Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread.
Honestly his kit looks fine for top lane and even for mid lane if you can get the assassin form early. Not sure what will keep him in the jungle, perhaps he cannot constantly trade very well in lane before transformation so he will be inferior laner, I don't know.
Yea I don't get that change at all, brush checks are an important part of the game not to mention it's a big cd to use anivia wall for vision, and yet wall of pain lives on.
Neither being nearly as broken as Amir soldiers killing wards
Wonder how good the Diana buffs are, I have to try her out.
Also, wtf is that Thornmail change, I thought the item was fine as it was.
and just as we were talking about trundle, they reveal a stealth huge nerf to him and anivia/ivern in the patch notes.
Agreed, what a dumb nerf. This was one of those small things that gave the champs a small niche ability (pillar was very useful for Trundle support for example). If they do things like this, then they should implement it with a real rework, Trundle and Anivia don't see much play as it is.
and just as we were talking about trundle, they reveal a stealth huge nerf to him and anivia/ivern in the patch notes.
Agreed, what a dumb nerf. This was one of those small things that gave the champs a small niche ability (pillar was very useful for Trundle support for example). If they do things like this, then they should implement it with a real rework, Trundle and Anivia don't see much play as it is.
I also thought that tornmail is all right, but riot several times implied that they dont like the item as it was and they also implied that they want to add grievous wounds in the tanks arsenal
Wounds on thornmail tilts me tbh, lifesteal is supposed to be the counter. Maybe if it was an active like blademail, but now killing the tank will always do damage to you idk man.
I need to play with these changes in but at a glance thornmail looks like a must buy on tanks, counters the best class for killing tanks.
I like having another source of grevious wounds. It sucks when you're playing somewhere away from the bot lane against something like Swain, and the only champion in your team who doesn't have to fuck their up by buying executioners/morellos is your adc.
Adaptive Helm and this new Thornmail makes it look like Riot wants real tanks back in the meta. Not sure if it's good considering matchups like Nautlus vs Malphite aren't particularly exciting.
On July 12 2017 07:02 VayneAuthority wrote: and just as we were talking about trundle, they reveal a stealth huge nerf to him and anivia/ivern in the patch notes.
This is why I haven't and will continue to never support this company
Huge Anivia nerf is casually hidden away in the bugfixes...
On July 12 2017 07:02 Patch notes wrote: Fixed a bug where several forms of loss-of-control effects (Fear, Flee, Taunt, Knockback, and Charm) weren’t properly cancelling Anivia’s R - Glacial Storm
On July 12 2017 07:02 VayneAuthority wrote: and just as we were talking about trundle, they reveal a stealth huge nerf to him and anivia/ivern in the patch notes.
This is why I haven't and will continue to never support this company
Huge Anivia nerf is casually hidden away in the bugfixes...
On July 12 2017 07:02 Patch notes wrote: Fixed a bug where several forms of loss-of-control effects (Fear, Flee, Taunt, Knockback, and Charm) weren’t properly cancelling Anivia’s R - Glacial Storm
QQ
Yep. It's been like since she was in the game, and now it gets changed?
On July 12 2017 07:33 Slusher wrote: Wounds on thornmail tilts me tbh, lifesteal is supposed to be the counter. Maybe if it was an active like blademail, but now killing the tank will always do damage to you idk man.
I need to play with these changes in but at a glance thornmail looks like a must buy on tanks, counters the best class for killing tanks.
It doesnt reflect based on incoming damage anymore. so getting lifesteal still helps, just half as much. (Oh no wait it's 40% now not 50%. lol its even worse)
So it's better vs stacking lifesteal, worse vs single lifesteal items. if you have 12% lifesteal from botrk, you have 7.2% lifesteal now, instead of -3% from before. If you add a bloodthirster it goes from 32->17 (old thornmail) to 32->19.2 (new thornmail). if you add a scimitar the difference is 42% lifesteal -> 27% lifesteal to 42%->25.2%.
If you just have botrk+scimitar old thorns was 22%->7% new thorns is 22%->13.2%
It's actually worse vs almost every situation that you see from an adc outside of buying bloodthirster, botrk and scimitar. it does 10% armor instead of 25% but adds 20 base. so if you have 135 bonus armor or more you reflect less damage than before. so with it giving 75 armor, its about 60 armor from other sources (so sunfire or dead mans and runes)
It's better vs tanks, mages. Actually worse vs lifesteal in most situations, i guess outside of the warlords auto. its better vs that specific auto attack.
It's better if there is an outside source of healing (though i guess that depends on the amount of outside healing vs the amount of auto attacks used)
it hasn't been based off incoming damage for liek 2 years
after more thought I agree it's not broken vs. adc but I still think it has probable potential to be in the final build of every tank every game, regardless if they are in the tank vs. carry match up this change is intended to ease.
This thornmail change is actually a nerf to the very thing they are trying to buff, except vs lifesteal stacking, 37.5% lifesteal is breakeven for healing prevention (above its better, below its worse) and 133.3 Bonus Armor is breakeven for return damage.
So it returns more damage if its your only armor item, and it prevents healing vs 37.5% lifesteal and above better.
It also helps vs supports who heal the person attacking you.
Apparently, Riot doesnt like doing math on their changes to see if it has the intended effect.
OR
Riot isn't telling the truth about why they are changing thornmail, and they just really wanted to shove grevious wounds somewhere, and thats where it ended up, and someone thought it was too good and pre-nerfed it.
On July 12 2017 11:59 Slusher wrote: it hasn't been based off incoming damage for liek 2 years
after more thought I agree it's not broken vs. adc but I still think it has probable potential to be in the final build of every tank every game, regardless if they are in the tank vs. carry match up this change is intended to ease.
I think we may even see it built much earlier now (maybe second or third item). Like the effective HP thormail currently gives you as an early item right now is really bad; plus it's buildpath is terrible with a 1250 combine cost. So for Top I think you'll be able to go Bramble Vest and Ruby Crystal first buy presuming you don't have wave clear or mana sustain issues. It feels a bit better than Glacial Shroud + Ruby Crystal for a number of champions who don't terribly care about CDR. I'm guessing that Bramble Vest in their thinking is a minor lane counter to AD Kennen or Jayce top who can harrass you out of lane; and that's the thing a bunch of pros seem to be bitching about.
First impression of PBE Urgod jungle is that he will be a viable jungler. First clear is a little slow for my liking, but its pretty clean if you kite well. He slaughters AoE camps like nothing, single target is a bit slow but manageable. He really sucks at Golems. I wouldn't call him top tier, maybe same solo-queue tier as like Shyv/Graggy/Reksai?
Not sure on jungler runes for him; Normally I'd say pure attack damage reds/quints, but even with them he still his doing the minimum damage to creeps / monsters with his W. As such, movespeed or CDR runes facilitate a much better clear; I'd lean towards movespeed for ganks and not capping out CDR later. CDR has a slightly quicker full-clear than movespeed, but its mostly golems killing prowess. AD runes make him scary as fuck to 1v1 in the jungle though, like flat out if you don't get surprised and have red with AD runes pre-first buy the other guy is dead because his W is pretty silly when you aren't hitting anything but the champion (like 80 HP shield + 500 damage minus passive, LOL). I think the level of PBE games AD runes definitely best because you can hunt other junglers, but I think in a more even game I would prolly go movespeed for better ganks? I think once people try to fight Urgot in the jungle 1v1 once they never will again. Scary as hell for the average melee jungler, like Kindred w/ a shield so even if you get on him he wins.
I have to say, new Urgod is pretty gross with a bit of items / gold lead. Like 600 damage shield every 5 seconds and 650 damage AOE shotgun bursts for days. I think game is free if you get a lead, but not sure how easy that would be against laners that ward and junglers that know how to farm. He will likely replace Volibear as my pub-stomp jungler; a little safer, a little less hard countered by good support players. Fucking Janna. Not sure what he is like while even or behind, stomped all my games so far, but thats PBE for you.
I think CotC too good on Urgot to not use, but I could see Fervor being pretty sweet too. I dunno. Would have to play around more.
Have to say though even when fed he has a rough go taking towers. He does no tower damage. LOL.
Wait, isnt Gragas and Reksai basically toppest % junglers? If Urgot is as good as them, thats pretty epic although you will excuse me if Im a bit sceptical at first.
thats the first thing that stood out to me in his numbers on PBE if I read them correctly. His charge stuns at rank 1 for 1.25 seconds? thats pretty great for ganks/gank assist. Looks like he'll maintain status as an early game god at any rate with that single target stun/shield/range etc.
On July 12 2017 20:12 Scip wrote: Wait, isnt Gragas and Reksai basically toppest % junglers? If Urgot is as good as them, thats pretty epic although you will excuse me if Im a bit sceptical at first.
To be clear, we're talking about purely soloqueue. My experience right now is that several junglers just way better then them; Zac, Warwick, Sej, Elise. Then there's another tier inbetween comprising like Kindred, J4, Ivern. That's based on my own feel and stats per op.gg
Anyway you shake it, don't think he's top percentage. Id guess middle of the road to mediocre. To be clear, I meant viable as in I'd pick him and not feel like I'm trolling, not that he's top tier top contested pick.
I'd also guess he's horrible for competitive play as a junglers. But they are different games. Sjit like graggy, reksai, Lee and graves dominate competitive but I'd say they aren't great soloqueue picks.
I'm also a bad player who gets in maybe 3 games a week; I'm sure a lot if my experience is garbage at the top of a ladder.
In soloQ generally speaking farming playstyles work a bit better than in competitive, think old xJ9 style. Laners dont know how to deal with junglers that dont do anything xD
kindred will be a problem in the future, shes overbuffed but farming jungle meta is so shit right now that it doesnt matter. If jungle ever goes back to farming she will be strong, granted there is some good tanks top lane in the meta
kayn's ability set is kind of straight forward though. Outside of the transformation mechanic, which is not even that hard to understand, his kit is pretty simple, around darius' level of complexity if you ask me, maybe harder, but overall simple and easy to pick
I'm still at work but twitter is buzzing about leathality on adc, I don't really see how the change to it being based on your level benefits adc but I am curious if anyone here has tried it?
On July 13 2017 05:01 Slusher wrote: I'm still at work but twitter is buzzing about leathality on adc, I don't really see how the change to it being based on your level benefits adc but I am curious if anyone here has tried it?
The theory behind it is that in lane it doesnt matter because your targets and yourself are the same level anyway, so the bonus 3 lethality per item is a net buff?
not sure why thats such a big deal though. but honestly the lethality formula is so obtuse and hidden from view i couldnt tell you the net % damage increase from 1 point anyway.
On July 13 2017 06:54 nafta wrote: Whoever thought of the whole concept of lethality should be fired. Why does it have to be so complicated for no reason?
Scarra's commentary on this change was the best.
"I thought the whole point of adding lethality was to prevent snowballing, but now it rewards you for it"
On July 12 2017 23:55 Ansibled wrote: I think the tank jungle item change actually helped a decent amount, it's so cheap to get now. It seems like Maokai is getting pretty popular too.
I didn't know Kindred was still a champion to be honest.
Kindred is actually in a pretty good spot right now I think. But like VA says I could see he being ridiculously op with very minor changes elsewhere.
On July 12 2017 23:55 Ansibled wrote: I think the tank jungle item change actually helped a decent amount, it's so cheap to get now. It seems like Maokai is getting pretty popular too.
I didn't know Kindred was still a champion to be honest.
Kindred is actually in a pretty good spot right now I think. But like VA says I could see he being ridiculously op with very minor changes elsewhere.
I think that is just the date of Kindred so long as she is going to be the only squishy, high damage, champion that riot considers a jungler. I mean, if Karthus and Tryndamere were balanced for the jungle then they would serve as a counterweight if ever power farming was meta.
On July 13 2017 06:54 nafta wrote: Whoever thought of the whole concept of lethality should be fired. Why does it have to be so complicated for no reason?
Scarra's commentary on this change was the best.
"I thought the whole point of adding lethality was to prevent snowballing, but now it rewards you for it"
On July 12 2017 22:58 Scip wrote: In soloQ generally speaking farming playstyles work a bit better than in competitive, think old xJ9 style. Laners dont know how to deal with junglers that dont do anything xD
Don't need to XJ9 if you set your taxes high enough. ♡
Rek Sai towerdives in the pro games are so boring. Free pathing, gapclose, knock up, tower aggro reset. Its basically a guaranteed kill. Its unexpected and an insane outplay if the Reksai tower dive gets under 50% on either person.
On July 13 2017 15:25 cLutZ wrote: Rek Sai towerdives in the pro games are so boring. Free pathing, gapclose, knock up, tower aggro reset. Its basically a guaranteed kill. Its unexpected and an insane outplay if the Reksai tower dive gets under 50% on either person.
Lee and elise dives are pretty much the same. lee's mobility and damage and elise's disengage etc.
Dives are so important right now in league, of course the popular junglers are the ones that do it well.
I just dont understand buffing 4 things on singed in one go. It doesnt take a genius to realize that might be a tad too much. Especially when he already had solid winrates against most of the popular/meta tops.
On July 14 2017 00:46 Ansibled wrote: I want to play Kayn but it's banned in every game :[
I did play against one and it didn't seem to do very much.
I haven't played the champ yet, but I watched several games with famous streamers playing it and you are right, he is not op for sure. The red transformation looks all right, it provides CC and tankiness, however, the blue and the basic ones look kind of weak. I cannot even feel the difference between the basic and blue form in terms of impact, it really looks the same.
Sounds like another Taliyah, a bit UP(and using "wrong skills") on release so dev is going to mad buff until super strong then some nerfs to bring him back down.
Blue has a bit more mobility, and more burst if you get to auto -> ult -> auto again, and that wouldn't be enough to kill without the 2nd passive activation.
What do you mean by "wrong skills", like people maxing E instead of Q on Vi (and vice-versa for Kalista) upon release?
On July 14 2017 01:14 Alaric wrote: Blue has a bit more mobility, and more burst if you get to auto -> ult -> auto again, and that wouldn't be enough to kill without the 2nd passive activation.
yeah i know what it has, its just that it doesn't look to be of enough impact in comparison with the basic
Yea people were maxing E since her Q was shit and the dev got mad telling people they playing her wrong. After that didn't work they buffed her Q and nerfed her E until maxing Q first was best.
Yeah, red Kayn seems much stronger. His W is actually pretty strong, it's a 1sec AoE knock up with a decent CD and nice range, in places like the jungle it's pretty dope. Also think he can synergize nicely with Yasuo for that reason.
He's definitely not a duelist though, can't 1vs1 many champions. But his presence in team fights is noticeable, also his ultimate is pretty annoying.
I watched several games with famous streamers playing it and you are right, he is not op for sure.
Watched Tarzaned smurfing with him in the jungle, it looked pretty good by late game. He wasn't doing much else except face diving the enemy team with a GA, made him pretty hard to kill but his damage was high enough to divert a lot of attention.
On July 13 2017 15:25 cLutZ wrote: Rek Sai towerdives in the pro games are so boring. Free pathing, gapclose, knock up, tower aggro reset. Its basically a guaranteed kill. Its unexpected and an insane outplay if the Reksai tower dive gets under 50% on either person.
Lee and elise dives are pretty much the same. lee's mobility and damage and elise's disengage etc.
Dives are so important right now in league, of course the popular junglers are the ones that do it well.
Early game dives are so boring at the pro level atm. They need to figure out a way such that having the minion advantage is not all you need.
On July 14 2017 01:34 Sent. wrote: What should I do when teammate declares intent of picking kayn in ranked? Ban, dodge, bite the bullet?
I don't think you do anything. He's a decent champion. Red transform is viable imo. He farms well in the jungle and if the guy spent any time at all considering his newly available tank paths with E he'll likely pop off shaco style because no one knows what he does right now.
On July 13 2017 22:46 VayneAuthority wrote: just another case of "if a group of a mains of a champ complain long enough, riot will overbuff it even though the champ is fine"
singed mains are some of the worst degenerates, that would be my perm ban if he became popular again
Plz just because they over buffed him doesn't mean he wasn't shit before. really all they need to do is nerf his new w and starting hp so that he can't just 1v1 at level 2/3 and win so easy. Singed is meant to be a top lane version of kassadin where pre6 he's weak but after 6 he should start shitting on you if didn't punish him. Not to mention even people in diamond don't know how to play vs singed so now that he is seeing more play people are just freaking out
On July 13 2017 22:46 VayneAuthority wrote: just another case of "if a group of a mains of a champ complain long enough, riot will overbuff it even though the champ is fine"
singed mains are some of the worst degenerates, that would be my perm ban if he became popular again
Plz just because they over buffed him doesn't mean he wasn't shit before. really all they need to do is nerf his new w and starting hp so that he can't just 1v1 at level 2/3 and win so easy. Singed is meant to be a top lane version of kassadin where pre6 he's weak but after 6 he should start shitting on you if didn't punish him. Not to mention even people in diamond don't know how to play vs singed so now that he is seeing more play people are just freaking out
yea let me just punish singed with nasus while he proxies my wave and gives us both zero agency over the game haha!
relying on your team to win the 4v4 while singed makes the game PvE top is not a healthy mechanic for the game.
There was already at least 8 OTPs singed in diamond 2+ on op.gg before the buffs, he was not "super weak"
Comparatively, nasus has 2 accounts of nasus mains diamond 2 or higher.
the same applies to anyone not named fiora/jayce/kennen, nasus is just an example. Removing agency completely from a lane via proxy isnt a good gameplay mechanic any way you try to spin it.
On July 13 2017 22:46 VayneAuthority wrote: just another case of "if a group of a mains of a champ complain long enough, riot will overbuff it even though the champ is fine"
singed mains are some of the worst degenerates, that would be my perm ban if he became popular again
Rolf you crack me up so much, so much passion and anger.
Pretty sure your a championist though! (summonerist? I'm not sure but a ist for sure)
its not championism it is a statistically supported world view
On July 14 2017 03:40 JimmiC wrote: In YOUR opinion. Which not everyone agree's with. Pretty sure your the one with the spin bub, hence all the overly dramatic posts.
Im pretty sure you could ask anyone except you apparently and nobody would say they have fun laning against proxy singed. You are in the very small minority that enjoys it for whatever reason. Maybe you don't usually do well/carry and enjoy not having to actually play the laning phase? who knows.
On July 14 2017 03:40 JimmiC wrote: In YOUR opinion. Which not everyone agree's with. Pretty sure your the one with the spin bub, hence all the overly dramatic posts.
Im pretty sure you could ask anyone except you apparently and nobody would say they have fun laning against proxy singed. You are in the very small minority that enjoys it for whatever reason. Maybe you don't usually do well/carry and enjoy not having to actually play the laning phase? who knows.
i mean there are Plenty of champs that aren't fun to lane against. If getting kills and fighting in lane is the only reason you enjoy the game there are better games for you to play.
On July 14 2017 03:18 VayneAuthority wrote: the same applies to anyone not named fiora/jayce/kennen, nasus is just an example. Removing agency completely from a lane via proxy isnt a good gameplay mechanic any way you try to spin it.
funny thing is kennen jayce were some of the 'better' match ups in terms of winrate for singed in the last patch
On July 13 2017 22:46 VayneAuthority wrote: just another case of "if a group of a mains of a champ complain long enough, riot will overbuff it even though the champ is fine"
singed mains are some of the worst degenerates, that would be my perm ban if he became popular again
Rolf you crack me up so much, so much passion and anger.
Pretty sure your a championist though! (summonerist? I'm not sure but a ist for sure)
its not championism it is a statistically supported world view
I think part of rivens leave issue is that she snowballs hard and her mechanics are legit enough that even some of the best otps fuck up basic shit at times. It's like imagine if you knew you had a kill on someone but you fuck up and cancel two autos; if you didn't fuck up it's easy game lul but you did so it kind of feels like playing a game of BW where you lost your nat to a poorly executed cheese you scouted and were ready for because you accidentally canceled an OL, and had to sacrifice drones to stall to let your sunken defend long enough for reinforcement lings while your OL hatches. It's not game over, but you really kind of goofed yourself and there becomes nothing really to learn aside from "whelp don't last second cancel your overlord."
On July 14 2017 10:03 Scip wrote: I still think that if you choose to OTP riven, there is probably something off about you
From my experience its nost just riven, its also yasuo and vayne, and ADC mains in general seem to be a bit touched in the head
Yi, zed and jinx OTP should be added to that too.
Those folk are aggressively anti other human beings, and actually only care about going off and just stop trying if they get behind. Supporting Jinx mains especially is a nightmare.
On July 14 2017 03:40 JimmiC wrote: In YOUR opinion. Which not everyone agree's with. Pretty sure your the one with the spin bub, hence all the overly dramatic posts.
Im pretty sure you could ask anyone except you apparently and nobody would say they have fun laning against proxy singed. You are in the very small minority that enjoys it for whatever reason. Maybe you don't usually do well/carry and enjoy not having to actually play the laning phase? who knows.
It's more that I'm not a cry baby like you, who thinks everything is a personal slight to me. If someone wants to play that way go for it. I'll do whatever I need to, to have a good time. Which often times is writing "sorry poor baby your video game is not going well, life is hard" to pathetic whiners like you.
Your posts on here constantly read like the spoiled millennial everyone hates. Why does riot have to base their game to you? You self professed have never paid a dime. You're just a douchebag who plays it non stop and complains about the stupidest shit like it is the end of the world. I can just imagine you spazzing every game someone on your team doesn't do well. And then blaming the "camp" or OP champ or Match up when you lose. If you don't like the game, the people running it are both evil and stupid GO AWAY! Trust me you won't be missed.
projection much? thanks for the life story but nobody cares.
Your last 5 posts in the thread are obsessing over me, sorry but I don't want to date you.
On July 14 2017 10:03 Scip wrote: I still think that if you choose to OTP riven, there is probably something off about you
From my experience its nost just riven, its also yasuo and vayne, and ADC mains in general seem to be a bit touched in the head
Yi, zed and jinx OTP should be added to that too.
Those folk are aggressively anti other human beings, and actually only care about going off and just stop trying if they get behind. Supporting Jinx mains especially is a nightmare.
Draven is worse than Jinx and Vayne tbh. It has gotten a bit better after Tyler1's ban, but meh. Dravens can start raging over any random thing while Jinx/Vayne is usually "just" if you lose lane or a lost teamfight.
On the completely other side of the spectrum Shaco and Nunu mains they are almost always so trolly in the fun way.
I wouldn't put adc mains in the same group as Riven/Yasuo/Fiora players (maybe excluding Vayne mains). Adc mains are like Zerg players who keep doing the same shit over and over and get mad when something doesn't go perfectly, e.g. they start raging when when they mismanage their mineral line early or when they miss the first cannon minion in LoL.
Rivens are like full bio Terran players who like extremely risky micro intensive strategies and get mad when they lose to something that, according to them, doesn't take as much as skill as their champion/race (i.e. everything) and/or is broken by design (i.e. everything but their champion/race). When they get mad they int or float their structures to a corner because they need to have the last word.
On July 15 2017 00:42 Sent. wrote: I wouldn't put adc mains in the same group as Riven/Yasuo/Fiora players (maybe excluding Vayne mains). Adc mains are like Zerg players who keep doing the same shit over and over and get mad when something doesn't go perfectly, e.g. they start raging when when they mismanage their mineral line early or when they miss the first cannon minion in LoL.
Rivens are like full bio Terran players who like extremely risky micro intensive strategies and get mad when they lose to something that, according to them, doesn't take as much as skill as their champion/race (i.e. everything) and/or is broken by design (i.e. everything but their champion/race). When they get mad they int or float their structures to a corner because they need to have the last word.
On July 14 2017 10:03 Scip wrote: I still think that if you choose to OTP riven, there is probably something off about you
From my experience its nost just riven, its also yasuo and vayne, and ADC mains in general seem to be a bit touched in the head
Yi, zed and jinx OTP should be added to that too.
Those folk are aggressively anti other human beings, and actually only care about going off and just stop trying if they get behind. Supporting Jinx mains especially is a nightmare.
Draven is worse than Jinx and Vayne tbh. It has gotten a bit better after Tyler1's ban, but meh. Dravens can start raging over any random thing while Jinx/Vayne is usually "just" if you lose lane or a lost teamfight.
On the completely other side of the spectrum Shaco and Nunu mains they are almost always so trolly in the fun way.
Yeah but usually when you lane with a jinx/vayne you auto lose the lane because of the matchup.
On July 15 2017 01:55 Numy wrote: He was hotfixed already I think. So if you felt he was strong that's pretty bad sign?
It's not really a numbers issue, the new passive + w buff + his kit is just such a good combo. Not to mention the nerf only effect early game pvp which I didn't really partake in (get triggered va)
I'm trying to think of which ADC I actually like laning with and I am only ever happy with cait. Except I ban her now cause that shit is oppressive on the other side.
On July 15 2017 13:07 Kaneh wrote: I'm trying to think of which ADC I actually like laning with and I am only ever happy with cait. Except I ban her now cause that shit is oppressive on the other side.
Maybe I'm just a salty little support.
Happy to support cait, ashe, varus, Xayah, Kalista. On my end at least.
Cait AS has been seriously gutted, I didn't think of the nerfs being that bad until I played her, it's quite noticeable.
Also, full dmg blue Kayn has made me rethink the champion. There comes a point where he just dumps on squishy champions. He's basically a Zed, even has an invun that makes focusing him difficult.
On July 16 2017 02:27 DarkCore wrote: Cait AS has been seriously gutted, I didn't think of the nerfs being that bad until I played her, it's quite noticeable.
Also, full dmg blue Kayn has made me rethink the champion. There comes a point where he just dumps on squishy champions. He's basically a Zed, even has an invun that makes focusing him difficult.
Well he is supposed to be an assassin so normally he should do similar to other assassins damage such as zed and talon
just as an update: The first punishment on loot rewards is significantly harsher then on the old system. it takes a lot of games/honor to reacquire loot again. I just got it back and posted a while ago, and I usually get at least 2 honor a game.
On July 16 2017 05:33 VayneAuthority wrote: just as an update: The first punishment on loot rewards is significantly harsher then on the old system. it takes a lot of games/honor to reacquire loot again. I just got it back and posted a while ago, and I usually get at least 2 honor a game.
Might be different for different bans, got a 3 day ban for leaverbuster due to combination internet/failed surrender mistake, lost my current stuff, but came back to a popup for 5 key fragments for my "honor" lol
On July 16 2017 05:33 VayneAuthority wrote: just as an update: The first punishment on loot rewards is significantly harsher then on the old system. it takes a lot of games/honor to reacquire loot again. I just got it back and posted a while ago, and I usually get at least 2 honor a game.
Might be different for different bans, got a 3 day ban for leaverbuster due to combination internet/failed surrender mistake, lost my current stuff, but came back to a popup for 5 key fragments for my "honor" lol
did you get put down to locked level 1 honor? I just noticed that even though im unlocked my honor is still level 1 so its not even done
On July 16 2017 05:33 VayneAuthority wrote: just as an update: The first punishment on loot rewards is significantly harsher then on the old system. it takes a lot of games/honor to reacquire loot again. I just got it back and posted a while ago, and I usually get at least 2 honor a game.
Might be different for different bans, got a 3 day ban for leaverbuster due to combination internet/failed surrender mistake, lost my current stuff, but came back to a popup for 5 key fragments for my "honor" lol
did you get put down to locked level 1 honor? I just noticed that even though im unlocked my honor is still level 1 so its not even done
On July 16 2017 17:54 JonnyLaw wrote: Have any of you got honor 3?
I wouldnt be surprised if it ends up the same way as the ribbons, where 5 stacks farming honor are the ones that get the high ranks. and mostly in bot games.
i agree that cait is bullshit to deal with for most mids and she shouldn't negate hourglass as well as she does
How does she negate hourglass?
Trap under you...
Everybody with a trap does in that case. Teemo drops shrooms, Jinx drop chompers, Nidalee Bushwhacks, Shaco Boxes, Jihn Traps.
Zhonya's is only a guarantee of safety while you're stasised.
None of those are usually up, or all that useful mid fight like Cait traps. Jinx chompers are the closest, but a tank can step on them for you, and she often uses them to zone for herself anyways.
i agree that cait is bullshit to deal with for most mids and she shouldn't negate hourglass as well as she does
How does she negate hourglass?
Trap under you...
Everybody with a trap does in that case. Teemo drops shrooms, Jinx drop chompers, Nidalee Bushwhacks, Shaco Boxes, Jihn Traps.
Zhonya's is only a guarantee of safety while you're stasised.
Caits traps deal as much damage as a teemo shroom, but can't be trinket'd and destroyed, and prevent flashes/dashes.
The only thing close is jinx, and her traps kinda suck and instant arm so you have time to have someone walk over them for you, have they have a weird interaction with thresh where you can take the lantern as they latch and still get away sometimes. Luckily jinx is also one of the worst bottom laners so you know, it at least is an advantage to make up for her crap laning, and her traps dont mean you take 600-1000 damage.
i agree that cait is bullshit to deal with for most mids and she shouldn't negate hourglass as well as she does
How does she negate hourglass?
Trap under you...
Everybody with a trap does in that case. Teemo drops shrooms, Jinx drop chompers, Nidalee Bushwhacks, Shaco Boxes, Jihn Traps.
Zhonya's is only a guarantee of safety while you're stasised.
Caits traps deal as much damage as a teemo shroom, but can't be trinket'd and destroyed, and prevent flashes/dashes.
The only thing close is jinx, and her traps kinda suck and instant arm so you have time to have someone walk over them for you, have they have a weird interaction with thresh where you can take the lantern as they latch and still get away sometimes. Luckily jinx is also one of the worst bottom laners so you know, it at least is an advantage to make up for her crap laning, and her traps dont mean you take 600-1000 damage.
Pretty sure Teemo shrooms don't instantly deal like 1000 damage.
Pantheon is hard to master, apparently. I find that surprising... I thought the hardest part of playing pantheon was just basic shit like when you can safely all in and roaming? Apparently harder to master than Taliyah?
I think the problem with Caitlyn's traps (and Maokai's saplings) could be solved by making them destroyable after using the red trinket on them. Though that would require buffing Caitlyn elsewhere since it would ruin her sieging power.
On July 17 2017 10:25 Sent. wrote: I think the problem with Caitlyn's traps (and Maokai's saplings) could be solved by making them destroyable after using the red trinket on them. Though that would require buffing Caitlyn elsewhere since it would ruin her sieging power.
could just make it disable them while the trinket is active.
But riot thinks the traps are the fun part of cait's kit. not the net shot combos or the range.
I wouldnt mind a cait rework, it'd be cool if they made her a long range graves, where standing in front of someone blocked the sniper shot. They could actually afford to increase her range even more then make it like 750 or 850, and give her a passive that makes her shots penetrate minions at 6 and 1 champ at 11. Make her ult penetrate 1/2 champs at 11/16. Make her more sniper elite less weird bear trap lady.
Lol no, that would seriously suck. She wouldn't be playable as an ADC anymore, you going to throw her in the jungle too? Champ penetration is also a bit silly, you can pick Braum against her and it means she can't target select in team fights, which doesn't seem important since everyone can do it, but it is one of the biggest reasons you don't see ADC Graves anymore.
I think the problem with Caitlyn's traps (and Maokai's saplings) could be solved by making them destroyable after using the red trinket on them.
That seems like a better solution imo. Also like it for Mao saplings, idk why they moved the % health damage on to it from his W, which was not exactly the problem with his kit.
That's my stance on most of the reworks. I liked old dumb Sion but new Sion is fine too. I also liked old Graves but new Graves is pretty cool. Would rather see new champs made with these kits then removing old ones.
Cait is too dependent on traps for them to be removed so easily, I mean maybe they could revert some of the nerfs and make her stronger without traps but then there isn't really much reason to pick her.
Not counting minor reworks (i.e. Swain) or Ryze (lol) Urgot is probably going to be my most played champion removed from the game since Xerath. The new version doesn't check any of the old boxes except aesthetics, honestly the only way I see myself interested in this character is if I was playing to gain elo (which is basically never) and he was s tier.
On July 18 2017 04:11 Slusher wrote: In the absence of old graves being deleted I like new graves. (Not in any way an advocate of a cait rework )
See, for me, I dislike it from both sides. First, Old Graves was cool, and I loved playing him in the Riot Graves skin someone here gave me like 3 years ago. Second, they did all the ADC reworks to create "diversity" but old Graves would be very unique right now in the game. New Graves is a pretty milktoast jungler/bruiser from my POV, and the fact that Jihn exists makes his ammo mechanic pretty silly as well.
Short range, high burst, low cd dash, good early game, ult you can use to clear a wave with relative safety?
I mean, there are important differences between the two but you can't say Riot's stance is baseless. If I recall correctly, Caitlyn and Jinx had the same problem for a while, and I think old Graves and Lucian have more similarities than these two.
I'm probably missing a lot. Adc is easily my worst role, so sorry if I'm missing something obvious.
Lucian is played using his abilities to fuel his passive Graves was played to damage people with his abilities
The closest thing to graves on live is probably mf , in terms of trying to burst people with your abilities then follow up like a traditional adc as best you can.
Yea. Old Graves and Old Lucian served similar roles, but accomplished it in different ways. Lucian was always "slicker", and now since the Lucian changes he is almost nothing like old Graves.
New Graves has his arguments as the only "Ranged AD Bruiser", but I find he plays more like a melee bruiser with some long range abilities.
Old Graves' ult didnt one-shot the early on like Lucian's does (also Graves' ult never did half a tank's hp even when ungodly fed), but aside from that the whole "short range, bursts using spells" shtick was what riot said.
On July 17 2017 10:25 Sent. wrote: I think the problem with Caitlyn's traps (and Maokai's saplings) could be solved by making them destroyable after using the red trinket on them. Though that would require buffing Caitlyn elsewhere since it would ruin her sieging power.
Or they could just revert back to how it was before, so she can't carry so many of them at once and can have 3 max on the field. Cait traps were always obnoxious, she just didn't have a nigh infinite supply of them until they decided it would be a great idea if Caitlyn could siege towers with near impunity. Like she had a problem sieging towers before. The damage nonsense was just the icing on the stupid. And the interactions with Zhonyas, GA, and teleport are the pie to go with the cake.
They did it with Kog, no reason they can't do it with Caitlyn.
The number of traps on the field isn't too important, it's the fact you can place them for a ton of damage. It counters Zhonyas, but I think even more important is that a good Cait can chain the ability with quite a few supports (Thresh, Braum, Blitz, Nami off the top of my head). And Caits headhshot trap does a ton of damage, especially considering the range. The rest of her kit is decent, she also has long range, but if not for her traps she would be a lot weaker.
The number of traps is super relevant wtf? Imagine a world where a cait who wants to have a trap ready for cc can't drop more than one trap in the lane, imagine a world where trapping a tower for seize or defense put traps on cool down for 60-90 seconds. The traps being good isn't inherently a problem, champions should have benefits to being picked. So what if you made the traps an actual resource where they don't feel unlimited late game? Maybe a sightstone mechanic where she has to base to reload? TBH I haven't seen nearly as much cait since the patch so maybe it's a non issue.
i think something simpler like a cd on how many traps she can shit out at once would be good.
maybe like it takes an extra 5 seconds until you place your next trap
so it would give teams an extra wave or so to make a play instead of like now where a caitlyn can block off an entire route in like 2 seconds.
she should be strong in these type of siege scenarios, but she shouldn't be able to instantly set up another trap supported siege in a different location faster than a team can actually rotate. give slight windows where the enemy team can pull off something.
On July 19 2017 05:40 dsyxelic wrote: that would make her traps pretty garbo
i think something simpler like a cd on how many traps she can shit out at once would be good.
maybe like it takes an extra 5 seconds until you place your next trap
so it would give teams an extra wave or so to make a play instead of like now where a caitlyn can block off an entire route in like 2 seconds.
she should be strong in these type of siege scenarios, but she shouldn't be able to instantly set up another trap supported siege in a different location faster than a team can actually rotate. give slight windows where the enemy team can pull off something.
The other possibility is to shrink the size of the traps by about 15. so you can't block off the a whole lane without leaving holes.
That's nice I guess. Will bring me up to around 300k without having to play at all. Was much more excited about the idea of special skins... Seems kinda like a player like me gets the worst end of this deal, i don't gain anything but a number I can't use, but Riot also loses tons of money so I get less content?
I know this is meant to be a huge "hey guys we love yall", and a move to make losing runes feel less bad, but meh.
On July 21 2017 09:25 iCanada wrote: Apparently I will soon have like 200k IP.
That's nice I guess. Will bring me up to around 300k without having to play at all. Was much more excited about the idea of special skins... Seems kinda like a player like me gets the worst end of this deal, i don't gain anything but a number I can't use, but Riot also loses tons of money so I get less content?
I know this is meant to be a huge "hey guys we love yall", and a move to make losing runes feel less bad, but meh.
Edit: I'm retarded, LOL. NVM.
you only get the refund if you've spent recently. otherwise they're coming up with other compensation that will likely be underwhelming and undisclosed for months
I red gud and though they were refunding all money spent on runes for some reason. Only since end of may.
I wasn't really negative about it, just kind of confused / underwhelmed by the supposed reward for something that would cost Riot a lot of money. That being said, whatever they do it is a free game and whether I like the changes or not I;ll probably play them.
That being said... I am skeptical about this new rune system. (if you can call them runes... since they are also gutting Masteries is feels like they just scrapped Runes entirely then split Masteries so people couldn't say content was being removed.) Especially the way they are saying they are adding specialized stat boosts to all champions to make up for level 1 feeling bad without runes. That approach scares the hell out of me, feels real bad, because I'm old now and have fully embraced the transformation from a Spike to a Johnny (although I'm definitely not all the way there, pay a lot of attention to op.gg for the average Johnny, tbh). For example one of my most played champs this season is Jungle Taric coming in at 150 GP. Fun as hell, also decent (read, flat worse than much of the "meta" pool 90% of the time) at jungling and dueling if you have the right quirky runes; not top tier in the slightest but a lot of fun, even though the top tier does frankly does beat it at pretty much everything. I've also played a lot of Jungle Cho, but I guess that's T1 this patch...
I guess what i am saying is, without old-school runes a lot of stuff just wont work anymore. Champions will be pigeonhole a lot more into boxes that they can currently escape if it makes sense. As a jungler I am frankly worried the number of champs that can just clear the jungle will dwindle incredibly from nearly half the pool to maybe 8 champs. /shrug. Even in lanes... without armor runes a lot of stuff will feeel really bad against a bully like Pantheon. Will create mandatory viable pools for roles I fear.
It sucks because I've long considered stuff like ADC Kennen / Ahri viable, but maybe not so much anymore if they are starting the game with AP and CDR or some shit while enemy Cait is starting with AD and AS.
I guess we'll see what happens. But I am skeptical.
On July 21 2017 14:25 iCanada wrote: Especially the way they are saying they are adding specialized stat boosts to all champions to make up for level 1 feeling bad without runes. That approach scares the hell out of me, feels real bad,
Well.. I mean it depends if they implement them in the hamfisted way "Ori gets 20 AP" or if they adjust base numbers in a way that makes sense.
The Hamfisted way is super riot territory unfortunately. but maaaybe they'll just beef up base stats across the board, which would be real nice.
I am looking forward to more diverse and interesting "Keystones" though. the current ones are all suuuper first draft. Though i expect they wont go far enough in making them different, stuff like "your single target spells deal 20% less damage/healing to the initial target, but bounce to a second" that kind of thing would be really cool.
On July 21 2017 13:37 JimmiC wrote: I really dont understand all the complaining and assumptions being so negative. Its a free to play game, that you can just lose by someone out spending you. So if you want to spend nothing but time you actually can and get to the highest levels.
On top of that they release the keys and chest which give an opportunity to unlock the stuff you used to have no choice but to pay for.
Cut them some slack and wait and see. They have been pretty fair in the past despite some posters chicken little rants at every patch.
You can't lose by someone outspending you?
I have zero faith in Riot to offset the loss of rune stats into champion stats in a way that doesn't suck.
I loathe when people use "the game is free lol" as an excuse for any mistakes. I don't even really have a steak in this particular argument until we see what they do for sure, but that reasoning reeks of scrub mentality
On July 21 2017 23:18 Slusher wrote: I loathe when people use "the game is free lol" as an excuse for any mistakes. I don't even really have a steak in this particular argument until we see what they do for sure, but that reasoning reeks of scrub mentality
I particularly love when they use that excuse and are so flagrant they feed hard enough to lose it.
On July 21 2017 13:37 JimmiC wrote: I really dont understand all the complaining and assumptions being so negative. Its a free to play game, that you can just lose by someone out spending you. So if you want to spend nothing but time you actually can and get to the highest levels.
On top of that they release the keys and chest which give an opportunity to unlock the stuff you used to have no choice but to pay for.
Cut them some slack and wait and see. They have been pretty fair in the past despite some posters chicken little rants at every patch.
You can't lose by someone outspending you?
I have zero faith in Riot to offset the loss of rune stats into champion stats in a way that doesn't suck.
Yes, most free to play games people can simply out spend the free to play guy and have more levels stats or whatever.
VA mainly against your tears, since thats all you do. Others complain sometimes. It may seem like im only on one side but that is because it is annoying when this thread moves from discussion about the game to the ridiculous evil riot meme.
You can't lose by someone outspending you in this game, which is the relevant thing.
The chest and keys was a beta test of who would spen $100+ dollars to random a Vayne or Annie skin. the trend in f2p monitization is moving away from the riot model and they wanted too see if they could leverage their good will to move into that system. So sure you can dislike that I poo poo on free skins but in my eyes it's a market test to increasing individual skin costs by 50-100%.
On July 21 2017 13:37 JimmiC wrote: I really dont understand all the complaining and assumptions being so negative. Its a free to play game, that you can just lose by someone out spending you. So if you want to spend nothing but time you actually can and get to the highest levels.
On top of that they release the keys and chest which give an opportunity to unlock the stuff you used to have no choice but to pay for.
Cut them some slack and wait and see. They have been pretty fair in the past despite some posters chicken little rants at every patch.
You can't lose by someone outspending you?
I have zero faith in Riot to offset the loss of rune stats into champion stats in a way that doesn't suck.
Yes, most free to play games people can simply out spend the free to play guy and have more levels stats or whatever.
VA mainly against your tears, since thats all you do. Others complain sometimes. It may seem like im only on one side but that is because it is annoying when this thread moves from discussion about the game to the ridiculous evil riot meme.
You can't lose by someone outspending you in this game, which is the relevant thing.
Thank you.
And to slusher and above, my point is not that it being free absolves them of all wrongs. My point is SOME not all of the posters need to stop pretending like the sky is falling after every patch (they are still here after how many years, it can't be that bad) And stop posting emo "riot is surely going to screw up this giveaway" posts. As I posted the whole chest and keys thing was a pretty nice free incentive and people even bitched about that.
Alright if you could stop being vague and try responding with something that makes sense instead that would be great. You said earlier 'I really dont understand all the complaining and assumptions being so negative. Its a free to play game, that you can just lose by someone out spending you' which isn't true but also seems to be the opposite of what you're saying now, and still leaves me wondering what any of this has to do with the discussion. I thought it was some comment on runes being pay to win...
On July 21 2017 23:46 Slusher wrote: The chest and keys was a beta test of who would spen $100+ dollars to random a Vayne or Annie skin. the trend in f2p monitization is moving away from the riot model and they wanted too see if they could leverage their good will to move into that system. So sure you can dislike that I poo poo on free skins but in my eyes it's a market test to increasing individual skin costs by 50-100%.
Well if you assume it it must be true!
I see it as obviously they are a business and want to generate money. So it gives people the choice of waiting a long time and getting them or tempting them into spending early
Also, since many people seem confused by this fact. It is ok to make money, in fact if they didn't this game wouldn't exist. Since, despite all the complaints, we enjoy this game. We should want them to continue to make money so the game continues to exist.
Lets stop pretending this is big pharma making the epipen cost 5000% more. Or claiming opioids are not additive. They make a computer game, one we like and choose to spend our time on. And we have a choice to spend or not spend. It is a pretty good deal for the consumer. Whether you agree with or like each patch does not change the above.
It's just a statement of fact lootbox systems are more expensive as a paying customer I would prefer to stick with the a la carte system, even at the loss of free trinkets time to time.
It's not a big assumption to make all of the games in the f2p space are lootbox or converting to lootbox.
Shitting on people for standing up for their interests "it's ONLY a 2x price increase lol " is actually pretty beta
Lootbox systems are essentially the scum of the scum targeting people much the same way a casino or loan shark targets individuals.
I'd say this is merely an extension of the original Mobile game shitfest model of "whales". Building a system so it's addictive enough that people spend more money than they can afford to spend.
A bit of a side rant and doesn't have much to do with Patch 7.14 general discussion.
On July 21 2017 21:47 VayneAuthority wrote: looks like jimmiC has taken over for GI as the resident riot shill, his last 15 or so posts are literally all crying about crying. the irony
Yeah, VA is the real well-adjusted poster on this forum, as we all know.
It's no secret that this forum overreacts constantly. People claimed release Duskblade was so broken OP that even AP champs would build it. Jungle timers were supposed to ruin the game - that is, whatever game was left to be ruined after trinkets destroyed it first. So when I read stuff like:
On July 21 2017 21:02 Ansibled wrote: I have zero faith in Riot to offset the loss of rune stats into champion stats in a way that doesn't suck.
I mean, yeah, I don't think it'll be magically perfect the first day of preseason, but I certainly have more faith in the developers of a game that has kept everyone playing for almost a decade, than this forum and its hilarious track record.
On July 21 2017 23:46 Slusher wrote: The chest and keys was a beta test of who would spen $100+ dollars to random a Vayne or Annie skin. the trend in f2p monitization is moving away from the riot model and they wanted too see if they could leverage their good will to move into that system. So sure you can dislike that I poo poo on free skins but in my eyes it's a market test to increasing individual skin costs by 50-100%.
Well if you assume it it must be true!
I see it as obviously they are a business and want to generate money. So it gives people the choice of waiting a long time and getting them or tempting them into spending early
Also, since many people seem confused by this fact. It is ok to make money, in fact if they didn't this game wouldn't exist. Since, despite all the complaints, we enjoy this game. We should want them to continue to make money so the game continues to exist.
Lets stop pretending this is big pharma making the epipen cost 5000% more. Or claiming opioids are not additive. They make a computer game, one we like and choose to spend our time on. And we have a choice to spend or not spend. It is a pretty good deal for the consumer. Whether you agree with or like each patch does not change the above.
It's just a statement of fact lootbox systems are more expensive as a paying customer I would prefer to stick with the a la carte system, even at the loss of free trinkets time to time.
It's not a big assumption to make all of the games in the f2p space are lootbox or converting to lootbox.
Shitting on people for standing up for their interests "it's ONLY a 2x price increase lol " is actually pretty beta
Your post is really confusing because 99.95% of the content is available in the store. Three skins that require "whale" purchases doesn't really seem like destroying the soul of the game. This isn't Overwatch, where you have no choice but to buy crates, or TF2, where every Unusual cost at least $250 in keys. The loot-exclusive skins aren't even the best ones for their champions.
Heros of the storm and marvel heroes omega are 2 examples of previously riot model f2p that have fully converted to lootbox. Was hextech Annie a beta test, maybe I'm wrong but I'm glad it failed it is not unprecedented to convert.
I have been specific in my complaints in the past even offering to pay legendary price for Annie. My interest here isn't to fuck the f2p players but to protect my interests as an a la carte customer.
My example is real but it is also a metaphor for va and his runes or any other thing people who clearly play this game a lot complain about. I just want the game to stay good it's more productive to suggest how a good rune update could look than hope they get it right imo. People are just protecting their interests, I hope my favorite character is still fun is just one of them. Top lane tanks running aspd reds isn't exactly intuitive from a design perspective. Obviously diamond+ data scraping can hopefully account for this, but I don't blame a Nasus main for having concerns.
On July 21 2017 21:47 VayneAuthority wrote: looks like jimmiC has taken over for GI as the resident riot shill, his last 15 or so posts are literally all crying about crying. the irony
Yeah, VA is the real well-adjusted poster on this forum, as we all know.
It's no secret that this forum overreacts constantly. People claimed release Duskblade was so broken OP that even AP champs would build it. Jungle timers were supposed to ruin the game - that is, whatever game was left to be ruined after trinkets destroyed it first. So when I read stuff like:
On July 21 2017 21:02 Ansibled wrote: I have zero faith in Riot to offset the loss of rune stats into champion stats in a way that doesn't suck.
I mean, yeah, I don't think it'll be magically perfect the first day of preseason, but I certainly have more faith in the developers of a game that has kept everyone playing for almost a decade, than this forum and its hilarious track record.
On July 21 2017 23:46 Slusher wrote: The chest and keys was a beta test of who would spen $100+ dollars to random a Vayne or Annie skin. the trend in f2p monitization is moving away from the riot model and they wanted too see if they could leverage their good will to move into that system. So sure you can dislike that I poo poo on free skins but in my eyes it's a market test to increasing individual skin costs by 50-100%.
Well if you assume it it must be true!
I see it as obviously they are a business and want to generate money. So it gives people the choice of waiting a long time and getting them or tempting them into spending early
Also, since many people seem confused by this fact. It is ok to make money, in fact if they didn't this game wouldn't exist. Since, despite all the complaints, we enjoy this game. We should want them to continue to make money so the game continues to exist.
Lets stop pretending this is big pharma making the epipen cost 5000% more. Or claiming opioids are not additive. They make a computer game, one we like and choose to spend our time on. And we have a choice to spend or not spend. It is a pretty good deal for the consumer. Whether you agree with or like each patch does not change the above.
It's just a statement of fact lootbox systems are more expensive as a paying customer I would prefer to stick with the a la carte system, even at the loss of free trinkets time to time.
It's not a big assumption to make all of the games in the f2p space are lootbox or converting to lootbox.
Shitting on people for standing up for their interests "it's ONLY a 2x price increase lol " is actually pretty beta
Your post is really confusing because 99.95% of the content is available in the store. Three skins that require "whale" purchases doesn't really seem like destroying the soul of the game. This isn't Overwatch, where you have no choice but to buy crates, or TF2, where every Unusual cost at least $250 in keys. The loot-exclusive skins aren't even the best ones for their champions.
yea but you're also the guy that will claim hotfixing singed at 55% winrate while leaving cho'gath at his 57% winrate is perfectly fine and riot made an excellent decision and is the best company of all time. So yea nobody really takes you and your new shill bud seriously.
this forum is dead enough as it is, we don't need everybody singing kumbaya in here and praising lord riot. People like controversy, not just agreeing with everything they do.
I dont think riot necessarily should refund all these things either but will be slightly salty at the people cock blocking others from getting free virtual stuff. Let the complainers complain and I will reap the benefits as well. People defending riot or making posts on reddit saying people shouldnt complain are worse. There is honestly no point to it besides some false moral points in saving a company some virtual points. Lets be real, the vast majority of complainers are people who wouldnt buy rp for these things in the first place.
Thats funny, because even though Skip is loud, hes the most well informed of the loud guys. He runs circles around Steven A., Kellerman, Sharpe, Carter, Wright, Torre, Jones, Lebatard, etc when it comes to actual sports knowledge and ability to back up claims. He gets criticism because he's the most popular, but he's the most popular because he's actually skilled at his yelling thing and everyone else is just an uniformed impersonator.
Reasonable or not... seems kind of scummy to refund one and not the other.
Rune pages practically worthless in update. Not even convenient because like masteiew you probably have a different optimal path pending opponent regardless. So like.... having more rune pages is something you'll only do if you are new / trash and don't care.
Creates kind of an inverse spread of runepage ownership vs need/want for rune pages.
You could make an argument that not refunding RP purchases on champs that they do those full reworks(ie: delete and replace with completely different champ) is worse than not compensating rune pages. You can still use rune pages but you can never use old graves again or pop people with old dumb Sion
I hope this update decreases customization. Its boring. I want the same runes/mastery to be optimal for all champions, or at least for the same champion every time. Nothing is lamer than being in champ select and quickly changing things up because you thought you were up against Vlad, but now you are against Kled.
Well if there was no real customization and now they potentially adding in customization why are they decreasing it? Think that's something to bitch about when you actually see the whole system. Instead of being snarky about now when realistically there wasn't really any customization going on for the most part.
TBH, I'm pretty sad that they're getting rid of runes. I really enjoyed the fringe benefits of having better rune choices than the average player. Plus, it's interesting how differently you can play champions based on rune choices to take advantage of specific spikes. I think it would be better if they kept runes and made them all free and gave players 5 free rune pages to start. I think the thing I'll miss the most will be being able to customize for lane (especially against assassins). Instinct says removing runes is better for assassins being able to start the snowball early.
Since I've been leveling a second account; I remembered how much advantage runes are. At one point I remember doing the math on the gold value of a rune set (iirc the average being 1300-1800).
On July 22 2017 07:50 Numy wrote: 99.9% of people didn't own enough runes to change things around or even bother anyway...
It is the same as jungle timers. You could have very big advantages in the game by using them but the vast majority of people didn't. Summoner spells should be the next step after a while.
On July 22 2017 07:50 Numy wrote: 99.9% of people didn't own enough runes to change things around or even bother anyway...
It is the same as jungle timers. You could have very big advantages in the game by using them but the vast majority of people didn't. Summoner spells should be the next step after a while.
It's a bit different than jungle timers. because timers is something that you can start doing on the fly .
With runes they are inherently super limited because you can't make your page in champ select. So you get punished for having specific matchup and team comp specific rune pages because you have no idea what you are going to run into when you hit queue. So you end up with generic "vs Phys, Vs Magic, vs Tank" etc rune pages. That have little nuance, and you arent rewarded for learning that nuance.
The solution to that isn't remove them though. it's to allow customized pages during champ select, so you can garner a bigger advantage based on game knowledge with your rune customization.
But a complete set of runes is incredibly prohibitive. and the added time in champ select is something they try to desperately avoid whenever they can. even at the cost of in game experience and meta-game experience.
Though removing the stat based system for unique effects is something that can be significantly more interesting and impactful. But uh... the stuff they've released or spoiled, has been pretty uninspiring, like the overcharge "extra CDR goes to offense".
The overheal thing, healing on your champ over max HP converts fractionally to a shield, is at least interesting, and has some cool synergy with stuff like mundo. But those seem to be the minority. and it looks like we'll be getting stuff that just mixes stats around and adds damage much more than stuff that alters the way your spells work. I was hoping more Diablo3 ability modifiers and less diablo 3 item affixes.
There are a lot of standard rune pages though. Yes, it's nice to have a rune page for every matchup, but if you play 2 roles, you can get away with 3-4 standard rune pages, any more is luxury.
Personally I always found it dumb that you had to buy the rune pages and couldn't edit in champ select, but it's true that it would make the select even longer, which no one wants.
I generally have been filling as of late. And have tended to play Jng/Sup more then not previous to that. Generally even in Jng you want 4-5 rune setups alone dependent on who you're playing, whether they need flat CDR, whether they need armor seals or can kite, whether they need AP or if health is better, etc. even for supports you can want a decent mix of runes even though 2-3 generic pages will cover most things. For laners, I think you can get away with 2-3 pages; mid might want a bit more if you want scaling CDR.
On July 21 2017 23:18 Slusher wrote: I loathe when people use "the game is free lol" as an excuse for any mistakes. I don't even really have a steak in this particular argument until we see what they do for sure, but that reasoning reeks of scrub mentality
I particularly love when they use that excuse and are so flagrant they feed hard enough to lose it.
This has to be the best post in several general discussion threads in ages.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mZfLcsQ.png)
