EPT[Patch 6.14] What is Ryze General Discussion - Page 3
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
On July 14 2016 06:16 nafta wrote: It is true though. She is insanely easy to shutdown with proper play but she just shits on retards. doesnt help that some champions randomly shit on her because her e can be stopped don't know why they keep that in like she relies on her E so much | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On July 14 2016 05:47 kongoline wrote: lol both mao and malph are in general hated by everybody even pro players complain when they are meta, besides i dont think i complained here about fizz or zed ( as a diana/cho 1 trick i loved free win lanes), no surprise tho got used to Alaric talking out of his ass, tell us again how weak and bad is viktor after rework Pro players don't know what makes pro games fun and balanced. The reason that teams are running Ashe in competitive is because they are desperate for engage. Malphite and Maokai are not fun for toplaners to play because they don't solo carry. All the toplaners want Irelia vs. Fiora vs. Yasuo vs. Renekton to be the meta forever. But the reality is that if that were the "meta" one would be the best and be permabanned, and we would see a 3 man rotation toplane, but also all supports and junglers would have to play tanky engage champions otherwise the team would have its thumb up its ass for 45 minutes as they dick around dragons and barons, which then would also limit ADC choices because many need niche supports to get them through laning phase. So we have midlaners being the only ones who have a choice on what to play. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On July 14 2016 07:35 kongoline wrote: no they hate them because they are utterly braindead, easy to play and make skill difference between players almost irrelevant, ashe isnt only picked because of engage she also has great damage,laning and range. From current meta picks theres still stuff like braum,ali,gragas,azirsec,cassio r, shen taunt, hecarim,liss for hard engage , besides both mao and malph are still viable, mao was played quiet a bit in both lck and lcs after nerfs Almost none of those aside from Hecarim and Ali are real engage. That you even listed thinks like Cassio and Shen is hilarious. I havent seen much Hecarim, and obviously Ali is down because of some nerfs (the only reason he is picked is because of engage). And also, if you don't like malphite and maokai because they are "braindead" riot reworks champions all the time, and there is no reason you can't make hard engage champs that arent (even though I disagree with the general assertion). The problem is they can't get laning right, thus there is no toplane diversity and optimal setups emerge because if Malphite is better 1-10 than Fiora, but loses 1v1 after, teams can dodge that for 50% of those levels for no punishment. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
On July 14 2016 08:55 cLutZ wrote: Almost none of those aside from Hecarim and Ali are real engage. That you even listed thinks like Cassio and Shen is hilarious. gragas,lissandra? hows shen taunt flash laughable and mao 525 W not? anyway im done you are hopeless. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Gragas is better than shen, worse than real engagers like Amumu, Malphite, Sejuani. I understand that engage has always been weak in league (ala the CLG.EU vs. WE games), but changing that could change up the kite comps we see so often right now. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On July 14 2016 05:47 kongoline wrote: lol both mao and malph are in general hated by everybody even pro players complain when they are meta, besides i dont think i complained here about fizz or zed ( as a diana/cho 1 trick i loved free win lanes), no surprise tho got used to Alaric talking out of his ass, tell us again how weak and bad is viktor after rework I will say I was wrong about Viktor 2.5. 2.0 was bad but the recent changes were really valuable in letting him abuse rylais. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On July 14 2016 10:07 cLutZ wrote: Maokai is only considered engage because he goes through flash, otherwise yes, his range is abysmal. He also creates a zone of damage reduction your team can kongaline into. Gragas is better than shen, worse than real engagers like Amumu, Malphite, Sejuani. I understand that engage has always been weak in league (ala the CLG.EU vs. WE games), but changing that could change up the kite comps we see so often right now. I think you underrate Gragas Engage. I think Gragas has a better engage than Amumu and Malph just in general. More range, more lock up. Perhaps less reliable, but you also have much better ability to punish positioning mistakes because of the range and the ability to exacerbate them with Ulti. I would call Gragas a real engage champion. And this is coming from a Sejuani player. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
1) His tp engage is simply not great at locking up priority targets; 2) His lock up is bad if he utilizes his range, or his range is bad if he tries to optimize lockup. Yes his E-Flash-Ult has great range, but mostly you end up ulting the priority targets away while you end up 1v1 or 1v2 against enemy tanks without flash, and your carries just as far away as their own. IMO he is best as a secondary engage or mid-fight disruption (probably best in the game at that). | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On July 14 2016 12:57 iCanada wrote: I think you underrate Gragas Engage. I think Gragas has a better engage than Amumu and Malph just in general. More range, more lock up. Perhaps less reliable, but you also have much better ability to punish positioning mistakes because of the range and the ability to exacerbate them with Ulti. I would call Gragas a real engage champion. And this is coming from a Sejuani player. Except he can't engage at all without flash unlike the other 2. Amumu's engage is better he is just very weak early game like sejuani. Gragas has solid ranged waveclear too which is VERY rare for junglers. Even if you tp behind them gragas ult is insanely easy to dodge with most abilities/flash. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On July 14 2016 07:17 Slayer91 wrote: doesnt help that some champions randomly shit on her because her e can be stopped don't know why they keep that in like she relies on her E so much Because it's a good counterplay mechanic. Pick Thresh and play him properly, all of a sudden Leona doesn't seem so OP, since then she has to hit her ultimate. I don't see anything wrong with Leona right now, I actually enjoy her being in lane as opposed to Zyra and Karma. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On July 14 2016 07:17 Slayer91 wrote: doesnt help that some champions randomly shit on her because her e can be stopped don't know why they keep that in like she relies on her E so much It's like basic support counterplay 101. Most of the playerbase is Bronze or below and so countering Leona E with Janna Q is like a meaningful thing and prepares them for more advanced mechanics. In any event Leona was still played at the pro level even though her E could be canceled, so I don't think the kit is inherently busted. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
It's not like "windows" was an issue, she's looking to build CDR too (she doesn't need to stack tank stats, some HP to survive, and then the CDR along with her W makes her sturdy). Gragas' "hard engage" is based on E-flash, Shen's "hard engage" would be a taunt-flash, or incredibly forced "engage" using his ult on a stealth or sped-up target. In comparison Malphite's great (when flanking; since homeguard TP was nerfed it's a lot harder for him to make his ult fast/brief enough to not get flashed), and Maokai's got a point'n'click tool that bypasses Flash (Riot still hasn't fixed how Caitlyn, Ezreal, Tristana and similar jumps aren't followed and still cast while the champions are rooted though, so at this point I'm going to assume it was made on purpose and just a stealth nerf they didn't list in the notes). Plus you need them to be tanky, even if it makes them "braindead" in your eyes. Vi doesn't work as well in a non-burst/assassin comp because she'll get blown up before whoever she's ulting otherwise since she's squishier (and she doesn't do as much damage later on since they nerfed her base damage and she doesn't have %HP damage, for example). But hey, let's blame top lane and pretend you can have Maokai and Malphite be brain-dead while Braum, Vlad, Alistar, etc. are pinacles of mechanics and basic decision-making. What. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On July 14 2016 22:15 kongoline wrote: hahah i was right teemo is good, Shy plays him in lck right now ! tfw when you rush to the boards to post this and then find out it was a misclick | ||
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