EPTOn April 07 2016 23:05 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Holy cow, Dash proposed on an item. That's a big enough change WITHOUT all the rest of it.
Holy cow, Dash proposed on an item. That's a big enough change WITHOUT all the rest of it.
What?
[Patch 6.7] Almost Outrageous General Discussion - Page 7
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
What? | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On April 07 2016 12:43 GrandInquisitor wrote: Isn't that premised on a 5 man playing a less than 5 man, as you wrote? Obviously you will have inflated MMR if you queue as 5man and get to play against non-5-mans. Its premised on any 5 man playing less than a 5 man at a rate that does not approach zero. Your individual 5 man does not have to play against a non-5 because the 5's you will be playing will have their MMR inflated due to playing non-5's. Basically the MMR difference converges based on the overall rate at which 5's play non-5's and 4's play non-4's and so on and so forth. The only question is whether League skill is restricted only to working with teammates you don't know, or whether it also incorporates working with teammates you do know. That seems like too fine a distinction to justify the complaint that dynamic queue no longer accurately represents your skill. Sure, but tell that to the people who play solo and had their epeen reduced because of the changes.  I mean i don't like it all that much and i barely even care about my MMR (partially because even if i get placed a full division below where i ought to be at the end of the season i am still "in the money" on rewards) 300 range, 1200 speed, does damage on the location you arrive, 30 second CD :psyduck: | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 07 2016 23:00 VayneAuthority wrote: You don't need to work with your team to succeed in solo q. You can get to diamond 1-ish just pushing top as nasus all game and drawing 1v2s/1v3s and doing nothing else. You just need the mechanics to outlane people. After that it only depends on your slot order, as people at that elo will play more counterpicks/meta picks then champs they are good at. So late pick = keep climbing, early pick = get countered and pray your team is ok watch this for why dynamic Q is bad. I'm a little confused by why you think that shows that dynamic queue IS bad, as opposed to saying that it COULD be bad. It presents evidence of how a statistic can be abused, which I'm always in favor of, but it doesn't suggest anything to show that a) this is the case, or b) why his hypothetical non-uniform distribution is more or less likely to be true than a uniform distribution. Basically, my takeaway from that is this: Riot claims 5 vs non-5 occurs 4% of the time. This could be because it occurs 4% of the time uniformly across rank, or it occurs 0.4% of the time at Gold and below and 40% of the time at Plat and above. To me, that is equivalent to, if I told you that toxicity occurred in 5% of all games, you could say, aha, that's possible proof that every single match played on Tuesday between Bronze summoners who pick Fizz is toxic and no other game is toxic. That's possible, but that's no particular reason to believe that picking Fizz on Tuesday is is bad. His response is that there are more summoners at lower levels so it's less likely that they'll be matched premade 5 vs solo queuers. Even if you accept this (query whether Bronzes are 5manning at the same rate as Diamonds), it's still not evidence that 0.4% of Gold- games are "bad" and 40% of Plat+ games are "bad". We honestly have no idea what the correct percentages are. Maybe it's 0.0000001% of Silver- games and 100% of Gold+ games. Maybe it's 3.5% of Plat- games and 5% of Dia+ games. Until Sufficiency descends from Mount Stats to tell us, we're just all sitting around with our thumbs up our asses guessing. On April 07 2016 23:37 Goumindong wrote: Its premised on any 5 man playing less than a 5 man at a rate that does not approach zero. Your individual 5 man does not have to play against a non-5 because the 5's you will be playing will have their MMR inflated due to playing non-5's. Basically the MMR difference converges based on the overall rate at which 5's play non-5's and 4's play non-4's and so on and so forth. Sure. But MMR inflation due to the indeterminately small fraction of 5's not playing vs 5's is whatever, man. It ultimately has less of an effect on MMR than an AFK or someone getting their champ pool randomly banned out. It's just noise that will get lost in the signal. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On April 07 2016 23:37 Goumindong wrote: Its premised on any 5 man playing less than a 5 man at a rate that does not approach zero. Your individual 5 man does not have to play against a non-5 because the 5's you will be playing will have their MMR inflated due to playing non-5's. Basically the MMR difference converges based on the overall rate at which 5's play non-5's and 4's play non-4's and so on and so forth. Sure, but tell that to the people who play solo and had their epeen reduced because of the changes. I mean i don't like it all that much and i barely even care about my MMR (partially because even if i get placed a full division below where i ought to be at the end of the season i am still "in the money" on rewards) 300 range, 1200 speed, does damage on the location you arrive, 30 second CD :psyduck: Oh, since dash was capitalized I thought he was talking about the caster asking somebody to marry him. That makes so much more sense. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On April 07 2016 23:52 GrandInquisitor wrote: I'm a little confused by why you think that shows that dynamic queue IS bad, as opposed to saying that it COULD be bad. It presents evidence of how a statistic can be abused, which I'm always in favor of, but it doesn't suggest anything to show that a) this is the case, or b) why his hypothetical non-uniform distribution is more or less likely to be true than a uniform distribution. Basically, my takeaway from that is this: Riot claims 5 vs non-5 occurs 4% of the time. This could be because it occurs 4% of the time uniformly across rank, or it occurs 0.4% of the time at Gold and below and 40% of the time at Plat and above. To me, that is equivalent to, if I told you that toxicity occurred in 5% of all games, you could say, aha, that's possible proof that every single match played on Tuesday between Bronze summoners who pick Fizz is toxic and no other game is toxic. That's possible, but that's no particular reason to believe that picking Fizz on Tuesday is is bad. His response is that there are more summoners at lower levels so it's less likely that they'll be matched premade 5 vs solo queuers. Even if you accept this (query whether Bronzes are 5manning at the same rate as Diamonds), it's still not evidence that 0.4% of Gold- games are "bad" and 40% of Plat+ games are "bad". We honestly have no idea what the correct percentages are. Maybe it's 0.0000001% of Silver- games and 100% of Gold+ games. Maybe it's 3.5% of Plat- games and 5% of Dia+ games. Until Sufficiency descends from Mount Stats to tell us, we're just all sitting around with our thumbs up our asses guessing. Sure. But MMR inflation due to the indeterminately small fraction of 5's not playing vs 5's is whatever, man. It ultimately has less of an effect on MMR than an AFK or someone getting their champ pool randomly banned out. It's just noise that will get lost in the signal. Please go away troll. It's bad enough you put my favorite champ to shame with your garbo posts. User was warned for this post | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
Well that's an amazing way to read that sentence. I wish that actually HAD happened. But still, a dash on an item? What are these, Yordle Stompers (or whatever those were called)? | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On April 08 2016 00:55 kongoline wrote: tired of constant huge changes and reworks, gonna take them another 6months to balance items and champions around(why wasnt that done during preseason?) just enough time so they can throw at us another bullshit patch with ridiculous changes 2weeks before worlds ... The constant jungle item rework is annoying, I liked the Spirit items the most. I wonder what devourer will end up as this time : p I don't get why they have moved on to making massive patches during the season now though. I guess the 2 week patch cycle wasn't enough? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 08 2016 00:35 AsmodeusXI wrote: Well that's an amazing way to read that sentence. I wish that actually HAD happened. But still, a dash on an item? What are these, Yordle Stompers (or whatever those were called)? I joked about them implementing BKB and Abyssal just to cause an outcry but dam a dash on an item. That's pretty cool. Pity community is a bunch of whiny bitches. Having items that are more than just stat sticks sounds interesting. Even if this attempt fails I'm glad to see them trying new stuff. There was a period of time where they felt very rigid in how they designed itemization. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
Using the item should disable self-movement effects for X seconds after or something. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 08 2016 01:51 Zess wrote: They geared the item and stats to the tankier mid-range mages like Swain or Karthus+deadKarthus but you can also just get it on Lissandra and have screens of gapclosing ability instead. Using the item should disable self-movement effects for X seconds after or something. Nah man this is how you balance it. Get rid of it having good stats geared towards anything, just make it a mismatch of random stuff. Then you change the dash ability into an ability that moves your or a target ally forward X units in the direction they facing. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On April 08 2016 01:55 Numy wrote: Nah man this is how you balance it. Get rid of it having good stats geared towards anything, just make it a mismatch of random stuff. Then you change the dash ability into an ability that moves your or a target ally forward X units in the direction they facing. Direction you are facing is a bit wonky without turn rate. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 08 2016 01:56 Ansibled wrote: Direction you are facing is a bit wonky without turn rate. I was thinking of making it work like viktors laser instead to get around that but then thought maybe that's too powerful since it can go any direction without much effort. That also breaks the joke :< | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On April 08 2016 01:56 Ansibled wrote: Direction you are facing is a bit wonky without turn rate. It can' be the worst when it comes to abilities. I'm looking at you, Broken Wings. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
Literally can't tell cuz I've won alot of arams and not a single fragment. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
too bad old Morde doesn't exist to use this item, another champion I always said would be great if force staff was in the game. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On April 08 2016 01:04 Ansibled wrote: The constant jungle item rework is annoying, I liked the Spirit items the most. I wonder what devourer will end up as this time : p I don't get why they have moved on to making massive patches during the season now though. I guess the 2 week patch cycle wasn't enough? Because csgo is hitting a lot bigger numbers on twitch. Which is good honestly. Don't wanna just be a passive bitch and not do anything like sc2 and just die. | ||
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