally a worse version of xj9
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is he? last time i heard about xj9 he was stuck in d2 trolling with fervor vi
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I dont think xj9 was ever the same after the thing with his girlfriend. Im worried he never will
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lee sin ruined his life 
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
The whole catch-up XP meme is very misleading. Without getting into why catch-up XP is super necessary for the game (which VA already got into), there's a bunch of unintelligent people that are conflating catch-up XP with 1) jungle CS, which has never accurately predicted XP gained, and 2) the fact that level differentials naturally shrink over time because of the increased XP required to level up. If you gain a 500 XP advantage over your opponent, that's nearly a 2 level lead at the start of a game, and less than a third of a level lead by the end of the game.
The proof that catch-up XP isn't nearly as strong as they make it out to be is that mid lane XP is usually much closer despite much more dramatic differentials. For example, in LZ v KT game 2, Crumbz was all over the catchup XP and how Score was "only" 2 levels up on Cuzz despite being 1/0/4 to 0/3/1 and 126 to 52 CS. When meanwhile the 3-0-4 Pawn and the 0-1-0 Bdd were the same level for most of the game despite major KDA/CS advantages for Pawn.
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United States15536 Posts
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On August 07 2017 14:33 GrandInquisitor wrote:
The whole catch-up XP meme is very misleading. Without getting into why catch-up XP is super necessary for the game (which VA already got into), there's a bunch of unintelligent people that are conflating catch-up XP with 1) jungle CS, which has never accurately predicted XP gained, and 2) the fact that level differentials naturally shrink over time because of the increased XP required to level up. If you gain a 500 XP advantage over your opponent, that's nearly a 2 level lead at the start of a game, and less than a third of a level lead by the end of the game.
The proof that catch-up XP isn't nearly as strong as they make it out to be is that mid lane XP is usually much closer despite much more dramatic differentials. For example, in LZ v KT game 2, Crumbz was all over the catchup XP and how Score was "only" 2 levels up on Cuzz despite being 1/0/4 to 0/3/1 and 126 to 52 CS. When meanwhile the 3-0-4 Pawn and the 0-1-0 Bdd were the same level for most of the game despite major KDA/CS advantages for Pawn.
I think it's just the new flavour of the mouth thing to complain about. People latch on to a certain "flaw" and then try rationalize everything in terms of that even if it doesn't make much sense. League is actually very punishing for teams that fall behind. Items don't lose efficiency with gold, stats scale in a non-linear fashion some roles and there are very few ways to fight through a gold disadvantage due to homogeneous power curves. If they removed comeback mechanics it would just mean that the only phase of the game that matters is the very first one.
Dota in contrast is actually fairly forgiving compared to league. Items lose gold efficiency while gaining slot efficiency, power curves aren't homogeneous, initiation is far stronger, vision avoidance is stronger etc.
I disliked the overall trend of removing individual's ability to impact the game over the team element that they trended towards throughout the seasons but I do think they doing a much better job of balancing. Last year(or was it year before) I recall how utterly powerless I felt in the game as it just always tended to 1 big teamfight into lose or defeat and nothing else mattered. This fad will blow over, hell it might have blown over already lol.
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The ones who complain seem to be those who have played the game long enough to remember the days when counter jungling was introduced and was a big thing. The days of S2 Shyv and Lee , who legit lived in the enemy jungle and would destroy games when they got ahead because the enemy jungler became irrelevant. Riot spent a good few years trying to get the jungle sorted out, remember all the items they released to try and constant adjusting of how jungle creeps work? Not to mention adding jungle camps precisely to prevent champions from being zoned from their own jungle (less camps mean it's easier to deny when ahead).
I've never been a jungle main, but imo the nice thing about catch up XP is that it evens out the difference in power between heavy gankers and farming champs. It means that if Lee does nothing but gank, while Yi does nothing but farm, neither is going to find themselves at a major lv advantage, both are viable ways to play the game.
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Yah, he looks pretty insane. Interested to see what exactly his abilities are.
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On August 08 2017 05:40 DarkCore wrote:
The ones who complain seem to be those who have played the game long enough to remember the days when counter jungling was introduced and was a big thing. The days of S2 Shyv and Lee , who legit lived in the enemy jungle and would destroy games when they got ahead because the enemy jungler became irrelevant. Riot spent a good few years trying to get the jungle sorted out, remember all the items they released to try and constant adjusting of how jungle creeps work? Not to mention adding jungle camps precisely to prevent champions from being zoned from their own jungle (less camps mean it's easier to deny when ahead).
I've never been a jungle main, but imo the nice thing about catch up XP is that it evens out the difference in power between heavy gankers and farming champs. It means that if Lee does nothing but gank, while Yi does nothing but farm, neither is going to find themselves at a major lv advantage, both are viable ways to play the game.
Its funny that you point out this because in S2, before all the changes, just camping solo lanes with GP5 items was the dominant jungler paradigm at the highest levels for a long time.
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Also having boots and oracles then playing like a massive pussy was the go to as well.
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Bullshit, you picked Mundo and Maokai and gave no fucks because you could actually deward and not die for it.
The last Maokai rework actually really killed what made him fun to me: the ability to abuse item timings (especially early on) and his kit to just go ham and stay alive, running disruption (and/or distraction, especially played top when you got ahead in lane and could use the additional ability damage from your level advantage to threaten squishies) to make space for your carries.
His new ult actually punishes that (because of positioning).
Raidbosses all the way!
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Are you sure you're talking about Maokai, the strongest tank in the game right now?
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so.... I was testing stoneborn/ardent lulu.... and its actually way better than i thought.
the ult applies stoneborn. and not just the knockup, but the aoe slow as well. its like stoneborn in an aura for 7 seconds. that shit is crazy if you use it on your divers/tanks and just apply it via shield/glitterlance for your adc.
whimsy also applies it. literally anything lulu does applies stoneborn.
I think its legit, losing the 5% cdr and 10% shield doesn't hurt that badly when ardent is so strong.
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damn that actually sounds like it might be good
shame it scales on max hp and get halved for ranged champs
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yeah, mostly you're just proccing ardent off it. all the autoattack divers like kled or reksai or whatever gain so much off it
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Ardent Censer has been stealth OP for over a year now. (As predicted Sona did get nerfs; 6.14 pre-hotfix Sona is top 3 most busted champs of all time. But she's still disgusting.) It's kind of mind-boggling it took the pros this long to start abusing it. Hopefully it will finally soon start getting nerfed back into reasonableness now that Riot achieved its goal of getting people to give it a fair shot. It happened previously with Cloud Drake / Righteous Glory, and it may happen eventually with Zeke's too.
Also I'm glad that people are starting to come to the realization that Rabadon's Deathcap is overrated. Ketara was preaching like three years ago that Void Staff almost always outdamages Deathcap on 90% of situations, and the only reason to ever get Deathcap was for waveclear (because minions don't have MR) or for AP-scaling utility like shields/heals.
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janna isn't the best censer holder, it's just that she supports the playstyle that censer benefits the most; turret adcs autoing anything in range
trying to shut down adcs when janna combines some of the best peel of any champion in the game with some of the best stat boosting of any champ is the game is very difficult
if you nerfed censer janna would still probably be bonkers its just the ADCs need to be more fed to make up for the nerf in censer gold value
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i still remember a few days ago when a shitty twitch on the enemy team got skarner stunned into skarner ult into swain snare and he went from 1/4th hp to full instantly due to janna/censor and snare lets him AA still. its a fucking joke honestly, at some point you literally cant even kill champs like twitch with a janna unless perma cc'd since they heal so much.
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I'm going to be honest, I really miss old dragon. I understand how Baron vs Elder Dragon can be interesting. But between the randomness of elemental drakes is terrible. I think the best dragon they may have had was maybe just before the elemental drakes where bonuses were set based on which number of dragons you had (although the ordering of the benefits was terrible). I really wish there were some way to control which dragons spawned in the game.
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On August 09 2017 03:40 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 02:54 Slayer91 wrote:
janna isn't the best censer holder, it's just that she supports the playstyle that censer benefits the most; turret adcs autoing anything in range
trying to shut down adcs when janna combines some of the best peel of any champion in the game with some of the best stat boosting of any champ is the game is very difficult
if you nerfed censer janna would still probably be bonkers its just the ADCs need to be more fed to make up for the nerf in censer gold value I think one of the issues with janna is unless you play her a vast majority of players don't see shes strong because at the end of the game she hasn't done damage xD
you fucking see it when you try to kill backliners against janna support
jannas a huge ban atm in solo q but because of lulu thresh and even roaming blitz being super annoying as well she isn't perma ban yet.
the real issue with janna seeming average is all the egirl onetricks spamming E getting 50% winrates xD
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On August 09 2017 03:56 geript wrote:
I'm going to be honest, I really miss old dragon. I understand how Baron vs Elder Dragon can be interesting. But between the randomness of elemental drakes is terrible. I think the best dragon they may have had was maybe just before the elemental drakes where bonuses were set based on which number of dragons you had (although the ordering of the benefits was terrible). I really wish there were some way to control which dragons spawned in the game.
you know what, I would love it if you could see what the order of the drakes is going to be during champion select. I think it'd be a really nice touch that could shake up pick/ban a little bit.
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On August 09 2017 04:04 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 03:56 geript wrote:
I'm going to be honest, I really miss old dragon. I understand how Baron vs Elder Dragon can be interesting. But between the randomness of elemental drakes is terrible. I think the best dragon they may have had was maybe just before the elemental drakes where bonuses were set based on which number of dragons you had (although the ordering of the benefits was terrible). I really wish there were some way to control which dragons spawned in the game. you know what, I would love it if you could see what the order of the drakes is going to be during champion select. I think it'd be a really nice touch that could shake up pick/ban a little bit.
In the least this would be nice. It would also make the decision to take drake when you have the chance interesting. It could also affect the choice to go for early drakes to try and hit all 5 before Elder. Plus, if you have Infernal/Infernal early on, it makes the choice of drafting for early game "win lane win game" comp interesting.
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Janna's been busted in soloQ for years, literally years. Censer really has nothing to do with it, her kit is just tailor made to control what soloQ is all about. Chaos.
Rito wrote:
Janna Nerf - Removing overall power and looking to add a bit more skill expression to her kit. At present we're trying higher CDs, with W reducing CDs/restoring mana on champion hit to reward more aggressive/risky use of that. Not yet sure if that'll be the final direction though.
Janna "nerf" will end up being a buff for Janna mains. Mark my words.
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On August 09 2017 01:51 GrandInquisitor wrote:Ardent Censer has been stealth OP for over a year now. (As predicted Sona did get nerfs; 6.14 pre-hotfix Sona is top 3 most busted champs of all time. But she's still disgusting.) It's kind of mind-boggling it took the pros this long to start abusing it. Hopefully it will finally soon start getting nerfed back into reasonableness now that Riot achieved its goal of getting people to give it a fair shot. It happened previously with Cloud Drake / Righteous Glory, and it may happen eventually with Zeke's too. Also I'm glad that people are starting to come to the realization that Rabadon's Deathcap is overrated. Ketara was preaching like three years ago that Void Staff almost always outdamages Deathcap on 90% of situations, and the only reason to ever get Deathcap was for waveclear (because minions don't have MR) or for AP-scaling utility like shields/heals.
Im glad I listened to Ketara early on. I'd bop kids so hard midgame compared to people getting dcap and they'd be surprised every time.
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On August 09 2017 04:17 Jek wrote:
Janna's been busted in soloQ for years, literally years. Censer really has nothing to do with it, her kit is just tailor made to control what soloQ is all about. Chaos.
I disagree. The problem with playing the super supports in soloQ really depends on a basic competence for the ADC. The better your ADC is the stronger something like Janna becomes. Most people just don't understand their own roles in a game; those people are often too heavy to carry no matter how good you are unless you have help. At gold and up I'd probably agree with you.
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On August 09 2017 04:33 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2017 04:00 Slayer91 wrote:On August 09 2017 03:40 JimmiC wrote:On August 09 2017 02:54 Slayer91 wrote:
janna isn't the best censer holder, it's just that she supports the playstyle that censer benefits the most; turret adcs autoing anything in range
trying to shut down adcs when janna combines some of the best peel of any champion in the game with some of the best stat boosting of any champ is the game is very difficult
if you nerfed censer janna would still probably be bonkers its just the ADCs need to be more fed to make up for the nerf in censer gold value I think one of the issues with janna is unless you play her a vast majority of players don't see shes strong because at the end of the game she hasn't done damage xD you fucking see it when you try to kill backliners against janna support jannas a huge ban atm in solo q but because of lulu thresh and even roaming blitz being super annoying as well she isn't perma ban yet. the real issue with janna seeming average is all the egirl onetricks spamming E getting 50% winrates xD I think higher elo more people notice but in plat I rarely see her banned. Whereas if a mid had her winrate you'd see it banned every game. Op supports get to slide under the radar a bit.
Its more that, for all supportive champions, what is good in SoloQ is disconnected from what is good in Pro play. Thus "OP SoloQ supports" dont get picked/banned regularly in LCS. Sona is right on Janna's heels in winrate, how much of a surprise would if she was picked 3 times in all of playoffs? Rammus and Amumu have famously been great soloQ junglers for years without ever sniffing pro play. On the other end of the spectrum, Shen is almost always below 50% winrate, same with elise. When Thresh got over 50% winrate in soloQ you knew he was broken beyond belief.
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On August 09 2017 04:57 cLutZ wrote:
On the other end of the spectrum, Shen is almost always below 100% winrate, same with elise.
I mean. i'd hope so.
Janna+ardent just gives nuts gold value to an adc. can speed up the progression of an adc by like 3 minutes for a top player, or even up to 10 for garbage ones.
That's just so much for solo queue. And that's without all the save potential to keep very dumb players alive well past what they should be.
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It's kinda insane that they're buffing Cassio again. I'm curious if we'll see her played top lane as a tank counter for worlds.
It looks like they want Vi to be played too. I hate her because she's so good at trading 1 for 1 for a carry in the mid-late game.
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case in point janna can easily R her away and then Q interrupt her Q
also thats a cassio nerf wtf?
I mean e is worse until 300 AP and she goes oom quicker early
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United States37500 Posts
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EPT
