That's my stance on most of the reworks. I liked old dumb Sion but new Sion is fine too. I also liked old Graves but new Graves is pretty cool. Would rather see new champs made with these kits then removing old ones.

Ansibled

United Kingdom9872 Posts

July 17 2017 19:33 GMT

#124

Cait is too dependent on traps for them to be removed so easily, I mean maybe they could revert some of the nerfs and make her stronger without traps but then there isn't really much reason to pick her.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

July 17 2017 20:23 GMT

#125

Not counting minor reworks (i.e. Swain) or Ryze (lol) Urgot is probably going to be my most played champion removed from the game since Xerath. The new version doesn't check any of the old boxes except aesthetics, honestly the only way I see myself interested in this character is if I was playing to gain elo (which is basically never) and he was s tier.

The ult looks cool though I'll give him that

cLutZ

United States19574 Posts

July 17 2017 23:14 GMT

#126

On July 18 2017 04:11 Slusher wrote:
In the absence of old graves being deleted I like new graves. (Not in any way an advocate of a cait rework )

See, for me, I dislike it from both sides. First, Old Graves was cool, and I loved playing him in the Riot Graves skin someone here gave me like 3 years ago. Second, they did all the ADC reworks to create "diversity" but old Graves would be very unique right now in the game. New Graves is a pretty milktoast jungler/bruiser from my POV, and the fact that Jihn exists makes his ammo mechanic pretty silly as well.

Sent.

Poland9331 Posts

July 17 2017 23:18 GMT

#127

Didn't they say the old Graves was too similar to Lucian?

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

July 17 2017 23:23 GMT

#128

They did but that doesn't make it true

NeoIllusions

United States37500 Posts

July 18 2017 00:38 GMT

#129

Yeah, I don't see how OG Graves is anything like Lucian, besides both having a dash.

Sent.

Poland9331 Posts

July 18 2017 01:26 GMT

#130

Short range, high burst, low cd dash, good early game, ult you can use to clear a wave with relative safety?

I mean, there are important differences between the two but you can't say Riot's stance is baseless. If I recall correctly, Caitlyn and Jinx had the same problem for a while, and I think old Graves and Lucian have more similarities than these two.

I'm probably missing a lot. Adc is easily my worst role, so sorry if I'm missing something obvious.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

July 18 2017 01:32 GMT

#131

Lucian is played using his abilities to fuel his passive Graves was played to damage people with his abilities

The closest thing to graves on live is probably mf , in terms of trying to burst people with your abilities then follow up like a traditional adc as best you can.

cLutZ

United States19574 Posts

July 18 2017 02:08 GMT

#132

Yea. Old Graves and Old Lucian served similar roles, but accomplished it in different ways. Lucian was always "slicker", and now since the Lucian changes he is almost nothing like old Graves.

New Graves has his arguments as the only "Ranged AD Bruiser", but I find he plays more like a melee bruiser with some long range abilities.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

July 18 2017 02:58 GMT

#133

Old Graves' ult didnt one-shot the early on like Lucian's does (also Graves' ult never did half a tank's hp even when ungodly fed), but aside from that the whole "short range, bursts using spells" shtick was what riot said.

zer0das

United States8519 Posts

July 18 2017 03:50 GMT

#134

On July 17 2017 10:25 Sent. wrote:
I think the problem with Caitlyn's traps (and Maokai's saplings) could be solved by making them destroyable after using the red trinket on them. Though that would require buffing Caitlyn elsewhere since it would ruin her sieging power.

Or they could just revert back to how it was before, so she can't carry so many of them at once and can have 3 max on the field. Cait traps were always obnoxious, she just didn't have a nigh infinite supply of them until they decided it would be a great idea if Caitlyn could siege towers with near impunity. Like she had a problem sieging towers before. The damage nonsense was just the icing on the stupid. And the interactions with Zhonyas, GA, and teleport are the pie to go with the cake.

They did it with Kog, no reason they can't do it with Caitlyn.

DarkCore

Germany4194 Posts

July 18 2017 09:26 GMT

#135

The number of traps on the field isn't too important, it's the fact you can place them for a ton of damage. It counters Zhonyas, but I think even more important is that a good Cait can chain the ability with quite a few supports (Thresh, Braum, Blitz, Nami off the top of my head). And Caits headhshot trap does a ton of damage, especially considering the range. The rest of her kit is decent, she also has long range, but if not for her traps she would be a lot weaker.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

July 18 2017 14:25 GMT

#136

The number of traps is super relevant wtf? Imagine a world where a cait who wants to have a trap ready for cc can't drop more than one trap in the lane, imagine a world where trapping a tower for seize or defense put traps on cool down for 60-90 seconds. The traps being good isn't inherently a problem, champions should have benefits to being picked. So what if you made the traps an actual resource where they don't feel unlimited late game? Maybe a sightstone mechanic where she has to base to reload? TBH I haven't seen nearly as much cait since the patch so maybe it's a non issue.

evilfatsh1t

Australia8937 Posts

July 18 2017 15:04 GMT

#137

that sightstone idea aint bad actually. not much of a nerf but a noticeable one nonetheless

dsyxelic

United States1417 Posts

July 18 2017 20:40 GMT

#138

that would make her traps pretty garbo

i think something simpler like a cd on how many traps she can shit out at once would be good.

maybe like it takes an extra 5 seconds until you place your next trap

so it would give teams an extra wave or so to make a play instead of like now where a caitlyn can block off an entire route in like 2 seconds.

she should be strong in these type of siege scenarios, but she shouldn't be able to instantly set up another trap supported siege in a different location faster than a team can actually rotate. give slight windows where the enemy team can pull off something.

PrinceXizor

United States17713 Posts

July 18 2017 23:53 GMT

#139

On July 19 2017 05:40 dsyxelic wrote:
that would make her traps pretty garbo

i think something simpler like a cd on how many traps she can shit out at once would be good.

maybe like it takes an extra 5 seconds until you place your next trap

so it would give teams an extra wave or so to make a play instead of like now where a caitlyn can block off an entire route in like 2 seconds.

she should be strong in these type of siege scenarios, but she shouldn't be able to instantly set up another trap supported siege in a different location faster than a team can actually rotate. give slight windows where the enemy team can pull off something.

The other possibility is to shrink the size of the traps by about 15. so you can't block off the a whole lane without leaving holes.

iCanada

Canada10660 Posts

July 21 2017 00:25 GMT

#140

Apparently I will soon have like 200k IP.

That's nice I guess. Will bring me up to around 300k without having to play at all. Was much more excited about the idea of special skins... Seems kinda like a player like me gets the worst end of this deal, i don't gain anything but a number I can't use, but Riot also loses tons of money so I get less content?

I know this is meant to be a huge "hey guys we love yall", and a move to make losing runes feel less bad, but meh.

Edit: I'm retarded, LOL. NVM.