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On May 19 2016 03:02 cLutZ wrote:
Rageblade theoretically should be good on Udyr or Jax because they want to be constantly hitting minions or jungle camps anyways.
The problem is I've never been in a Jax matchup (aside from some of the broken Ryze eras) where I have gotten to 3.5k gold successfully and been like "Yea, what I really need to do now is make my splitpush sustained damage better!" No, you want burst so people can't run away from you when you jump on them, you want slows for the same reason, and you want to be not-terrible in teamfights.
yeah but you kill minions in like 6 hits anyway on udyr and you don't need an item to kill minions
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Saw this on the subreddit, I can only assume it's legit. Should (in theory) make 4v5s a bit more manageable: http://oce.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/play-games-matter/remake
TL;DR version: If you are the team down a player, and said player hasn't connected to the game for at least 90s within the first 3 minutes, you get 1 minute to vote/enter the command /remake in chat box (also prompted to do so by chat window), assuming first blood hasn't occurred yet. No IP/XP/LP gain or loss for either team, DC'ed player eats a lot of flack (leaver buster, lose LP, etc.), and you can re-queue right away.
They're supposedly going to try this out in patch 6.11, so hopefully it works. I mean, if a 4v5 happens post /remake the best way to get the remake now is to just sit in base and not even go out to lane. Opposing team can't suicide to turrets/monsters to keep the game going, it has to be a PvP kill.
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On May 19 2016 03:12 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2016 03:02 cLutZ wrote:
Rageblade theoretically should be good on Udyr or Jax because they want to be constantly hitting minions or jungle camps anyways.
The problem is I've never been in a Jax matchup (aside from some of the broken Ryze eras) where I have gotten to 3.5k gold successfully and been like "Yea, what I really need to do now is make my splitpush sustained damage better!" No, you want burst so people can't run away from you when you jump on them, you want slows for the same reason, and you want to be not-terrible in teamfights. yeah but you kill minions in like 6 hits anyway on udyr and you don't need an item to kill minions
Of course, I just mean for keeping up stacks. Just like Jax though, he mostly dumpsters in sidanes anyways.
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you can't keep up stacks in teamfights from jungle camps wtf?
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Remake seems amazing. Best change since new champ select.
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All high level games end with that sick Krug contest.
I mean... I guess its good if you on baron / elder drake or whatever. But even still, like what if you guys don't have tempo, and have to check into them doing baron / elder drake?
I just really hate the item. Relatively useless in like 75% of your game play, and where it is useful for most champions you would have been just as well getting literally any item in the game. Might be good on certain ADC, I dunno I don't play or know that shit.
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On May 19 2016 03:24 Slayer91 wrote:
you can't keep up stacks in teamfights from jungle camps wtf?
You are arguing with an imaginary person. I was saying why it sucks.
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On May 19 2016 03:47 iCanada wrote:
All high level games end with that sick Krug contest.
I mean... I guess its good if you on baron / elder drake or whatever. But even still, like what if you guys don't have tempo, and have to check into them doing baron / elder drake?
I just really hate the item. Relatively useless in like 75% of your game play, and where it is useful for most champions you would have been just as well getting literally any item in the game. Might be good on certain ADC, I dunno I don't play or know that shit.
It's potentially good on vayne and kayle and teemo that is basically it. No one else has enough on-hit to matter and no one else has enough secondary AS to get to 6 stacks reasonably fast.
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On May 19 2016 03:03 Goumindong wrote:
Victor gained 4% or more on his win rate and is now above 50% so yea I would say that is stronger! Not sure what the items suggest about his play pattern but I bet you abuse the CDR on abyssal to q->e ->q to kill people.
Yeah the highest winning build is abyssal-rylai-max hexcore into dcap void.
Re GP: through all of that he's still squishy and easy enough to focus down, so as far as I'm concerned new gp is awesome. He's just as annoying as any other poke champion if you don't have engage (probs more than some b/c of oranges) but he's way more engaging.
Also Syndra is reaally good rn. Her play style got way more simple and every Syndra main dislikes it as far as I understand, but if ppl are asking about raw strength her changes were a buff. She's just not fun to play anymore as far as I'm concerned.
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On May 19 2016 03:48 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2016 03:24 Slayer91 wrote:
you can't keep up stacks in teamfights from jungle camps wtf? You are arguing with an imaginary person. I was saying why it sucks.
oh
you said theoretically good and i was immediately triggered and skimmed the next paragraph
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On May 19 2016 03:57 Purge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2016 03:03 Goumindong wrote:
Victor gained 4% or more on his win rate and is now above 50% so yea I would say that is stronger! Not sure what the items suggest about his play pattern but I bet you abuse the CDR on abyssal to q->e ->q to kill people. Yeah the highest winning build is abyssal-rylai-max hexcore into dcap void. . not quite, it's actually void-> cap. Which makes sense to me.
I am guessing that the reason is this: his total e damage went up quite a bit but it's harder to land all of it. As did his total R damage. And while the scaling went up the relative scaling went down*. Abyssal -> rylai (zhonya-> rylai vs AD) gets you really tanks really fast but also means that you can ensure the e double hit by q slowing. It also makes it easier to keep people in his ult to get that hilarious first or second tick off.
*i think. I would have to check and am on my phone. By "relative" I mean "AP required to double damage" His q relative scaling went up post level 15 but down pre 15. (Due to the removal of level scaling and addition of extra rank scaling). His e might have stayed the same for a double hit but definitely went down for a single (most def up on the second hit) and his ult scaling almost certainly went down relatively.
Ed: what about his play are you having trouble with? Do you get the e upgrade before abyssal or after?
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On May 19 2016 04:12 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2016 03:57 Purge wrote:On May 19 2016 03:03 Goumindong wrote:
Victor gained 4% or more on his win rate and is now above 50% so yea I would say that is stronger! Not sure what the items suggest about his play pattern but I bet you abuse the CDR on abyssal to q->e ->q to kill people. Yeah the highest winning build is abyssal-rylai-max hexcore into dcap void. . not quite, it's actually void-> cap. Which makes sense to me. I am guessing that the reason is this: his total e damage went up quite a bit but it's harder to land all of it. As did his total R damage. And while the scaling went up the relative scaling went down*. Abyssal -> rylai (zhonya-> rylai vs AD) gets you really tanks really fast but also means that you can ensure the e double hit by q slowing. It also makes it easier to keep people in his ult to get that hilarious first or second tick off. *i think. I would have to check and am on my phone. By "relative" I mean "AP required to double damage" His q relative scaling went up post level 15 but down pre 15. (Due to the removal of level scaling and addition of extra rank scaling). His e might have stayed the same for a double hit but definitely went down for a single (most def up on the second hit) and his ult scaling almost certainly went down relatively.
Yeah you're right about that. It makes sense too because as I see teamfights happening rn, dropping your ult on their front line isn't as much a mistake as it used to be, especially if you're just having it hover on someone and permaslow. Anyone who ignores deathcloud now is just fucked. The penetration is important in that case, and also max hex seems important for the storm Ms bonus.
I guess I'll play through it a bit more.
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Are you getting the e upgrade early? Champion.gg isn't very informative because it only lists complete items but I am guessing that you get the e upgrade first and use the massive base damage to clear, then bully once you have rylai. I haven't played it myself (and I support main so not sure how good I would be at it) but that seems like the natural progression.
Edit: one thing to note is that the burst damage on his ult is now really shitty. Dropping the ult on the front line might not just be "not so bad" but ideal. The initial damage on the ult will be less than a single e hit at basically all points in the game (20 damage more at 16). While the tick damage will be a lot higher. So if you drop the ult on the back Line they have 2 seconds to kill you and get out before the real damage hits. But if you drop it on the front line they can't enter the storm without potentially getting wrecked and so will be able to zone/damage them for more of the fight.
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On May 19 2016 04:12 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2016 03:57 Purge wrote:On May 19 2016 03:03 Goumindong wrote:
Victor gained 4% or more on his win rate and is now above 50% so yea I would say that is stronger! Not sure what the items suggest about his play pattern but I bet you abuse the CDR on abyssal to q->e ->q to kill people. Yeah the highest winning build is abyssal-rylai-max hexcore into dcap void. . Ed: what about his play are you having trouble with? Do you get the e upgrade before abyssal or after?
It's when to get the second upgrade. The first you get asap (edit: before) the defensive core of either abyssal or Zhonyas afaik, but the second comes before or after rylai? I feel like you need the ms now more than ever to keep ult positioning and kite, but I also feel like you need rylais finished asap because of how it interacts with the ult. now that I'm thinking about the, there is probably some math involved based on when you would want the scaling, but I dunno.
Also I'm still trying to decide whether or not the newer items have a place, even situationally in his build.
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@MuddyJam
why would you buy both? I'm offering IBG as a potential in place of TF, maybe if you get shafted in lane.
IBG is decent instead of trinity I guess.
How many people are you trying to stick to at once here? It is extremely rare you don't have a ally to help cc. If you don't have an ally what situation are you expecting to go in 1v2 and need to stick to both players. Also you wouldn't need to be so concerned on getting blown up if you sunk that 3.1k from FM into a deadman's where you get more effective hp vs physical like aa. Like money wise I can buy a gunblade + deadman + boots while your sitting on FM and TF
"Extremely rare you don't have an ally to help CC"
You clearly haven't played many bruisers. When you go in you're on your own, your cc's are in the back like bitches ccing whoevers in range. Maybe in some other period of the game where leona and stuff are popular but right now its mostly peeling support tanks, your mid and adc who are staying back and your jungler is usually peeling or something too.
What kills are you getting with BOTH that you couldn't get with one? what situation are you seeing in a tf where the slow > tank
k
slow>tank any time anyone gets away from you after you jump them. Basically all of them.
Also Frozen mallet is pretty much a cost effective tank item for jax, so it's 2 birds with 1 stone.
Gunblade slow only lasts 2 seconds so if you get CC'd or something you can easily get that 2 seconds kited out and then you have nothing until Q is back. (one reason I like max cdr jax but you need to be fed to justify it)
so the squishy is tanking you through the gunblade slow? IF you plan to aa the front line then dive people why not rageblade which in this situation is more gold efficient will do more dmg and give more resistances.
Works in that situation but only that one. Could be a fair point.
Well you can proc the shen way more often on jax than the hydra active so either explain why you build hydra over it. If you build both you have no sustain/mr/tankiness outside ult. Are you not susceptible to poke? the resistance you are getting are not very much. What if you mess up? you seem to demand you will never get caught without ultimate or focused in a TF.
Yep getting poked/focused before ult is up is a risk but its not that bad since you don't have much to do as jax other than avoid poke pre teamfight. I usually buy resists to be safe I think titanic might be better if you play smart. You get
Hydra is more sustained damage than trinity probably, might be worth getting over it but I imagine getting both is smarter. It's a large amount of burst, seems like it might be good.
So you get focused and blown up due to your build being bad. So your conclusion is you need to make it worse by making yourself less tanky. If they are going to blow all their cc make it so it costs them alot. IF you getting cc'd means you lose than you have bigger issues than your burst. You teamfighting sounds like a coin flip. If your team is ahead you don't get the focus so you do a lot of damage. If your team is behind you get blown up and feel you need to become a burst mage. Your plan sounds like your team is carrying you.
No you don't necessarily get focused, that depends on when you go in etc. But you WILL get cc'd from the adc/support/mid whoever you're diving and usually the support will cc you too. The issue is that unless their support/mid used everything and their adc has no CC you will have issues sticking to targets. Getting focused might be okay becaues if they invest too much in focusing you (depends on teamfight context, can your team follow up during this time?) it's worth it since you're probably tanky as fuck.
why do you have to kill them? If you can take the towers then the champions are irrelevant. If they flash away thats a won trade for you. They aren't going to have flash again in 1 minute when your ult is back. Generally the top laner your pushing in will be a tank. How are you bursting them?
They can flash at the last minute to get the kill. The thing is once you're in tower aggro you'll take more damage trying to get out after the kill. Bursting a tank is hard but yea if you're fed and they try to clear the wave you can chunk them once or twice and then dive. If they're a fed tank yeah you dont try to dive that.
yeah sure. Lets watch a full tank jax with rageblade fight some people 1v1. Lets see the no damage that he does.
1v1's dont happen very much. Teamfights are a dynamic environment you don't often get to sit and auto people you move around and switch targets a lot. Of course rageblade is good in a 1v1 against a tank or something. Without reaching the 6 stack point it's pretty meh though.
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When I played viktor a lot the main thing I did was upgrade when I backed with 1k gold and didn't have anything else pertinent to buy. But the components of rylais and abyssal and zhonya aren't ever that hard to construct anymore so things might have changed.
As an aside. It might be worth considering a lichbane build(either arfter void or first). Just to abuse the wave clear and shove towers. But figuring out when/how/why is a bit beyond me.
Also note I edited my above post and that might shed some insight into your problems.
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Ye glad to see someone else sees what i mean with the ult changes. I find that because Vik is so heavily balanced around having E waveclear, just getting it to that point is most important first. I mean sure, if Zed's gonna jump on me and make life hard then I'll get some armor quicktime, but otherwise I really don't see a point to not just getting it first.
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Played around with Taliyah a bit in a bots game. Both her Q and E provide decent wave clear, E's on a longer CD with the delayed explosion, but does more damage. Q is shorter CD, less mana, but can really only fire in a straight line. It does have a small explosion AoE so it can damage a small clumped up section of creeps, but I feel like using the short CD combined with the worked ground and her decent AA range means most of your CSing in lane will be with AAs and Q on worked ground.
Riding the ult's wall is pretty difficult, at least if you smart cast it. You have to cast it, then instantly hit R again to ride along it. Like not even a second to react, you go along it or no. Wait too long and you either walk along it and get your passive rock surfing or collapse the wall too early. Sectioning off entire escape routes is pretty solid, but this thing strikes me as something that you NEED to co-ordinate with your team mates, probably beginning as early as champ select (Rumble ulti + her wall = a winning team fight).
I think the AP ratios on some of her spells are a bit undertuned, might get buffed a bit in the coming patches. I understand she's meant to be a controlling mage and they don't tend to do a ton of damage, but even with a full build (RoA - Ryleis - Liandrys - Void - Hourglass - M. Pen boots) against a high HP, low MR Darius it took her far too long to kill the tank. There's decent burst if you can land the combo (E-W-Q) but after that you're left throwing rocks with the Q.
Finally, I feel like she wants a bit of re-positioning, the bonus move speed on worked ground is nice, but it's possible buying the dashing Hextech item is worth it for team fight purposes.
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I'd be a bit worried about buffing her ratios, due to the nature of her Q and E there's a huge difference in how much damage actually get added from her AP: 1.2 on a horrible combo and almost three times as much on a perfect combo.
Looking forward to see some delicious Taliyah + someone (Alistar/Janna?) who can throw people around to proc max bombs on them.
But most importantly. Can Bard do a million range Journey with Taliyah's ultimate?
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On May 19 2016 10:11 Jek wrote:
I'd be a bit worried about buffing her ratios, due to the nature of her Q and E there's a huge difference in how much damage actually get added from her AP: 1.2 on a horrible combo and almost three times as much on a perfect combo.
Looking forward to see some delicious Taliyah + someone (Alistar/Janna?) who can throw people around to proc max bombs on them.
But most importantly. Can Bard do a million range Journey with Taliyah's ultimate?
Oh god, the rotations would be glorious.
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EPT
