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Alaric
France45622 Posts
But I'll take note that it elicits a reaction from certain people. Vel'Koz can apply his passive onto several people, with W's AoE (straight-line) or Q splitting up (on the sides) or E (all grouped up)... so yeah, it's technically possible, but not that realistic in a short time-span. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Quickly running it through my head, it's a net loss in crit but with the option to drop essence reaver in the build could be a net gain in terms of survivability? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
attack speed is less valuable for him though, so having attack speed on trinity and getting PD is a lot of inefficient AS essence reaver trinity IE was perfect for GP because it was AD+crit and big sheens on his Q. this is just worse for him. can get rapidfire cannon or somthing though | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
From release it used to be tentacles swing: - when you cast your ult - when there's a vessel in range (once per tentacle, not sure if repeated if you make the champ a vessel again) - when an spirit (from E) enters range, once - when you hit something in range with W Now the first one doesn't occur at all. Which means if you can get a 5-man ult and they cc you, and/or have a displacement to cancel your W "dash", you won't be doing any damage at all for 2-3 seconds + the duration of their cc. It also means you don't get the multiple 5% missing health heal (once per tentacle swing pretty much, after you ult, so easily 3-4 instances). Can't say I'm too thrilled about the prospect of such an impacting bug. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
No one who is halfway competent melee player will build that shit until they buff the stack mechanisms for melee champs. 6 Autos is just so many. That uptime is like impossible. | ||
zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Like... Shyv and Udyr are my top played champs this season. Ganking then controlling rivers got you Sated so much faster. Aint nobody gets Sated in 15-17 minutes farming. You need 2 drakes, and all the scuttles for that. I think Riot just hates Junglers carrying without being a 4th priority position who enables others. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On May 18 2016 12:19 iCanada wrote: Were there actual Junglers who AFK farmed till that shit came up? Like... Shyv and Udyr are my top played champs this season. Ganking then controlling rivers got you Sated so much faster. Aint nobody gets Sated in 15-17 minutes farming. You need 2 drakes, and all the scuttles for that. I think Riot just hates Junglers carrying without being a 4th priority position who enables others. You'd be surprised how many people just AFK farmed instead of controlling river. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 18 2016 11:02 iCanada wrote: I thjink its funny that Riot gave all these melee champs AP ratios so they can build Rageblade. No one who is halfway competent melee player will build that shit until they buff the stack mechanisms for melee champs. 6 Autos is just so many. That uptime is like impossible. Its not just rageblade/devourer. Go to any pro game. Watch a pro game, go to a teamfight and count the number of auto attacks each melle character gets off turning a teamfight before it is definitively won/lost. Its like 2. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On May 18 2016 12:53 Gahlo wrote: You'd be surprised how many people just AFK farmed instead of controlling river. Thats not the item though, thats them being bad. I might've been ~500 gold behind a jungler (assuming they farm real fast) who is power farming at 17 minutes when I been controlling rivers and ganking assuming I got no kills (which TBH, unless the other lanes are divable / real bad, I probably shouldn't have any), but i have Sated and they like 12 stacks away. At that point, for the next 5 minutes I WAAAY stronger than they would be, and I can catch up in gold easily from the farm advantage Sated gave you. I dunno, they don't balance the game around players who can't last hit, them balancing around bad junglers having no map pressure is kind of the same thing. Its pretty stupid too, because the best Sated junglers had some of the best skirmishing in the game. Even if your 2v2 worse, like a 16 minute sated Shyvana likely just kills everything. Even at like 12 minutes, Shyvana / Udyr / Kindred / Xin / Nocturne probably win most skirmishes unless other jungler is Elise / LeeSin or your lanes are way over matched. On May 18 2016 13:06 cLutZ wrote: Its not just rageblade/devourer. Go to any pro game. Watch a pro game, go to a teamfight and count the number of auto attacks each melle character gets off turning a teamfight before it is definitively won/lost. Its like 2. Yeah exactly. The 6-auto stack mechanic just makes rageblade such a non-starter for a melee champion. Even on Jax [I think Jax wants it regardless of the stacking] like if you can just get 6 free autos off you might as well have just bought IE. Like shit. At least with IE you might just 2 shot something. I don't even really think its a good dueling item on melees either, because I guarantee you the win in a 1v1 between like Shyv / Jax is going to be decided before 6 autos on either side go off. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
Not saying thats what is happening here but it's possible, in my last 3 weeks of play I think he got in 1 game, and slipped thru the draft in 1 other, and has been banned every other game so it's impossible for me to get a read on if he's even good post hot fix. I will say the one game I played he was pretty useless so sick sample size 0% win rate hero in my eyes. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4186 Posts
Couple of games I had to play against Veigar who absolutely crushed us with 1000ap at 25min or something like that, I actually asked people to ban him, however, no one ever picked him again in like 40 games. Then I had Vladimir, Cassiopea and Malz in few games and they did nothing special, neither fed nor carried, could not say anything about their power. Ziggs never appeared. So lets summarize it: 1. Brand & Annie - played as much as before - power level same as before 2. Vladimir, Cassio, Malz, Swain, Syndra, Anivia - rarely seen, hard to say anytning about their power level 3. Vel koz, Veigar, Fiddle - rarely seen, but strong as fuck 4. Zyra - appears often, as squishy as before, as damage dealing as before, but somehow more impactful than before 5. Ziggs, Xerath - never showed This is my opinion on these, if anyone can confirm & object please do so, I would like to read other opinions | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
Brand - Holy fuck the DoT damage is insane. Get tagged by two of his spells and you lose half your HP easy. Post 6 he can still 100-0 you even if you're solo. And in a teamfight, if he gets his rotation off, your team's dead or on like sub 10% HP. And all he needs for it is Rylei's and Liandrys, which is what they rush first and second anyway. Annie - Angry bear is angry. Seeing the ticks above her head for loaded stuns is better, good change on that. Bear probably needs a bit more HP, maybe gains more HP as she puts more points into the ult. Otherwise she's still strong, and the flash-ult is still teamfight-winning. Vlad - The ulti damage is weird, like if you don't get tagged by anything else it does nothing, but get hit by anything else and you might as well have gotten hit by an AoE version of Zed ult. Not as much sustain but still annoying in lane. Cassio - rip boots on snake lady. Loss of movespeed at early levels means she's super easy to gank. But if she ever gets gold and levels she's just as powerful as old Cassio. Malzahar - I always see him banned, never once had a game with him post 6.9 in the 40-ish games I've played. Swain - I forget which skill it was that you used to max first, but you don't max it first anymore. Swain traded a bit of sustain and tankiness for more burst, which is fine. Veigar - Somehow I think he's even more powerful, because stacking passive AP with every Q tagging a champ means even if you have piss poor CSing with Q, so long as you tag champs in lane phase you still get free AP. I've seen him hit 1k+ easy even before Deathcap. Zyra - Passive plant spawn is annoying as fuck, lets her get "free" harass in lane much easier. Still a powerful ulti, but still super squishy. Ziggs - Mostly the same, tbh. Clears lanes well, harasses as usual, and the satchel charge is probably useless because unless you harass your opponent out of lane a bunch of times odds are you won't get the turret to 25% HP in mid before lane phase ends and everyone goes mid to push your lane out and knock down that tower. Xerath - Seemed fine, getting more "artillery shells" at 11 and 16 with the ulti is cool, lets you siege or snipe people a lot easier, more room for error. Syndra, Anivia, Vel'Koz, and Fiddle - never saw, so no comment. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
if the trinity buff comes in it'll be even more of a no brainer they'd have to have some fucking fed immobile tanks to want to justify rageblade 4 hit rageblade was good because it let you dominate lane phase but the new one is too expensive for lane and too prohibitive for teamfights. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 18 2016 05:44 Bladeorade wrote: Rock champ looks pretty strong and cool I think the word you're looking for is solid | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23460 Posts
PBE notes: stinger-->trinity and wits end 300g less expensive THERES A SPY IN OUR MIDST BOYS what about how fucking garbage udyr is after nerfing every single item that he was building as well as most of his abilities twice? I've been trying every possible iteration of skill pathing Q max standard R max 3 point R Q max Q+R max 3 point Q R max 3 point Q R max E before W 1 point Q R max W>E 1 point Q R max E>W its ALL garbage like you need good early clear and farming because if you hit mid/late game without being fed you are a melee champ with no gap closers, no burst damage and no ultimate so you just have to walk into the enemy team with your bear hands and try to get some damage done without dying in 2 seconds. but pheonix stance's early damage got gutted so hard and tiger can't clear the jungle to save its life I mean post 9 pheonix udyr needs like 100 AP to break even with old udyr lets just take a fucking deathcap off udyr boys never mind how broken 20% cdr 500 hp 70 MR spirit visage and a 2400ish gold 70 armour 20% cdr 125% sheen IBG 8% movement ludens unkillable ZZ'Rot with like 130-140 total resists and alacrity+swiftness giving him super zoom speed and devourer giving him like 150 extra magic damage a hit between the phantom hit and the on hit damage also the way tiger stance works is kinda dumb the way turtle is. Bear stance and pheonix stance have a strong activation (movement/AoE burn+ turtle and tiger have really strong activation (70% as+400~dmg physical dot) ( this is because of legacy changes, like top lane udyr being stupid, but they should probably put some power on the persistent effects (15% AD a hit is a fucking joke on a tank champ) because currently you only want to stay in them for the bare minimum amount of time which is frankly bad design more than bad balance. There's also a change giving him more movement speed in bear stance for less duration, should probably be taken away, max rank bear stance is what gives him the super toxic split pushing, should take power out of that and put it all back in W and R because his straight up dueling wasn't exactly what was making him annoying as fuck. (zooming past everyone with over tuned tank/movement items and un-catchable split pushing) At the very minimum put his rank 1 pheonix back to 40. 25 damage every 3 hits is really bad and not in proportion to a normal strong clearing jungler. (He can clear much better later than early which is kinda dumb) Like you're supposed to get any early ganking done? Rank 1 pheonix is doing 50 aoe damage+50 magic damage total bonus if you get 5 seconds of contact and 4 hits off an enemy you're going to gank, so basically you bust your ass to get more damage than a stack of his corrupting potion. It's more reasonable level 2 but it's stupidly low at rank 1 for no good reason. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
In season 6 I have 98 wins 68 losses on Udyr. He's pretty bad right now. I think Tiger is the best, but he farms pretty slow considering he is fucking Udyr. I think you pretty much need to get early kills on Qmax Tiger to be useful. You basically have to snowball and build 2 offensive items and be fed enough that you can get away with it and hard carry before you become a useless lategame melee champ with no gap closers that had to build 2 offensive items. Pheonix is only useful for waveclearing after getting kills. Udyrs win condition is the same as Lee Sin/Nidalee/Elises, but he doesn't have their kit. Like at all. I tried for like 10 games last patch... he is just not worth it right now. | ||
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